The state of Elementalists in PvP

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Balsa.3951 said:out of curiosity what are weavers good at ?

At weaving. But depending on build, encounter, and player skill, they can have some killing potential. But annoying condi builds who annoy power builds who annoy any ele build is kinda satisfying.

[Snellibee.2761]

Can't agree more with this thread, I've been playing Weaver for a good while and I think i'm getting good at it, but it feels extremely lackluster vs people that actually know what to do. We have no damage, no damage mitigation and abrely any mobility. The worst part is that Weaver need to press 3 buttons to accomplish the same thing any other class can do in 1 button, we have to work our fingers off in a fight just to be mediocre while a spellbreaker or boonbeast for example could duel you with one hand. it's an absolute joke in what state Ele is. People that cry about "all the evades" have never played ele themselves, it takes crazey skill to plan and change attunements properly to be able to evade as much damage as possible, but even then classes with high power dmg will damage you more than you can heal or evade, resulting in death.

[mrauls.6519]

No idea how they've left ele in its current state for so many seasons

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@"mrauls.6519" said:No idea how they've left ele in its current state for so many seasons

devs dont play ele and don't understand the class itself where simple damage buffs to dual attacks won't bring ele into the picture

[Dante.1763]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:No idea how they've left ele in its current state for so many seasons

devs dont play ele and don't understand the class itself where simple damage buffs to dual attacks won't bring ele into the picture

This is pretty true, and their recent thread asking for feedback also feels totally useless and empty too, im surprised this thread has managed to last for two days and not be moved to the ele sub forum.

[BlackBeard.2873]

@"mrauls.6519" said:No idea how they've left ele in its current state for so many seasons

Because it isn't a mesmer, so why would the balance team care?

Ele is balanced differently from other classes. It is held to the standard that big effects need a long CD and big animation to make it obvious. Defenses are few and far between, so you need to be judicious with their use. Skills are slow on ele so that your opponent can react to them.

[Arkantos.7460]

maybe nerf revenant to fix ele

[apharma.3741]

@BlackBeard.2873 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:No idea how they've left ele in its current state for so many seasons

Because it isn't a mesmer, so why would the balance team care?

Ele is balanced differently from other classes. It is held to the standard that big effects need a long CD and big animation to make it obvious. Defenses are few and far between, so you need to be judicious with their use. Skills are slow on ele so that your opponent can react to them.

Maybe the devs still have PTSD from the DD cele days....

[Elemain.5461]

I agree that ele may be at a disadvantage in specs related to core or tempest. However, weaver is still a strong elite spec that is able to compete the meta today. Although it does take a lot of skill and it depends on what play style your trying to focus on. For example, a condi bruiser weaver (sage amulet) build is able to deal strong passive condi damage and sustain with constant barrier/healing along with traits such as stone of heart. Being so, I believe that ele doesn't have a lot of viability or can seem underwhelming if they don't somewhat focus on being defensive.

[lLobo.7960]

Ele needs a whole trait review to be viable.

Some highlights:

• More stats on attunements as ele has a stat deficiency and their weapon skills do not have better coefficients, then give back the arcane trait that attunment bonuses lingered for 5 secs after leaving an attunement. This would go particularly well with weaver;
• Move aurashare to tempest line, so you can share auras without water line and be offensive buffer if you so desire;
• Air needs to provide quickness when you grant superspeed, then provide superspeed on static auras, on top of current swiftness and fury;
• Fire needs to provide might to auras and make fire auras pulse resistance. Then, as an option to cleanse conditions with water you can try to resist them with fire (but be vulnerable to corrupt/strip);
• Earth needs to provide stability to auras, on top of current protection. Move improved protection to earth, make traits that stability remove/immune to movement impairing conditions and protection reducing condi dmg;
• Water needs to provide regen and vigor to auras (move trait from tempest);
• Change some arcane, tempest and weaver traits to provide benefits more based on attunments (bountiful power, weaver prowess, elements of rage, harmonious conduit, etc)

[sephiroth.4217]

@Stallic.2397 said:

And im not disagreeing with that as I said that the ele has to work thier butts off while the engie presses a button or 2... I also said you gotta play cards right too lol

I would love some tempest buffs but its not as useless as most claim it to be.

I'll agree with you there. A lot of these meta builds that people complain about are actually beatable if you play Tempest. No one knows that, or even cares, because no one plays Tempest.The only one that hard counters Tempest quite laughably is Mirage- but that's a whole other discussion.

If any buffs- Tempest needs better aura's and stability without traits added.

Each balance has been bringing Tempest into a better spot... I wouldn't say that about condi mirage, with a Fire Water set up you can shrug off those condi and with some aoe you can dispense the clones...

On another set up it can be a real struggle though...

My biggest hard counter is Unstoppable Union ive personally found... Ive gained too reliant on magnetic Auras to deal with projectiles.

@MyPuppy.8970 said:Would stab on aura on earth traitline be OP?

With the protection trait would be nice, probably couldnt last more than a second though for balance reasons but would incite me into using earth a bit more.

[BlackBeard.2873]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

And im not disagreeing with that as I said that the ele has to work thier butts off while the engie presses a button or 2... I also said you gotta play cards right too lol

I would love some tempest buffs but its not as useless as most claim it to be.

I'll agree with you there. A lot of these meta builds that people complain about are actually beatable if you play Tempest. No one knows that, or even cares, because no one plays Tempest.The only one that hard counters Tempest quite laughably is Mirage- but that's a whole other discussion.

If any buffs- Tempest needs better aura's and stability without traits added.

Each balance has been bringing Tempest into a better spot... I wouldn't say that about condi mirage, with a Fire Water set up you can shrug off those condi and with some aoe you can dispense the clones...

On another set up it can be a real struggle though...

My biggest hard counter is Unstoppable Union ive personally found... Ive gained too reliant on magnetic Auras to deal with projectiles.

@MyPuppy.8970 said:Would stab on aura on earth traitline be OP?

With the protection trait would be nice, probably couldnt last more than a second though for balance reasons but would incite me into using earth a bit more.

Cool, so you can spec to be excellent vs. condi and instadie vs. power dps...or you can spec to be decent against both but not really good vs. either (earth/water/tempest)...or you could just play firebrand and be 10x more effective than any flavor of tempest.

The problem is, like I said, that eles obey the old style of balance - they have to make choices where to be good, and have clear weaknesses. Other specs can be specced to be good vs. everything. Who would you rather have on your team - the handicapped guy who is worse in every way and severely lacking in some, or the guy who is good at just about everything?

[sephiroth.4217]

@BlackBeard.2873 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

And im not disagreeing with that as I said that the ele has to work thier butts off while the engie presses a button or 2... I also said you gotta play cards right too lol

I would love some tempest buffs but its not as useless as most claim it to be.

I'll agree with you there. A lot of these meta builds that people complain about are actually beatable if you play Tempest. No one knows that, or even cares, because no one plays Tempest.The only one that hard counters Tempest quite laughably is Mirage- but that's a whole other discussion.

If any buffs- Tempest needs better aura's and stability without traits added.

Each balance has been bringing Tempest into a better spot... I wouldn't say that about condi mirage, with a Fire Water set up you can shrug off those condi and with some aoe you can dispense the clones...

On another set up it can be a real struggle though...

My biggest hard counter is Unstoppable Union ive personally found... Ive gained too reliant on magnetic Auras to deal with projectiles.

@MyPuppy.8970 said:Would stab on aura on earth traitline be OP?

With the protection trait would be nice, probably couldnt last more than a second though for balance reasons but would incite me into using earth a bit more.

Cool, so you can spec to be excellent vs. condi and instadie vs. power dps...or you can spec to be decent against both but not really good vs. either (earth/water/tempest)...or you could just play firebrand and be 10x more effective than any flavor of tempest.

The problem is, like I said, that eles obey the old style of balance - they have to make choices where to be good, and have clear weaknesses. Other specs can be specced to be good vs. everything. Who would you rather have on your team - the handicapped guy who is worse in every way and severely lacking in some, or the guy who is good at just about everything?

Not gunna argue with that, people who play Tempest at an average or above skill level will understand why and those who don't won't.

[Fortus.6175]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@BlackBeard.2873 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

And im not disagreeing with that as I said that the ele has to work thier butts off while the engie presses a button or 2... I also said you gotta play cards right too lol

I would love some tempest buffs but its not as useless as most claim it to be.

I'll agree with you there. A lot of these meta builds that people complain about are actually beatable if you play Tempest. No one knows that, or even cares, because no one plays Tempest.The only one that hard counters Tempest quite laughably is Mirage- but that's a whole other discussion.

If any buffs- Tempest needs better aura's and stability without traits added.

Each balance has been bringing Tempest into a better spot... I wouldn't say that about condi mirage, with a Fire Water set up you can shrug off those condi and with some aoe you can dispense the clones...

On another set up it can be a real struggle though...

My biggest hard counter is Unstoppable Union ive personally found... Ive gained too reliant on magnetic Auras to deal with projectiles.

@"MyPuppy.8970" said:Would stab on aura on earth traitline be OP?

With the protection trait would be nice, probably couldnt last more than a second though for balance reasons but would incite me into using earth a bit more.

Cool, so you can spec to be excellent vs. condi and instadie vs. power dps...or you can spec to be decent against both but not really good vs. either (earth/water/tempest)...or you could just play firebrand and be 10x more effective than any flavor of tempest.

The problem is, like I said, that eles obey the old style of balance - they have to make choices where to be good, and have clear weaknesses. Other specs can be specced to be good vs. everything. Who would you rather have on your team - the handicapped guy who is worse in every way and severely lacking in some, or the guy who is good at just about everything?

Not gunna argue with that, people who play Tempest at an average or above skill level will understand why and those who don't won't.

Sephiro, just a minor advice, since I see you do it very often: good arguments explain things, rather than give a "if you have certain skill level X does/doesnt matter" arguments, whether it is true or not, it invalidates any further discussion because one party thinks the other is not "skilled" enough to "understand" whats going on, which is not very conducive to discussion. It even sounds, almost condescending, which I imagine is probably not your intention [i hope]. If you are at that "superior skill level", then explain to others the reasoning, rather than dismiss them.

[Arheundel.6451]

@apharma.3741 said:

@BlackBeard.2873 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:No idea how they've left ele in its current state for so many seasons

Because it isn't a mesmer, so why would the balance team care?

Ele is balanced differently from other classes. It is held to the standard that big effects need a long CD and big animation to make it obvious. Defenses are few and far between, so you need to be judicious with their use. Skills are slow on ele so that your opponent can react to them.

Maybe the devs still have PTSD from the DD cele days....

Is that way they made scrapper-chronomancer-berseker...followed by holosmith-mirage and spellbreaker?It seems the law "thou shall not have it all" only applies to a couple classes.....

[sephiroth.4217]

@Fortus.6175 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@BlackBeard.2873 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

And im not disagreeing with that as I said that the ele has to work thier butts off while the engie presses a button or 2... I also said you gotta play cards right too lol

I would love some tempest buffs but its not as useless as most claim it to be.

I'll agree with you there. A lot of these meta builds that people complain about are actually beatable if you play Tempest. No one knows that, or even cares, because no one plays Tempest.The only one that hard counters Tempest quite laughably is Mirage- but that's a whole other discussion.

If any buffs- Tempest needs better aura's and stability without traits added.

Each balance has been bringing Tempest into a better spot... I wouldn't say that about condi mirage, with a Fire Water set up you can shrug off those condi and with some aoe you can dispense the clones...

On another set up it can be a real struggle though...

My biggest hard counter is Unstoppable Union ive personally found... Ive gained too reliant on magnetic Auras to deal with projectiles.

@"MyPuppy.8970" said:Would stab on aura on earth traitline be OP?

With the protection trait would be nice, probably couldnt last more than a second though for balance reasons but would incite me into using earth a bit more.

Cool, so you can spec to be excellent vs. condi and instadie vs. power dps...or you can spec to be decent against both but not really good vs. either (earth/water/tempest)...or you could just play firebrand and be 10x more effective than any flavor of tempest.

The problem is, like I said, that eles obey the old style of balance - they have to make choices where to be good, and have clear weaknesses. Other specs can be specced to be good vs. everything. Who would you rather have on your team - the handicapped guy who is worse in every way and severely lacking in some, or the guy who is good at just about everything?

Not gunna argue with that, people who play Tempest at an average or above skill level will understand why and those who don't won't.

Sephiro, just a minor advice, since I see you do it very often: good arguments

explain

things, rather than give a "if you have certain skill level X does/doesnt matter" arguments, whether it is true or not, it invalidates any further discussion because one party thinks the other is not "skilled" enough to "understand" whats going on, which is not very conducive to discussion. It even sounds, almost condescending, which I imagine is probably not your intention

[i hope]

. If you are at that "superior skill level", then explain to others the reasoning, rather than dismiss them.

Its not about superior skill level.. I thought it might have been rude of me to point out that he makes assumptions that are wrong then bases facts off them.Also by pointing out that Elementalists have more than enough resources to deal with conditions that it wouldn't automatically mean they "instadie" to power specs... just another silly assumption and lack of knowledge towards the class, you could take any number of skills and traits without sacrificing your build for adequate removals.

Then he proceeds to ask me if I want a carried player on my team or a player thats skilled enough to play elementalists at the same level.... Hows that question even meant to justify anything?

It wasnt about superior skills or anything, I just felt like that was typed by someone who either doesnt play the class or only plays a specific build they picked up somewhere and left very little room for anything intelligent to discuss..

I was trying to be polite, it had nothing to do with being condescending or superior skills.

[Fortus.6175]

I'm seeing so few eles nowadays..... today, 12 matches, total of 3 eles, on the opposite side, and you can take a bet on which side lost those games.

[Alatar.7364]

@Fortus.6175 said:I'm seeing so few eles nowadays..... today, 12 matches, total of 3 eles, on the opposite side, and you can take a bet on which side lost those games.

If you play Ele you usually see more Eles. Had a match with 4 yesterday.

[FyzE.3472]

Oh look! An Elementalist thread! Let's move it to ele forums and forget that it ever existed like with all the rest feedback/suggestion threads!

[Jeknar.6184]

Just buff shatterstone again...

[apharma.3741]

I'd rather see all the classes brought down than buffs to ele. You don't fix power creep with power creep.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Ele is on the underperforming side of a balanced class. Has trade offs, counters, choices that defines gameplay, sacrifices to make to be somewhat effective. Just let Karl balance other classes and we would be fine.

[Liza.2758]

tbh i actually feel a bit better seeing Weaver than seeing some necro these days. more than 50% of necro die in 3 sec while weaver i can count on them to be alive longer than that

[Mini Crinny.6190]

this thread has made it 6 days without being moved, Incredible

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:this thread has made it 6 days without being moved, Incredible

Is it a sign? Buff inc.