Deaths Judgment

[Zephyra.4709]

I think it's still early in the x-pac's launch to be calling for nerfs. Did you try and get LoS so he would likely get obstructed when shooting Death's Judgement? Even saving an evade/block/reflect would've been valuable.

I'm pretty sure there is a trait that grants dmg modifiers regarding the number of malice stacks a DE has. Take into consideration food buffs, sigils, full zerk, scholar runes etc that is essentially a one trick pony build and he's likely to be downed just as quick with such little HP. Make sure you throw condi AoEs at your feet and/or have fleshwurm tele to a safe spot... I'm no necro main but it helps to have an escape 'oh no' button at hand.

I personally took a 17.6k+ Death's Judgement to the face in PvP last night (which makes me wonder how much harder it would hit in WvW with stuff like food etc) I shouldn't have dismissed the thief I visually saw drop an SR after F1'ing me nor ignored that large time frame in which possibly bettering my preparedness.

[katniss.6735]

There hasn't been a single time where death's judgement hasn't 1 shot me. It's gunflame from stealth. What a stellar idea. Bravo, anet. Thieves really needed this. When this happens to me I just open the map to click waypoint because there's literally no tell or anything to prepare you for this broken mechanic. 1500 range, less than a second cast time, from stealth. 1500 range means you aren't taking any damage from anything. You can take damage while in stealth, but that range with stealth makes you a God.

I fair nerf would be that it not do the top damage at the first hit. That is what is making it impossible. I realize it's based on malice stacks, but that has no bearing in this situation since the target needs to have a reaction window, where there currently is none.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@katniss.6735 said:There hasn't been a single time where death's judgement hasn't 1 shot me. It's gunflame from stealth. What a stellar idea. Bravo, anet. Thieves really needed this. When this happens to me I just open the map to click waypoint because there's literally no tell or anything to prepare you for this broken mechanic. 1500 range, less than a second cast time, from stealth. 1500 range means you aren't taking any damage from anything. You can take damage while in stealth, but that range with stealth makes you a God.

I fair nerf would be that it not do the top damage at the first hit. That is what is making it impossible. I realize it's based on malice stacks, but that has no bearing in this situation since the target needs to have a reaction window, where there currently is none.

You can...you know, open your eyes and watch what is going on lol and if you actually read this thread you would know what and how the thief did this and what to dodge, don't nerf things that people just refuse to learn and adapt to

[ich.7086]

@Zephyra.4709 said:I'm pretty sure there is a trait that grants dmg modifiers regarding the number of malice stacks a DE has.DE does 3% damage more per malice stack on marked target and DJ has an additional 15% par malice stack.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@katniss.6735 said:There hasn't been a single time where death's judgement hasn't 1 shot me. It's gunflame from stealth. What a stellar idea. Bravo, anet. Thieves really needed this. When this happens to me I just open the map to click waypoint because there's literally no tell or anything to prepare you for this broken mechanic. 1500 range, less than a second cast time, from stealth. 1500 range means you aren't taking any damage from anything. You can take damage while in stealth, but that range with stealth makes you a God.

I fair nerf would be that it not do the top damage at the first hit. That is what is making it impossible. I realize it's based on malice stacks, but that has no bearing in this situation since the target needs to have a reaction window, where there currently is none.

Death's Judgement Reveals prior to any damage ever being applied and there is a very obvious Laser connecting between the Deadeye and the Target and the 3/4 cast. Oh and for those high numbers to be hit you have to have Deadeye Mark for over 12 seconds minimum with a Mark over your head and a large Mark at your feet, but yeah there are zero tells and the damage comes instantly from stealth, it's not like it's impossible from the Burst to come from stealth.

[Turk.5460]

@katniss.6735 said:...there's literally no tell or anything to prepare you for this broken mechanic.

...the target needs to have a reaction window, where there currently is none.

What? DJ has the single most easily spotted tell in the game right now. By far. This skill reveals the user upon activation, not completion. On top of that, an incredibly large and incredibly visible laser-beam shows you exactly where the revealed thief is firing from. Please practice using your dodge key.

[Cirrion.8951]

@Arcaedus.7290 said:One-hit KOs are bad for competitive videogames, period. If you look at DJ in a vacuum, it seems like an okay skill but a good Deadeye can make it work and can make it hurt. I had a series of duels just the other day against a deadeye. He spammed auto to build malice. Used stealth and standing rifle 4 to keep his distance. Once malice was full, he popped quickness and used DJ twice in a row. I (barely) dodged the first, hit by the second, 10k damage (3.3k armor and had protection boon on). Making deadeye otherwise complete trash does not justify having a skill that can 1-shot people. It doesn't matter if there is build up or not, this skill hits too hard.

So he one shot you.... after shooting you a bunch of times. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Cirrion.8951]

@katniss.6735 said:There hasn't been a single time where death's judgement hasn't 1 shot me. It's gunflame from stealth. What a stellar idea. Bravo, anet. Thieves really needed this. When this happens to me I just open the map to click waypoint because there's literally no tell or anything to prepare you for this broken mechanic. 1500 range, less than a second cast time, from stealth. 1500 range means you aren't taking any damage from anything. You can take damage while in stealth, but that range with stealth makes you a God.

I fair nerf would be that it not do the top damage at the first hit. That is what is making it impossible. I realize it's based on malice stacks, but that has no bearing in this situation since the target needs to have a reaction window, where there currently is none.

As others have noted, there is a very prominent visual clue that the DJ is incoming. Not to mention that for those big hits you also have to be marked for some time for the malice to stack; you should know that you're a target. If you're ignoring the mark and the giant red laser beam tell from the DJ then it's a L2P issue. Situational awareness is important in competitive play.

[katniss.6735]

I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@katniss.6735 said:I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

Again you can't remove the Tells they are always there and you are revealed as soo as you activate the skill, before the Animation even begins, and the Muzzle of the Rifle has. Unique Tell outside of the Obvious laser, let's not forget the giant bullseye covering the person that's going to be targeted by the Thief lol. It's like some people don't know how to recognize/look at their screen.

Inb4 the lag excuses.

I don't even play Deadeye, I have stuck with my Power Herald and Daredevil since they are so much more versatile and smooth to play. Deadeye was cute during Beta weekend but so so bad.

[icecreamsupernova.8956]

@Cirrion.8951 said:

@Arcaedus.7290 said:One-hit KOs are bad for competitive videogames, period. If you look at DJ in a vacuum, it seems like an okay skill but a good Deadeye can make it work and can make it hurt. I had a series of duels just the other day against a deadeye. He spammed auto to build malice. Used stealth and standing rifle 4 to keep his distance. Once malice was full, he popped quickness and used DJ twice in a row. I (barely) dodged the first, hit by the second, 10k damage (3.3k armor and had protection boon on). Making deadeye otherwise complete trash does not justify having a skill that can 1-shot people. It doesn't matter if there is build up or not, this skill hits too hard.

So he one shot you.... after shooting you a bunch of times. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

i don't even think 10k is that bad and seems fine for a high risk skill (supposedly highly visible, although In a group fight its easy to miss for me atleast) on a mid/low armor target, I'm perfectly used to gunflame, CoR, even the odd 10k + Arc Divider. However some people are being hit for 17 -20k plus at long range, is that really what this game has become? and the excuses of well they are a bad pvp class compared to Daredevil or Vanilla so we just accept it makes no sense to me.

[jaif.3518]

Play a thief - it's way too much work setting up that one shot. You have to find the right target, too.

Mobile deadeye is the way to go.

-Jeff

[Chaba.5410]

@katniss.6735 said:I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

I suspect the majority of players haven't come across thieves who actually know how to pull this off. Ran across it myself earlier today. I had just come out of stealth roughly 5 seconds before his shot. He had gotten malice stacks off some ambient creature and there wasn't any tell for it.

[babazhook.6805]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@katniss.6735 said:I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

I suspect the majority of players haven't come across thieves who actually know how to pull this off. Ran across it myself earlier today. I had just come out of stealth roughly 5 seconds before his shot. He had gotten malice stacks off some ambient creature and there wasn't any tell for it.

Malice only stacks against the "marked " target. Once you change the target to another the malice resets to zero.

[Chaba.5410]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@katniss.6735 said:I guess you guys don't know how to play your thieves, because a thief can be right beside you and fire this without anything to show up as you're describing. You see the thief too late in this situation. I was rezzing someone when I was insta'd. The 1500 range one is easy to get away with, too, because it can just be another skill firing toward you amongst the other million people attacking your team. The damage is extremely high.

I suspect the majority of players haven't come across thieves who actually know how to pull this off. Ran across it myself earlier today. I had just come out of stealth roughly 5 seconds before his shot. He had gotten malice stacks off some ambient creature and there wasn't any tell for it.

Malice only stacks against the "marked " target. Once you change the target to another the malice resets to zero.

Do you mean it resets when you change your mark? That's not what I meant. You can mark an ambient creature and get malice stacks then hit another target without changing the mark. Works even if you mark a wall as a target.

[MedievalThings.5417]

The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

[devastoscz.9851]

I have a question, is there a way to trait for that skill to shoot twice without cooldown or something?I was at North Camp just now and got hit with it twice in around ~1 second. (Notice the single regen tick)

[Solori.6025]

@Strages.2950 said:I have a question, is there a way to trait for that skill to shoot twice without cooldown or something?I was at North Camp just now and got hit with it twice in around ~1 second. (Notice the single regen tick)

The skill has no CD, it's a thiefThey can shoot two back to back before needing to move because they are out of ini

[Chaba.5410]

@Ubi.4136 said:The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

Yes, it seems bugged to me. AFAIK it only works with Deaths Judgement. Pretty sure it isn't intended that a wall can be marked to build malice stacks with either. This reminds me of necros being able to use Epidemic off an oil pot in the past.

[Chaba.5410]

@Strages.2950 said:I have a question, is there a way to trait for that skill to shoot twice without cooldown or something?I was at North Camp just now and got hit with it twice in around ~1 second. (Notice the single regen tick)

Yep, that's the same player and same location a few of us came across him at. LOL.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

Yes, it seems bugged to me. AFAIK it only works with Deaths Judgement. Pretty sure it isn't intended that a wall can be marked to build malice stacks with either. This reminds me of necros being able to use Epidemic off an oil pot in the past.Ah well

that

explains the times I've seen the mark go ping and then less than a second later get hit for 25-30K damage.

[Cirrion.8951]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

Yes, it seems bugged to me. AFAIK it only works with Deaths Judgement. Pretty sure it isn't intended that a wall can be marked to build malice stacks with either. This reminds me of necros being able to use Epidemic off an oil pot in the past.Ah well

that

explains the times I've seen the mark go ping and then less than a second later get hit for 25-30K damage.

No really. If the DE has built up malice against an ambient or a wall they'd lose it as soon as they mark you. In order to use this trick they have to not mark you. Marking you would reset their malice.

[Flarre.4850]

@Cirrion.8951 said:No really. If the DE has built up malice against an ambient or a wall they'd lose it as soon as they mark you. In order to use this trick they have to not mark you. Marking you would reset their malice.

Why mark him if your are full of malICE with an ambiant creature or wall?The DE damage modifier work with malice so you don't have to care about who is marked.

[Khaliel.3918]

trailblazer necrowould probably kill that zerker/marauder DE in seconds if got next to himcomplaining about 17k damage that needs more than 20s setup (~850 damage per second)This is glorious. hahahaha

[icecreamsupernova.8956]

@Alehin.3746 said:

trailblazer necrowould probably kill that zerker/marauder DE in seconds if got next to himcomplaining about 17k damage that needs more than 20s setup (~850 damage per second)This is glorious. hahahaha

I am atrocious on thief and even I can beat a trailblazer necro easily with a bit of kiting. Sure if you just stand there you are gonna get condi bombed in a few seconds. I am not saying that condi damage isnt broken because it is, but thats a seperate issue. Other people on here are getting hit for 20k+