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The Real Definition of Broken

Lord Hizen.5918

By Lord Hizen.5918
in Player vs. Player

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tinyreborn.1938

tinyreborn.1938

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@Slapinator.4196 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:Nonsense. Dodge is a dodge , not distortionThis is taken from the wiki:

Gain Mirage Cloak instead of dodge rolling. Ambush skills become available for a short time whenever you gain Mirage Cloak. Gain access to Deception skills.
 Mirage Cloak (1s): Evade incoming attacks. Ambush Attack Window: 1½s

Gain distortion and destroy all your clones, gaining additional distortion for each one shattered.
 Distortion (1s): Evade all attacks. Number of Targets: 1 Radius: 240 Prevents Capture-Point ContributionRange: 1,200

Is that meant for me? Or for him ? I know more than enough about mirage cloak and distortion and its difference

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bq pd.2148

bq pd.2148

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@Slapinator.4196 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:Nonsense. Dodge is a dodge , not distortionThis is taken from the wiki:

Gain Mirage Cloak instead of dodge rolling. Ambush skills become available for a short time whenever you gain Mirage Cloak. Gain access to Deception skills.
 Mirage Cloak (1s): Evade incoming attacks. Ambush Attack Window: 1½s

Gain distortion and destroy all your clones, gaining additional distortion for each one shattered.
 Distortion (1s): Evade all attacks. Number of Targets: 1 Radius: 240 Prevents Capture-Point ContributionRange: 1,200

the description is a little confusing.distortion applies invuln so condis wont tick and you cannot be CCed by lines/rings or shock aura. mirage cloak hower applies 'only' evade frames.

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@spartan.9421 said:

@jportell.2197 said: Boonbeast isnt broken because its not mesmer ? Astounding logic xDI never once said boonbeast wasn't broken. i said they can be killed and then listed things that mesmer has. What exactly makes boonbeast broken though?

Boonbeast's claim to fame in this meta is literally how unkillable they are, on top of their rock solid damage and fantastic sustain, resistance uptime (Well every single boon in the game as well) and condition cleanse, as well as Dolyak Stance completely denying the application of conditions. Boonbeast is unambiguously the single best 1v1er with the best capacity to 1v2 in the game. Plus it's a ranger so half the build is on auto pilot anyway.

If you remember druids bunker from December 2017-April 2018, they're basically that except they trade maybe 25% of their sustain potential for 4X as much damage. It's unambiguously the best build in the game right now. The last day of the previous season, every single plat 2 game I had had 3-4 Boonbeasts. And yes, it hard counters condi mirage. With similar skill levels there should be no reason condi mirage ever comes close to killing a boonbeast.

My point was that mirage has a load of ridiculous stuff, whereas boonbeast, the spec you were brought up, did not have these ridiculous stuff. Which again, is expected. All the classes are different. The point was that boonbeast did not have cheap mechanics. I was trying to explain just how insane mirage was with just their mirage cloak.Perhaps you misunderstood, or i did not explain well enough, but whatever.

Who needs clones and stealth when you're literally an unkillable monster that can laugh at any build that tries to pick a fight with you?

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Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

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@"spartan.9421" said:Just because something else is also broken doesn't mean you can avoid fixing/talking about the thing that is the most broke. Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

Louder for the people in the back who run away after using whataboutism.

There are some issues with other classes. Some of them overperform on normal rotation (Boonbeast and holosmith are the most glaring). We can deal with them in terms of balancing suggestions. but mirage remains part of that group that is overperforming.

Any class that, on normal rotation, boils down to "do what you want because the enemy cant touch you or make you shift your playstyle at all because your build is doing all the heavy lifting for your combat", regardless of how many buttons you need to press, needs to be toned down. Once that is resolved, we can talk numbers for the less glaring issues.

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whoknocks.4935

whoknocks.4935

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People don't understand that in a game with different classes and builds there will be always overtuned classes.You can nerf all the overtuned classes right now in pvp, holo, mirage, soulbeast, scourge, spellbreaker, let's just say those 5; you can be 100% sure if those 5 classes receive insane nerfs, other 5 build will be overtuned, maybe weaver, maybe tempest.There will be always top specs.You can't play in silver/gold league with a sub par build for example a trash burn guardian and complain how mirage is op.If you wanna play to achieve top elo, you must play a meta build, and if you play and master a meta build you will see how much easier will be to deal with the other meta builds.

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spartan.9421

spartan.9421

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"spartan.9421" said:Just because something else is also broken doesn't mean you can avoid fixing/talking about the thing that is the most broke. Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

Louder for the people in the back who run away after using whataboutism.

There are some issues with other classes. Some of them overperform on normal rotation (Boonbeast and holosmith are the most glaring). We can deal with them in terms of balancing suggestions. but mirage remains part of that group that is overperforming.

Any class that, on normal rotation, boils down to "do what you want because the enemy cant touch you or make you shift your playstyle at all because your build is doing all the heavy lifting for your combat", regardless of how many buttons you need to press, needs to be toned down. Once that is resolved, we can talk numbers for the less glaring issues.

Ah, i completely forgot about whataboutism!

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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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@Crinn.7864 said:

@spartan.9421 said:Just because something else is also broken doesn't mean you can avoid fixing/talking about the thing that is the most broke. Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

Louder for the people in the back who run away after using whataboutism.

What about teefs though?

buff thief

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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@spartan.9421 said:Just because something else is also broken doesn't mean you can avoid fixing/talking about the thing that is the most broke. Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

Louder for the people in the back who run away after using whataboutism.

What about teefs though?

buff thief

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Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

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@Crinn.7864 said:

@spartan.9421 said:Just because something else is also broken doesn't mean you can avoid fixing/talking about the thing that is the most broke. Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

Louder for the people in the back who run away after using whataboutism.

What about teefs though?

squints

I'll ignore that.

Tried speed runes on reaper? You can catch them now.They still have to react to you when you get in their face, as bad as that matchup is vs reaper. Other than that, I'm fine with shaving stealth time off dodge holding rifle or tweaking reveal from DJ.

@whoknocks.4935 said:People don't understand that in a game with different classes and builds there will be always overtuned classes.You can nerf all the overtuned classes right now in pvp, holo, mirage, soulbeast, scourge, spellbreaker, let's just say those 5; you can be 100% sure if those 5 classes receive insane nerfs, other 5 build will be overtuned, maybe weaver, maybe tempest.

Then don't give them all insane nerfs at once. Just balance the overperformers more frequently and see how the metrics change. Yes, some specs will be on top, but that doesnt justify them being busted either. you should be able to outplay them and/or make them think and react to your kit skillfully instead of them being able to just ignore burst because they have resources so plentiful they dont really have to care about what you're doing.

@mortrialus.3062 said:Dislike button

lel

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tinyreborn.1938

tinyreborn.1938

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:mesmers are toned down in spvp, but so is everyone else.

nerf mirage.

why you refuse to accept that cloak should be tied to EM, and 2- 3 secs of exhaust was enough. if you do this , literally nothing else is needed

Your assumptions arent needed ,just as your confidence being 100% right in bs you suggest

@apharma.3741 said:I believe Hizen is running rabid in the duel vs Cellofrag before anyone starts with the Trailblazer/Dire stats arguement. The only times he was possibly using TB is when in the duel spot as his health was 22.5k which is about where TB puts you on mesmer. Also remember the guild hall has a lot of skills in mesmers favour, jaunt is 20s instead of 30s, stab on shatter much longer, boons much longer, higher damage on some skills etc. One of the reasons I was so annoyed with the blurred frenzy change was that BF does twice as much damage in the guild hall but now it's 1s duration it's not feasible to cancel it in the interests of a fair duel.If thats true all skills for mirage unnerfed . Then if we would see Hizen using meta mesmer build against cello , we would behold Cello video how he farming Hizen all day long xD

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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:mesmers are toned down in spvp, but so is everyone else.

nerf mirage.

why you refuse to accept that cloak should be tied to EM, and 2- 3 secs of exhaust was enough. if you do this , literally nothing else is needed

Your assumptions arent needed ,just as your confidence being 100% right in bs you suggest

@apharma.3741 said:I believe Hizen is running rabid in the duel vs Cellofrag before anyone starts with the Trailblazer/Dire stats arguement. The only times he was possibly using TB is when in the duel spot as his health was 22.5k which is about where TB puts you on mesmer. Also remember the guild hall has a lot of skills in mesmers favour, jaunt is 20s instead of 30s, stab on shatter much longer, boons much longer, higher damage on some skills etc. One of the reasons I was so annoyed with the blurred frenzy change was that BF does twice as much damage in the guild hall but now it's 1s duration it's not feasible to cancel it in the interests of a fair duel.If thats true all skills for mirage unnerfed . Then if we would see Hizen using meta mesmer build against cello , we would behold Cello video how he farming Hizen all day long xD

Lol. Get real.

It is literally the only logical approach beside delete mesmer

You didn't get better and we didn't get worse, it is not a learn to play issue when the complaints persist over a year and the replies are approaching 100k cumulatively

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tinyreborn.1938

tinyreborn.1938

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:mesmers are toned down in spvp, but so is everyone else.

nerf mirage.

why you refuse to accept that cloak should be tied to EM, and 2- 3 secs of exhaust was enough. if you do this , literally nothing else is needed

Your assumptions arent needed ,just as your confidence being 100% right in bs you suggest

@apharma.3741 said:I believe Hizen is running rabid in the duel vs Cellofrag before anyone starts with the Trailblazer/Dire stats arguement. The only times he was possibly using TB is when in the duel spot as his health was 22.5k which is about where TB puts you on mesmer. Also remember the guild hall has a lot of skills in mesmers favour, jaunt is 20s instead of 30s, stab on shatter much longer, boons much longer, higher damage on some skills etc. One of the reasons I was so annoyed with the blurred frenzy change was that BF does twice as much damage in the guild hall but now it's 1s duration it's not feasible to cancel it in the interests of a fair duel.If thats true all skills for mirage unnerfed . Then if we would see Hizen using meta mesmer build against cello , we would behold Cello video how he farming Hizen all day long xD

Lol. Get real.

It is literally the only logical approach beside delete mesmerThats amazing ! How I didnt think about it ...Suggest some insane bs nerf to any class like photon forget gets +30seconds cd and say : GET REAL BRO, ITS ONLY LOGICAL APPOACH BESIDE DELETING YOUR CLASSxD
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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:mesmers are toned down in spvp, but so is everyone else.

nerf mirage.

why you refuse to accept that cloak should be tied to EM, and 2- 3 secs of exhaust was enough. if you do this , literally nothing else is needed

Your assumptions arent needed ,just as your confidence being 100% right in bs you suggest

@"apharma.3741" said:I believe Hizen is running rabid in the duel vs Cellofrag before anyone starts with the Trailblazer/Dire stats arguement. The only times he was possibly using TB is when in the duel spot as his health was 22.5k which is about where TB puts you on mesmer. Also remember the guild hall has a lot of skills in mesmers favour, jaunt is 20s instead of 30s, stab on shatter much longer, boons much longer, higher damage on some skills etc. One of the reasons I was so annoyed with the blurred frenzy change was that BF does twice as much damage in the guild hall but now it's 1s duration it's not feasible to cancel it in the interests of a fair duel.If thats true all skills for mirage unnerfed . Then if we would see Hizen using meta mesmer build against cello , we would behold Cello video how he farming Hizen all day long xD

Lol. Get real.

It is literally the only logical approach beside delete mesmerThats amazing ! How I didnt think about it ...Suggest some insane bs nerf to any class like photon forget gets +30seconds cd and say : GET REAL BRO, ITS ONLY LOGICAL APPOACH BESIDE DELETING YOUR CLASSxD

Why didn't you think of it, deleting mesmer would be faster.

The pool of "skilled" mesmers grew with the intro or mirage and it will shrink with a proper nerf.

I am gonna assume you are fighting for relevance at this point

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tinyreborn.1938

tinyreborn.1938

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Why didn't you think of it, deleting mesmer would be faster.Right, delete all classes entirely instead of balancing them and we would play... Renegades only . 5x5 renegades would be balanced

Cloak tied to EM is the right fix. Plus exhaustion 2 -3 secs. Literally nothing else is needed.

I mentioned before about your assumption and confidence being absolutely right while not even close.

The pool of "skilled" mesmers grew with the intro or mirage and it will shrink with a proper nerfAnd successfully shrunk after all those nerfs.Thats true literally for all pof specs. Honorable mentions to core guardians

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Alatar.7364

Alatar.7364

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@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Why didn't you think of it, deleting mesmer would be faster.Right, delete all classes entirely instead of balancing them and we would play... Renegades only . 5x5 renegades would be balanced

Cloak tied to EM is the right fix. Plus exhaustion 2 -3 secs. Literally nothing else is needed.

I mentioned before about your assumption and confidence being absolutely right while not even close.

The pool of "skilled" mesmers grew with the intro or mirage and it will shrink with a proper nerfAnd successfully shrunk after all those nerfs.Thats true literally for all pof specs. Honorable mentions to core guardians

Lala land. That's where you live. Nerfs...hahaha not one...why after the last patch 5 new 5k response threads about mesmer pop up?

The nerf is simple. Tie cloak to EM with exhaustion. Literally nothing else will be nearly as effective.

Mesmer should be accountable for cc while mirage tooOnly 2-3 people being able to play somewhat and in the end everyone who played mesmer had to roll thieves to be useful .

People swapped from Mesmer to ThiefPeople swapped from Mesmer to ThiefPeople swapped from Mesmer to ThiefPeople... WHAT!?

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