The imbalance of balance changes

[Astralporing.1957]

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.

and yet both of those classes, especially Renegade, had multiple meta builds and slots in raids and were taken as dps. As far as 5 Renegades on Dhuum for example.

Read what was written:Chrono did not prevent other classes to get taken.

You added the distinction of boons.

I would counter argue that by saying:The ease and efficiency of Chrono allowed a lot more classes access as dps to raids.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.

and yet both of those classes, especially Renegade, had multiple meta builds and slots in raids and were taken as dps. As far as 5 Renegades on Dhuum for example.

Read what was written:Chrono did not prevent other classes to get taken.

You added the distinction of boons.

I would counter argue that by saying:The ease and efficiency of Chrono allowed a lot more classes access as dps to raids.

I'm being specific to role. Which is the reason Chrono got changed.I seldom agree with Obtena's views on things but on this matter I wholeheartedly agree.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.

and yet both of those classes, especially Renegade, had multiple meta builds and slots in raids and were taken as dps. As far as 5 Renegades on Dhuum for example.

Read what was written:Chrono did not prevent other classes to get taken.

You added the distinction of boons.

I would counter argue that by saying:The ease and efficiency of Chrono allowed a lot more classes access as dps to raids.

I'm being specific to role. Which is the reason Chrono got changed.

and I was specific to what was stated and ease of entry to raids.

Given how lacking role establishment in this game is, balancing around roles is flacky at best.

UNLESS Arenanet finally puts in place actual roles and starts balancing around that. Which I did mention yesterday in a different thread as requirement to stop this complete 0-100 shake up with each patch.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.So, exactly like it happens with FB in WvW? It literally dominates support role there, up to the point that other support options are not taken to squads for their support. They are taken at best to pad the numbers and do dps, but only if you lack the players. And often they aren't being taken at all.

The more inclusive WvW squads aren't the equivalent of raid groups. They are moer like PvE open world zergs (and in those literally any build is okay).

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.So, exactly like it happens with FB in WvW? It literally dominates support role there, up to the point that other support options are not taken to squads for their support. They are taken at best to pad the numbers and do dps, but only if you lack the players. And often they aren't being taken at all.

The more inclusive WvW squads aren't the equivalent of raid groups. They are moer like PvE open world zergs (and in those literally any build is okay).

So FB should be balanced for WvW if its being so dominate.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Morte de Angelis.7986 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Warscythes.9307" said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.So, exactly like it happens with FB in WvW? It literally dominates support role there, up to the point that other support options are not taken to squads for their support. They are taken at best to pad the numbers and do dps, but only if you lack the players. And often they aren't being taken at all.

The more inclusive WvW squads aren't the equivalent of raid groups. They are moer like PvE open world zergs (and in those literally any build is okay).

So FB should be balanced for WvW if its being so dominate.Chrono got "balanced" for all modes. So if we follow the very same train of thought, FB should be "balanced" down in all modes until it's no longer the best option in wvw. And considering how massively it overpowers all the competition, that means a really massive nerf.

I don't really think we should do it, but neither i do agree that chrono should keep being nerfed over and over again just because some fb players think they want to be best in raids as well.

[Grogba.6204]

Chrono was able to keep up every boon for rediculous uptimes

The funny thing is that nobody liked that change from the prior patch when Anet killed the minor SoI and gave us the traitable 10 player SoI and longer base duration of every boon which in return made Bountiful Disillusionment absolutely nuts. That change alone made playing Chrono in a party of five really annoying to play while making the class even better in a raid scenario, cementing the status quo.

And now they "balanced" SoI again my making it more annoying to use but still mandatory to the point where multiple DPS Chronos look more and more interesting considering the flat share on the new SoI. And why? Because the endgame is still build around 100% Alacrity, Fury, Might, Quickness, etc. uptime which was the main problem all along because Chrono was and still is the most efficient at sharing Alacrity and Quickness given the opportunity cost involved.

The nerf to Sigil of Humiliation is also highly questionable and hits core Mesmer and Mirage harder than Chrono (which might have been the goal, who knows). They had the opportunity to nerf it 3 years ago when they first nerfed Moa for PvP/WvW but left it as it is in PvE for no particular reason. Was Moa +Tides of Times too powerful for depleting breakbars? Certainly. But beforehand there was a choice between Moa and Gravity Well and now Moa is just terrible, given the cooldown/CC ratio it has. :Shrug:

Baseline is that Anet themselves seem to have absolutely no idea how to balance chrono and the endgame they created.

[Nepster.4275]

Baseline is that Anet themselves seem to have absolutely no idea how to balance chrono and the endgame they created.

Not just chrono, almost all the classes.Even if they find the skill that causes the imbalance they nerf something irrelevant on that(See Axe 3 nerfs).

Other supports are not taken because they are NOT good enough to fulfill the needs of a raid party.This was ANet and the balance team´s problem, not the chrono´s. Like who even said that no one can take FB+Rev? No one. But now that you can take them they are making the whole squad weaker than if you take the nuked chrono, mostly because no aegis/stab on demand, and some other boons that correspond with certain traits on classes.FB is a good if not the best support in sPvP and small roams for WvW, Rev is a topdps condi spec with team utility, why everyone wants to take their main classes to everywhere? Thats like i play power mirage in sPvP and i want to take it in raids too as a power DPS... Like why??? Every class has its own things that no other class can do, mesmer shared all boons, FB was the king support of PvPs, Rev is a perfect DPS class, dont take them as supports or if you really want it that much, do it for your own fun and dont cry about how weak they are.Chrono is still fine, but not as strong as it was.Its basically a broken meta now because of the missing boons.

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Morte de Angelis.7986 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Warscythes.9307" said:As for WvW, sure FB/Scourge remains overpowered. I don't really disagree, what I don't see is that they are so strong that makes squads not take other classes.Chronos also do not make squads not take other classes.

This isn't true.Okay, name one class that isn't taken due to chronos.

Any class that had anything boon centric. Firebrands and Renegades to name a few. You would NEVER consider tanking either of these two, or any class that generates boons, as long as the previous iteration of Chrono existed in the game. It covered it all and that was the problem. It would also limit future design space because why design iteresting class changes or specs when chrono forces them out by being the one stop shop for anything they could do combined.

It quite literally dominated the support role.So, exactly like it happens with FB in WvW? It literally dominates support role there, up to the point that other support options are not taken to squads for their support. They are taken at best to pad the numbers and do dps, but only if you lack the players. And often they aren't being taken at all.

The more inclusive WvW squads aren't the equivalent of raid groups. They are moer like PvE open world zergs (and in those literally any build is okay).

So FB should be balanced for WvW if its being so dominate.Chrono got "balanced" for all modes. So if we follow the very same train of thought, FB should be "balanced" down in all modes until it's no longer the best option in wvw. And considering how massively it overpowers all the competition, that means a really massive nerf.

I don't really think we should do it, but neither i do agree that chrono should keep being nerfed over and over again just because some fb players think they want to be best in raids as well.

and I don't think Chrono's should be able to do everything with the help of no one.I don't want FB to be the best in raids, I just want it as viable alternative that has a niche where it's more optimal in some situations but not relegated to the bench because one class is god tier.

I do not play WvW so I cannot comment nor provide any possible solution to the FB problem in WvW. If it is overshadowing other supports then yes, it should be nerfed. Ideally without neutering it in other game modes like this change has done to Chrono. There were other ways Anet could of done this and this was very heavy handed. I still don't understand why they changed SoI from just copying everything on the Mesmer to everyone else to gives 5 secs of every boon thats on you and ultimatly I feel that lead to the spot its in today.

Would I like FB to be god tier? Hell yeah it would be amazingDo I think its a good idea? Hell no, Replacing one class for another changes nothing other then the coat of paint.But just because I like FB and would like to play FB in the position of Chrono doesn't mean that I wanted Chrono to be nerfed into the ground. It needed a nerf, but this was too far.Its possible to like something and not want to ruin everyone else's fun.

I'd rather have balance between classes and everyone had fun then one class overshadow everything else and no one have fun.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

ANet releases a patch, intending to put things in balance. Even if they succeeded 100%, creative players figure out how to eke out higher performance out of particular traits, synergies, and rotations, and that spreads. The game is no longer balanced. This isn't something that is "one & done;" it's an evolving process that never has a conclusion.

It's like trying to say that all radio stations or streams should play the same music all the time, even though listener tastes change. It's like people asking why Hollywood makes more movies, when there are already so many movies out there that not even film critics have seen them all.

nail down their rotations, get the best gear possible, and learn all they can about their classes. But it feels like once a month we have to completely start over again.That's a very pessimistic way to look at it, when it's very, very rare for the old rotations and old gear to become outdated. While it's true that Snowcrow is going to update their benchmark builds frequently, it's not true that every player should do so. At the level that SC plays, every bit of DPS and support and control matters. For most people in fractals & raids, that's not true.

This most recent nerf of mesmer is one of the few times that updating is critical, but then only for groups that used to have strong chronos. In fractals, there will be more efficient ways to spit out boons. Although, as always, largely power DPS can stick with zerk+scholar's (with the main change recently in replacing air sigils with slayer or impact).

It's hard to say if this is ultimately best for the game or the community. ANet thinks so, otherwise they wouldn't spend so much effort on it, risk our wrath (which is always vicious, no matter what they change: too much, too little; never just right for everyone).

In the end, I don't really care. I'll read what smart, creative people have to say about how they use the updated skills/traits/gear and I'll adapt. I don't expect things to remain the same, so I don't tilt when there's a distruption.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

[yann.1946]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Why don't you consider druid a pure support build? Just really curious about that.

And would you leave even if chrono remains viable although not Mera?

[Cyninja.2954]

@yann.1946 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Why don't you consider druid a pure support build? Just really curious about that.

And would you leave even if chrono remains viable although not Mera?

Heal druid was a pure support build, but rather as healer, not in the role as pure boon support. Hence druids boons while important were less and not as significant as say alacrity and quickness. Druid lives off of its massive utility.

This is not about leaving, it's about dissonance in balance between classes and expectations. People want hybrid builds to perform just as good as pure support builds. I have no problem with say Firebrand providing 100% quickness AND alacrity while bringing the same amount of damage as say a chrono.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@yann.1946 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Why don't you consider druid a pure support build? Just really curious about that.

And would you leave even if chrono remains viable although not Mera?

From my experiance druid plays more like banner warrior then true support. Most of the time you just pop spirits go to avatar when is ready. Most of druids support comes from healing and healing works diferently then support

If you are in better party you need to heal less but you need to support same or more because players count on your support. If there woukd be high preasure fights that need healer actualy for big heals for any group then I would definitly say it is a support spec like chrono. But then another healer would take its place.

For me pure support spec is something where you need to make choices based on situation and most of the time only choice druids have is to go to avatar few seconds later. Obviously there is more but I generelised it alittle.

[yann.1946]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Why don't you consider druid a pure support build? Just really curious about that.

And would you leave even if chrono remains viable although not Mera?

Heal druid was a pure support build, but rather as healer, not in the role as pure boon support. Hence druids boons while important were less and not as significant as say alacrity and quickness. Druid lives off of its massive utility.

This is not about leaving, it's about dissonance in balance between classes and expectations. People want hybrid builds to perform just as good as pure support builds. I have no problem with say Firebrand providing 100% quickness AND alacrity while bringing the same amount of damage as say a chrono.

On that I agree. I was just wondering because he stated their where no other pure support builds which I found a weird statement.

Edit : I don't agree that fb should give the same boons as chrono tho.

[yann.1946]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@yann.1946 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Why don't you consider druid a pure support build? Just really curious about that.

And would you leave even if chrono remains viable although not Mera?

From my experiance druid plays more like banner warrior then true support. Most of the time you just pop spirits go to avatar when is ready. Most of druids support comes from healing and healing works diferently then support

If you are in better party you need to heal less but you need to support same or more because players count on your support. If there woukd be high preasure fights that need healer actualy for big heals for any group then I would definitly say it is a support spec like chrono. But then another healer would take its place.

For me pure support spec is something where you need to make choices based on situation and most of the time only choice druids have is to go to avatar few seconds later. Obviously there is more but I generelised it alittle.

Allow me to disagree in the sense that jou don't have to make choices. When to entangle/push/pull etc

[phs.6089]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Mercy Scourge? Harrier Rene? There are several full support classes and builds to play. The fact that your main isn't the top anymore hurts, I know.But making ultimate decisions are not the way to go.

BTW Commander crono does more damage then any hybrid FB

[Emberheart.8426]

I am by no means an expert in raiding, but as said previously in this thread buffing FB will make it even more ridiculous in WvW. I think that Anet really needs to decide what they want FB to be. Is it supposed to be a boon support or a healer? Healers can give boons for sure, but FB already gives too many good boons for the amount of healing that it provides, and that is the main reason why other supports are unwanted in WvW. If FB get equivalent boon support to the chronomancer in PvE, then I think that it will be flat out better because of the potential for better healing.

If Anet toned down the healing and made the boon support of FB better, then I believe that chronomancer would have more competition in PvE and there would be more room for other healers in WvW. With low FB healing, you would require other healers to pick up the slack. You could also afford to take less FBs because now they would provide even better boon coverage. If Anet don't do this then the only alternative is to make all supports both good healers and good at boons simultaneously. This would mean that chrono healing needs buffing, FB boons need buffing, tempest boons need way more buffing etc.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@phs.6089 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Mercy Scourge? Harrier Rene? There are several full support classes and builds to play. The fact that your main isn't the top anymore hurts, I know.But making ultimate decisions are not the way to go.

BTW Commander crono does more damage then any hybrid FB

Mercy scourge and harrier chrono are what i call defensive supports. They bring safety but not speed. I will correct myself then. There is only one pure offensive support.

Edit: And I guess playing defensive supports would be fun for me if there was a fight where nit only would such build be needed but also if only peek performance would save your squad.

[Astralporing.1957]

@yann.1946 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Why don't you consider druid a pure support build? Just really curious about that.Druid is a healer/support hybrid. Personally, i consider healers to be significantly different type of support, distinct enough to not be bundled with the rest. The gameplay is different enough that players that might like to play support may not like playing healers.

[Cyninja.2954]

@phs.6089 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Chrono used to be only pure support build. I wanted to play pure support build, that is why I played chrono. If firebrand becomes meta I will stop raiding simply because firebrand is not pure support spec but dps/support hybrid. I think the changes are not that bad. What I dont like is that right now, chronomancers performance is related to your teamates performance. If they move out of the stack for few seconds they might lose boons for many seconds with no way to reaply them. If there was a trait that would give 1 second quickness and alacrity after casting signet then everything would be fine. Right now there is no problem gameplaywise but the class is frustrating to play.

Mercy Scourge? Harrier Rene? There are several full support classes and builds to play. The fact that your main isn't the top anymore hurts, I know.But making ultimate decisions are not the way to go.

BTW Commander crono does more damage then any hybrid FB

Are we talking about pre or post patch? Since your statement about commander chrono doing more damage when getting played as support is plain incorrect (in both cases only that post patch Firebrand is even more ahead).

Unless we are talking heal Firebrand, in which case Firebrand puts out massive amounts of Aegis, Healing AND Quickness.

You really want to go down that road of comparison? Because I guarantee you that the only thing you are going to realize is how overpowered FB is and was. The only reason it was not viewed as such was because chrono still outperformed it in its niche role for raids (not even fractals) while FB dominated other game modes already (see WvW).