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Is it time to end GW2?

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Klowdy.3126

Klowdy.3126

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@InvaGir.9158 said:Its not about elder dragons more powerful than the godsThe gods feared to fight them because they knew they probably didn't had a chance against them.

! If not for our intervention Balthazar could've defeated Kralk & PrimordusAlso Kralkatorrik powerful but not the most powerful.! We almost defeated him but he tricked us into thinking he was dead

Anyways the story is not over yet we still have to deal with more elder dragons threats and maybe more new bad guys like how the White Mantle and the Awakened showed up.

Tyria is never safe

Exactly. The gods were just aliens, that left. Who is to say there weren't gods for the gods, titans, if you will? Kralk is the most powerful being we know of, but if dragonball z has taught us anything, it's that there is always a more powerful being in the wide wide universe. I assumed after this dragon, some super powerful beings were going to come down and try to take the power of the dragons, and might even accomplish it in a few hours time, just to show how great they were. I dont forsee a problem with coming up with enemies.

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kta.6502

kta.6502

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@Balsa.3951 said:U never saw Dragonball? There is always a stronger enemy behind the corner.

I agree wholeheartedly with this! The whole Guild Wars 2 storyline has become a fantasy variation of Dragon Ball Z. It's cute! The story is becoming more epic with each chapter. :DTo the OP, I keep playing because of the community. No other game on the market has an awesome friendly community like this one. The Tarnished Coast WvW team is friendly, awesome, and helpful. I wish other games (like Destiny 2) had a community like this. In other games, I can't find a guild or any new friends to play with. Every time I log in to Guild Wars 2 and stream the game on Sunday nights, it feels as if I have come home. EBG is always full when I log on and people still do Saturday runs of the Heart of Thorns maps ('cause loot :D).

People leave and join online games all the time. People are currently leaving Overwatch and Destiny 2 for Apex Legends and Division 2. Years ago, some people left GW2 for Black Desert Online. Some players need a variety of games to play while other stick to one or two games. For every loss, we gain new players as long as we can keep up the community. :D

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Ryou.2398

Ryou.2398

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

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Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

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@Ryou.2398 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

So you're saying we should believe you? Financial statements are a matter of public record. Public companies tend not to falsify public records because it's against the law. If they did, why would they ever show a downturn in profits? This makes no sense.

What you're actually saying here is that you believe something is true so strongly that anything that refutes it, any evidence offered must be a lie, when in fact, you've offered no evidence of your own to support that you're saying, only your belief.

Believing you or the statement of profits of a public company? I'll go with the latter.

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Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

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@Ryou.2398 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

Actually, we do not know that. Yes, there is cases where companies lie. The vast majority of companies though are in compliance with their duties. Especially on matters so trivial as revenue of a game studio which makes up barely a tiny fraction of their total revenue. Even more so when those financial records support a narrative with results. In this case that CoH was closed due to low revenue.

You have not provided any more believable, valid, reasonable or logical evidence to the contrary so far. Besides claiming you know better and being absolutely immune to reason.

Given the alternatives of which facts one could believe: made up stories of an individual (who has not provided any proof of his claims) versus public financial records of a company, I'll go with the later. As will any other reasonable person with sane mind.

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Redavv.2643

Redavv.2643

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Guild wars is an excellent mmo in my opinion ofcourse they are people that want some areas to be more hardcore and i understand that. But i dont get why some people get angry for example that there is no gvg or this and that. In my opinion players can create their content if you want gvg organise one :D. if you want better wvw fights join a wvw guild and teamspeak etc etc etc. I have seen epic rants on twitch streams but overall a small percentage of players dont appreciate how good this game is and fair fom other titles and another small percentage of players dont want to work for nothing and want everything easy on the game.

Guild wars 2 is a good game to play easy on the eye and respects your time.

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Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

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Not that I want to see GW2 die, but a fresh start would be grand for getting some deep-set mistakes corrected:•Itemization and crafting. It's horrible in GW2. Inconsistent, opaque, and leaves us waiting for development to give us stats we wanted. New attributes, new customization options.•Decreasing gains in hard-CC. Granted, this could be fixed in GW2, but I don't see it working out, and that's just frustrating.•Opportunity for a fresh story. Smaller stakes, even less GW1 throwbacks. Because why trot out all of GW1 just to kill it in the span of one episode?

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Electra.7530

Electra.7530

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@"starhunter.6015" said:if you don't want to play then leave, kinda getting tired of all of the bad attitudes and doom and gloom from players about the layoffs.

This is a point well made of an extremely unprofessional situation that affected the player base. Layoffs happen in business. They should NOT be affecting clientele or player base. The fact that the employees of Anet got on here and delayed a delivery because they needed to "support their coworkers through this internal upheaval" leaked all over to the player base and delayed the delivery of a product to its clientele. That is bad, BAD business. That is not how you do business. That should NEVER have happened. It was the most unprofessional thing I have ever seen and I was disappointed in them for it. If the patch had to be delayed, they should NOT have posted the reason for it. They simply should have said they must delay the patch and apologize for the delay. That is good business.

I understand with social media now, routine and customary internal business solutions can no longer take place without affecting customers, players because individuals get on social media and SHOUT OUT to the WHOLE WORLD everything. This affects business. This affects customers. This is not good business practice.

No one likes to hear that anyone is going to lose their job. We can all empathize, but in the end, we are players playing a game we pay money for and support and we should not be put in a position of worrying and hand wringing over internal business situations. That is terrible business practice. When people lose jobs, it's unfortunate, but those types of talented people move on to other projects and other employment.

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Ryou.2398

Ryou.2398

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

Actually, we do not know that. Yes, there is cases where companies lie. The vast majority of companies though are in compliance with their duties. Especially on matters so trivial as revenue of a game studio which makes up barely a tiny fraction of their total revenue. Even more so when those financial records support a narrative with results. In this case that CoH was closed due to low revenue.

You have not provided any more believable, valid, reasonable or logical evidence to the contrary so far. Besides claiming you know better and being absolutely immune to reason.

Given the alternatives of which facts one could believe: made up stories of an individual (who has not provided any proof of his claims) versus public financial records of a company, I'll go with the later. As will any other reasonable person with sane mind.

I am not here to prove anything your the one who made these claims the burden of proof lies to you but I really do not care what you think I have a good idea of what happened and know the track record thats all that matters, your clear stretch to defend them speaks all the volumes for all to see. I have never needed validation from you or anyone else.

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Vayne.8563

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@Ryou.2398 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

Actually, we do not know that. Yes, there is cases where companies lie. The vast majority of companies though are in compliance with their duties. Especially on matters so trivial as revenue of a game studio which makes up barely a tiny fraction of their total revenue. Even more so when those financial records support a narrative with results. In this case that CoH was closed due to low revenue.

You have not provided any more believable, valid, reasonable or logical evidence to the contrary so far. Besides claiming you know better and being absolutely immune to reason.

Given the alternatives of which facts one could believe: made up stories of an individual (who has not provided any proof of his claims) versus public financial records of a company, I'll go with the later. As will any other reasonable person with sane mind.

I am not here to prove anything your the one who made these claims the burden of proof lies to you but I really do not care what you think I have a good idea of what happened and know the track record thats all that matters, your clear stretch to defend them speaks all the volumes for all to see. I have never needed validation from you or anyone else.

I made a statement which you refuted without proof. My statement HAS proof. Yours doesn't. It's pretty simple.

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Ryou.2398

Ryou.2398

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

Actually, we do not know that. Yes, there is cases where companies lie. The vast majority of companies though are in compliance with their duties. Especially on matters so trivial as revenue of a game studio which makes up barely a tiny fraction of their total revenue. Even more so when those financial records support a narrative with results. In this case that CoH was closed due to low revenue.

You have not provided any more believable, valid, reasonable or logical evidence to the contrary so far. Besides claiming you know better and being absolutely immune to reason.

Given the alternatives of which facts one could believe: made up stories of an individual (who has not provided any proof of his claims) versus public financial records of a company, I'll go with the later. As will any other reasonable person with sane mind.

I am not here to prove anything your the one who made these claims the burden of proof lies to you but I really do not care what you think I have a good idea of what happened and know the track record thats all that matters, your clear stretch to defend them speaks all the volumes for all to see. I have never needed validation from you or anyone else.

I made a statement which you refuted without proof. My statement HAS proof. Yours doesn't. It's pretty simple.

You are not the person I responded to, anyways actually you did not provide any real proof as pointed out several times, its beyond obvious you can no longer defend it its time to come up with another excuse/argument for your defense if you are this person under another profile anyway.

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Vayne.8563

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@Ryou.2398 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

Actually, we do not know that. Yes, there is cases where companies lie. The vast majority of companies though are in compliance with their duties. Especially on matters so trivial as revenue of a game studio which makes up barely a tiny fraction of their total revenue. Even more so when those financial records support a narrative with results. In this case that CoH was closed due to low revenue.

You have not provided any more believable, valid, reasonable or logical evidence to the contrary so far. Besides claiming you know better and being absolutely immune to reason.

Given the alternatives of which facts one could believe: made up stories of an individual (who has not provided any proof of his claims) versus public financial records of a company, I'll go with the later. As will any other reasonable person with sane mind.

I am not here to prove anything your the one who made these claims the burden of proof lies to you but I really do not care what you think I have a good idea of what happened and know the track record thats all that matters, your clear stretch to defend them speaks all the volumes for all to see. I have never needed validation from you or anyone else.

I made a statement which you refuted without proof. My statement HAS proof. Yours doesn't. It's pretty simple.

You are not the person I responded to, anyways actually you did not provide any real proof as pointed out several times, its beyond obvious you can no longer defend it its time to come up with another excuse/argument for your defense if you are this person under another profile anyway.

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

Actually, we do not know that. Yes, there is cases where companies lie. The vast majority of companies though are in compliance with their duties. Especially on matters so trivial as revenue of a game studio which makes up barely a tiny fraction of their total revenue. Even more so when those financial records support a narrative with results. In this case that CoH was closed due to low revenue.

You have not provided any more believable, valid, reasonable or logical evidence to the contrary so far. Besides claiming you know better and being absolutely immune to reason.

Given the alternatives of which facts one could believe: made up stories of an individual (who has not provided any proof of his claims) versus public financial records of a company, I'll go with the later. As will any other reasonable person with sane mind.

I am not here to prove anything your the one who made these claims the burden of proof lies to you but I really do not care what you think I have a good idea of what happened and know the track record thats all that matters, your clear stretch to defend them speaks all the volumes for all to see. I have never needed validation from you or anyone else.

I made a statement which you refuted without proof. My statement HAS proof. Yours doesn't. It's pretty simple.

You are not the person I responded to, anyways actually you did not provide any real proof as pointed out several times, its beyond obvious you can no longer defend it its time to come up with another excuse/argument for your defense if you are this person under another profile anyway.

The proof is in the statements from the company itself, which you choose to believe was falsified, also without providing evidence. It's a three way conversation and has been since the beginning. Two of us are saying one thing, you're saying something different. We're talking about profit/loss statements from a public company as proof, which is a matter of public record. It's the only proof offered in this entire conversation. You choose to believe that those numbers could be a lie. But there's no evidence that it is a lie, it's just you saying it.

Until you counter the proof given, it remains in play.

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@Ryou.2398 said:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some, actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

City of Heroes grossed as much as 12 million dollars annually. Guild Wars 2 grosses more than that per quarter. That doesn't speak to profitability, but just on base sales, it took two years for City of Heroes to get up to Guild Wars 2 pre launch numbers. That is Guild Wars 2 has 4 million prelaunch sales and by the time City of Heroes was 2 years old, it hadn't hit that number yet.

It's nice to like a game and I have nothing against City of Heroes, but it was never as high in the MMO world as you'd like to think it was. Most people think Guild Wars 2 is sitting in the top five MMORPGS, or has for a long long time. I can't ever remember seeing City of Heroes on the top five list at any time.

It was a niche product that was wildly popular among its fan base, but never reached mainstream popularity, much like Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 numbers can't touch Guild Wars 2 numbers either.

Since NcSoft reports are a matter of public record, you could do a bit of research yourself, look at what the games made, and figure this out, before you start trying to invalidate what people say and calling them a fan boi.

The irony of this situation is that being a fan boi of City of Heroes doesn't actually make you more entitled to speak without facts than me being a fan boi of Guild Wars 2. But I was speaking of facts. This game is far far more successful than City of Heroes ever was, even at this point.

That doesn't mean it's more profitable. But it could well mean that the higher profile/higher footpriint changes the situation with regards to business decisions. Just a thought.

Edit: Wildstar is even a more clear cut case, since before it actually closed, it's profits were no longer reported individually because it simply wasn't making enough to support it's profits.

I think its funny how some of you keep thinking I said anything about gw2 being more profitable or not vs a much older mmo.

You did, at the very least you insinuated something factually incorrect:

@MetalGirl.2370 said:People need to stop overreacting. Those who act like it's end of the world and are leaving are the reason why GW2 is doing bad.For the love of all the cats, just stop with threads about layoffs. It happened and game will move forward and soon it will be just like it ever was, maybe even better because its their #1 focus again, which is what we all ever wanted.Just enjoy the game, talk nicely of it and people will come to it. If I was searching for an MMO and all I saw is depressing posts and stuff I'd be running away from it. You people are doing exactly the opposite. Just stop.

Lol sorry friend but this is incorrect, its not an overreaction when there is a track record to begin with, this is just a final nail in the coffin for many, its not based on one situation.

So how many situations is it based on exactly. I can think of one..City of Heroes. You can't say it's based on Wildstar, because Wildstar was practically dead before NcSoft pulled the plug. I honestly wish people would stop saying a single data point or even two is some sort of pattern. It is an over-reaction because City of Heroes probably never had the number of players Guild Wars 2 did, at any point in it's history. It certainly didn't bring in the same revenue. So you can't really compare it.

I did not say it was about other mmos but it likely is for some,
actually coh had the numbers thats a complete fabricated lie
and many have shown this I suggest you stop being blinded by any fanboyism at this point and try to research a bit deeper.

You might not like mmorpg.com, but you can't argue with financial reports (which is all I would have linked to, but you did not seem as though you had taken a look at CoHs ones yet). Your statement that CoH "had the numbers" in comparison to GW2 is just that: a biased incorrect assumption that both games are in some sort of similar situation which would lead to GW2 seeing a similar fate. As was pointed out to you, this is plain untrue (with GW2 vastly outperforming CoH even in its darkest hours). Your subjective feeling of how well the CoH did is beaten by cold hard facts and revenue numbers.

For anything else, sure you can hope and maybe one of the new MMOs will draw your attention. Given you have been playing since Everquest, I'm sure your had your share of disappointments and delights in the MMO market. What is dirty though is to bring this hype nonsense in these doom and gloom threads with: I'm not even sure which goal.

You cannot proof what you said is factually correct though so that is not true. I provided the links of the few things that have been around as to why it could have happened. It has nothing to do with me liking mmorpg.com it has to do with paid shilling and corrupt journalism that is beyond obvious today. I can and did argue with damage reports it seems odd how much you care almost like you could be from this kind of group.

and again, go read the quarterly financial reports. I linked to mmorpg.com because the article basically summed up what was in them for people who are incapable of understanding financial information. Feel free to disagree with the financial statements, but given the numbers in those, my assumptions are way better backed than yours.

Again, what is the goal here? If you are unhappy with GW2, move on. You said it yourself, there is some promising new MMOs coming.

Lmao a journalist article does not work for the company or has real recordings of the actual earnings though, and what is your gaol here exactly? You came out of no where to defend something they cannot even be proven on your end. I will do as I please, just because I post once and a while does not mean I have not moved on but its time companies stop getting away with the nonsense that they do things are changing and you better get used to it.

FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I am referring to their FINANCIAL STATEMENTS which are referenced in the article and which are publicly available. You know, the ones which companies are required to put out and which should be as accurate as possible as to not get sued by investors?

You can do as you please, just at the very least put in the due diligence of informing yourself with information available. Currently all you are doing is spreading unfounded negativity and even when called on how you are wrong you are incapable of going and gathering valid data and information. That's called fanboism or trolling.

My goal? Call out nonsense in a negative thread which is filled with not factually based information on a game I enjoy because sometimes it's worth the time calling bs out.

Financial statements claimed by a company, we all now game companies have lied in the past about game development and sales there is no way to prove this is fact and your source is mmorpg.com with nothing but corrupt journalism your the one spreading misinformation here, negative lol your the one who started this dance with me young one. I enjoy watching you reveal your own thats for sure.

Actually, we do not know that. Yes, there is cases where companies lie. The vast majority of companies though are in compliance with their duties. Especially on matters so trivial as revenue of a game studio which makes up barely a tiny fraction of their total revenue. Even more so when those financial records support a narrative with results. In this case that CoH was closed due to low revenue.

You have not provided any more believable, valid, reasonable or logical evidence to the contrary so far. Besides claiming you know better and being absolutely immune to reason.

Given the alternatives of which facts one could believe: made up stories of an individual (who has not provided any proof of his claims) versus public financial records of a company, I'll go with the later. As will any other reasonable person with sane mind.

I am not here to prove anything your the one who made these claims the burden of proof lies to you but I really do not care what you think I have a good idea of what happened and know the track record thats all that matters, your clear stretch to defend them speaks all the volumes for all to see. I have never needed validation from you or anyone else.

I made a statement which you refuted without proof. My statement HAS proof. Yours doesn't. It's pretty simple.

You are not the person I responded to, anyways actually you did not provide any real proof as pointed out several times, its beyond obvious you can no longer defend it its time to come up with another excuse/argument for your defense if you are this person under another profile anyway.

I have referenced the companies financial statements multiple times by now. I see no reason to respond to this any longer. You have proven to not want to provide any evidence for your claims, I have provided both an article which summarized the financial statements as well as directly refereed to them multiple times. I see no reason to provide any more evidence to support my claim that City of Heroes was way less profitable than GW2.

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