Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 @IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol.The forum rules require that in responding, we focus on the post, not the poster. There is no need to evaluate a poster to evaluate the post. Showing account status via AP or time-in-game would be a sign that ANet was moving towards evaluating posters, not posts.Also, there is a major difference between showing AP/Time-in-Game versus helpful and thumbs up ratings. AP/Time is not an interactive system. Helpful and thumbs up are. Giving one or the other to a post is a form of feedback. There is no such component to your proposal. How is ap and time in game not interactive? You can increase both by actually playing the game, which is a way more important credential to have in regards to a forum with a specific focus of said game lol.Way more important then getting a ton of thumbs up and helpfuls, boosted by your friends, by posting one liners and having everyone else bandwagon the like button. As suspect, from what I've read, most who are against it have low in game time played or low ap for whatever reason. I don't see why having more information available to users about other users is a bad thing. Why not just display everything, in game time, achievement points, likes, helpfuls and badges next to everyones name in every post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol.The forum rules require that in responding, we focus on the post, not the poster. There is no need to evaluate a poster to evaluate the post. Showing account status via AP or time-in-game would be a sign that ANet was moving towards evaluating posters, not posts.Also, there is a major difference between showing AP/Time-in-Game versus helpful and thumbs up ratings. AP/Time is not an interactive system. Helpful and thumbs up are. Giving one or the other to a post is a form of feedback. There is no such component to your proposal. How is ap and time in game not interactive? You can increase both by actually playing the game, which is a way more important credential to have in regards to a forum with a specific focus of said game lol.OK, assuming Anet posts time-in-game on the forums. When I see yours, how do I interact with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 @IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol.The forum rules require that in responding, we focus on the post, not the poster. There is no need to evaluate a poster to evaluate the post. Showing account status via AP or time-in-game would be a sign that ANet was moving towards evaluating posters, not posts.Also, there is a major difference between showing AP/Time-in-Game versus helpful and thumbs up ratings. AP/Time is not an interactive system. Helpful and thumbs up are. Giving one or the other to a post is a form of feedback. There is no such component to your proposal. How is ap and time in game not interactive? You can increase both by actually playing the game, which is a way more important credential to have in regards to a forum with a specific focus of said game lol.OK, assuming Anet posts time-in-game on the forums. When I see yours, how do I interact with it?Stare at it, and then in your head, marvel at how many AP, and how much playtime I have between gw2 and gw1 and then assume I must know what I'm talking about or assume whatever you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhunter.6015 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol.The forum rules require that in responding, we focus on the post, not the poster. There is no need to evaluate a poster to evaluate the post. Showing account status via AP or time-in-game would be a sign that ANet was moving towards evaluating posters, not posts.Also, there is a major difference between showing AP/Time-in-Game versus helpful and thumbs up ratings. AP/Time is not an interactive system. Helpful and thumbs up are. Giving one or the other to a post is a form of feedback. There is no such component to your proposal. How is ap and time in game not interactive? You can increase both by actually playing the game, which is a way more important credential to have in regards to a forum with a specific focus of said game lol.OK, assuming Anet posts time-in-game on the forums. When I see yours, how do I interact with it?Stare at it, and then in your head, marvel at how many AP, and how much playtime I have between gw2 and gw1 and then assume I must know what I'm talking about or assume whatever you like.Nope still not impressed, no matter how long you have played. You still are no expert nor do you even take criticism well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Can we also get pvp ranks to show next to ppl's name in the pvp subforum and wvw hours in the wvw one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 @zealex.9410 said:Can we also get pvp ranks to show next to ppl's name in the pvp subforum and wvw hours in the wvw one?Yah I'd be ok with that since I'm 2x spvp legend and have high wvw rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@zealex.9410 said:Can we also get pvp ranks to show next to ppl's name in the pvp subforum and wvw hours in the wvw one?Yah I'd be ok with that since I'm 2x spvp legend and have high wvw rank.Its all in the name of better visibility and knowing where feedback is comming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:As suspect, from what I've read, most who are against it have low in game time played or low ap for whatever reason.Recognizing a lot of the posters, i wouldn't be so sure of it. There's defiitely a number of veterans against it.@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Stare at it, and then in your head, marvel at how many AP, and how much playtime I have between gw2 and gw1 and then assume I must know what I'm talking about or assume whatever you like....why would i assume you know what you're talking about? I have seen your previous threads, and i'm not really impressed. And knowing you're a veteran would not improve my take on them in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Stare at it, and then in your head, marvel at how many AP, and how much playtime I have between gw2 and gw1 and then assume I must know what I'm talking about or assume whatever you like.Judging by your posts, if I see your AP/playtime I'll still say you don't know what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holykitten.3064 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @zealex.9410 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@zealex.9410 said:Can we also get pvp ranks to show next to ppl's name in the pvp subforum and wvw hours in the wvw one?Yah I'd be ok with that since I'm 2x spvp legend and have high wvw rank.Its all in the name of better visibility and knowing where feedback is comming from.This can be achieved by the OP by putting a gw2efficiency link into your signature, like I suggested in my first comment to this thread. I haven’t seen this link yet to show the OPs superiority over everyone. Being able to see this would still not add weight to any suggestions or foresight from the OP, because, I atleast, as well as many other commenters in this thread, judge a suggestion based on the arguments in the post itself. Newer players can have pretty solid ideas, and veterans can have monumentally silly ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Haleydawn.3764 said:@zealex.9410 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@zealex.9410 said:Can we also get pvp ranks to show next to ppl's name in the pvp subforum and wvw hours in the wvw one?Yah I'd be ok with that since I'm 2x spvp legend and have high wvw rank.Its all in the name of better visibility and knowing where feedback is comming from.This can be achieved by the OP by putting a gw2efficiency link into your signature, like I suggested in my first comment to this thread. I haven’t seen this link yet to show the OPs superiority over everyone. Being able to see this would still not add weight to any suggestions or foresight from the OP, because, I atleast, as well as many other commenters in this thread, judge a suggestion based on the arguments in the post itself. Newer players can have pretty solid ideas, and veterans can have monumentally silly ones. The gw2 eff link is just one page with too much info to look for the one thing you care about and is optional. Optional doesnt help. Also this isnt a superiority contest or an epeen comparison the point is to see where suggestions are comming from."judge a suggestion based on the arguements" ppl rarely make good arguements or arguements at all, more often than not is simple size of complains that push forward changes and not for the better."new players can have good suggestions and veterans can have bad ones" yes but this is the exception and not the rule. It is more likely that a veteran understands better what hes/shes talking about, knows more about the mechanics of the game and of the subject in specific they talk about.To that extend at least identifying where feedback comes from goes a long way to understand the situation better on the side of the developers.You can have 300 ppl asking for mirage to be nerfed without suggestions and or speciffic when in reality these ppl have little idea how mirage/the game works and how they can play around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Boysenberry.1869 said:I feel that something like this would cause immense bias in the opposite direction. People with less hours suddenly would have their opinions completely invalidated purely on the basis of fewer hours played than someone else.Not to mention it would not be too useful. Just because you have, oh, 500 hours that does not say what those 500 hours were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @zealex.9410 said:@Haleydawn.3764 said:@zealex.9410 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@zealex.9410 said:Can we also get pvp ranks to show next to ppl's name in the pvp subforum and wvw hours in the wvw one?Yah I'd be ok with that since I'm 2x spvp legend and have high wvw rank.Its all in the name of better visibility and knowing where feedback is comming from.This can be achieved by the OP by putting a gw2efficiency link into your signature, like I suggested in my first comment to this thread. I haven’t seen this link yet to show the OPs superiority over everyone. Being able to see this would still not add weight to any suggestions or foresight from the OP, because, I atleast, as well as many other commenters in this thread, judge a suggestion based on the arguments in the post itself. Newer players can have pretty solid ideas, and veterans can have monumentally silly ones. The gw2 eff link is just one page with too much info to look for the one thing you care about and is optional. Optional doesnt help. Also this isnt a superiority contest or an kitten comparison the point is to see where suggestions are comming from."judge a suggestion based on the arguements" ppl rarely make good arguements or arguements at all, more often than not is simple size of complains that push forward changes and not for the better."new players can have good suggestions and veterans can have bad ones" yes but this is the exception and not the rule. It is more likely that a veteran understands better what hes/shes talking about, knows more about the mechanics of the game and of the subject in specific they talk about.To that extend at least identifying where feedback comes from goes a long way to understand the situation better on the side of the developers.You can have 300 ppl asking for mirage to be nerfed without suggestions and or speciffic when in reality these ppl have little idea how mirage/the game works and how they can play around it.To me the fact that people rarely make a good argument in favour of their point is a separate problem, which could also use improvement. But this suggestion could actually make that problem worse as apparently a few people on the forum would expect their time logged in to back up their argument and may therefore feel that they don't need to even try and explain themselves or provide any detail because it should be self-evident that whatever they want is right. (Unless, I assume, someone with a higher time count disagrees.)And again time played isn't really a relevant measure of what the person knows. I've got over 5,000 hours in game across more than 6 years, and in that time I've played about 9 PvP matches, all of which were years ago. If I pick up PvP again, get frustrated and go into that section of the forum complaining about certain professions or mechanics this system could create the false impression that I'm speaking from experience and give undue weight to my post/s. In that case wouldn't it be better to look at what I'm actually saying and realise from that I'm talking nonsense than assume based on an unrelated number that I must be right and try to figure out how it makes sense? (Or in my case it's possible someone might remember my other posts on this forum and say "hang on a minute, a week ago you were telling us (again) that you never play PvP, what makes you think you know all about it now?")And if they don't explain their idea you can always prompt them to do it. Ask why they think mesmers need to be nerfed? Maybe give them some hints in the right direction - ask whether they literally mean everything about the mirage spec needs to be made weaker in all game modes - every skill having it's damage reduced, buff and condition time shortened, traits changed to remove some effects etc. or if they had something more specific in mind. If they don't explain then you can let them know the chances of Anet listening to such a vague and extreme request are slightly less than zero, and if they do explain you can then access whether their idea has any merit.(All of which is of course assuming you want to find out more about this person's suggestion and/or help them make a good case for it. If you think it's not worth the hassle to try and get some sense out of them then don't. No one is required to be here (except Gaile) or to read or respond to topics.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 BTW, note that accounts after the first one get locked out of the forum anyway. Which means if you have gadzillions of hours on your main but the first time you posted was with an alt you only have for login rewards not only do hours on your main not show but you could only rectify that (ie, post from your main) if you got somebody to change which account you can post from.I have argued with newbies. I have argued with long time posters. What matters to me is the IDEA, not how many hours a person has or even their posting history (although the second part helps if I notice who I am replying to and recognize the name). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@IndigoSundown.5419 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol.The forum rules require that in responding, we focus on the post, not the poster. There is no need to evaluate a poster to evaluate the post. Showing account status via AP or time-in-game would be a sign that ANet was moving towards evaluating posters, not posts.Also, there is a major difference between showing AP/Time-in-Game versus helpful and thumbs up ratings. AP/Time is not an interactive system. Helpful and thumbs up are. Giving one or the other to a post is a form of feedback. There is no such component to your proposal. How is ap and time in game not interactive? You can increase both by actually playing the game, which is a way more important credential to have in regards to a forum with a specific focus of said game lol.OK, assuming Anet posts time-in-game on the forums. When I see yours, how do I interact with it?Stare at it, and then in your head, marvel at how many AP, and how much playtime I have between gw2 and gw1 and then assume I must know what I'm talking about or assume whatever you like.Not sure you will like what I assume whenever someone brags about how many hours they have on something. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Danikat.8537 said:@zealex.9410 said:@Haleydawn.3764 said:@zealex.9410 said:@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:@zealex.9410 said:Can we also get pvp ranks to show next to ppl's name in the pvp subforum and wvw hours in the wvw one?Yah I'd be ok with that since I'm 2x spvp legend and have high wvw rank.Its all in the name of better visibility and knowing where feedback is comming from.This can be achieved by the OP by putting a gw2efficiency link into your signature, like I suggested in my first comment to this thread. I haven’t seen this link yet to show the OPs superiority over everyone. Being able to see this would still not add weight to any suggestions or foresight from the OP, because, I atleast, as well as many other commenters in this thread, judge a suggestion based on the arguments in the post itself. Newer players can have pretty solid ideas, and veterans can have monumentally silly ones. The gw2 eff link is just one page with too much info to look for the one thing you care about and is optional. Optional doesnt help. Also this isnt a superiority contest or an kitten comparison the point is to see where suggestions are comming from."judge a suggestion based on the arguements" ppl rarely make good arguements or arguements at all, more often than not is simple size of complains that push forward changes and not for the better."new players can have good suggestions and veterans can have bad ones" yes but this is the exception and not the rule. It is more likely that a veteran understands better what hes/shes talking about, knows more about the mechanics of the game and of the subject in specific they talk about.To that extend at least identifying where feedback comes from goes a long way to understand the situation better on the side of the developers.You can have 300 ppl asking for mirage to be nerfed without suggestions and or speciffic when in reality these ppl have little idea how mirage/the game works and how they can play around it.To me the fact that people rarely make a good argument in favour of their point is a separate problem, which could also use improvement. But this suggestion could actually make that problem worse as apparently a few people on the forum would expect their time logged in to back up their argument and may therefore feel that they don't need to even try and explain themselves or provide any detail because it should be self-evident that whatever they want is right. (Unless, I assume, someone with a higher time count disagrees.)The point isnt to get ppl to just say oh something needs nerf and just relly on their time played to justify it. The point is if you want to say "x thing is bad" or "y thing is good" you make your feedback post explaining the thing u want to explain and the time played/ pvp rank etc are only there to showcase where the feedback is comming.Simply backing up your comments on some arbitrary stat wont work but if it goes along with actuall feeback it can give oter readers and esp the devs a better understanding.And again time played isn't really a relevant measure of what the person knows. I've got over 5,000 hours in game across more than 6 years, and in that time I've played about 9 PvP matches, all of which were years ago. If I pick up PvP again, get frustrated and go into that section of the forum complaining about certain professions or mechanics this system could create the false impression that I'm speaking from experience and give undue weight to my post/s. In that case wouldn't it be better to look at what I'm actually saying and realise from that I'm talking nonsense than assume based on an unrelated number that I must be right and try to figure out how it makes sense? (Or in my case it's possible someone might remember my other posts on this forum and say "hang on a minute, a week ago you were telling us (again) that you never play PvP, what makes you think you know all about it now?")But again time played is one of many things u could have and very broad to mean anything. Instead each forum section could specialise between things like exclusive time played in wvw or inside raids/fractals/pvp. Any sort of visual indicator of familiarity with a system like li in raids or your pvp league icon for pvp.General played time across all modes is too broad and end up being useless for all of them.And if they don't explain their idea you can always prompt them to do it. Ask why they think mesmers need to be nerfed? Maybe give them some hints in the right direction - ask whether they literally mean everything about the mirage spec needs to be made weaker in all game modes - every skill having it's damage reduced, buff and condition time shortened, traits changed to remove some effects etc. or if they had something more specific in mind. If they don't explain then you can let them know the chances of Anet listening to such a vague and extreme request are slightly less than zero, and if they do explain you can then access whether their idea has any merit.Should a dev have to go through the answers and ask ppl to give their feedback and then go back and try to find what rank and skill lvl that player is from? We have threads that showcase what good feedback looks like and devs have plently on their hands between working on new stuff trying, to juggle through oceans of "feedback" and balance the existing stuff.The more information they have right then and there the more efficient they can be. Ofc there sort of tools for that but only apply to minorities and are outside the forums where the vast majority reside.(All of which is of course assuming you want to find out more about this person's suggestion and/or help them make a good case for it. If you think it's not worth the hassle to try and get some sense out of them then don't. No one is required to be here (except Gaile) or to read or respond to topics.)In general, if a dev wants to nerf warrior (example)(a sensible devs at least imo) they will look for what is wrong with warrior for the diff modes and skill lvls and how they can change the class for each mode and skill lvl to make sure ppl and modes that dont matter or skill lvls that dont have a problem wont get screwed in the process. To that extend being able to identify who could be more likely versed with the game and more skilled at the class will help them filter the feedback better.A dev might look at ppl complaining that warrior is oppresive, if they can see ranks they can get a better idea of in what skill lvl warrior is oppressive and then can look fom feedback on that skill lvl or of the highest skill lvl on how to proceed with balancing warriorSimilarly a player of a higher or lower skill or engagement lvl can get a better picture looking at these post and the ppl that post them and offer support or counter arguements accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @"zealex.9410" said:The point isnt to get ppl to just say oh something needs nerf and just relly on their time played to justify it. The point is if you want to say "x thing is bad" or "y thing is good" you make your feedback post explaining the thing u want to explain and the time played/ pvp rank etc are only there to showcase where the feedback is comming.Simply backing up your comments on some arbitrary stat wont work but if it goes along with actuall feeback it can give oter readers and esp the devs a better understanding.If the content of the post makes sense, the posters' pedigree is (or ought to be) irrelevant. Showing pedigree can serve as a bolster to a weak argument in cases where readers' allow their judgement to be swayed by pedigree. The potential for negative consequences for discourse far outweighs any possible benefits for reasoned, rationale discourse.When I see a post in which the poster claims authority based on time-in-game, my first thought is, "Better read this with care, he thinks his argument needs that kind of support." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @zealex.9410 said:Should a dev have to go through the answers and ask ppl to give their feedback and then go back and try to find what rank and skill lvl that player is from?If they want any reasonable info on the background of posters, then yes. They would need far more than merely hours played, or even pvp rank for that after all (like hours played on each class, results on each class, etc - the whole pvp history basically). I don't think having all that relevant info be available on the forums is reasonable. If you wanted to include such info for each gamemode/submode, the account info page would get inflated by several pages of data. Forget about even thinking of having this visible near posts in the actual threads.The more information they have right then and there the more efficient they can be. Ofc there sort of tools for that but only apply to minorities and are outside the forums where the vast majority reside.They already have all that info (and more) if they want it. No need for them to put it in forums.In general, if a dev wants to nerf warrior (example)(a sensible devs at least imo) they will look for what is wrong with warrior for the diff modes and skill lvls and how they can change the class for each mode and skill lvl to make sure ppl and modes that dont matter or skill lvls that dont have a problem wont get screwed in the process. To that extend being able to identify who could be more likely versed with the game and more skilled at the class will help them filter the feedback better.OPs suggestion won't help them achieve that. Unless you want to make everyone's profile a clone of gw2eff.And of course most players would probably still want to keep all that info off the forums, so devs would need to run a database check anyway.A dev might look at ppl complaining that warrior is oppresive, if they can see ranks they can get a better idea of in what skill lvl warrior is oppressive and then can look fom feedback on that skill lvl or of the highest skill lvl on how to proceed with balancing warriorSimilarly a player of a higher or lower skill or engagement lvl can get a better picture looking at these post and the ppl that post them and offer support or counter arguements accordingly.And if they'll base their opinion on that, they can be easily misled. Because that poster with high playtime, lot of ap and a high pvp rank can easily be an semi-afk farmer sprouting bullkitten because they've been just rolled over by an average pvp player who was still more skilled and more knowledgeable than them. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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