How good is staff on Guardian (and other assorted weapon questions)?

[Dace.8173]

So the RNG gods were kind and gifted me a box for an ascended weapon with valkyrie stats. I've been debating what weapon I should. Since my two mans (Eng and Rev) already have 4 ascended weapons I figure my Guardian could keep it. But I'm unsure what would be a good choice. I normally play Dragonhunter but I'll eventually quest for the DH longbow. I have the Firebrand's axe already. I have an ascended greatsword for him. So I thought about maybe the staff since I've been using it a lot lately on my FB build in WvW for the swiftness. But overall how useful is the staff? I would typically use it for FB builds (running a FB burn build in WvW right now). I had leaned towards the staff because I could always toss on my Ele or Rev but I would primarily be using it on my Guardian, likely the FB builds. If the staff isn't a useful choice what would be a good choice?

[otto.5684]

It depends. I do not WvW so I leave that out, but you check meta battle. In PvE support you could build around FB for quickness and might support plus heals. You would use staff (and a main hand weapon plus torch). Open world, not really. Staff damage is pathetic.

[kasoki.5180]

In PvE staff is for healer/support Firebrand. Unless you are planning to play that I would recommend skipping this. If you are planning to play healer/support firebrand than staff is a must.

[Obtena.7952]

I think the most significant value the Staff gives now is that you can go full glass ... but use the staff in a pinch where you need its ranged or heal capabilities. It's actually implemented in the way that I think weapons should have always worked in this game; you swap for needed capability. Staff can do that without compromising a high dps build.

[otto.5684]

@Obtena.7952 said:I think the most significant value the Staff gives now is that you can go full glass ... but use the staff in a pinch where you need its ranged or heal capabilities. It's actually implemented in the way that I think weapons should have always worked in this game; you swap for needed capability. Staff can do that without compromising a high dps build.

This is obsolotely incorrect. You should never ever use staff in PvE if you are playing a dps build. Staff not only compromises damage output, it utterly destroys it. If you need range you either use scepter. Even for sustainability any main hand with shield or focus provide much better sustainability.

[Obtena.7952]

@otto.5684 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think the most significant value the Staff gives now is that you can go full glass ... but use the staff in a pinch where you need its ranged or heal capabilities. It's actually implemented in the way that I think weapons should have always worked in this game; you swap for needed capability. Staff can do that without compromising a high dps build.

This is obsolotely incorrect. You should never ever use staff in PvE if you are playing a dps build. Staff not only compromises damage output, it utterly destroys it. If you need range you either use scepter. Even for sustainability any main hand with shield or focus provide much better sustainability.

Weapon swapping is enabling access to skills weapons have. Staff can be equipped if the heals are desired because you know ... not everyone plays because of 'the best' way to do things. I'm not suggesting camping it, OP didn't ask if staff was meta and I'm not saying it is. I'm simply saying that if you want those skills in a backup situation in an offensively heavy build, staff gives them to you. Maybe you should stop pushing meta in these threads and as replies to my posts. You know what you're going to get as a response.

[Dace.8173]

Metabattle has builds that feature the staff which was why I was curious. I use DH for Powerbuilds so I was thinking of using Firebrand for condi builds. The one I run right now is a burn build. That one ran with scepter/torch and staff but I switched scepter to axe because scepter is too slow for my taste. I also thought that staff aplied roughly the same damage. But I was mostly using it for long range chases and for swiftness since Guardian moves so slow to begin with. If I want an ascended torch I can pull them from my Warrior or Necro which I don't play nearly as often. I had considered scepter but it doesn't jive with me yet (though it may take time, there are a number of weapons I didn't initially like that I came around too). Which left me with staff. But as I said, I'm not sure if it's a good weapon and if it has more general appeal over other possibilities for Guardian.

[otto.5684]

@Dace.8173 said:Metabattle has builds that feature the staff which was why I was curious. I use DH for Powerbuilds so I was thinking of using Firebrand for condi builds. The one I run right now is a burn build. That one ran with scepter/torch and staff but I switched scepter to axe because scepter is too slow for my taste. I also thought that staff aplied roughly the same damage. But I was mostly using it for long range chases and for swiftness since Guardian moves so slow to begin with. If I want an ascended torch I can pull them from my Warrior or Necro which I don't play nearly as often. I had considered scepter but it doesn't jive with me yet (though it may take time, there are a number of weapons I didn't initially like that I came around too). Which left me with staff. But as I said, I'm not sure if it's a good weapon and if it has more general appeal over other possibilities for Guardian.

If you think scepter is slow then you surely do not want to use staff. Also, there is no synergy between staff and dps condi FB. If you elect to use staff as a damage weapon, power dps is your best option.

I also prefer sword over scepter. You can use axe torch and sword torch. I find that works best in open world unless you must stay at range.

[Rhyse.8179]

Staff is best in a pure healing build that buffs symbols and boon duration. It's viable as a ranged weapon in open-world PVE if you just really don't like scepter (guilty as charged), but that's only because open world is easy and everything is viable. It's a significant DPS loss compared to scepter so don't use it if you are trying to do real DPS at range.

[Loosmaster.8263]

I use staff in PvE all the time with DH Medi Heal build, Minstrel/Monk runes, GS or Sword/Shield swap. I'm not hung up on the Metas or max DPS and play like I want. Sometimes I like seeing green numbers spamming everywhere and sometimes I just stand there and /laugh at all the dead zerkers on the ground.

It all boils down to how you want to play. Solo or Group. Solo you can do whatever your heart desires, Group is whatever needed for the task at hand and having the gear/weaps on hand to accomplish it.

I personally don't care for FB due to having a new set of skills with the F skills. Unless you just like to spam.

Edit: I read your OP again and you're basically looking for WvW use? If so then mostly I see in Squads as a FB you run Staff/Hammer and stay front line. Otherwise I would run DH GS/LB for mid to backline. Again it's mostly up to situation you're running in.

[jpg.1783]

I just got back and was surprised to learn that Skill 1 & 2 were replaced. Before, staff could be used offensively given it's cone-based effect for Skill 1. Now the wind up mechanic is very terrible, in my humble opinion. I have mixed feelings with Skill 2. Before, the Bowling Bowl (the animation of which I think was used for the revised Skill 1) did tons of damage in a straight line every 3 - 4 seconds if you didn't pop the heal effect. The AOE of the revised skill is serviceable with healing as a default effect. I feel that in terms of utility the Staff was improved; it suffers damage-wise though with the changes.

[starlinvf.1358]

@otto.5684 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:Metabattle has builds that feature the staff which was why I was curious. I use DH for Powerbuilds so I was thinking of using Firebrand for condi builds. The one I run right now is a burn build. That one ran with scepter/torch and staff but I switched scepter to axe because scepter is too slow for my taste. I also thought that staff aplied roughly the same damage. But I was mostly using it for long range chases and for swiftness since Guardian moves so slow to begin with. If I want an ascended torch I can pull them from my Warrior or Necro which I don't play nearly as often. I had considered scepter but it doesn't jive with me yet (though it may take time, there are a number of weapons I didn't initially like that I came around too). Which left me with staff. But as I said, I'm not sure if it's a good weapon and if it has more general appeal over other possibilities for Guardian.

If you think scepter is slow then you surely do not want to use staff. Also, there is no synergy between staff and dps condi FB. If you elect to use staff as a damage weapon, power dps is your best option.

I also prefer sword over scepter. You can use axe torch and sword torch. I find that works best in open world unless you must stay at range.

This is where you thinking gets flawed. "Oh I'm in a situation where I'm dying, need healing and can't afford to do some optimal rotation. I know, I'll switch to another weapon that offers to no healing paired with another weapon that also doesn't offer healing." Or, you know..... use a staff for 10 seconds to drop 2 heals and 1200 range you can otherwise get with Dragon Hunter, and change back to my damage weapon. Maybe drop a ward while I'm at it, and laugh at the trash mob's inability to go around it.

And if you're raiding or fractals, you never have to move or heal anyway... so its pretty obvious hes not talking about that.

[otto.5684]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:Metabattle has builds that feature the staff which was why I was curious. I use DH for Powerbuilds so I was thinking of using Firebrand for condi builds. The one I run right now is a burn build. That one ran with scepter/torch and staff but I switched scepter to axe because scepter is too slow for my taste. I also thought that staff aplied roughly the same damage. But I was mostly using it for long range chases and for swiftness since Guardian moves so slow to begin with. If I want an ascended torch I can pull them from my Warrior or Necro which I don't play nearly as often. I had considered scepter but it doesn't jive with me yet (though it may take time, there are a number of weapons I didn't initially like that I came around too). Which left me with staff. But as I said, I'm not sure if it's a good weapon and if it has more general appeal over other possibilities for Guardian.

If you think scepter is slow then you surely do not want to use staff. Also, there is no synergy between staff and dps condi FB. If you elect to use staff as a damage weapon, power dps is your best option.

I also prefer sword over scepter. You can use axe torch and sword torch. I find that works best in open world unless you must stay at range.

This is where you thinking gets flawed. "Oh I'm in a situation where I'm dying, need healing and can't afford to do some optimal rotation. I know, I'll switch to another weapon that offers to no healing paired with another weapon that also doesn't offer healing." Or, you know..... use a staff for 10 seconds to drop 2 heals and 1200 range you can otherwise get with Dragon Hunter, and change back to my damage weapon. Maybe drop a ward while I'm at it, and laugh at the trash mob's inability to go around it.

And if you're raiding or fractals, you never have to move or heal anyway... so its pretty obvious hes not talking about that.

If I need sustainability in PvE I would use mace/shield. Why the hell would I use staff?! Staff is specifically bad as a solo heal weapon.

[Obtena.7952]

@otto.5684 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:Metabattle has builds that feature the staff which was why I was curious. I use DH for Powerbuilds so I was thinking of using Firebrand for condi builds. The one I run right now is a burn build. That one ran with scepter/torch and staff but I switched scepter to axe because scepter is too slow for my taste. I also thought that staff aplied roughly the same damage. But I was mostly using it for long range chases and for swiftness since Guardian moves so slow to begin with. If I want an ascended torch I can pull them from my Warrior or Necro which I don't play nearly as often. I had considered scepter but it doesn't jive with me yet (though it may take time, there are a number of weapons I didn't initially like that I came around too). Which left me with staff. But as I said, I'm not sure if it's a good weapon and if it has more general appeal over other possibilities for Guardian.

If you think scepter is slow then you surely do not want to use staff. Also, there is no synergy between staff and dps condi FB. If you elect to use staff as a damage weapon, power dps is your best option.

I also prefer sword over scepter. You can use axe torch and sword torch. I find that works best in open world unless you must stay at range.

This is where you thinking gets flawed. "Oh I'm in a situation where I'm dying, need healing and can't afford to do some optimal rotation. I know, I'll switch to another weapon that offers to no healing paired with another weapon that also doesn't offer healing." Or, you know..... use a staff for 10 seconds to drop 2 heals and 1200 range you can otherwise get with Dragon Hunter, and change back to my damage weapon. Maybe drop a ward while I'm at it, and laugh at the trash mob's inability to go around it.

And if you're raiding or fractals, you never have to move or heal anyway... so its pretty obvious hes not talking about that.

If I need sustainability in PvE I would use mace/shield. Why the hell would I use staff?! Staff is specifically bad as a solo heal weapon.

Staff is more of a swap, heal, swap back strategy; Mace/Shield is more of a sustained, constant heal rate. Like I said earlier, Staff has value for someone that wants to have that healing option in a highly offensive build.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:Metabattle has builds that feature the staff which was why I was curious. I use DH for Powerbuilds so I was thinking of using Firebrand for condi builds. The one I run right now is a burn build. That one ran with scepter/torch and staff but I switched scepter to axe because scepter is too slow for my taste. I also thought that staff aplied roughly the same damage. But I was mostly using it for long range chases and for swiftness since Guardian moves so slow to begin with. If I want an ascended torch I can pull them from my Warrior or Necro which I don't play nearly as often. I had considered scepter but it doesn't jive with me yet (though it may take time, there are a number of weapons I didn't initially like that I came around too). Which left me with staff. But as I said, I'm not sure if it's a good weapon and if it has more general appeal over other possibilities for Guardian.

If you think scepter is slow then you surely do not want to use staff. Also, there is no synergy between staff and dps condi FB. If you elect to use staff as a damage weapon, power dps is your best option.

I also prefer sword over scepter. You can use axe torch and sword torch. I find that works best in open world unless you must stay at range.

This is where you thinking gets flawed. "Oh I'm in a situation where I'm dying, need healing and can't afford to do some optimal rotation. I know, I'll switch to another weapon that offers to no healing paired with another weapon that also doesn't offer healing." Or, you know..... use a staff for 10 seconds to drop 2 heals and 1200 range you can otherwise get with Dragon Hunter, and change back to my damage weapon. Maybe drop a ward while I'm at it, and laugh at the trash mob's inability to go around it.

And if you're raiding or fractals, you never have to move or heal anyway... so its pretty obvious hes not talking about that.

If I need sustainability in PvE I would use mace/shield. Why the hell would I use staff?! Staff is specifically bad as a solo heal weapon.

Staff is more of a swap, heal, swap back strategy; Mace/Shield is more of a sustained, constant heal rate. Like I said earlier, Staff has value for someone that wants to have that healing option in a highly offensive build.

This is absolutely awful adviceThe staff's burst healing is absolutely negligible. It's role as a healing weapon is to provide a small amounts of sustain over time, some off the auto, some off 2 and some off 3.I mean, have you actually used it Obtena?

[Obtena.7952]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:Metabattle has builds that feature the staff which was why I was curious. I use DH for Powerbuilds so I was thinking of using Firebrand for condi builds. The one I run right now is a burn build. That one ran with scepter/torch and staff but I switched scepter to axe because scepter is too slow for my taste. I also thought that staff aplied roughly the same damage. But I was mostly using it for long range chases and for swiftness since Guardian moves so slow to begin with. If I want an ascended torch I can pull them from my Warrior or Necro which I don't play nearly as often. I had considered scepter but it doesn't jive with me yet (though it may take time, there are a number of weapons I didn't initially like that I came around too). Which left me with staff. But as I said, I'm not sure if it's a good weapon and if it has more general appeal over other possibilities for Guardian.

If you think scepter is slow then you surely do not want to use staff. Also, there is no synergy between staff and dps condi FB. If you elect to use staff as a damage weapon, power dps is your best option.

I also prefer sword over scepter. You can use axe torch and sword torch. I find that works best in open world unless you must stay at range.

This is where you thinking gets flawed. "Oh I'm in a situation where I'm dying, need healing and can't afford to do some optimal rotation. I know, I'll switch to another weapon that offers to no healing paired with another weapon that also doesn't offer healing." Or, you know..... use a staff for 10 seconds to drop 2 heals and 1200 range you can otherwise get with Dragon Hunter, and change back to my damage weapon. Maybe drop a ward while I'm at it, and laugh at the trash mob's inability to go around it.

And if you're raiding or fractals, you never have to move or heal anyway... so its pretty obvious hes not talking about that.

If I need sustainability in PvE I would use mace/shield. Why the hell would I use staff?! Staff is specifically bad as a solo heal weapon.

Staff is more of a swap, heal, swap back strategy; Mace/Shield is more of a sustained, constant heal rate. Like I said earlier, Staff has value for someone that wants to have that healing option in a highly offensive build.

This is absolutely awful adviceThe staff's burst healing is absolutely negligible. It's role as a healing weapon is to provide a small amounts of sustain over time, some off the auto, some off 2 and some off 3.I mean, have you actually used it Obtena?

I guess that depends how you regard what negligible is; notice I didn't claim the amount it heals for is some amazing amount. Staff simply gives you heals without restrictions; you press the button, you get healed. If that's what you are looking for, it gives it to you. If you think it's negligible, then we can agree that's a subjective assessment. Consequently, I don't find the healing you get form staff too much different than what you get from Mace/Shield, so for me, the claim it's 'negligible' is neither here nor their.

I won't debate Mace/Sheild isn't a nice build for sustained healing and I prefer it, but that doesn't make me conclude that staff has no value to someone that doesn't want to play that way.

And yes, when I use Staff ... it's exactly as I describe it here, because I feel in PVE, that's the only way it's useful. Again, it seems to me you aren't paying attention to the question the OP has asked here. I'm not giving advice on what the best option is to use; that simply depends on how someone chooses to play the game. I'm outlining how the staff brings value to someone, which is what the OP wanted to know.

I think the big problem here is that people are camping their meta mindset; Staff isn't good at anything in particular, so it can't be good. That's not how weapons are designed in this game, nor traits, skills, stat prefixes, etc ... get my drift?

[Zephyron.7081]

@Obtena.7952 said:I think the most significant value the Staff gives now is that you can go full glass ... but use the staff in a pinch where you need its ranged or heal capabilities. It's actually implemented in the way that I think weapons should have always worked in this game; you swap for needed capability. Staff can do that without compromising a high dps build.

This is exactly how I run my FB. I'm zerker all the way with GS and Staff. I always have a GS equipped. I chose other weapons based on what I'm doing and who I'm doing it with. Staff is great for open world, WvW, sPvP, and some fractal encounters. Scepter & Shield/Focus are great for high dmg with ranger with some defense. I don't use mace that much, but its great for a good solid bunker - even with a zerker build. Sword & Shield are bad ace for a quickness build. Sword is awesome for mobility. I just can't seem to get into the Axe. I wish I could, but I don't want a pull when I can have a teleport and the symbol on Axe 2 is for condi...i'm a power build.

[Fashion Mage.3712]

As a support or healing weapon, the mace isn't remotely as good as the staff is. Healing a tiny amount in a small area in melee range of an enemy just doesn't fly for supporting allies when they need it.

[Kam.4092]

For WvW staff is amazing. In PvP it is also great. In these two game modes it has many uses. In PvE it is kind of trash. It fell out of the support healing FB builds. The best build is now Mace/Shield, Sword/Shield. Staff has ok burst healing, but Guardian is unable to keep permanent Might. With Sword a Guardian can keep permanent Fury, which ends up being better than the lackluster Might stacks.

People talking bad about Mace are wrong. It's your strongest healing weapon, and is amazing in WvW, and PvE. In PvP it's great too. It's either Mace for better healing, or Sword for mobility. Mace allows you to do permanent Regen, and small burst heals with the auto attack. It also has blocks and Protection with it. It beats staff by a longshot in the support weapon role. I'd only ever use Staff on fights that have a lot of movement, or if Fury is covered in the group, and Might stacks are struggling to cap. Staff is also ok for blocking adds.

[Dace.8173]

What about the torch? Some folks in my guild were mentioning that torch wasn't good but that kinda feels counterintuitive.

[Kam.4092]

@Dace.8173 said:What about the torch? Some folks in my guild were mentioning that torch wasn't good but that kinda feels counterintuitive.

Torch is great for FB condition, but Focus is the power weapon offhand now. Both are great weapons for their specific builds.

[otto.5684]

@Dace.8173 said:What about the torch? Some folks in my guild were mentioning that torch wasn't good but that kinda feels counterintuitive.

It works for both power and condi builds. For power focus is a bit better. It is the bread and butter of condi builds.

[Dace.8173]

@otto.5684 said:

@Dace.8173 said:What about the torch? Some folks in my guild were mentioning that torch wasn't good but that kinda feels counterintuitive.

It works for both power and condi builds. For power focus is a bit better. It is the bread and butter of condi builds.

Well, I carry both right now. I go axe/torch and swap with scepter/focus for my FB condi build.