Deaths Judgment

[SWI.4127]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Something/Someone was marked though, maybe read the Death’s Judgement Skill Tooltip, it will show you as per Tooltip it’s working, stipulations state DJ gets bonus Damage per Malice stack, not Malice stack on Marked Target, Mark gives bonus Damage on Marked Target per Malice stack. See two different things that people think are the same.

I think most people in this thread who have been paying attention know how it works by now. I think the point is that it may not be broken by the word of the tooltip, but it's broken mechanics-wise and it makes no sense.

To get large numbers it takes multiple skills and long setup time for DJ.

What exactly is the setup here other "press F1 on some other target and wait"?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@SWI.4127 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Something/Someone was marked though, maybe read the Death’s Judgement Skill Tooltip, it will show you as per Tooltip it’s working, stipulations state DJ gets bonus Damage per Malice stack, not Malice stack on Marked Target, Mark gives bonus Damage on Marked Target per Malice stack. See two different things that people think are the same.

I think most people in this thread who have been paying attention know how it works by now. I think the point is that it may not be broken by the word of the tooltip, but it's broken mechanics-wise and it makes no sense.

To get large numbers it takes multiple skills and long setup time for DJ.

What exactly is the setup here other "press F1 on some other target and wait"?

F1, wait for Malice, Kneel, Maintain Stealth, Assassin’s Signet, then Death’s Judgement. Then that’s if someone shows up in the 23 seconds otherwise reset all over again.

And no it’s not breaking the mechanic, Mark offers it’s own damage bonus on a Single target that is completely separate from Death’s Judgement bonus from Malice, Malice is applied to the Thief not the Target, the sooner people realize that the better, they may function off of Malice but that doesn’t mean they have to both be effective only on a Marked Target, hence the difference in Tooltip descriptions.

[kash.9213]

Take away thief telegraphs, both visual and audio, watch all the complaints threads about thief disappear.

[coro.3176]

The burst has been getting pretty ridiculous all round, to be honest.

Last night, I took 15k from half a Quickness Rapid Fire - 5 hits in under 500 millisesconds before I could dodge. Then I dodged twice to avoid the next 5 Rapid Fire hits and the follow up auto-attack that would have killed me instantly. That's at 1500 range too. I didn't even know the ranger was targeting me until I was almost dead.

At least with deadeye you (in theory) should get some warning that you're marked/targeted.

But yeah, damage is just waaaay too high everywhere.

[SWI.4127]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:F1, wait for Malice, Kneel, Maintain Stealth, Assassin’s Signet, then Death’s Judgement. Then that’s if someone shows up in the 23 seconds otherwise reset all over again.

Sorry so it's basically F1, wait, then press a signet button.

And no it’s not breaking the mechanic, Mark offers it’s own damage bonus on a Single target that is completely separate from Death’s Judgement bonus from Malice, Malice is applied to the Thief not the Target, the sooner people realize that the better, they may function off of Malice but that doesn’t mean they have to both be effective only on a Marked Target, hence the difference in Tooltip descriptions.

I feel like you're misunderstanding me. I know the mechanic. I did not mean that it is breaking the mechanic, I mean the mechanic itself is broken, and doesn't belong in GW2.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@SWI.4127 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:F1, wait for Malice, Kneel, Maintain Stealth, Assassin’s Signet, then Death’s Judgement. Then that’s if someone shows up in the 23 seconds otherwise reset all over again.

Sorry so it's basically F1, wait, then press a signet button.

And no it’s not breaking the mechanic, Mark offers it’s own damage bonus on a Single target that is completely separate from Death’s Judgement bonus from Malice, Malice is applied to the Thief not the Target, the sooner people realize that the better, they may function off of Malice but that doesn’t mean they have to both be effective only on a Marked Target, hence the difference in Tooltip descriptions.

I feel like you're misunderstanding me. I know the mechanic. I did not mean that it is breaking the mechanic, I mean the mechanic

itself

is broken, and doesn't belong in GW2.

You are discounting all the other skills to maintain stealth so they can burst someone without being first visible before Deaths Judgements Cast and the fact they are almost all but immobile remember Kneel/unkneel are Skills as well and use Ini.

It’s quite clear some people won’t take any explanation no matter how simple the break down is and they suffer greatly from l2psyndrome. Especially on top of the setup and all the tells involved and drawbacks.

Can’t just say setup doesn’t exist when clearly there is setup involved or does the definition of setup need to be explained simply?

[Chaba.5410]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :

LOL 40k!

[Jeknar.6184]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :

LOL 40k!

I found this on the internet:

[SWI.4127]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:You are discounting all the other skills to maintain stealth so they can burst someone without being first visible before Deaths Judgements Cast and the fact they are almost all but immobile remember Kneel/unkneel are Skills as well and use Ini.

It’s quite clear some people won’t take any explanation no matter how simple the break down is and they suffer greatly from l2psyndrome. Especially on top of the setup and all the tells involved and drawbacks.

Can’t just say setup doesn’t exist when clearly there is setup involved or does the definition of setup need to be explained simply?

I think the issue here is you keep talking about this in the context of a 1v1 or small-scale scenario. I'd argue the majority of WvW is not like that at all. All that setup would be required in a duel, yes you are correct. OR in a big fight you could just mark a random enemy, a wall, a mosquito, run around in the backline or flank waiting for Malice, then kneel and 1-shot someone. There is very little risk for that amount of reward. Again people are not realistically going to be tracking you that entire time, nor should they be expected to.

[Turk.5460]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :

LOL 40k!

I found this on the internet:

What is this, a level 5 character without armor? Haha15k auto attack. Yeah, that's not feasible in WvW on actual players. xD

[Jeknar.6184]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :

LOL 40k!

I found this on the internet:

What is this, a level 5 character without armor? Haha15k auto attack. Yeah, that's not feasible in WvW on actual players. xD

For what I gathered, that's spvp with Warrior banners, Ranger spirits and 25 might stacks. I couldn't find the full screenshot tho.

Edit: Actually, I found the complete screenshot someone posted in one of my discords: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164400183461937152/348385526379970563/Untitled.jpg

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :

LOL 40k!

I found this on the internet:

What is this, a level 5 character without armor? Haha15k auto attack. Yeah, that's not feasible in WvW on actual players. xD

For what I gathered, that's spvp with Warrior banners, Ranger spirits and 25 might stacks. I couldn't find the full screenshot tho.

Edit: Actually, I found the complete screenshot someone posted in one of my discords:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164400183461937152/348385526379970563/Untitled.jpg

Edison was also not wearing armor, it was full burst just to show the meme numbers, it was funny

[bq pd.2148]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:Edison was also not wearing armor, it was full burst just to show the meme numbers, it was funnypuh and here i thought i did something wrong hitting so much lower :D

[Jeknar.6184]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :

LOL 40k!

I found this on the internet:

What is this, a level 5 character without armor? Haha15k auto attack. Yeah, that's not feasible in WvW on actual players. xD

For what I gathered, that's spvp with Warrior banners, Ranger spirits and 25 might stacks. I couldn't find the full screenshot tho.

Edit: Actually, I found the complete screenshot someone posted in one of my discords:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164400183461937152/348385526379970563/Untitled.jpg

Edison was also not wearing armor, it was full burst just to show the meme numbers, it was funny

Remind me of when I was doing Killshot meme numbers with my [Yarr] friends back in 2014.

[Yerlock.4678]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@gmmg.9210 said:It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a

very

significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

could you make an example what you need additonal to the current significant telegraph? maybe a 5 second cast, so you can react after 3 and still interrupt it ?yesterday i had some people asking me for duels after i oneshot them and knowing whats going to come they avoided nearly all DJ - but they still lost :Dit is a l2p issue, luckily most people in WvWvW will never learn it tho so i can still play it. but if i could use deadeye elite on my daredevil i would play that one.daredevil is better to stomp someone 1 vs 50 cause of the elite but i need deadeye elite when hiding in enemy keeps or towers cause the anti stealth trap spam is still real.

How about the ability to see something, like say a marker, before we get shot. The whole purpose of deadeye is to build up to that DJ kill, but in WvW people are leaching off of the environment to get easy kills that require no skill at all. In less than a split second I'm expected to dodge perfectly or I die in heavy armor with a high HP? If that's not bad gameplay I don't know what is. The telegraph only needs tweaks to make it counterable, not a five second cast. But the point is there is no strategy, no counter-play, nothing except a split-second dodge that I should time exactly right or I die... in heavy armor. It's broken, at least in WvW.

[Jeknar.6184]

@gmmg.9210 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@gmmg.9210 said:It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a

very

significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

could you make an example what you need additonal to the current significant telegraph? maybe a 5 second cast, so you can react after 3 and still interrupt it ?yesterday i had some people asking me for duels after i oneshot them and knowing whats going to come they avoided nearly all DJ - but they still lost :Dit is a l2p issue, luckily most people in WvWvW will never learn it tho so i can still play it. but if i could use deadeye elite on my daredevil i would play that one.daredevil is better to stomp someone 1 vs 50 cause of the elite but i need deadeye elite when hiding in enemy keeps or towers cause the anti stealth trap spam is still real.

How about the ability to see something, like say a marker, before we get shot. The whole purpose of deadeye is to build up to that DJ kill, but in WvW people are leaching off of the environment to get easy kills that require no skill at all.

In less than a split second I'm expected to dodge perfectly or I die in heavy armor with a high HP?

If that's not bad gameplay I don't know what is. The telegraph only needs tweaks to make it counterable, not a five second cast. But the point is there is no strategy, no counter-play, nothing except a split-second dodge that I should time exactly right or I die... in heavy armor. It's broken, at least in WvW.

It have a huge red laser telegraph and sound cues... Sure, maybe they could increase the cast time to a full second instead of 3/4, but if you go much further than that, you'll basically be rendering the whole skill useless.

[bq pd.2148]

@gmmg.9210 said:How about the ability to see something, like say a marker, before we get shot. The whole purpose of deadeye is to build up to that DJ kill, but in WvW people are leaching off of the environment to get easy kills that require no skill at all. In less than a split second I'm expected to dodge perfectly or I die in heavy armor with a high HP? If that's not bad gameplay I don't know what is. The telegraph only needs tweaks to make it counterable, not a five second cast. But the point is there is no strategy, no counter-play, nothing except a split-second dodge that I should time exactly right or I die... in heavy armor. It's broken, at least in WvW.

it allready has a huge telegraph as jeknar said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:It have a huge red laser telegraph and sound cues... Sure, maybe they could increase the cast time to a full second instead of 3/4, but if you go much further than that, you'll basically be rendering the whole skill useless.

i wanted to know what further adjustments you want , you said something visible - but it is. so i dont understand what you want added and still like you to give me an idea, maybe describe how you think the skill should be telegraphed.

• also against aware enemies so far i am not really able to land it unless i use it while they use a long animation that they would need to cancel for instance heartseeker on a thief, then they need to cancel with weapon swap and dogge oder port out of my range or interrupt with steal but they cant dogge. now if those skills are also on cd.. :Dbut minding all that while running full berserk like i do i think its fair game. the only 'cheap way' i sometime do is when there are 2 enemies i aim at one and switch to the other at the end of the laser. maybe retargetting could be disbled for this one skill but well it works for pretty much everything in the game.

• you wont kill a heavy armor tank traget without mark and oneshot especially not if your not running full berserk but marauder instead. today i even wasnt able to oneshot a condi warrior cause heavy armor + thoughness +lots of hp and that was with a mark on him and so on, the same way i made the shot against the scourge with over 40k that i linked before. so if you are heavy armor tank unless you got a mark on you, you should be safe, and if you got one just watch out for the laser and keep moving to your zerg and ignore the deadeye.

[Sobx.1758]

@gmmg.9210 said:It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a very significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

Except it has a VERY significant telegraph, if you keep missing it somehow, you might want to see a doctor. For real.

[SWI.4127]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@gmmg.9210 said:

@Jeknar.6184 said:It have a huge red laser telegraph and sound cues... Sure, maybe they could increase the cast time to a full second instead of 3/4, but if you go much further than that, you'll basically be rendering the whole skill useless.

i wanted to know what further adjustments you want , you said something visible - but it is. so i dont understand what you want added and still like you to give me an idea, maybe describe how you think the skill should be telegraphed.There's a very obvious answer here. Leave the animation - make the shot not capable of doing that type of damage

unless

the target is also marked. If you are marked and you still eat it, you deserve it.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:. Full marauders with relevantly picked traits in DE (other two lines can be trickery and literally anything else without damage modifiers if desired), scholar runes and a sigil is enough to OHKO most players assuming the deadeye builds malice to full. DEs are given too high of a reward for such little investment imo.

not sure how trickery helps me get high oneshots .. i play without it. oh and a new screen for today against a scourge :

Oh it doesn't. I was trying to say that a DE can build themselves to make maximal use of initiative/mark and have as much sustain as possible through traitlines. The only damage modifiers would be coming from scholar runes/relevant sigils, assassin's signet (easily slottable utility) and the Deadeye traitline itself. In other words: You don't have to utilize a full-cheese build to achieve these ridiculously high numbers. It's just built into the specialization/skill itself.

[Yerlock.4678]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@gmmg.9210 said:It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a

very

significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

Except it has a

VERY

significant telegraph, if you keep missing it somehow, you might want to see a doctor. For real.

This is one of the problems with introducing one-hit kill mechanics. It leads people to say things like "well if you can't do a simple dodge then git gud".

Look, some people just want to sit back and roam or play without having to be paranoid every 30 seconds about some random sniper one shotting them out of nowhere and without a marker. If Anet simply fixes this whole Deadeye leaching off targets in WvW problem, everyone will benefit.

[Sobx.1758]

*> @gmmg.9210 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@gmmg.9210 said:It's kitten. Anet entered dangerous territory with this. Giving a one hit anything without a

very

significant telegraph is just bad for the game. And the WvW setting just makes matters worse. It needs a change.

Except it has a

VERY

significant telegraph, if you keep missing it somehow, you might want to see a doctor. For real.

This is one of the problems with introducing one-hit kill mechanics. It leads people to say things like "well if you can't do a simple dodge then git gud".

Look, some people just want to sit back and roam or play without having to be paranoid every 30 seconds about some random sniper one shotting them out of nowhere and without a marker. If Anet simply fixes this whole Deadeye leaching off targets in WvW problem, everyone will benefit.

So what you're saying here is that you want to roam and gank people.... but you don't want to be ganked? This is not how this works.

And it's not "git gut", that's just a fact. If something has a counterplay, but you refuse/fail to do it, it's not a faulty mechanic, it's you being, well, bad probably. And you writing "hurr durr people just write git gut" won't change that fact. If you don't want to "be paranoid" then:a) don't be paranoid and deal with a fact that when you get jumped while not being ready, you'll most probably die. Well, kitten happens.b) don't play a mode that's in a big part based on roaming and jumping people. Go play pve instead to "sit back and be safe".

But hey, I don't like blobs rolling over the smaller groups or single players, should anet start thinking about changing whole WvW, beacuse I don't like something that's undeniably a part of that gamemode?As I said (probably in another thread?), WvW is the closest GW2 has to open world pvp. Deal with all of the requirements/consequences or leave and do something you like.

[bq pd.2148]

@SWI.4127 said:There's a very obvious answer here. Leave the animation - make the shot not capable of doing that type of damage unless the target is also marked. If you are marked and you still eat it, you deserve it.

my question was to someone who said its not visible, out of no where and not telegraphed. what has your answer to do with the question i raised in my previous post? im talking about the telegraph and you answer about damage that you want lowered.the thing is the skill does not 'that type of damge' unless it is marked. on 0 thoughness people i do 40k marked, 30k unmarked thats a 10k diffrence. and before you know argue that those numbers are too high i am on full berserk and can get instant killed by most of my opponents aswell ontop of not running trickery so i have serious initative problems as the skills are very expensive. against good opponents daredevil is therefore still much stronger, but deadeye can remove revealed and can hit higher if their opponents dont avoid it, so they are better against large groups of noobs. now guess what we got most in WvW.

@gmmg.9210 said:This is one of the problems with introducing one-hit kill mechanics. It leads people to say things like "well if you can't do a simple dodge then git gud".

Look, some people just want to sit back and roam or play without having to be paranoid every 30 seconds about some random sniper one shotting them out of nowhere and without a marker. If Anet simply fixes this whole Deadeye leaching off targets in WvW problem, everyone will benefit.

i also want to roam solo and lean back and dont want to fight outnumbered like all the time and people ressing each other is very annoying to me, cant have everything.

now to you both id be ok too nerf DJ dmg by like 30% IF it becomes an execute skill as you build p to it and then kill your target, so it works same as daredevils final blow, if you hit a downed enemy or put someone in downstae with it their are automatically stomped. hows that?

[babazhook.6805]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Turk.5460 said:Good on that Thief. That took a long time for him to set up, in which you had plenty of time to condi-spam him down, taking advantage of his incredibly limited condi clear. And if he happened to stealth away, and you just stayed in the area with that large mark over your head, then somehow managed to not dodge after seeing the incredibly vibrant and telling laserbeam then...someone fell prey to a player with more skill or experience.

Death's Judgement isn't a problem. However, shall we take a look at Trail of Anguish and how it pretty much deletes melee assaults at the mere press of a button and (walking forward)?

I dont exactly care about this damage since ive been hit for 16k aswell but i think its fun how this now gets defended when i remember a time people crying about killshot/gunflame doing 15k while also needing to setup with adren gaining before able to hit.Then all of our piercing got removed and damage severely nerfed.But hey its a thief..so need to setup and wait 10 sec..and squishy. and insert random argument here.

Gunflame has higher base damage then does DJ at least according to wiki.

Gunflame is 928(2.2) base with a 3 second burn. It is also AOE hitting three targets and has an interrupt.The range is 1500. The velocity of the projectile is 100 percent faster then normal projectile speed of warrior rifle.

DJ is 696(1.65) as per wiki. There no AOE interrupt nor is there a burn added. Projectile speed is 50 percent faster then the base projectile speed of Thief rifle.

From a damage prespective DJ moves ahaed of Gunflame only when those malice stacks on. It does not have the added benefits of AOE, Burn added, faster prohjectile speed and interrupt that gunflame has.

Both Gunflame and DJ have the same 3/4 activation time.

[Bish.8627]

Things like the lazer don't show when you are around a busy fight