[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[mPascoal.4258]

Honestly defending or liking time gates makes literally no sence to me. Time gates do only one thing, remove player choice. This is what this is about.I play this game since release, never have I felt like I couldn't play the game the way I wanted until this major time gate. I am literally being forced to a pace that does not fit me because Arena Net believes it's the "wrong" pace?When people feel like they don't have a choise they tend to leave. There is a reason people try to get out of governments that remove choice aka dictatorships. Yeah this is not on the same scale I guess but its the same reasons

"Oh I have the choice of not getting it" if they didnt want me to get they wouldn't even added it in the 1st place. I also genenually want to get it. They want players to get it, but its their choice if they dont, so WHY can't they choose WHEN to get it? It makes literally no sence!! They want to try sell me skins for it, as that is one of their major incomes on the gemstore, so why would they make people wait for it!? Role play!? I can do that without the time gate as well

I don't get what discussion is needed here. They are taking away your choices and some seem happy with it, I'm actually mind blown

Also to the argument that there are other time gates in the game, it is true there are.. remind me where have people liked those as well.. right they haven't for the exact same reason, they feel like they dont have a choiceTime gates on the legendaries are also entirely different, because people have a lot of stuff to get for those. I need 300 provisional tokens for my legendary armor and I can only get 13 a day.. sure, but after I get those 13 I still a shit load of thing to do besides that, so it doesnt affect me the same way. Same can't be said for the Skyscale, has doing thee collections is the only way to get it and they dont give me anyhting else to work on that will be needed to get.This time gate was to a content that was a major advertase point of the episode (literally the 1st thing they have shown) and it affects the majority of the playerbase because it iswas accessiable to pretty much everyone that has been keeping up with the game, which is still the majority of the player base

Removing players choice is overall toxic for the game and there is no argument that anyone can present in favor of it. DON'T DO THIS TO YOUR PLAYERS! Your customers! The people that are invested, that had made friendships and some even families thanks to this game!WHY ARE YOU REMOVING PLAYERS CHOICE!?

Sorry the long rant but I have literally never been so dissapointed with anything game related than this. Never in my life of playing videos games I have felt like I didn't have a choice, and if I had I left the game. This game is on the knives edge for me after this and I will leave for sure if they pull another shit like this in the future. I might leave if they dont remove this one as well, as I feel I can't trust a company that wants to remove choice from me. Whenever that happens my choice will be to leave, as at least that one they can't take away from me

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@"Starfall Leyline.2481" said:I don't think it's so great a point, really. So you propose that it's okay for people to like (or dislike) time gates. Okay, let's apply that logic here. We've had 7 mounts, Seven (for emphasis), without major time-gates. Any time gates I recall were very minor, and I had pretty much any mount I wanted within 2 days if not less. So we've had 7 mounts which were far easier to get. Anet introduces one mount that caters to the people who actually like time-gates (which you have said is okay for them), and everything falls apart? Or can you just let people have this mount and enjoy their time gates? "No, because that affects everyone." So is it not actually okay for them to like time-gates? Self-pacing doesn't count as a time gate.

It's not as if there's a shortage of time-gated content to do. People have been doing it. And the people who haven't, haven't been doing it. Mounts have never been like that, so no one had any idea that this one would be. If you want to leave it at that, then the big problem here was the lack of transparency from ANet leading up to the episode and mount's launch.

I see it more as Anet introducing a specific type of content for this mount that not everyone appreciated. They did it once, effectively, but people are acting like that once is murder. While I used to be in the "no time gates" camp, the more I've seen this unfold, the less I care that the time gates are there, and the less compelling I find the arguments in favor of removing them. If you want an actual option that gives everyone what they want, they should have the collection line, or a gemstore unlock that just skips the achievements who don't want to wait.

While it's fine that you don't care if the time gates stay or go, that's not relevant to the people who want it to go. And again, it's not like we're asking to have the option to just buy our way to it, or fore-go the collections. While Collection 1 was a bit tedious, I think that 2 and 3, barring 3's odd time-gating, were very enjoyable, and a lot more like what we did with the Beetle all those months ago.

The content was designed to give a story-like experience of raising the Skyscale, and it does require effort, and time. That's not a bad thing either.

Except we did the same thing with the Beetle, without the time-gates. And no one minded that it seemed too quick because, well, considering some of the things that happened in Episode 3, a fast-growing Beetle didn't exactly seem all that out of place. And you're right, it does require effort and time. Even without the time-gates, so far I've already spent about 15 hours on Collections 1, 2 and 3. Removing the time-gate doesn't automatically mean obtaining the mount becomes a breeze.

If you really want an experience that fits into the story, it's already been suggested to make it so the "feed 3 times a day" mechanic would tie in to in-game days, meaning about every 4 hours IRL. I'd personally not mind this method, as it would both add depth and immersion to the in-game side, and remove the long waiting times out of game.

[FuguZombie.2938]

@"Starfall Leyline.2481" said:

I don't think it's so great a point, really. So you propose that it's okay for people to like (or dislike) time gates. Okay, let's apply that logic here. We've had 7 mounts, Seven (for emphasis), without major time-gates. Any time gates I recall were very minor, and I had pretty much any mount I wanted within 2 days if not less. So we've had 7 mounts which were far easier to get. Anet introduces one mount that caters to the people who actually like time-gates (which you have said is okay for them), and everything falls apart? Or can you just let people have this mount and enjoy their time gates? "No, because that affects everyone." So is it not actually okay for them to like time-gates? Self-pacing doesn't count as a time gate.

I said it's okay for people to like time gates and have their own opinions on them, I don't personally like them so I'm going to argue that they shouldn't be there for items that are not cosmetic or legendary/prestige items. I apologize if I was unclear on that but what I meant was I understand why people might like them and that's fine that they have that opinion and want to voice it, but I have my opinions that I'm going to voice at the same time.My question is what is it about the time gate that people like so much? Most of the reasons I get from people is in regards to limiting grind time but you don't NEED a time gate for that. That's what I mean by people doing things at there own pace.

I see it more as Anet introducing a specific type of content for this mount that not everyone appreciated. They did it once, effectively, but people are acting like that once is murder. While I used to be in the "no time gates" camp, the more I've seen this unfold, the less I care that the time gates are there, and the less compelling I find the arguments in favor of removing them. If you want an actual option that gives everyone what they want, they should have the collection line, or a gemstore unlock that just skips the achievements who don't want to wait.

People are voicing their frustration with it. Anet tried something different and many people are unhappy with it. That's why were here, even if the collection doesn't get changed this time there's future mounts to think about. If we don't express our dislike of this content this could become a new normal, and that's something a lot of people who like to avoid.Another option would be to time gate like ascended items are time gated. Have items be craft once per day items for those who like time gates but also have those item available on tp at a high price for those who don't.

The content was designed to give a story-like experience of raising the Skyscale, and it does require effort, and time. That's not a bad thing either.

I personally like the story aspect of things, it's cute and wholesome, and it's the one argument in favor of timegating that I can get on board with. However, my issue is that this is a functional item that has use and will continue to have more use as the story goes on. There's going to be an advantage to having this, and the time gate plus long collections turns more casual players off. As much as I like realism, practicality is also important.

[Rukario.1695]

@"CJtheBigBear.9610" said:

If you really want an experience that fits into the story, it's already been suggested to make it so the "feed 3 times a day" mechanic would tie in to in-game days, meaning about every 4 hours IRL. I'd personally not mind this method, as it would both add depth and immersion to the in-game side, and remove the long waiting times out of game.

I could live with this. Even if a person doesn't have time, you can log in for 3 minutes to feed it and go back offline if you're busy.

[FuguZombie.2938]

@"CJtheBigBear.9610" said:

If you really want an experience that fits into the story, it's already been suggested to make it so the "feed 3 times a day" mechanic would tie in to in-game days, meaning about every 4 hours IRL. I'd personally not mind this method, as it would both add depth and immersion to the in-game side, and remove the long waiting times out of game.

Compromises! Having a count down of time instead of just every 24 hours sounds like a good way of appeasing most people!

[cygnarblue.3687]

The thing is with the sky scale is it’s not a game changer. If it was a mount I could use in WvW aswell as pvp then yes I can see it would be worth the grind but as far as I can see it’s special skill is hovering .I loved the quest line for the griffin mount as it was really fun but this is mind numbing boring .if you want to get your player base engaged and positive then grinding and time gateing is not the answer . I thought maybe once you got the mount then you would get access to new parts of the game in the air or the hover mode was part of some new air combat system but no. For someone who works and has family to look after ( I’m 51 by the way) this is far the worst thing I could be doing with my free time in GW2. The devs have really dropped the ball on this one if they think this is what the player base wants .

[Jimarius.2843]

phew, yall just got anet'd.

[Rukario.1695]

As of now I'm primarily disappointed that nothing much has been said or done since this began. Most of the gating/time constraint has already passed naturally for anyone who has decided to suck it up and deal with it since the beginning.

I still feel like I'm wasting time, and that's exactly why I'm even here right now.

If this had been resolved on the first day (lets be realistic here, it would not take much effort to fix this,) I would instead be in-game enjoying my day off as I do world completion on my other 4 alternate characters with the Skyscale (This is what I had planned to do from the beginning.)

However, instead we're sitting here and I'm at the TP flipping materials. Mainly because I don't know if any more gold would be required.

Be that as it may, waiting is still a lot less fun.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Rukario.1695 said:As of now I'm primarily disappointed that nothing much has been said or done since this began. Most of the gating/time constraint has already passed naturally for anyone who has decided to suck it up and deal with it since the beginning.

I still feel like I'm wasting time, and that's exactly why I'm even here right now.

If this had been resolved on the first day (lets be realistic here, it would not take much effort to fix this,) I would instead be in-game enjoying my day off as I do world completion on my other 4 alternate characters with the Skyscale -- of which none of the 4 alts have exceeded 10%

Yeah... while I'm not 100% satisfied with the response so far, at least we got some response. Shows they're at least watching and listening.

Plus, the moderation team has been very quick at removing insulting or derailing posts once they're reported, so their involvement, while not the greatest, is still a lot better than most other dev companies I've interacted with before.

[Rukario.1695]

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Rukario.1695 said:As of now I'm primarily disappointed that nothing much has been said or done since this began. Most of the gating/time constraint has already passed naturally for anyone who has decided to suck it up and deal with it since the beginning.

I still feel like I'm wasting time, and that's exactly why I'm even here right now.

If this had been resolved on the first day (lets be realistic here, it would not take much effort to fix this,) I would instead be in-game enjoying my day off as I do world completion on my other 4 alternate characters with the Skyscale -- of which none of the 4 alts have exceeded 10%

Yeah... while I'm not 100% satisfied with the response so far, at least we got

some

response. Shows they're at least watching and listening.

Plus, the moderation team has been very quick at removing insulting or derailing posts once they're reported, so their involvement, while not the

greatest

, is still a lot better than most other dev companies I've interacted with before.

This is true. There is that silver lining.

[Fundor.2098]

So far the collections are really entertaining and the feeling of raising, caring and bonding with your skyscale pup is really well established!Bonus praise for the second day collection, Saving Skyscales, for having us revisit old content in a new light and traveling all around Tyria. Personally I'm hoping for more collections like this one in the future, possibly with a bit deeper lore twist.

The time gate does still feel quite a lot overdone though. The best way to keep the feeling of the collections and still address the issue would probably be to go with either the daily reset time gate where it would fit best (like right after you've hatched and taken care of your skyscale pup) and maybe the 4-day feeding part (though rather tweaked to two days with the daily reset included), or with only the 4-day feeding part and the charged quartz requirement, which can be passed by buying the required items with enough gold. The length of the collections does already stimulate enough time and effort passing in a video game, so personally I don't think this kind of heavy time locking is really necessary. If anything, it harms the wanted outcome in feeling the collections, as people (myself included) try to rush them through to make it before the daily reset.

[Daishi.6027]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:As a crazy gambler and an achievement hunter, I can assure you the consequences are the same, "I need to gamble" can be just as draining as "I need to complete the latest collection/achievement". One is made out of malicious intent, but it has similar effects.

First hand accounts don't really mean much, and it really doesn't matter and this is to big a topic to talk about here so I'll try and be brief. The reason why one is a problem (gambling) is because it's a possibly infinite well. Statistical rolls are odds, you can roll 100 times and not get the thing you want. Striving for that goal will always be harder to stop because after a while you run into the sunk cost fallacy, and if you already are prone to addiction it's even worse, but even normal healthy individuals can fall into it too. This is dangerous because it can easily trap people who would otherwise not engage in that behavior; if it wasn't for their favorite online games pushing it in front of them.

Striving for a goal and pushing towards it has no sunk cost. The "I need this!" feel may be similar, but it is a linear road and you will 100% obtain it. It is easier to back out of because with linear progression and knowing "how many more X" until you achieved your goal makes it far easier for people to schedule themselves around it. In most cases healthy individuals will have no issue pulling away or managing their time. The comparison between the two has been well documented in peer reviewed journals that go as far back as 2010 (not specifically about loot boxes per se' but when it comes to striving for outcome preordained vs gambling). There is an issue involving game addiction and linear progressions, but again; this is different from the traps of gambling, and inherent to all video games.

We both agree that one is malicious but I don't think the above is very relevant to the time gate discussion, but it's necessary to point out in relation to your claim that "people like the time gate because it makes them stop" and their inability to do so themselves. Linear progression not having sunk cost will always be easier to pull away from. Which is why if ask me to pick the lesser of the two evils I'd say time gates. However, neither is still preferable, and again to those who cannot control themselves with linear progression, needs profressional help.

@Deihnyx.6318 said:The mere fact that they are still using timegating is an indicator that it is working. Bitter people are legion in the forums, but I doubt they're that many in game. Or at least, I doubt that many people are going to leave the game forever because of it. All MMOs have some form of BS like that.

Time gating until now has been minimal. The biggest equivalent being charged quartz, something a very small amount of players needed until guild halls, and was still obtainable as loot. I remember one Wintersday me and my friends joking about getting flooded with them from only doing the jumping puzzle. I barely count it, and even then it was only an issue for cele builds when it came out because it was a time gate and people had to wait, but it was something destined to not be a time gate and more of a rare resource. Anything else that is technically time gated, lets say behind a world boss or event, either let you cap out so long as you had enough resources to purchase whatever you needed. OR you could do it multiple times in the day. OR was able to be completely bypassed with gold (like ascended crafting mats)

• The key difference in this is that you were still actively perusing the goal, and could continue to pursue the goal instead of telling you to "go away and come back at reset" allowing players to acquire what they wanted on their own terms. Yes all game devs do BS things, and that is why the community needs to call them out on it like a lot of us are doing. You're right I doubt people will quit over it, much like how I don't think people quit being under blizzards banner even after the whole "you guy's don't have phones" thing or the garbage destiny pulled. As for people in game complaining; in the new map, and the map with the sanctuary, people are frequently complaining in both /map and /say. That is usually when there isn't someone demeaning them simply for being outspoken for not liking it.

@Deihnyx.6318 said:I really don't agree, many raiders are taking a break right now because the last wing was a little underwhelming and the content is just too slow to get out. You can only do the same content without a specific goal for so long. Same for WvW or Fractals.There's a reason raids (and WvW) are so heavily timegated.

I admit I'm not to big into the raid scene, and these people would be that way regardless of waiting for the skyscale or not. If anything that's worse, instead of having a toy they can play around with from the new release, they log in take 3 seconds to feed their pet, and then what? If a specific scene has a problem, that problem remains regardless of the time gate on the sky scale. Also how do you figure WvW is time gated? Because you get skirmish pips every 5 min? Because events only run at certain times? Because reward tracks? If so I think we're realllly stretching the definition of a time gate.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

Quartz Crystal Formation are accountshared?wth? so you dont can gather 25 a day what you need for the daily Charged Quartz Crystal.

its getting better and better.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@Stalkingwolf.6035 said:Quartz Crystal Formation are accountshared?wth? so you dont can gather 25 a day what you need for the daily Charged Quartz Crystal.

its getting better and better.

You can get them off the trading post for about 4g 50s a stack, but that's last I checked, could be higher now because of price spike. Without that though, no, you probably couldn't.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:

@Stalkingwolf.6035 said:Quartz Crystal Formation are accountshared?wth? so you dont can gather 25 a day what you need for the daily Charged Quartz Crystal.

its getting better and better.

You can get them off the trading post for about 4g 50s a stack, but that's last I checked, could be higher now because of price spike. Without that though, no, you probably couldn't.

yes i know that i can buy them. but somehow, maybe, it would be nice we can gather that stuff ourself. for example enough for 1 daily cooldown.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

@"Deihnyx.6318" said:"It sucks, but is it really that bad?"

Not at all.

[EmperorMoth.2709]

First off I want to list some of the things about the skyscale that I have come to find. These are entirely my opinion, so please don't rag on me too hard. For reference, I am as far into the collection as you can be at this point. I've helped a ton of people with their collections and cheered them on despite the set backs.

Good things

• The mount is neat looking. The animations are great. It is well weighted. Phenomenal job on making this creature and bringing them into the game.
• The collections have been fun (save for the repeating of certain areas for things like eggs and scales).
• It is cute to watch the little thing grow.
• With the use of the magic it makes flying around on it feel like actually flying.
• It has certainly brought people together.

Bad Things

• The wall cling can be super annoying, I often end up clinging to a small out cropping when trying to land instead. Not a huge issue, the wall cling is neat but it can be very frustrating.
• The hard time gates at resets are no fun at all, I don't mind collecting or buying off the tp but I really do not enjoy the hard time gates.
• Due to the fact there are 247 items to collected, and the time gating, I feel the skyscale should be able to do more. Don't get me wrong, the skyscale is neat. I love the design and the thought. With the frustration of the wall cling problem, the fact that it is slow, and it is a lesser hybrid between the springer and the gryphon, I don't feel that it warrants such time gating that is similar to highly unique items. If the time gating is in place specifically to keep it as a shiny status symbol this would make sense, but I don't feel like making it a status symbol would be super great for the community or respectful to future players.
• It will be difficult for newer players or those who do not have the time to put into the collections before the daily reset. It took me 3 hours or so for the first collection sequence (guides were being made as I was working on it), I finished 30 minutes before reset the day the episode dropped. Many people did not. This leads to people becoming frustrated that they are behind. Many have given up on it all together after finding out the next collection sequences.
• Charged Quartz, not a big issue, and in the future it will be less of a problem because people will know ahead of time they need to be doing their daily quartz charging. However, it was a bit off-putting with the combination of other time gating issues.
• This mount was really hyped up, and I think that if we had been given more information before hand then things would have went better with the community. Communication is important, I understand that they did not want to spoil anything, but a simple "hey guys, this mount is similar to a really high achievement and so we have set quite a few things that you will need to do before you can unlock it" might have helped ease some of the bad taste many people have.

Now for my Experience

I played the episode as soon as it dropped, I enjoy the hype, there was a ton of energy and working with people to figure things out is one of the main reasons I play this game. I played through the episode and enjoyed the story, the graphics were stunning in the epilogue portion. As soon as I finished the story and started working on the skyscale things went down hill. With the first collection I had a great time, and even with the next but then I started learning that there were was more to do and...I need to finish it before reset or my choice in when I progress will be taken away from me. At that point I put off exploring and enjoying the map to feverishly try and complete what I needed for the day to unlock the next set of achievements.

I know what you are thinking, I didn't have to complete it. Which is true. I could have taken a break and looked at the beautiful burning forest or ate some dinner because I skipped lunch but if I didn't finish by reset then I would be wasting a good deal of time for the rest of the next reset. I did not want to fall behind, no one does. So I raced to the finish, which is entirely my own decision. While many might believe time gating things promotes the forcible slowing down of progression to make the player enjoy what is around them it did the opposite for me. So I unlocked the next collection at reset, and burned through that so I could sleep easy. Did I have fun with the collections? Sure. At the same time, realizing there was even more time gating within the next achievements took that fun away. Now I was playing because I felt like I had to. I am not saying it is anet's job to deliver fun, but it certainly helps people keep playing the game.

While we don't entirely know the decision making behind the forced time gating (as there has been no word on why they did this so far), I think most of us can agree that the intention, ultimately, was to make us slow down and enjoy what is in front of us. It wasn't until the spirit shard freeze was lifted (I have my PoF masteries maxed), and I went back to the map to farm some items and hang out with the community, that I actually took the time to slow down. It was then that I really found myself enjoying things and appreciating the new episode.

Final Note

In the livestream today they discussed the new episode. The skyscale was not mentioned, however, the topic of allowing players to work at their own pace was. The team was asked about the new players that would now be able to go directly (perhaps even within an hour) from the previous episode to the new one and how the developer team felt about departing so quickly from such a somber moment to the new episode? The dev team mentioned that they wanted players to be allowed to work at their own pace. Yes, they could go through the episodes quickly, back to back even, and they may lose some of the deeper emotion that was such a big part of that long break that we had to wait when playing it as it was released but that was okay.

I am, in no way, trying to take away from the all the hard work and passion put into what the team does for us. Thank you guys for all your hard work. I really love the new map, I really love a lot of things about the new content. Please, please, reconsider the hard time gating. Or perhaps, if not that, then let the skyscale become more than it is now. Raise the flight ceiling, give the thing some more flight juice, make it epic because the community would really appreciate it. I hope my reply does not get lost in the thread, as I put a great deal of work into it.

[Aerlen.5326]

@Rukario.1695 said:

@"Aerlen.5326" said:yOu cAn AsK fOr HeLp WiTh SkYsCaLe

Not a SINGLE group in LFG, everyone I know is past what I'm doing AND several group events are broken.

What now? This is exactly what my concern was.

What exactly is broken? Personally heard of no issues aside from people who had a problem getting something to freeze them in ice.

As for people being beyond what you are doing, I suggest getting help from a guild. At most you need 3 ~ 4 people, except for the Djinns and the single META that is required -- however you can complete the Djinn section without fighting the champions, it should be relatively easier avoiding those.

Vabbi has had issues all day.

This is not soloable. If it was, I'd forgive the timegate 100%. Timegates suck but if you can do it on your own time at your own pace, fine. I don't need the mount on day one.

This also involves a meta that people don't like to do so, like I was afraid would end up being the case, this is a timegated "better do it in the first month" quest that has steps that require large groups of people. Large groups who will not be around to help once they get their skyscale.

Look, I'm not against epic collection quests like this but I know the fickle nature of this player base and know "get your guild to help!" isn't always going to work. Stop making content that takes an army to get something.

[CJtheBigBear.9610]

@"Aerlen.5326" said:Vabbi has had issues all day.

This is not soloable. If it was, I'd forgive the timegate 100%. Timegates suck but if you can do it on your own time at your own pace, fine. I don't need the mount on day one.

This also involves a meta that people don't like to do so, like I was afraid would end up being the case, this is a timegated "better do it in the first month" quest that has steps that require large groups of people. Large groups who will not be around to help once they get their skyscale.

Look, I'm not against epic collection quests like this but I know the fickle nature of this player base and know "get your guild to help!" isn't always going to work. Stop making content that takes an army to get something.

I think the time-gate is going to directly make things worse in that sense, too. To be quite honest, I didn't mind going back and helping others on events required for the griffon, because I finished it so quick. I was like, "Well, I've got it now. Now what?" And the first logical step was to go back and help everyone else.

I personally wouldn't mind going back to help after I get my Skyscale, but I feel like I'd completely understand if some people thought, "Man, I'm finally done. Time to NEVER touch this again.", because the time-gating does really have the ability to wear you down after a few days.

[Dreddo.9865]

@PervMonk.4891 said:

@Dreddo.9865 said:Took me over 5h to get the first part of the mount content - that was along doing map events and enjoying the great content ANET delivered. My personal experience made me wonder how is possible that people come here and complain about the collection being 'time-gated' while it is long and tedious to complete, even with a guide in hand. I don't understand the rush, as I don't understand why some come here and complain there is no ...new content in the game. But of course if you burn out yourself and skip the fun part, it is your problem and not the game designers' or the rest of us.

Great job ANET.

did you even see the other collectionsand after each collection you have to wait until reset to start the next one

Yes I did and I understand it's a long road until completion but really there is no rush. I won't stop playing GW2 for the next couple of weeks so I will finally unlock this mount and in parallel will also be enjoying the content.

[Faaris.8013]

I sure hope that I can trade the Skyscale for a legendary amulet or ring when I'm done. I wouldn't mind forging the Skyscale together with a Mystic Tribute to get something useful. Doesn't even need to have an aura.

Seriously, I don't really care about the timegate, the collections are pretty good. But what all this for? A dragon mount that cannot even fly and has no advantage over other mounts in combination. Unless there is some surprise that makes it a flying mount, I will prefer the griffon. And all the stuff that we do for the Skyscale is a bit overkill for a mediocre item. I did Aurora and think it was worth it. So far, I don't think the Skyscale is worth the effort.

In other News: Suicide rates in Divinity's Reach are exploding.

[Kidel.2057]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Rukario.1695 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

1) A mount being a mount does not mean it can't have prestige "requirements". Because it hasn't been done before doesn't automatically mean it won't. As I said, I do agree the marketing didn't properly prepare to it, but I also -know- that with this community it would have changed nothing. People wanting a mount cause it's cool would have had the same complains, minus this one. Look at the gryphon gold sink in old threads.

2) We played 6 years of a game without it, and we were happy. The prospect of working towards improving the experience and "convenience" is a normal design in MMOs. You "work" hard for little added convenience. If you don't want that convenience, or if it's not worth it, you have the option not to do it at all. It's not a job.

3) If you wanna go that way... I work often way more than 40 hours a week. Normal weekdays, and I love raids. Raids reset at 1 am or 2 am, where it's the most fun to raid. Highly annoying for me, but that doesn't mean it should be changed to match my expectation, because then someone else wouldn't be unable to do reset. They cannot make everyone happy.But anyway, this argument changes nothing when it comes to timegatesLet's assume no timegate: It takes you 15 days to do it at your own pace. It will take a "no life" an entire day and they'll have it 15 days before you.Let's assume timegate: Let's say it takes you 3 days for each collection. 15 days + 8 days of timegate = 23 days. For a "no life", they'll get it in 8 days. Still 15 days before you.Working or not working affects everyone the same way. Actually, it is better for people who don't have a whole day, as it can get a little easier to catch up on the no life people.So really, I know this argument is being thrown around here, but it just doesn't work. If you work and have a busy life, you will always be behind. There is nothing you can do and it's not the MMOs fault.

4) Not everything in a MMO is meant for everyone. It just isn't. Seasonal events are temporary. "timegated", and there's a pretty good reason for that. So if they wanted to but couldn't? Well again, too bad. But they can also realize it doesn't matter, that they'll be able to get it in just a little bit longer, just like the mount here.

1) Artificially blocking people on purpose from participating in content they wish to engage in is not what I would call

Prestige Requirements

-- If that's the case, make the collection LONGER or HARDER. I will do it, I do not care.

2) Playing the game without mounts for 6 years? I don't know if it the time gap between Core and PoF was 6 years, however I already am well aware of the pain of running everywhere on foot. I finished Map Completion 4 weeks after Core released, it took 250 hours. You do not see me upset that mounts were added just because I dedicated 250 hours to traversing difficult slopes and odd geometry within various maps.

3) I'm glad you have a compatible schedule that lets you play the game the way you are comfortable playing. I, however, do not. No one's personal experience is the same as another and that was my point. None of us give a kitten about who gets the mount first. Why are you insinuating that? Where have I even said that?

4) You're now comparing apples and oranges. I'm finished discussing this.

1) It's not. It's hollow. But instead of blaming Anet, blame the "NERF EVERYTHING" crowd that doesn't understand that oh no builds are there to be experimented with and you're supposed to actually get good in a video game to get prestige rewards. Maybe -then- we could get more meaningful content.So instead two solutions always: gold sink (= time sink or credit card sink) or timegate + collectaton. Pick your poison.

2) My point is that it's all entirely optional. Useless mount or not, It doesn't matter. You want it, here are the requirement, you don't want it? There's better anyway. The "optional" nature of the mount makes it comparable to Aurora to me.

3) I just said I wasn't comfortable with how reset was handled for raids. However, I do understand that it is literally impossible to please everyone own schedule and life balance, so I will never blame Anet for that. I always have the option to not do it.In this case though, the requirements are not out of reach even for someone who works a lot. There are people who work full time and still are getting all their raids done every week, people who get all their WvW chests done or PVP done every week. The mount is not going anywhere, it's gonna be there in one month or two, it's 100% compatible with a busy life.

4) Timegates are timegates, and the one I was discussing before about SAB is a seasonal timegate event that does bring a lot of "stress" and "rush" for people who absolutely want it now immediately otherwise everything is lost forever. Same situation here.

It should not be comparable to Aurora. No mount is a legendary.

I fixed that cause I was expecting this answer and didn't want to start that discussion again but:It has everything legendary but the name. Absolutely everything. It has the time associated to it, lots of collections, and potentially cost.

Literally the only issue was that it was badly marketed. But it was free content also, nobody "lost" money over this so it doesn't deserve all the outrage anyway.(yes yes yes you paid for PoF expecting a living season but nobody knew the living season would come with mounts, argument void)

You forgot the most important part, that coincidentally is what this mount lacks:

advantages

. And not only that.

1) A legendary weapon is the strongest you can get. This mount is not.2) A legendary weapon has a unique skin that can't be topped by anything on the TP. This mount will have skins to buy.3) A legendary weapon allows for stat change and upgrade swap, being equivalent to countless ascended ones. This mount is worse then a Springer, with

an annoying auto grab that makes climbing paradoxically harder (since you can't land on small overhangs to gain stamina).

Keep in mind that a Springer is like a fine/blue weapon that you buy from an npc. And it's better than your "legendary" mount.

I don't think that an honest person could say that this mount is worth the effort. And don't give me the "so don't do it". I'm already past step 3 and I care enough about this game to give my criticism when it's needed.

I would discuss this, as I agree with some of the points you made (the climbing is not great), but I believe this gets a little out of topic.Although I will totally say don't do it if you don't want it :P, but I do appreciate people genuinely caring about the game in their criticism.

It's cool, I like to have honest discussions :)Second day of feeding for me. I hope by the time this thing is adult it can at least get a buff.

My main concerns do not involve timegating (I just find it unfair that it's based on resets instead of actual time), but the fact that we are doing a huge collection for a vanity mount.

Make it useful, not just cool

[yann.1946]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Rukario.1695 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:If you want to give negative feedback, let other people contradict said feedback. Especially when we're down a level where definition are twisted in such a way where they don't make sense anymore. Optional means you don't need it to progress in the game or do anything in the game. It does not mean that the requirements should be optional. Otherwise let's just unlock it all for everyone instantly and yeah have fun for 5 minutes and everyone finds someone else to complain about an hour later.

People don't have to agree with you. You made your point but I don't happen to think it's valid. There is no "problem" because there's no constraint. You -choose- to stress yourself over rushing collections -if- you want it as fast as possible, but NOTHING forces you to but yourself.

1) Pretty much what is happening here.2) That is factually true3) Also factually trueNothing but to remind people that they get WAY over their head and blow things out of proportion as always. Which again, is a counter argument I'm allowed to make.

I'm not providing any negative feedback, (negative in light of the current state of the collection, albeit) the only thing I have done so far is explain what time-gates are, what they cause, and why they shouldn't be around for anything except Legendary-tier equipment and accessories. That is not negative feedback, it is simply feedback that a large chunk of people agree with.

The only reason I have to keep explaining anything at all is because the same baseless arguments are being used that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual problem, literally beating around the bush instead of confronting what the issue is. By the time a full page of this thread is done everything has been explained, and then the next page starts and it's just a fresh hot-heap of a mess again with the same arguments and explanations that already took place 30 minutes ago.

A time-gate is not a requirement, it's an artificial setback. If you seriously think it's a requirement to sit there on your thumbs all day, then you should start asking for more time-gated content on all new releases. If that makes you happy, then fine, but I seriously doubt you would want that.

No one said to unlock it for everyone instantly, no one is talking about complaints about other mishaps in the past. This is something you have decided to discuss that doesn't have anything to do with the thread. We do not want to be instantly given the mount, most of us do not want the collections changed at all. We want the time constraints removed so it doesn't screw with out daily schedules.

Simple.

People don't have to agree with me, you're right. But at the same time if you're going to try and denounce valid points with nothing but stuffing you're pulling out of the "pillow that is yesterday," then... I'm going to again reiterate on my stance. Even if you fail to comprehend anything, maybe someone else will have the switch flip in their head where something finally registers correctly.

This whole time constraint / time-gate issue has nothing to do with you or anyone who does not have a problem with it. If you do not have a problem with it and it has not bothered you because it never affected you

at all

, then honestly there is no reason to be here stirring a storm because you're bored. If the time constraint never bothered you now, then it's never going to bother you when it's removed. 1+1=2

1), 2), 3) ... in all honesty that just shows how much of a troll you are and why your responses have lacked any discussion-worthy material that is relevant to how tiem constraints do or do not affect your daily schedule. Why are you here?

First, everytime someone calls someone else a troll over not agreeing with them, it doesn't make me want to try to make a step forward (which I've actually been doing earlier in this thread), even when I agree with them. This way of trying to win arguments has been a cancer fast spreading that has reached political spheres and is putting us in the situation we are in today, where no middle ground can ever be found. It leads nowhere to always assume that someone's motivation must be trolling, and even worse to try and stop them from talking.

Second, you're illustrating perfectly in your first two paragraphs the issue with your approach. You start a conversation assuming to be a spreader of truth by "explaining" why something is wrong. There is no "I think" something wrong, only a "explanation".However, the actual "explanation" stops at what timegates are and how it might affect people. As soon as you bring a concept or good or bad, it becomes opinion and what you think is best with the experience you have.So your opinion seems to be that since it affects people in a bad way, they're doing it "wrong". I respect that, but my answer is basically always the same. You cannot please everyone. No matter their choice, gold sink, time sink, challenge, "insta reward", gem shop. Not matter, it WILL affect people negatively. So since your only point in your opinion is that it affects people who work a lot (not true for everyone) I therefore consider it invalid. Not a reading issue, a difference of opinions.

As to the bold claim that it doesn't affect anyone else to remove timegates, this is where it get interesting.

• Some people -actually- like timegates, it gives them time to breathe otherwise they would be doing stuff non stop. Some people cannot stop themselves. And before saying they need some self control, let me ask you if you agree that governments should regulate lootboxes (i'm not getting into that at all, but it's a remarkable way to test people consistency in what they think is "right"). To me, this "self control issue" is no better or worse than someone who feels sad because it will take them more time to get their content.
• Timegates make sense for Anet at the end of a season, as there's most likely going to be a game between now and next episode, and they do want people to keep playing the game as much as possible (hence why, the collection goes everywhere, not just stick to the map). There again, players can argue that it's dumb, but statistically, even though I do not have proof of that, there are more players playing now, and spending money on gemstore, that there was a month ago and that there will be in a month or two.
• As to why it impacts me, let me say that I want the game to live as long as possible as I enjoy it immensely, and I consider Anet's logic valid if their goal is to keep people in game. I do -not- like the timegate "for the timegate" and i've said it many times, but unless someone here comes with a crazy idea to ensure the game won't be bleeding people within the next few months before the next season, I'd much rather get a beefy, long lasting goal to look forward to to ensure i will stay motivated.And sorry to that, but when I'm balancing that to a few days of wait, I just can't help but considering the demand invalid.Oh and also, I'm tired of 'Eater of Souls' kind of outrages when something designed by Anet "needs" to be changed "absolutely" otherwise Revoluzion. Like there's a point where feedback turns into unhealthy anger and we are in it once again.

And yeah well, 1) 2) 3) are still true, troll or not. The way people can start a general outrage over very little things is genuinely fascinating. Unlike you, I've made many steps forward by agreeing multiple time that yes marketing could have done a better job and yes timegate is not exactly "epic" but at the end of the day if you get down to the basics of the issue, the following statement applies: "It sucks, but is it really that bad?"

I think a 4th point for this time gate is both the more natural feeling of the dragon growing up. (although it doesn't have to be at reset)And as a fifth point that it boosts the charged crystal economy.

[Kidel.2057]

I think all of us agree that the timegate should be real time (or in-game time) and not a reset.

Even people that don't want timegate at all would accept a fair system for timegate not based on resets.

And we can all agree that the mount needs some buffs/reworks. I wish they did an open beta weekend.

[Thundabolt.8541]

@Kidel.2057 said:I think all of us agree that the timegate should be real time (or in-game time) and not a reset.

Even people that don't want timegate at all would accept a fair system for timegate not based on resets.

And we can all agree that the mount needs some buffs/reworks. I wish they did an open beta weekend.

Agreed here! Link the timegate to in-game time, not real-life time! Then it's more manageable for the rest of the people I play GW2 with!