NERF DAMAGE REDUCTION FOOD

[RisenHowl.2419]

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:As someone else pointed out, the reason isn't because we think 1shit is OK. The problem is the huge variety of TTK in 1v1s. Some fights are decided after just 2-4 weapon rotations.. that's usually the case if the fight is between high dps builds.. BUT..if 1 guy is dps build however the other is playing some sort of bunker/sustain coupled with rotation, they can practically last forever. Sure, neither will die but honestly that's no fun.By game design I think everyone should be able to die in a 1v1 if you fight vs a build with high dmg. Scrapper, chrono, condi/bunker rev, FB, bunker spellbreaker, boonsustain axe soulbeast all run defensive stats sure.. but they are invincible in a 1v1. I don't think it should be possible. It's bad for the game.

I'm not saying 1shot is good.. I also think 1shot dmg should be nerfed.. but fighting for 5+ minutes 1v1 is just silly and should ONLY happen if TWO bunker/tanks fight each other. At that point you only win if your opponent gets bored.

All of this is going on the assumption that 1 v 1 is intended.

While it happens, balance has always been geared towards the groups. Not 1 v 1 in WvW.

So as I may not disagree with your idea, it’s far less likely to happen in this mode.

Sure it is. But you can't just ignore a significant fact of any open world pvp game that 1v1 is going to happen.Besides, 2 sustain builds can complement each other as well vs 2 dps builds.

You’re telling me that two bursts builds can’t kill one focused sustain build? Without taking significant damage themselves?

Also, balancing around wvw blobbing is just silly. That's not even what they are doing except adjusting OP fbs and scourges cus they completely change everything. But why do you think they update thief and ranger? Because fights no matter how many players are relevant.

Do you really think they balance thief and Mesmer because of WvW? Most of the nerfs that hit the WvW builds are because of hits to the class in other areas, namely sPvP or PvE.

WvW is intended to be about larger fights, which the ‘balance’ is based on multipliers of force, not of individual skill sets.

1v1 is indeed intended.Intended is different than expected.

But the issues I highlighted are still relevant regardless if there are more players or not. You think it's a coincidence scrappers usually need 2-3 players to kill them? Fb usually needs at least 2. That's not good design. The only reason 1shot exists is to counter the braindead sustain meta. But then sustain noobs go cry in forum they take so much dmg!! Nerf dmg!! Okay so you want to be able to do whatever you want and not be at risk of dying unless there are like 3 to 4 people focusing you at once? No way.

In a team based game of course it’s good design.

If they wanted duels or 1v1 they would have custom arenas for that or a ‘duel’ option.

Oh wait, that exists..... In sPvP

Lower the extremes.. less 1shot burst dmg.. less invincible sustain..

In a vacuum that sounds great.

But let’s take the ‘bunker’ side of your argument. If that bunker is unable to kill the high burst builds then they aren’t going to be able to take camps either which, removes any reason for that person to Solo Roam. And if that’s the case, they are either with a partner or party, or on their way back to a Zerg. And if that is the case, it’s a moot point. Of course that build is designed for a different function and should be left alone.

If that ‘bunker’ is able to kill the Burst build, then again, they are likely roaming and I would suggest the other tank up a little bit more.

I am just arguing sustain builds be toned down a little. Idk if you gotta fix the stats or just the trait/skill balance. The thing is if you play dmg build you tend to have less options of regaining lost health throughout rotations other than your heal. That means they need to be more careful. If they take dmg they usually have to retreat unless they are confident they can kill the other before they get killed themselves. This applies to most smallscale fights. The problem is that sustain builds can usually make 29 mistakes and still be a-ok. To kill these builds you need to continually out rotate them and outplay them for several rotations before you start making a dent in their survivability. And even then a lot of them can easily retreat, some have great mobility too.

So, leave them be and move on. The game has never been about ‘skill’. It’s about builds and numbers. Equal builds, well then you can talk about skill which is why duelers duel.

There are builds that if I engage them, I know it isn’t likely to end well for me. AndSome of that is I know my skill may not be up to par, and I know there are builds that carry people.

But if you aren’t slowly whittling then down, leave,

More than likely if you are a DPS build you have mobility of sorts built in.

And from what you are saying, they can’t kill you either.

Yes I can leave and yes I don't die either. I'm saying that that's stupid. Sure, it is about the build a lot. But just because build is a significant factor doesn't mean you should be able to have builds that make you invincible. TTK shouldn't be infinity just because you stacked protection spam, healing and toughness + condi cleansing.

In a good balanced game you have tanks that don't deal great dmg.. they take a long time to kill.. but they DO die. They can't just keep healing themselves forever. The only way a tank would live forever in those games is if he's getting healed by priest or other heal class. Unless they focus healer.

In gw2, tanks can't die. That's what I don't like. It's bad design and it isn't fun for anybody. It's just straight up boring. It's only fun for a little while the first few times"Haha I'm invincible they can't kill me!" But it gets old really fast.

Have you tried playing something that deals damage, or do you prefer to run RP builds?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:As someone else pointed out, the reason isn't because we think 1shit is OK. The problem is the huge variety of TTK in 1v1s. Some fights are decided after just 2-4 weapon rotations.. that's usually the case if the fight is between high dps builds.. BUT..if 1 guy is dps build however the other is playing some sort of bunker/sustain coupled with rotation, they can practically last forever. Sure, neither will die but honestly that's no fun.By game design I think everyone should be able to die in a 1v1 if you fight vs a build with high dmg. Scrapper, chrono, condi/bunker rev, FB, bunker spellbreaker, boonsustain axe soulbeast all run defensive stats sure.. but they are invincible in a 1v1. I don't think it should be possible. It's bad for the game.

I'm not saying 1shot is good.. I also think 1shot dmg should be nerfed.. but fighting for 5+ minutes 1v1 is just silly and should ONLY happen if TWO bunker/tanks fight each other. At that point you only win if your opponent gets bored.

All of this is going on the assumption that 1 v 1 is intended.

While it happens, balance has always been geared towards the groups. Not 1 v 1 in WvW.

So as I may not disagree with your idea, it’s far less likely to happen in this mode.

Sure it is. But you can't just ignore a significant fact of any open world pvp game that 1v1 is going to happen.Besides, 2 sustain builds can complement each other as well vs 2 dps builds.

You’re telling me that two bursts builds can’t kill one focused sustain build? Without taking significant damage themselves?

Also, balancing around wvw blobbing is just silly. That's not even what they are doing except adjusting OP fbs and scourges cus they completely change everything. But why do you think they update thief and ranger? Because fights no matter how many players are relevant.

Do you really think they balance thief and Mesmer because of WvW? Most of the nerfs that hit the WvW builds are because of hits to the class in other areas, namely sPvP or PvE.

WvW is intended to be about larger fights, which the ‘balance’ is based on multipliers of force, not of individual skill sets.

1v1 is indeed intended.Intended is different than expected.

But the issues I highlighted are still relevant regardless if there are more players or not. You think it's a coincidence scrappers usually need 2-3 players to kill them? Fb usually needs at least 2. That's not good design. The only reason 1shot exists is to counter the braindead sustain meta. But then sustain noobs go cry in forum they take so much dmg!! Nerf dmg!! Okay so you want to be able to do whatever you want and not be at risk of dying unless there are like 3 to 4 people focusing you at once? No way.

In a team based game of course it’s good design.

If they wanted duels or 1v1 they would have custom arenas for that or a ‘duel’ option.

Oh wait, that exists..... In sPvP

Lower the extremes.. less 1shot burst dmg.. less invincible sustain..

In a vacuum that sounds great.

But let’s take the ‘bunker’ side of your argument. If that bunker is unable to kill the high burst builds then they aren’t going to be able to take camps either which, removes any reason for that person to Solo Roam. And if that’s the case, they are either with a partner or party, or on their way back to a Zerg. And if that is the case, it’s a moot point. Of course that build is designed for a different function and should be left alone.

If that ‘bunker’ is able to kill the Burst build, then again, they are likely roaming and I would suggest the other tank up a little bit more.

I am just arguing sustain builds be toned down a little. Idk if you gotta fix the stats or just the trait/skill balance. The thing is if you play dmg build you tend to have less options of regaining lost health throughout rotations other than your heal. That means they need to be more careful. If they take dmg they usually have to retreat unless they are confident they can kill the other before they get killed themselves. This applies to most smallscale fights. The problem is that sustain builds can usually make 29 mistakes and still be a-ok. To kill these builds you need to continually out rotate them and outplay them for several rotations before you start making a dent in their survivability. And even then a lot of them can easily retreat, some have great mobility too.

So, leave them be and move on. The game has never been about ‘skill’. It’s about builds and numbers. Equal builds, well then you can talk about skill which is why duelers duel.

There are builds that if I engage them, I know it isn’t likely to end well for me. AndSome of that is I know my skill may not be up to par, and I know there are builds that carry people.

But if you aren’t slowly whittling then down, leave,

More than likely if you are a DPS build you have mobility of sorts built in.

And from what you are saying, they can’t kill you either.

Yes I can leave and yes I don't die either. I'm saying that that's stupid. Sure, it is about the build a lot. But just because build is a significant factor doesn't mean you should be able to have builds that make you invincible. TTK shouldn't be infinity just because you stacked protection spam, healing and toughness + condi cleansing.

In a good balanced game you have tanks that don't deal great dmg.. they take a long time to kill.. but they DO die. They can't just keep healing themselves forever. The only way a tank would live forever in those games is if he's getting healed by priest or other heal class. Unless they focus healer.

In gw2, tanks can't die. That's what I don't like. It's bad design and it isn't fun for anybody. It's just straight up boring. It's only fun for a little while the first few times"Haha I'm invincible they can't kill me!" But it gets old really fast.

Ok... so you can get triggered about balance or move on, either in the encounter or the game.

Just know that people have been continuously asking for nerfs/buffs for one on one encounters since the start of the game.

If you want better solo type balance, play sPvP. You won’t find it in WvW.

Now, you may have glimpses of it, but that is usually your favored class (insert any build here) that gets buffed so much that you can win 3/4s of your 1v1 encounters (see my Reaper before bleed nerf). Then it gets brought back to respectability and boom; there is no balance.

[Megastorm.6219]

I'll keep the laughing to a minimum up in the front of the zerg where work is being done. I'm not sorry you can't claim that your build is amazing DPS because you can't one-shot everything which leads you to come to the forums to talk about it being a food issue. The vocal minority doesn't bla bla bla you know the rest. Play for fun not top honors...sir.

[juno.1840]

Energy food is by far worse than any dmg reduction food.

[bigo.9037]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@bigo.9037 said:As someone else pointed out, the reason isn't because we think 1shit is OK. The problem is the huge variety of TTK in 1v1s. Some fights are decided after just 2-4 weapon rotations.. that's usually the case if the fight is between high dps builds.. BUT..if 1 guy is dps build however the other is playing some sort of bunker/sustain coupled with rotation, they can practically last forever. Sure, neither will die but honestly that's no fun.By game design I think everyone should be able to die in a 1v1 if you fight vs a build with high dmg. Scrapper, chrono, condi/bunker rev, FB, bunker spellbreaker, boonsustain axe soulbeast all run defensive stats sure.. but they are invincible in a 1v1. I don't think it should be possible. It's bad for the game.

I'm not saying 1shot is good.. I also think 1shot dmg should be nerfed.. but fighting for 5+ minutes 1v1 is just silly and should ONLY happen if TWO bunker/tanks fight each other. At that point you only win if your opponent gets bored.

All of this is going on the assumption that 1 v 1 is intended.

While it happens, balance has always been geared towards the groups. Not 1 v 1 in WvW.

So as I may not disagree with your idea, it’s far less likely to happen in this mode.

Sure it is. But you can't just ignore a significant fact of any open world pvp game that 1v1 is going to happen.Besides, 2 sustain builds can complement each other as well vs 2 dps builds.

You’re telling me that two bursts builds can’t kill one focused sustain build? Without taking significant damage themselves?

Also, balancing around wvw blobbing is just silly. That's not even what they are doing except adjusting OP fbs and scourges cus they completely change everything. But why do you think they update thief and ranger? Because fights no matter how many players are relevant.

Do you really think they balance thief and Mesmer because of WvW? Most of the nerfs that hit the WvW builds are because of hits to the class in other areas, namely sPvP or PvE.

WvW is intended to be about larger fights, which the ‘balance’ is based on multipliers of force, not of individual skill sets.

1v1 is indeed intended.Intended is different than expected.

But the issues I highlighted are still relevant regardless if there are more players or not. You think it's a coincidence scrappers usually need 2-3 players to kill them? Fb usually needs at least 2. That's not good design. The only reason 1shot exists is to counter the braindead sustain meta. But then sustain noobs go cry in forum they take so much dmg!! Nerf dmg!! Okay so you want to be able to do whatever you want and not be at risk of dying unless there are like 3 to 4 people focusing you at once? No way.

In a team based game of course it’s good design.

If they wanted duels or 1v1 they would have custom arenas for that or a ‘duel’ option.

Oh wait, that exists..... In sPvP

Lower the extremes.. less 1shot burst dmg.. less invincible sustain..

In a vacuum that sounds great.

But let’s take the ‘bunker’ side of your argument. If that bunker is unable to kill the high burst builds then they aren’t going to be able to take camps either which, removes any reason for that person to Solo Roam. And if that’s the case, they are either with a partner or party, or on their way back to a Zerg. And if that is the case, it’s a moot point. Of course that build is designed for a different function and should be left alone.

If that ‘bunker’ is able to kill the Burst build, then again, they are likely roaming and I would suggest the other tank up a little bit more.

I am just arguing sustain builds be toned down a little. Idk if you gotta fix the stats or just the trait/skill balance. The thing is if you play dmg build you tend to have less options of regaining lost health throughout rotations other than your heal. That means they need to be more careful. If they take dmg they usually have to retreat unless they are confident they can kill the other before they get killed themselves. This applies to most smallscale fights. The problem is that sustain builds can usually make 29 mistakes and still be a-ok. To kill these builds you need to continually out rotate them and outplay them for several rotations before you start making a dent in their survivability. And even then a lot of them can easily retreat, some have great mobility too.

So, leave them be and move on. The game has never been about ‘skill’. It’s about builds and numbers. Equal builds, well then you can talk about skill which is why duelers duel.

There are builds that if I engage them, I know it isn’t likely to end well for me. AndSome of that is I know my skill may not be up to par, and I know there are builds that carry people.

But if you aren’t slowly whittling then down, leave,

More than likely if you are a DPS build you have mobility of sorts built in.

And from what you are saying, they can’t kill you either.

Yes I can leave and yes I don't die either. I'm saying that that's stupid. Sure, it is about the build a lot. But just because build is a significant factor doesn't mean you should be able to have builds that make you invincible. TTK shouldn't be infinity just because you stacked protection spam, healing and toughness + condi cleansing.

In a good balanced game you have tanks that don't deal great dmg.. they take a long time to kill.. but they DO die. They can't just keep healing themselves forever. The only way a tank would live forever in those games is if he's getting healed by priest or other heal class. Unless they focus healer.

In gw2, tanks can't die. That's what I don't like. It's bad design and it isn't fun for anybody. It's just straight up boring. It's only fun for a little while the first few times"Haha I'm invincible they can't kill me!" But it gets old really fast.

Ok... so you can get triggered about balance or move on, either in the encounter or the game.

Just know that people have been continuously asking for nerfs/buffs for one on one encounters since the start of the game.

If you want better solo type balance, play sPvP. You won’t find it in WvW.

Now, you may have glimpses of it, but that is usually your favored class (insert any build here) that gets buffed so much that you can win 3/4s of your 1v1 encounters (see my Reaper before bleed nerf). Then it gets brought back to respectability and boom; there is no balance.

Winning 3/4s of your 1v1s in wvw is considered weak by roaming standards as players there are usually considerably worse than spvp and don't run builds suited for that. But getting that on reaper is pretty good yea. I think you can still achieve that today with the new circle of fear thingy. Seen some players pull it off really well and I actually had to pay attention to kill them unlike most reapers in wvw.Again I'm just saying they should be considering this kinda stuff in wvw too. I know it's not happening but I can make my case.I just prefer small fights because each individual player has more impact on the outcome. So I think anet should balance around this, as it would be more fun and engaging if wvw had more smallscale fights rather than blobbing.

Ofc it's not going to happen, but again I'm just making my case

[Andromeda.8293]

I have never thought of dmg reduction food as an issue or anything that I even mildly cared about. I don't consider it "try hard," it used to be the meta so every wvw-er has those recipes account bound. Food and wrench buffs aren't expensive - so don't cry about it when people use the best in slot; it's easily available. It's been in the game in its current state for so long - if it were a real problem, there would of been ongoing relevant discussion about it.

[xZombieTaco.5809]

@beatthedown.2651 said:I know there are lots of busted food buffs in this game, but damage reduction takes the cake for me. Especially since the reduction modifier stacks very weird, resulting in a very noticable effect. Even the wiki acknowledges that damage reduction is inconsistent in this game.

While I agree with you, I'm assuming you play ranger because of the pic, but soulbeast auto LB hits for 5-8k so I'd rather they keep dmg redux the way it is

[coro.3176]

@"Tiawal.2351" said:Nerf everything! 5% less damage reduction food will be "healthy for this game mode"? Why not 3% or 7%? Also will encourage diversity... since the less options you have, the better this becomes?

You know what "takes the cake"? The unavoidable 20k damage bursts under 2 seconds, that still exist, from multiple sources. Now if there was a limit of maximum percent of health one can lose per second (like 25% or 33% or anything), these food workarounds could be removed.

The time to kill adjustment is very much a preference; one likes it to kill in a single hit, others want a long(er) fight, and this time to kill has to fit into the game. In this kind of RvR team game, the fight must last a while, that's the fun part, the battle itself. The kill is the end of it. Not many will run back if they are just insta-killed again and again, no fun in that. This isn't a samurai duel simulation, where the first strike is the end of it.

only 20k? Those are rookie numbers!

You want to start your merge->unblockable->sic-em->PBS->Rapid-Fire burst that's going to be critting for minimum 2.5k per hit on a tanky player, probably up to 3.5k on a squishy. That's, say 30k average + at least 5k from PBS, plus sigil procs. You're looking at 40k in under 2s, unblockable, from 1800 range.

You want to have killed your target 3x over before they can even humanly react! and then make double sure to kill them if they react with reflect or block instead of a hard invuln.

If by some miracle they survived this, I guess you can autoattack them for "only" 5-10k per shot.

Remember back when the game came out and people used to complain about thieves backstabbing for 7-9k?.. yeah.. This is the level of power creep we're at now.

[Dawdler.8521]

@coro.3176 said:

@"Tiawal.2351" said:Nerf everything! 5% less damage reduction food will be "healthy for this game mode"? Why not 3% or 7%? Also will encourage diversity... since the less options you have, the better this becomes?

You know what "takes the cake"? The unavoidable 20k damage bursts under 2 seconds, that still exist, from multiple sources. Now if there was a limit of maximum percent of health one can lose per second (like 25% or 33% or anything), these food workarounds could be removed.

The time to kill adjustment is very much a preference; one likes it to kill in a single hit, others want a long(er) fight, and this time to kill has to fit into the game. In this kind of RvR team game, the fight must last a while, that's the fun part, the battle itself. The kill is the end of it. Not many will run back if they are just insta-killed again and again, no fun in that. This isn't a samurai duel simulation, where the first strike is the end of it.

only 20k? Those are rookie numbers!

You want to start your merge->unblockable->sic-em->PBS->Rapid-Fire burst that's going to be critting for minimum 2.5k per hit on a tanky player, probably up to 3.5k on a squishy. That's, say 30k average + at least 5k from PBS, plus sigil procs. You're looking at 40k in under 2s, unblockable, from 1800 range.

You want to have killed your target 3x over before they can even humanly react! and then make double sure to kill them if they react with reflect or block instead of a hard invuln.

If by some miracle they survived this, I guess you can autoattack them for "only" 5-10k per shot.

Remember back when the game came out and people used to complain about thieves backstabbing for 7-9k?.. yeah.. This is the level of power creep we're at now.Funny thing, yesterday we met a ranger that did 9500 damage on me with point blank shot. He was completely alone, no ally buffs. PBS has a lower base damage than AA at 1000+ range. And I had 1700 toughness. Almost 10k. Seriously. On no toughness that would have been what, 12-13k? We're looking at ~15k AA at max range then. My build that can kill squishies in seconds had serious problems bringing him to 50% because my attacks didnt do much damage. I saw him instakill other players.