Deaths Judgment

[babazhook.6805]

Some month's ago the Shield bash and headbutt activation times for warrior builds was increased to .75 seconds. Many warriors claimed this all but made the skills useless as they could be too easily dodged . On my own warrior I saw the number of successful hits drop significantly and had to adapt as to how I used those skills.

.75 seconds IS a long time . If a person can dodge a shield bash or headbutt, they can certainly avoid a DJ shot. The arguement that one might be distracted by other actions ongoing is a non starter as I can make the same case for any attack. Generally if one of my thiefs caught by a headbutt, unless I immediately break stun I am downed. This hardly means the skill OP.

[babazhook.6805]

@Bish.8627 said:Things like the lazer don't show when you are around a busy fight

Yeah and when you are around a busy fight it hard to read tells from any number of skills. In a busy fight my headbutts on my warrior tend to connect where in a 1v1 they are easily dodged. It nothing to do with a skill being OP. BUSY fights can also see you getting 30+ stacks of conditions on in short order.

[Jeknar.6184]

@gmmg.9210 said:Look, some people just want to sit back and roam or play without having to be paranoid every 30 seconds about some random sniper one shotting them out of nowhere and without a marker. If Anet simply fixes this whole Deadeye leaching off targets in WvW problem, everyone will benefit.

So you are telling me that you don't worry about being one shot by a random power mesmer that don't even need to set up to do that?

[Yerlock.4678]

@Sobx.1758 said:*> @gmmg.9210 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@gmmg.9210 said:It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a

very

significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

Except it has a

VERY

significant telegraph, if you keep missing it somehow, you might want to see a doctor. For real.

This is one of the problems with introducing one-hit kill mechanics. It leads people to say things like "well if you can't do a simple dodge then git gud".

Look, some people just want to sit back and roam or play without having to be paranoid every 30 seconds about some random sniper one shotting them out of nowhere and without a marker. If Anet simply fixes this whole Deadeye leaching off targets in WvW problem, everyone will benefit.

So what you're saying here is that you want to roam and gank people.... but you don't want to be ganked? This is not how this works.

And it's not "git gut", that's just a fact. If something has a counterplay, but you refuse/fail to do it, it's not a faulty mechanic, it's you being, well, bad probably. And you writing "hurr durr people just write git gut" won't change that fact. If you don't want to "be paranoid" then:a) don't be paranoid and deal with a fact that when you get jumped while not being ready, you'll most probably die. Well, kitten happens.b) don't play a mode that's in a big part based on roaming and jumping people. Go play pve instead to "sit back and be safe".

But hey, I don't like blobs rolling over the smaller groups or single players, should anet start thinking about changing whole WvW, beacuse I don't like something that's undeniably a part of that gamemode?As I said (probably in another thread?), WvW is the closest GW2 has to open world pvp. Deal with all of the requirements/consequences or leave and do something you like.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's dumb to die out of nowhere without a marker from an opponent. Also no, GW2 is not the closest thing to open world PvP. It's WvW and there's a difference. Many games have open world pvp and are more pvp-centric. Games like DAOC did this fairly well.

But besides all of that, you're asking for a twitchy response from a player that takes less than half a second. And if you don't make that dodge, even with adequate toughness and HP, you die. If that is Anet's philosophy for pvp moving forward than I will play another game, but I suspect it isn't.

I'll say it again, there's no marker before hand. They can leach off of the environment to build up malice for the one-shot. And the player is being asked to time a dodge, without any marker, perfectly or they get killed no matter how much toughness and vitality they have. But it's being defended because I should accept that and "kitten happens".

Why are you defending players who do this? You realize they sit back and literally stack malice off a moose then stealth for an instakill when some random blob or group comes there way right? Should you know when to dodge then? Should the whole zerg be expected to dodge at the exact same time just to be safe? It's bad gameplay. And the sooner Anet makes DJ more reasonable the sooner everyone's gameplay in WvW will improve and these types of threads won't keep coming up.

[babazhook.6805]

@gmmg.9210 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:*> @gmmg.9210 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@gmmg.9210 said:It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a

very

significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

Except it has a

VERY

significant telegraph, if you keep missing it somehow, you might want to see a doctor. For real.

This is one of the problems with introducing one-hit kill mechanics. It leads people to say things like "well if you can't do a simple dodge then git gud".

Look, some people just want to sit back and roam or play without having to be paranoid every 30 seconds about some random sniper one shotting them out of nowhere and without a marker. If Anet simply fixes this whole Deadeye leaching off targets in WvW problem, everyone will benefit.

So what you're saying here is that you want to roam and gank people.... but you don't want to be ganked? This is not how this works.

And it's not "git gut", that's just a fact. If something has a counterplay, but you refuse/fail to do it, it's not a faulty mechanic, it's you being, well, bad probably. And you writing "hurr durr people just write git gut" won't change that fact. If you don't want to "be paranoid" then:a) don't be paranoid and deal with a fact that when you get jumped while not being ready, you'll most probably die. Well, kitten happens.b) don't play a mode that's in a big part based on roaming and jumping people. Go play pve instead to "sit back and be safe".

But hey, I don't like blobs rolling over the smaller groups or single players, should anet start thinking about changing whole WvW, beacuse I don't like something that's undeniably a part of that gamemode?As I said (probably in another thread?), WvW is the closest GW2 has to open world pvp. Deal with all of the requirements/consequences or leave and do something you like.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's kitten to die out of nowhere without a marker from an opponent. Also no, GW2 is not the closest thing to open world PvP. It's WvW and there's a difference. Many games have open world pvp and are more pvp-centric. Games like DAOC did this fairly well.

But besides all of that, you're asking for a twitchy response from a player that takes less than half a second. And if you don't make that dodge, even with adequate toughness and HP, you die. If that is Anet's philosophy for pvp moving forward than I will play another game, but I suspect it isn't.

I'll say it again, there's no marker before hand. They can leach off of the environment to build up malice for the one-shot. And the player is being asked to time a dodge, without any marker, perfectly or they get killed no matter how much toughness and vitality they have. But it's being defended because I should accept that and "kitten happens".

Why are you defending players who do this? You realize they sit back and literally stack malice off a moose then stealth for an instakill when some random blob or group comes there way right? Should you know when to dodge then? Should the whole zerg be expected to dodge at the exact same time just to be safe?

It's bad gameplay.

And the sooner Anet makes DJ more reasonable the sooner everyone's gameplay in WvW will improve and these types of threads won't keep coming up.

No they do NOT stack malice off a moose then lay in way for some random blob. Malice does not stay on a person. If you get full stacks (which takes around 12 seconds and a bit) the Thief has about another 10 seconds before that malice resets to zero. For your scenario to occur the thief has to be in an area with a moose that just happens to be one an enemy blob enters 10 seconds later. yeah it might happen but really? Your scenario is not realistic.

MALICE resets at 25 seconds and that not the end f it.

If you KILL that moose while you are trying to build malice stacks your malice resets to 0. In other words in order to maintain any duration on that malice so as to give time to hit at full stacks some group that happens by, you not only have to hope they show up within 10 seconds of reaching peak stac ks, but you better not kill that moose. If that blob also happnes to kill that moose that you left live so you could build malice off it, they just kill the moose.

[SWI.4127]

@babazhook.6805 said:Some month's ago the Shield bash and headbutt activation times for warrior builds was increased to .75 seconds. Many warriors claimed this all but made the skills useless as they could be too easily dodged . On my own warrior I saw the number of successful hits drop significantly and had to adapt as to how I used those skills.

.75 seconds IS a long time . If a person can dodge a shield bash or headbutt, they can certainly avoid a DJ shot. The arguement that one might be distracted by other actions ongoing is a non starter as I can make the same case for any attack. Generally if one of my thiefs caught by a headbutt, unless I immediately break stun I am downed. This hardly means the skill OP.

There is a difference between .75 secs when you see the opponent the entire time vs .75 secs when the opponent can appear at anywhere, any moment. I'm not giving my opinion on the balance with this post, just saying the context changes things.

[babazhook.6805]

@SWI.4127 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:Some month's ago the Shield bash and headbutt activation times for warrior builds was increased to .75 seconds. Many warriors claimed this all but made the skills useless as they could be too easily dodged . On my own warrior I saw the number of successful hits drop significantly and had to adapt as to how I used those skills.

.75 seconds IS a long time . If a person can dodge a shield bash or headbutt, they can certainly avoid a DJ shot. The arguement that one might be distracted by other actions ongoing is a non starter as I can make the same case for any attack. Generally if one of my thiefs caught by a headbutt, unless I immediately break stun I am downed. This hardly means the skill OP.

There is a difference between .75 secs when you see the opponent the entire time vs .75 secs when the opponent can appear at anywhere, any moment. I'm not giving my opinion on the balance with this post, just saying the context changes things.

You do not have to see the player. All you need to do is see the laser.

When I see a warrior I do not just randomly dodge in order to avoid his headbutt. I see the tell for the headbutt or shield bash and than dodge. It the same with the DJ shot. You see that laser. dodge. you hear that sound, dodge. 100 percent damage avoidance pressing one button. That I saw that warrior before he decided to headbutt did not give me more time to dodge the headbutt unless I am guessing that is what he is going to do. I got the same amount of time which is around .75 seconds. Granted it is easier being aware that a warrior is right in front of your face and might try a headbutt but seeing a thief is not required to know what might well be in the area and those attacks anticipated. This is just the nature of stealth and the sneak attack which is the design rationale behing a whole lot of the thief classes in a whole lot of games.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

You only have 0.75s, if you don't have a great ping, you are pretty much buggered.

[babazhook.6805]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

You only have 0.75s, if you don't have a great ping, you are pretty much buggered.

If I am thief and do not have great ping I am buggered by headbutt.Gunflame can drop me in one shot and it has an activation time of .75 s. It is just s likely a person playing thief as high ping as it is the person he faces has the same. You can not base design decisions upon the fact that some people might have high ping as there would be a pile of skills that would warrant attention which would only mean it becomes EASIER for people with low ping to avoid attacks.

If, as example the cast time of DJ raised to 1 second because some people out there might have high ping, then the RELATIVE gains made by people with low ping are greater as they could avoid every attack.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

You only have 0.75s, if you don't have a great ping, you are pretty much buggered.

If I am thief and do not have great ping I am buggered by headbutt.Gunflame can drop me in one shot and it has an activation time of .75 s. It is just s likely a person playing thief as high ping as it is the person he faces has the same. You can not base design decisions upon the fact that some people might have high ping as there would be a pile of skills that would warrant attention which would only mean it becomes EASIER for people with low ping to avoid attacks.

If, as example the cast time of DJ raised to 1 second because some people out there might have high ping, then the RELATIVE gains made by people with low ping are greater as they could avoid every attack.

I'm well aware of that, but all those other skills are far easier to avoid since the player executing them is visible before they activate the skill.

[babazhook.6805]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

You only have 0.75s, if you don't have a great ping, you are pretty much buggered.

If I am thief and do not have great ping I am buggered by headbutt.Gunflame can drop me in one shot and it has an activation time of .75 s. It is just s likely a person playing thief as high ping as it is the person he faces has the same. You can not base design decisions upon the fact that some people might have high ping as there would be a pile of skills that would warrant attention which would only mean it becomes EASIER for people with low ping to avoid attacks.

If, as example the cast time of DJ raised to 1 second because some people out there might have high ping, then the RELATIVE gains made by people with low ping are greater as they could avoid every attack.

I'm well aware of that, but all those other skills are far easier to avoid since the player executing them is visible before they activate the skill.

.75 seconds is still .75 seconds. There is also a sound made. It sort of like if I was standing 10 floors down and someone up above was dropping sardine tins out a window. It takes .75 seconds for the can to reach me. just because I see the guy dropping it does not mean the sardine tin drops slower.

Now added to that projectiles have a speed meaning the further away I am from the source the easier it is to dodge.

Yes there the element of surprise but that the nature of stealth. If there a thief in the area using ANY build , you have to anticipate him being able to strike out of stealth. That one of the componets of how they work just like I have to anticipate a reflect going up on an engineer as I start an unload.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

You only have 0.75s, if you don't have a great ping, you are pretty much buggered.

If I am thief and do not have great ping I am buggered by headbutt.Gunflame can drop me in one shot and it has an activation time of .75 s. It is just s likely a person playing thief as high ping as it is the person he faces has the same. You can not base design decisions upon the fact that some people might have high ping as there would be a pile of skills that would warrant attention which would only mean it becomes EASIER for people with low ping to avoid attacks.

If, as example the cast time of DJ raised to 1 second because some people out there might have high ping, then the RELATIVE gains made by people with low ping are greater as they could avoid every attack.

I'm well aware of that, but all those other skills are far easier to avoid since the player executing them is visible before they activate the skill.

.75 seconds is still .75 seconds. There is also a sound made. It sort of like if I was standing 10 floors down and someone up above was dropping sardine tins out a window. It takes .75 seconds for the can to reach me. just because I see the guy dropping it does not mean the sardine tin drops slower.

Now added to that projectiles have a speed meaning the further away I am from the source the easier it is to dodge.

Yes there the element of surprise but that the nature of stealth. If there a thief in the area using ANY build , you have to anticipate him being able to strike out of stealth. That one of the componets of how they work just like I have to anticipate a reflect going up on an engineer as I start an unload.

I'm perfectly fine with thief attacking from stealth for any melee build, but even if you maintain good situational awareness, you can still get popped from max range with this skill. It's not a good thing for the game and there is no defending it. It doesn't take any skill and there is no counter play unless you are staring directly at your character 24/7, have a good ping and your sound turned up, and even then if the thief misses, they can just use it again immediately or go back into stealth. If you needed to mark the target you were going to DJ to get the damage bonus, I'd say it is fine, as it is, it's pretty absurd.

And the argument that you need to be a glass cannon holds no water either since you can run full valkyrie and still have 100% crit chance for it. Like this; http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAU4ansMBtFjlPBePBUGjlhCjPUeKflcBgFQDYbLVaGAA-jFSBQBA4CAcl9HYkSQLp+zDeCAiU5X5OIA6R3ApAiYMA-w

[snh.7091]

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous. It would be nowhere near as bad if you had to mark the target you intended to DJ, because you would have a decent tell then, but being able to mark anything targetable, stack stealth and wait for 7 malice and then nuke someone out of the blue with only a 0.75s cast time is just absurd.

[snh.7091]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous.

It's something people should have counted on. We are talking about snipers here, right? Or you suppose that a sniper should only hit you for 25% of your life. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so they should either leave it powerful or scrap it from the game altogether, because taking away the only dmg source (raw power, we got no condi and condi doesn't make sense on a rifle spec either) renders the class completely obsolete. It totally derails its purpose.

I don't know how much clearer can I be about snipers. People simply refuse to understand the core of the class - lethal strikes, single target focus and elimination. Strategic target clearance that has to be swift and deadly. You need to take out a target? Hire a sniper to do the job. That's what it's all about. That's why it's called ASSASSINATION.

Quick searches for related documents, please educate yourselves:

One Shot, One Kill: 11 Facts About Snipershttps://www.phactual.com/one-shot-one-kill-11-facts-about-snipers/

Wikipedia article on Snipershttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Chinese Proverb: The sniper’s job can be summarized by a proverb on display at Marine Corps Camp Pendleton: “Kill one man, terrorize a thousand.”

[primatos.5413]

Remove Stealth. Problem solved. Next.

[snh.7091]

@primatos.5413 said:Remove Stealth. Problem solved. Next.

Very ignorant comment. Stealth is a core mechanic of the class and inseparable from the role.

[Turk.5460]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous.

It's something people should have counted on. We are talking about snipers here, right? Or you suppose that a sniper should only hit you for 25% of your life. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so they should either leave it powerful or scrap it from the game altogether, because taking away the only dmg source (raw power, we got no condi and condi doesn't make sense on a rifle spec either) renders the class completely obsolete. It totally derails its purpose.

I don't know how much clearer can I be about snipers. People simply refuse to understand the core of the class - lethal strikes, single target focus and elimination. Strategic target clearance that has to be swift and deadly. You need to take out a target? Hire a sniper to do the job. That's what it's all about. That's why it's called ASSASSINATION.

Quick searches for related documents, please educate yourselves:

One Shot, One Kill: 11 Facts About Snipers

https://www.phactual.com/one-shot-one-kill-11-facts-about-snipers/

Wikipedia article on Snipers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Chinese Proverb: The sniper’s job can be summarized by a proverb on display at Marine Corps Camp Pendleton: “Kill one man, terrorize a thousand.”

This is completely irrelevant. This is a video game. Posting about real-life snipers is not conducive to a video game discussion.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous.

It's something people should have counted on. We are talking about snipers here, right? Or you suppose that a sniper should only hit you for 25% of your life. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so they should either leave it powerful or scrap it from the game altogether, because taking away the only dmg source (raw power, we got no condi and condi doesn't make sense on a rifle spec either) renders the class completely obsolete. It totally derails its purpose.

I don't know how much clearer can I be about snipers. People simply refuse to understand the core of the class - lethal strikes, single target focus and elimination. Strategic target clearance that has to be swift and deadly. You need to take out a target? Hire a sniper to do the job. That's what it's all about. That's why it's called ASSASSINATION.

Quick searches for related documents, please educate yourselves:

One Shot, One Kill: 11 Facts About Snipers

https://www.phactual.com/one-shot-one-kill-11-facts-about-snipers/

Wikipedia article on Snipers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Chinese Proverb: The sniper’s job can be summarized by a proverb on display at Marine Corps Camp Pendleton: “Kill one man, terrorize a thousand.”

I can apply the same logic to any martial weapon in this game. Got critically hit with an arrow? Dead. Hit with a 6 ft greatsword in the face? Dead. Leaping Axe strike? It's even called DECAPITATE. Dead. Stabbed in the gut with a sword? Dead. Burned alive with a flamethrower for 2s? Dead. 3 grenades land at your feet? Dead.

Get the picture?

The problem is being able to stack Malice on a different target to the one you want to use DJ on for all the 15% modifiers because there is no counterplay and regardless of any of your (flawed) logic about the core of the profession, everything needs a counterplay or it is simply OP by definition. I'd have no issue if I get marked and then the thief goes into stealth because I can move out of range, time the malice gain, reveal, or actually dodge the skill because there is a tell, without it the skill is just broken. Assuming it's being used while stealthed and therefore only a 0.75s window, not including latency.

ASSASSINATION is for political reasons, not personal gain.

I know more about long range shooting than you are likely to learn in your lifetime, I don't need to read 11 facts.

[snh.7091]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous.

It's something people should have counted on. We are talking about snipers here, right? Or you suppose that a sniper should only hit you for 25% of your life. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so they should either leave it powerful or scrap it from the game altogether, because taking away the only dmg source (raw power, we got no condi and condi doesn't make sense on a rifle spec either) renders the class completely obsolete. It totally derails its purpose.

I don't know how much clearer can I be about snipers. People simply refuse to understand the core of the class - lethal strikes, single target focus and elimination. Strategic target clearance that has to be swift and deadly. You need to take out a target? Hire a sniper to do the job. That's what it's all about. That's why it's called ASSASSINATION.

Quick searches for related documents, please educate yourselves:

One Shot, One Kill: 11 Facts About Snipers

https://www.phactual.com/one-shot-one-kill-11-facts-about-snipers/

Wikipedia article on Snipers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Chinese Proverb: The sniper’s job can be summarized by a proverb on display at Marine Corps Camp Pendleton: “Kill one man, terrorize a thousand.”

This is completely irrelevant. This is a video game. Posting about real-life snipers is not conducive to a video game discussion.

It is relevant because the source of inspiration must be nothing else than real life. Where else have you met with snipers?

[Chaba.5410]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous.

It's something people should have counted on. We are talking about snipers here, right? Or you suppose that a sniper should only hit you for 25% of your life. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so they should either leave it powerful or scrap it from the game altogether, because taking away the only dmg source (raw power, we got no condi and condi doesn't make sense on a rifle spec either) renders the class completely obsolete. It totally derails its purpose.

I don't know how much clearer can I be about snipers. People simply refuse to understand the core of the class - lethal strikes, single target focus and elimination. Strategic target clearance that has to be swift and deadly. You need to take out a target? Hire a sniper to do the job. That's what it's all about. That's why it's called ASSASSINATION.

Quick searches for related documents, please educate yourselves:

One Shot, One Kill: 11 Facts About Snipers

https://www.phactual.com/one-shot-one-kill-11-facts-about-snipers/

Wikipedia article on Snipers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Chinese Proverb: The sniper’s job can be summarized by a proverb on display at Marine Corps Camp Pendleton: “Kill one man, terrorize a thousand.”

This is completely irrelevant. This is a video game. Posting about real-life snipers is not conducive to a video game discussion.

It is relevant because the source of inspiration must be nothing else than real life. Where else have you met with snipers?

I'm not sure what source of inspiration has to do with designing and balancing video game mechanics. By this logic, the whole game is flawed because everyone can clip through each other.

[babazhook.6805]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

You only have 0.75s, if you don't have a great ping, you are pretty much buggered.

If I am thief and do not have great ping I am buggered by headbutt.Gunflame can drop me in one shot and it has an activation time of .75 s. It is just s likely a person playing thief as high ping as it is the person he faces has the same. You can not base design decisions upon the fact that some people might have high ping as there would be a pile of skills that would warrant attention which would only mean it becomes EASIER for people with low ping to avoid attacks.

If, as example the cast time of DJ raised to 1 second because some people out there might have high ping, then the RELATIVE gains made by people with low ping are greater as they could avoid every attack.

I'm well aware of that, but all those other skills are far easier to avoid since the player executing them is visible before they activate the skill.

.75 seconds is still .75 seconds. There is also a sound made. It sort of like if I was standing 10 floors down and someone up above was dropping sardine tins out a window. It takes .75 seconds for the can to reach me. just because I see the guy dropping it does not mean the sardine tin drops slower.

Now added to that projectiles have a speed meaning the further away I am from the source the easier it is to dodge.

Yes there the element of surprise but that the nature of stealth. If there a thief in the area using ANY build , you have to anticipate him being able to strike out of stealth. That one of the componets of how they work just like I have to anticipate a reflect going up on an engineer as I start an unload.

I'm perfectly fine with thief attacking from stealth for any melee build, but even if you maintain good situational awareness, you can still get popped from max range with this skill. It's not a good thing for the game and there is no defending it. It doesn't take any skill and there is no counter play unless you are staring directly at your character 24/7, have a good ping and your sound turned up, and even then if the thief misses, they can just use it again immediately or go back into stealth. If you needed to mark the target you were going to DJ to get the damage bonus, I'd say it is fine, as it is, it's pretty absurd.

And the argument that you need to be a glass cannon holds no water either since you can run full valkyrie and still have 100% crit chance for it. Like this;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAU4ansMBtFjlPBePBUGjlhCjPUeKflcBgFQDYbLVaGAA-jFSBQBA4CAcl9HYkSQLp+zDeCAiU5X5OIA6R3ApAiYMA-w

I do not recall saying thief had to be a glass cannon.

DJ has all of two uses. At the very outside, if things go perfectly they MIGHT get three but that rare. All professions have a greater combinations of blocks/dodges and projectile hate in numbers greater then that. Once this INI used ALL of the thief weapon skills are unusable outside the AA which is not very hard hitting when compared to other theif weapons. (see dagger).

Once the Thief INI used the only way they can restealth is with a utility all of which all have cooldowns. Once that INI runs out and the thief restealths we are at the 25 second point meaning in order to get off anymore DJ malice has to start from scratch. (The claim the thief builds ini off ambients and stays stealthed that some others make is simply false. It would take 21 seconds to do this and malice ends at 25).

I think you should play thief more as a DE before you comment on it popping off a DJ at maximum range. The majority of thieves will not do this as there too great a chance the shot misses . The shots are obstructed by uneven terrain, the bullet can be outrun via normal movement and so on. Most thieves will get in much closer so as to ensure they are not wasting 6 ini. There have been even more reveals added to game yet in game, in spite of all the complaints about DJ other classes rarely take them. I asked on this once before and was told "There are better skills to take". If a person has better skills to take then something that can reveal a thief then the skill can not be deemed OP because it not that important.

Just by way of example. Necromancer's are deemed the most vulnerable to thief due to low mobility. All have two dodges and they also have Corrosive poison cloud which a persisitent 8 second field that blocks projectiles. On my own necromancer , Knowing how the DE works, I will dodge the initial DJ and then throw up that cloud. The Cloud lasts 8 seconds meaning 9 times out of ten the MALICE the DE has built has run out by time that Cloud goes away meaning he has to start from scratch.

A warrior has ample endurance regen (might makes right) along with Invulns and shield block with reflect. Dodge the first shot, and follow wih a shield block. The DE will either see his shot reflected or have to outwait the block to get his second shot off again pushing him to the Malice run down time. By he time he builds up his malice again the warrior regains another dodge and his shield block close to being off cooldown.

The suggestion that these shots from range happen too quickly to be responded to is simply false and I make that claim based upon my own ability to do so when facing a DE thief and by the numbers of people I see in WvW that manage to evade block or avoid my own shots. A thief can take a multiple of these shots before one connects. There a reason the Rifle set performs relatively poorly in a 1v1 and that because of the fact the big hitter that is DJ sucks down INI and the use of it forces the thief into using the AA exclusively. This very unlike dagger as example where if the backstab from stealth misses or is blocked and THAT ini wasted, the thief can followup with hard hitting AA.

[snh.7091]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous.

It's something people should have counted on. We are talking about snipers here, right? Or you suppose that a sniper should only hit you for 25% of your life. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so they should either leave it powerful or scrap it from the game altogether, because taking away the only dmg source (raw power, we got no condi and condi doesn't make sense on a rifle spec either) renders the class completely obsolete. It totally derails its purpose.

I don't know how much clearer can I be about snipers. People simply refuse to understand the core of the class - lethal strikes, single target focus and elimination. Strategic target clearance that has to be swift and deadly. You need to take out a target? Hire a sniper to do the job. That's what it's all about. That's why it's called ASSASSINATION.

Quick searches for related documents, please educate yourselves:

One Shot, One Kill: 11 Facts About Snipers

https://www.phactual.com/one-shot-one-kill-11-facts-about-snipers/

Wikipedia article on Snipers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Chinese Proverb: The sniper’s job can be summarized by a proverb on display at Marine Corps Camp Pendleton: “Kill one man, terrorize a thousand.”

This is completely irrelevant. This is a video game. Posting about real-life snipers is not conducive to a video game discussion.

It is relevant because the source of inspiration must be nothing else than real life. Where else have you met with snipers?

By this logic, the whole game is flawed because everyone can clip through each other.

That it is flawed everyone knows, that is fact, that is why we're having these discussions that btw in the end will solve again nothing I presume as ANet have a history of not listening to feedback, or just partially.

[Chaba.5410]

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Inoki.6048 said:

@Alehin.3746 said:

@icecreamsupernova.8956 said:DE's damage is not an issue. By the time DE have enough malice stacks to do that, you can find cover or even kill them if you have enough mobility. DJ can be

blocked

,

dodged

, miss if they're

blind

and you can even get out of range if you have enough mobility, because they have to be kneeling when casting it. I'm pretty sure you had plenty of time/tools to deal with it, but you just didnt know how.

Exactly this. Thank you for mentioning it.

It's funny when you think of it - most classes generate very high dmg output if played right. Mesmer one-hit kill you with their burst combo. Even a Ranger with GS can take you down with skill 2 if you're glass, I did that on my ranger when I took down ppl with one hit from the GS. Warriors can take you down in a split second with their burst. Scourges take you down by touching you once landing 20+ stacks of 5+ condis on you.

But all this is fine for most. Literally people see this is nothing wrong.

But because a thief has always been a powerful class (assassination, it has to be) people always saw it as something that should be nerfed being completely ignorant about the fact that our abilites (with the rifle) can be easily dodged, blocked, reflected. All you have to do is respond in a timely manner, which is entirely possible.

To conclude, mostly it's just an l2p issue.

Any skill that can 100-0 someone, is OP and bad for the game, there is no denying that. 1v1 against a DE, sure, it is dodgeable/reflect etc but in a team fight it's just ridiculous.

It's something people should have counted on. We are talking about snipers here, right? Or you suppose that a sniper should only hit you for 25% of your life. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so they should either leave it powerful or scrap it from the game altogether, because taking away the only dmg source (raw power, we got no condi and condi doesn't make sense on a rifle spec either) renders the class completely obsolete. It totally derails its purpose.

I don't know how much clearer can I be about snipers. People simply refuse to understand the core of the class - lethal strikes, single target focus and elimination. Strategic target clearance that has to be swift and deadly. You need to take out a target? Hire a sniper to do the job. That's what it's all about. That's why it's called ASSASSINATION.

Quick searches for related documents, please educate yourselves:

One Shot, One Kill: 11 Facts About Snipers

https://www.phactual.com/one-shot-one-kill-11-facts-about-snipers/

Wikipedia article on Snipers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Chinese Proverb: The sniper’s job can be summarized by a proverb on display at Marine Corps Camp Pendleton: “Kill one man, terrorize a thousand.”

This is completely irrelevant. This is a video game. Posting about real-life snipers is not conducive to a video game discussion.

It is relevant because the source of inspiration must be nothing else than real life. Where else have you met with snipers?

By this logic, the whole game is flawed because everyone can clip through each other.

That it is flawed everyone knows, that is fact, that is why we're having these discussions that btw in the end will solve again nothing I presume as ANet have a history of not listening to feedback, or just partially.

It's terrible isn't it! Magic shouldn't work either, nor should we be able to fly and teleport and go invisible out in the middle of a field in broad daylight because those things don't really happen in real life. And don't get me started on rolling to dodge....

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

There's literally nothing wrong with DJ. In fact, if you have a problem with dodging/reflecting/blocking a terribly telegraphed skill, then the only problem here is with you. The fact that you don't understand how easy it is to counter this skill is just laughable.

You only have 0.75s, if you don't have a great ping, you are pretty much buggered.

If I am thief and do not have great ping I am buggered by headbutt.Gunflame can drop me in one shot and it has an activation time of .75 s. It is just s likely a person playing thief as high ping as it is the person he faces has the same. You can not base design decisions upon the fact that some people might have high ping as there would be a pile of skills that would warrant attention which would only mean it becomes EASIER for people with low ping to avoid attacks.

If, as example the cast time of DJ raised to 1 second because some people out there might have high ping, then the RELATIVE gains made by people with low ping are greater as they could avoid every attack.

I'm well aware of that, but all those other skills are far easier to avoid since the player executing them is visible before they activate the skill.

.75 seconds is still .75 seconds. There is also a sound made. It sort of like if I was standing 10 floors down and someone up above was dropping sardine tins out a window. It takes .75 seconds for the can to reach me. just because I see the guy dropping it does not mean the sardine tin drops slower.

Now added to that projectiles have a speed meaning the further away I am from the source the easier it is to dodge.

Yes there the element of surprise but that the nature of stealth. If there a thief in the area using ANY build , you have to anticipate him being able to strike out of stealth. That one of the componets of how they work just like I have to anticipate a reflect going up on an engineer as I start an unload.

I'm perfectly fine with thief attacking from stealth for any melee build, but even if you maintain good situational awareness, you can still get popped from max range with this skill. It's not a good thing for the game and there is no defending it. It doesn't take any skill and there is no counter play unless you are staring directly at your character 24/7, have a good ping and your sound turned up, and even then if the thief misses, they can just use it again immediately or go back into stealth. If you needed to mark the target you were going to DJ to get the damage bonus, I'd say it is fine, as it is, it's pretty absurd.

And the argument that you need to be a glass cannon holds no water either since you can run full valkyrie and still have 100% crit chance for it. Like this;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAU4ansMBtFjlPBePBUGjlhCjPUeKflcBgFQDYbLVaGAA-jFSBQBA4CAcl9HYkSQLp+zDeCAiU5X5OIA6R3ApAiYMA-w

I do not recall saying thief had to be a glass cannon.I didn't mean to imply that you had, I was just addressing the point that was made previously, I should have clarified.