TFW Power Reaper is worse than Power Scourge....

[Zoltreez.6435]

@vicious.5683 said:

@AlexanderDracul.7492 said:Well the idea for scourge is that we traded a second healthbar for damage. So it's fitting that power scourge and condi scourge out dps power reaper and condi reaper.

I never get when people say Shroud is a health bar.scourge has barriers, that's like a second healthbar too?

i bet this is how devs think also... sadly... no wonder we allway get the shor end of the stick in something allways...

6k barrier with a few 2k barrier here and there VS 20k+ extra healtbar that you can regenrate damn fast while its on the 10 sec CD + it has its own abilities....

[Kam.4092]

@Zoltreez.6435 said:

@vicious.5683 said:

@AlexanderDracul.7492 said:Well the idea for scourge is that we traded a second healthbar for damage. So it's fitting that power scourge and condi scourge out dps power reaper and condi reaper.

I never get when people say Shroud is a health bar.scourge has barriers, that's like a second healthbar too?

i bet this is how devs think also... sadly... no wonder we allway get the shor end of the stick in something allways...

6k barrier with a few 2k barrier here and there VS 20k+ extra healtbar that you can regenrate kitten fast while its on the 10 sec CD + it has its own abilities....

Barrier decays too fast to be a second health bar, and if you're DPSing right in PvE, you shouldn't have it max ever. The only time it'd be max is if you were Support or just camping Dagger forever being silly.

[Obtena.7952]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

Of course its relevant, GW2 will always be compared against its peers, if they're really interested in creating a bustling End Game PVE scene that attracts people from other games in the genre then they sure do not want to have a reputation of going halfway like a bunch of amateurs. I can guarantee you that when I'm on MMO enthusiast sites I'm sure not using raids and their stellar balance to try to bring people aboard I tell them that GW2 is about Open World group content and massive 3 way PVP servers in WVWVW and that if they want to come for the raiding don't bother because between the balance and band aid application of tanks and healers that it's amateur hour.

No one should presume that Anet is simply selling it's End Game PVE scene as what attracts people from other games because it doesn't. That's not it's selling point and it never was. It's the things that Anet does different than everyone else that sells it, including what you would probably describe as the lack of balance.

Anyways, you can ignore the history of the game itself or impose your beliefs of what it should be. The average reasonable player has no illusions that all these balanced options exist, or ever will. That's not due to some amateur effort either. That's simply the way Anet decides to develop the game.

[Zoltreez.6435]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

Of course its relevant, GW2 will always be compared against its peers, if they're really interested in creating a bustling End Game PVE scene that attracts people from other games in the genre then they sure do not want to have a reputation of going halfway like a bunch of amateurs. I can guarantee you that when I'm on MMO enthusiast sites I'm sure not using raids and their stellar balance to try to bring people aboard I tell them that GW2 is about Open World group content and massive 3 way PVP servers in WVWVW and that if they want to come for the raiding don't bother because between the balance and band aid application of tanks and healers that it's amateur hour.

No one should presume that Anet is simply selling it's End Game PVE scene as what attracts people from other games because it doesn't. That's not it's selling point and it never was. It's the things that Anet does different than everyone else that sells it, including what you would probably describe as the lack of balance.

Anyways, you can ignore the history of the game itself or impose your beliefs of what it should be. The average reasonable player has no illusions that all these balanced options exist, or ever will. That's not due to some amateur effort either. That's simply the way Anet decides to develop the game.

tldr:

Devs don't care about Balance.

[Obtena.7952]

@Zoltreez.6435 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Refia Montes.3205" said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

Of course its relevant, GW2 will always be compared against its peers, if they're really interested in creating a bustling End Game PVE scene that attracts people from other games in the genre then they sure do not want to have a reputation of going halfway like a bunch of amateurs. I can guarantee you that when I'm on MMO enthusiast sites I'm sure not using raids and their stellar balance to try to bring people aboard I tell them that GW2 is about Open World group content and massive 3 way PVP servers in WVWVW and that if they want to come for the raiding don't bother because between the balance and band aid application of tanks and healers that it's amateur hour.

No one should presume that Anet is simply selling it's End Game PVE scene as what attracts people from other games because it doesn't. That's not it's selling point and it never was. It's the things that Anet does different than everyone else that sells it, including what you would probably describe as the lack of balance.

Anyways, you can ignore the history of the game itself or impose your beliefs of what it should be. The average reasonable player has no illusions that all these balanced options exist, or ever will. That's not due to some amateur effort either. That's simply the way Anet decides to develop the game.

tldr:

Devs don't care about Balance.

I would actually agree with that because in a game without the holy trinity that has mostly low requirements to win it, it's unnecessary baggage. GW2 is frankly, pretty easy compared to what other MMO's throw at you, so the requirement to have a whole bunch of competitive builds for all kinds of content is very low. Why would they continually waste time trying to balance to a competitive level if it's not needed? I see no justification for it. If players demand it, it's only because of the unnecessary baggage they carry from other MMOs that aren't anything like GW2 in the first place.

I can just imagine it now, Dev ready the title of this thread and their response "So what's the problem?"

[Kam.4092]

@Kam.4092 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JDNQLNYbNgjNAbvYBXwgGABgWA1ZoNEt0TsN2KLA-jhRBAB4pfAgnAAlq/c1+jyPzUC+wJBIAwBw5Nv5NP48zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8zP/8zPPA-e

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

What about Axe/Dagger?

I could throw my Vipers trinkets on to make it a hybrid build perhaps

I don't think a hybrid build would work with Viper's mixed in. Maybe Grieving would be good.

I was going to try Power Scourge with Accuracy over Air Sigils. I forgot it loses Deicmate Defences from Reaper, and another 7% Crit chance may be huge.

I tried Accuracy Sigil with different food, and hit 34k. I can't really change anything else around with the build. I'm done testing it.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Zoltreez.6435 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Refia Montes.3205" said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

Of course its relevant, GW2 will always be compared against its peers, if they're really interested in creating a bustling End Game PVE scene that attracts people from other games in the genre then they sure do not want to have a reputation of going halfway like a bunch of amateurs. I can guarantee you that when I'm on MMO enthusiast sites I'm sure not using raids and their stellar balance to try to bring people aboard I tell them that GW2 is about Open World group content and massive 3 way PVP servers in WVWVW and that if they want to come for the raiding don't bother because between the balance and band aid application of tanks and healers that it's amateur hour.

No one should presume that Anet is simply selling it's End Game PVE scene as what attracts people from other games because it doesn't. That's not it's selling point and it never was. It's the things that Anet does different than everyone else that sells it, including what you would probably describe as the lack of balance.

Anyways, you can ignore the history of the game itself or impose your beliefs of what it should be. The average reasonable player has no illusions that all these balanced options exist, or ever will. That's not due to some amateur effort either. That's simply the way Anet decides to develop the game.

tldr:

Devs don't care about Balance.

I would actually agree with that because in a game without the holy trinity that has mostly low requirements to win it, it's unnecessary baggage. GW2 is frankly, pretty easy compared to what other MMO's throw at you, so the requirement to have a whole bunch of competitive builds for all kinds of content is very low. Why would they continually waste time trying to balance to a competitive level if it's not needed? I see no justification for it. If players demand it, it's only because of the unnecessary baggage they carry from other MMOs that aren't anything like GW2 in the first place.

I can just imagine it now, Dev ready the title of this thread and their response "So what's the problem?"

Purity of purpose. Scourge was advertised as a supportive spec that focuses on conditions and spreading barriers for allies. Reaper was advertised as a powerful juggernaut that was slow and selfish.

[Obtena.7952]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Zoltreez.6435 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

Of course its relevant, GW2 will always be compared against its peers, if they're really interested in creating a bustling End Game PVE scene that attracts people from other games in the genre then they sure do not want to have a reputation of going halfway like a bunch of amateurs. I can guarantee you that when I'm on MMO enthusiast sites I'm sure not using raids and their stellar balance to try to bring people aboard I tell them that GW2 is about Open World group content and massive 3 way PVP servers in WVWVW and that if they want to come for the raiding don't bother because between the balance and band aid application of tanks and healers that it's amateur hour.

No one should presume that Anet is simply selling it's End Game PVE scene as what attracts people from other games because it doesn't. That's not it's selling point and it never was. It's the things that Anet does different than everyone else that sells it, including what you would probably describe as the lack of balance.

Anyways, you can ignore the history of the game itself or impose your beliefs of what it should be. The average reasonable player has no illusions that all these balanced options exist, or ever will. That's not due to some amateur effort either. That's simply the way Anet decides to develop the game.

tldr:

Devs don't care about Balance.

I would actually agree with that because in a game without the holy trinity that has mostly low requirements to win it, it's unnecessary baggage. GW2 is frankly, pretty easy compared to what other MMO's throw at you, so the requirement to have a whole bunch of competitive builds for all kinds of content is very low. Why would they continually waste time trying to balance to a competitive level if it's not needed? I see no justification for it. If players demand it, it's only because of the unnecessary baggage they carry from other MMOs that aren't anything like GW2 in the first place.

I can just imagine it now, Dev ready the title of this thread and their response "So what's the problem?"

Purity of purpose. Scourge was advertised as a supportive spec that focuses on conditions and spreading barriers for allies. Reaper was advertised as a powerful juggernaut that was slow and selfish.

... and that has to do with how much DPS they do in what way? I don't see anything there that says one is more than the other. I think you're reading into something that isn't there to express dissatisfaction with Scourge not meeting your expectations.

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Zoltreez.6435 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:Title... why Anet.

Why not? Why does any particular spec need to keep it's DPS rank with respect to any other?

Because that's a standard of quality we expect from games such as WoW or even Diablo 3s class balance which has a smaller balance team than GW2 (while not an MMO they still need to be competitive in high lvl instances so that they can compete on leader boards).

Implying that lack luster balance with such a wide range of DPS is acceptable in an MMO either suggests ignorance playing this genre or people suffering from Stockholm Syndrome accepting ANets lackadaisical approach to investing in proper staffing for class balance.

These are not solely my views, as long as you have a passing familiarity with youtubers such as Mighty Teapot, Nike, and the Bad Builds Guy they frequently discuss the balance teams limitations on Tea Time.

What happens in other games is irrelevant. Expect whatever you will ... we have 5 years of GW2 experience to know what the expectation for balance is, the dev behaviour and the flavour of THIS GAME is. You're going to continually expect something Anet doesn't deliver and from what I can see, they don't even try to do. Maintaining an expectation from OTHER games for THIS game is unreasonable, regardless of all the youtubers you want to quote. The fact remains that balance, as you understand it, is not a priority or even a thing in this game.

I can't actually see a reason any particular spec must be more or less DPS than any other, regardless of the spec. Forget spec, ... even at the build level, we have optimal DPS. This is how it's been since day 1. It's got zero to do with balance; it's the result of game design. It's a fool's errand to bother making a whole bunch of equivalent meta builds across builds across especs and across classes. If Wow and Diablo deliver balance and it's a huge factor to you, go play them. If this balance is a massive factor in your choice to play games, choice wisely.

Of course its relevant, GW2 will always be compared against its peers, if they're really interested in creating a bustling End Game PVE scene that attracts people from other games in the genre then they sure do not want to have a reputation of going halfway like a bunch of amateurs. I can guarantee you that when I'm on MMO enthusiast sites I'm sure not using raids and their stellar balance to try to bring people aboard I tell them that GW2 is about Open World group content and massive 3 way PVP servers in WVWVW and that if they want to come for the raiding don't bother because between the balance and band aid application of tanks and healers that it's amateur hour.

No one should presume that Anet is simply selling it's End Game PVE scene as what attracts people from other games because it doesn't. That's not it's selling point and it never was. It's the things that Anet does different than everyone else that sells it, including what you would probably describe as the lack of balance.

Anyways, you can ignore the history of the game itself or impose your beliefs of what it should be. The average reasonable player has no illusions that all these balanced options exist, or ever will. That's not due to some amateur effort either. That's simply the way Anet decides to develop the game.

tldr:

Devs don't care about Balance.

I would actually agree with that because in a game without the holy trinity that has mostly low requirements to win it, it's unnecessary baggage. GW2 is frankly, pretty easy compared to what other MMO's throw at you, so the requirement to have a whole bunch of competitive builds for all kinds of content is very low. Why would they continually waste time trying to balance to a competitive level if it's not needed? I see no justification for it. If players demand it, it's only because of the unnecessary baggage they carry from other MMOs that aren't anything like GW2 in the first place.

I can just imagine it now, Dev ready the title of this thread and their response "So what's the problem?"

Purity of purpose. Scourge was advertised as a supportive spec that focuses on conditions and spreading barriers for allies. Reaper was advertised as a powerful juggernaut that was slow and selfish.

... and that has to do with how much DPS they do in what way? I don't see anything there that says one is more than the other. I think you're reading into something that isn't there to express dissatisfaction with Scourge not meeting your expectations.

Oh I'm satisfied with Scourge. It's pretty good in all gamemodes. I'm dissatisfied by Reaper. It's just compounded by the fact that it doesn't do more DPS than Scourge in the Power side at least. And this thing has been on for 2 years. Look at Firebrand and Dh. Both good Elite Specs that offer a different playstyle.

[Obtena.7952]

I still don't see what 'purity of purpose' has to do with how much DPS either spec does. Not every spec needs to satisfy every players whims. in fact, they can't. Are you even aware of what was meant when Anet said purity of purpose?

[Lahmia.2193]

Come on guys, you know how this works. Elite specs are over-tuned to begin with then they slowly nerf them down with each patch. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Vitali.5039]

@Lahmia.2193 said:Come on guys, you know how this works. Elite specs are over-tuned to begin with then they slowly nerf them down with each patch. Enjoy it while it lasts.

King Joko will prevent Scourge's nerfs!

[Zoltreez.6435]

@Lahmia.2193 said:Come on guys, you know how this works. Elite specs are over-tuned to begin with then they slowly nerf them down with each patch. Enjoy it while it lasts.

the difference is that toher classes are good in many things a nerf here and there wont hurt them that much...

necros on the other hand is the AOE dmg that they are good in and ONLY that they are good in if thats gets nerfed necro go back to the bench of underused bad classes.......

and necros are bored now of that bench after this many years sitting there.......

[Refia Montes.3205]

@Obtena.7952 said:I still don't see what 'purity of purpose' has to do with how much DPS either spec does. Not every spec needs to satisfy every players whims. in fact, they can't. Are you even aware of what was meant when Anet said purity of purpose?

Purposefully, Reaper is a Power Spec. Scourge is a supportive condi spec. Ain't it obvious that Scourge having more Power DPS is wrong?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JDNQLNYbNgjNAbvYBXwgGABgWA1ZoNEt0TsN2KLA-jhRBAB4pfAgnAAlq/c1+jyPzUC+wJBIAwBw5Nv5NP48zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8zP/8zPPA-e

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

Why Fell Beacon? You're not wielding a Torch and you have 0 condition damage, so you get 0 Expertise. The trait does literally nothing for you.

[Kam.4092]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Substatic.6958 said:whats power scourge build please

I used this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JDNQLNYbNgjNAbvYBXwgGABgWA1ZoNEt0TsN2KLA-jhRBAB4pfAgnAAlq/c1+jyPzUC+wJBIAwBw5Nv5NP48zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8zP/8zPPA-e

I sustained 32k DPS on the 4 million HP Golem, and did 40k+ bursts on the 1 million HP Golem.

It's pretty much just spamming Mainhand Dagger auto, and using Warhorn 5. It allows you to spam F2, F3 and F5.

The 3 Shade burst at the start spam hits 40k-80k with Desert Shroud, and it's the same for Ghastly Breach. The Power scaling of these 2 skills is absurd for a Condition focused Elite like Scourge is.

Well of Suffering is used because Well of Corruption has too long of a CD, and you don't run Blood Magic, so Wells are weaker anyway. I use Blood Fiend because it's just a great heal with DPS, I also don't use Sadistic Searing as Power Scourge. Shadow Fiend is amazing for both Condition and Power Scourge, because of the 10% Life Force on its skill, and the fact that Shadow Fiend Damage got buffed by 50% a while back.

The build is fun, but I don't really see the point outside of just wanting to mess around. I mean the build has a ton more CC than Condition Scourge, which may be helpful in Fractal and Dungeon pugs, but losing out on the amazing Condition DPS of Scourge with Epidemic is something you'd want to avoid.

Also Power Scourge is just harder to maintain if a target moves. It's honestly just a fun and silly build that I wouldn't run outside of Open World, and low Fractal scales. It may be better for Scale 40 Farm though since Condition Scourge does so much Burning, and the Effigy is immune to Burning.

Why Fell Beacon? You're not wielding a Torch and you have 0 condition damage, so you get 0 Expertise. The trait does literally nothing for you.

I didn't even notice xD. I rushed this. I got 34k today. I'd personally never run Power Scourge. I think Power Reaper is more practical and better. I got 24k with Axe at range though as Power Scourge.

It's a fun silly build. Power Reaper has more CC, and is good in Dungeons and Fractal pugs where people don't break bars. Power Scourge is punished devastatingly bad when a target moves VS Condition Scourge still doing high DPS With Torment doing more, etc, and Epidemic.

Instead of Fell Beacon I'd take Desert Empowerment. Also if there was a Support Scourge build, then I'd say Power would be the way to go, because it pumps out the most Barriers.

Also I was hitting 27k-28k with Power Reaper. It would be more like 26k though with less Chill uptime. I still find Power Reaper fun, and love the CC and burst. At least Power Reaper gets more buffs than nerfs.

[Obtena.7952]

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I still don't see what 'purity of purpose' has to do with how much DPS either spec does. Not every spec needs to satisfy every players whims. in fact, they can't. Are you even aware of what was meant when Anet said purity of purpose?

Purposefully, Reaper is a Power Spec. Scourge is a supportive condi spec. Ain't it obvious that Scourge having more Power DPS is wrong?

Purposefully? You know Anet made reaper PURPOSEFULLY a power spec? No I don't think you do. Even if they did, that STILL doesn't say it should have more DPS than Scourge; Anet has YET to demonstrate they respect the historical ranking of DPS among classes or the builds those classes have. I see no reason why they would ever care about DPS ranking, especially between builds for a specific class. It's simply a waste of their time to do so.

It's funny that people say reaper is a 'power spec' ... especially when reaper has a very respectable conditions output coupled to it's vanilla reaper build. Is it obvious that Scourge having more Power DPS is wrong? I don't think so, since nothing from Anet has set my expectations that it shouldn't be that way ... What is your excuse?

[Anchoku.8142]

From my perspective, Scourge trades Necromancer's non-scaling invulnerability skill that requires charging like adrenaline and is a transform that locks out utilities like Moa for condition damage and some group utility. It kind of makes sense if it feels glassier. Reaper gave up none of Necromancer's sustain and may have even more than core.

I am satisfied with Scourge, for now, while I explore its group utility.

[Obtena.7952]

What is sad this thread is that for 5 years, necro players have been complaining about how terrible their damage is, regardless of build or spec. Then Anet comes along and says "OK, we're listening" and give a spec that does very respectable damage ... and so now the complaint is that the good damage is on the wrong spec?

You gotta some special to not appreciate that. The fact is this ... necro never has been a good power spec, so if some spec is better as power than another is really like complaining about who should have got second place. It's irrelevant. If you want to play second place builds, you don't care what your DPS is anyways; you aren't interested in winning. Players don't get to pick what spec they want to be meta for them.

[Refia Montes.3205]

Uhm no. If you put like that, I'm never crying for Power Scourge nerfs, rather I'm asking for more Power Reaper buffs. I never complained on how good Scourge is. I'm complaining how bad they treat Reaper over the past 2 years for PvE. If things are supposed to be like this, then this is bad powercreep, ignoring HoT specs in favor of PoF specs. Can't we have a world where all specs are equally balanced and achieve there each purpose? Btw I'd like to play Reaper because of the aesthetic more than Scourge. I have no problems with other playing Scourge and I say I'm happy they like it. But I want to bring Reaper to group but their damage isn't just competitive enough. I'd rather play Power DH or Tempest if that's the case but I still want to play Reaper as well and let it shine where it supposed to be.

[FrostDraco.8306]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I still don't see what 'purity of purpose' has to do with how much DPS either spec does. Not every spec needs to satisfy every players whims. in fact, they can't. Are you even aware of what was meant when Anet said purity of purpose?

Purposefully, Reaper is a Power Spec. Scourge is a supportive condi spec. Ain't it obvious that Scourge having more Power DPS is wrong?

Purposefully? You know Anet made reaper PURPOSEFULLY a power spec? No I don't think you do. Even if they did, that STILL doesn't say it should have more DPS than Scourge; Anet has YET to demonstrate they respect the historical ranking of DPS among classes or the builds those classes have. I see no reason why they would ever care about DPS ranking, especially between builds for a specific class. It's simply a waste of their time to do so.

It's funny that people say reaper is a 'power spec' ... especially when reaper has a very respectable conditions output coupled to it's vanilla reaper build. Is it obvious that Scourge having more Power DPS is wrong? I don't think so, since nothing from Anet has set my expectations that it shouldn't be that way ... What is your excuse?

Again reaper is a power spec. Literally everything about the spec is tuned to power.

It's dishonest to say anything about the condi damage of reaper, when literally ALL of it is coming from the abuse of one trait. I like how you completely ignore EVERY OTHER trait, that is exclusively tuned, and effected by power. Hell even the change to cold shoulder only effect strikes, which is POWER damage.

The problem isnt scourge having more power dps than reaper specifically. The problem is that reaper is tuned for power damage and STILL falls behind. Scourge doesnt have a single power modifier and STILL way out dpses reaper, which literally has the best power dps weapon, and power dps modifiers.

It's almost like you either don't understand, or are purposely ignoring the issue. All in an attempt to get people to 'stop complaining'.

It doesn't change the fact that for 2 years anet has still failed to fix, or properly address the issues with core necro and reaper. That doesn't suddenly go away. Are you saying we should be grateful that they gave us a high damage condi/support spec? Something i never asked for and don't care for. I care for power reaper, same as others here. And until those are properly balanced we have every right, and reason to complain or address those two. It is very disrespectful to come here and tell someone they are wrong for wanting a build to be at least viable, simply because it's 'second' place, or that they have no 'interest in winning'. Especially when there is literally no reason for it not to have proper changes. You act like someone is asking for soldier necro to do 50k dps. No. We are asking for a full power (zerker for instance) to do comparable dps based on other classes with a zerk set up. That is not unreasonable.

No only is it presumptuous. It's egotistical to assume you have any knowledge on what they want at all.

But please tell me how im not interested in winning, when ive literally done every raid, every dungeon, every fractal, almost every HoT achievement, and PoF achievement. and i STILL play power reaper. Why? Because i like it.

No one is making you read these forums. And i think it's a tad bit out of your depth to claim people playing a particular build have no interest in dps or winning. Which is just plain in accurate. There is a reason people like myself and Brazil spend thousands of gold minmaxing and optimizing power reapers. We aren't running some mismashed spec with garbage damage stats. We are running a min maxed spec with possibly the best gear for that set up. How dare you sit here and claim we aren't worried about the dps, or health of the build. Just like we dont get to pick which specs are meta, you don't get to pick who cares about what.

You stepped out of line. Bloody hypocrite.

[Obtena.7952]

You can say it all you want, but the label 'power spec' doesn't actually mean anything; it's a player-made concept. I have never heard Anet label any build or specifically use that term. The issues you think exist with core or reaper have nothing to do with Scourge so the idea that there is something wrong with Scourge having 'the power DPS' build on this class is nonsense to begin with.

There isn't anything disrespectful pointing out the flaws in the thinking that people exhibit, especially if we have 5 years of game experience that contradict that thinking. Anet does not target any build for 'power spec'. Anet does not care for whatever build ranks highest in DPS. That's not how the game is developed or evolves. There is nothing egotistical by observing these things based on the history of the game. If Anet WANTED to make reaper the highest DPS power spec on this class, they would have MADE reaper the highest power DPS spec on this class. I don't need an ego to figure this out.

If you have interest in doing the highest DPS, you TAKE the highest DPS build available, regardless of what it is. This is not a new concept; this is the way the game has worked for every class since day 1. Again, this is not me being 'out of my depth'. It's simply observing how the game works. If you spent thousands of gold minmaxing power reapers AND expected that no game change would affect the state of it's DPS relative to other things, then YOU have made a fundamental error based on your lack of understanding on how this game, and MMO's in general, work and evolve over time.

Go ahead and worry about it ... that doesn't make it a relevant worry based on how the game works. If you play a second-rate DPS build and like it and are successful with it, then I don't even get the problem here. You just proved that the DPS that the build does really doesn't matter in the first place; a position I've held since the day I was told I was 'selfish' for playing non-meta builds. There isn't anything wrong with playing a build you like and winning with it; I believe that's how the game should be played and CAN be played.

[kKagari.6804]

@Obtena.7952 said:You can say it all you want, but the label 'power spec' doesn't actually mean anything; it's a player-made concept. I have never heard Anet label any build or specifically use that term. The issues you think exist with core or reaper have nothing to do with Scourge so the idea that there is something wrong with Scourge having 'the power DPS' build on this class is nonsense to begin with.

There isn't anything disrespectful pointing out the flaws in the thinking that people exhibit, especially if we have 5 years of game experience to draw on to why the thinking is flawed. Anet does not target any build for 'power spec'. Anet does not care for whatever build ranks highest in DPS. That's not how the game is developed or evolves. There is nothing egotistical by observing these things based on the history of the game. If Anet WANTED to make reaper the highest DPS power spec on this class, they would have MADE reaper the highest power DPS spec on this class. I don't need an ego to figure this out.

If you have interest in doing the highest DPS, you TAKE the highest DPS build available, regardless of what it is. This is not a new concept; this is the way the game has worked for every class since day 1. Again, this is not me being 'out of my depth'. It's simply observing how the game works. If you spent thousands of gold minmaxing power reapers AND expected that no game change would affect the state of it's DPS relative to other things, then YOU have made a fundamental error based on your lack of understanding on how this game, and MMO's in general, work and evolve over time.

Go ahead and worry about it ... that doesn't make it a relevant worry based on how the game works. If you play a second-rate DPS build and like it and are successful with it, then I don't even get the problem here. You just proved that the DPS that the build does really doesn't matter in the first place.

Why do you capitalize random words?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Ignore Obtena. He's a troll that thinks he works for ANet.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:Ignore Obtena. He's a troll that thinks he works for ANet.

No, I'm just someone that actually makes relevant observations on how the game actually works; a stark contrast to the way people invent how they think the game is and impose those ideas onto Anet like it's relevant to them.

I mean, if you have examples where Anet maintained a status quo for DPS rank because they labeled something "power spec", feel free to show them ... otherwise, just keep thinking wrong I guess. I suppose I'm so bad at observing how the game works that I should still be expecting a condition to be added to dagger to fix LF regen in Scourge too, AMIRITE?