With the focus on Soulbeast, did we forget about Holo?

mortrialus.3062 · June 14, 2019

@coro.3176 said:
@"mortrialus.3062" said:
I genuinely don't know how much more math or what kind of math I'd need to do to mathematically prove how over tuned healing turret has been and has always been.

It's totally in-line with other heals:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
15s (and can be reduced to 12!) cooldown. Cleanses more condi, heals more. No combo field, but also doesn't need to be comboed, slightly longer cast time, but not by much, since HT takes longer than it's listed 3/4s to activate and overcharge.

just as one example.

Mending has been buffed and buffed and buffed to being crazy high healing, and great utility too for a healing skill, but even the highest healing can't compete with literally zero skill required like Healing Signet. Especially when you're dealing with builds like Meta Spellbreaker that go out of their way to be deliberately under enemy fire 100% of the time and thus often blocking, dodging and GS 3ing around and usually don't have the luxury of actually casting a healing skill the way engineers can just Toss Elixir S and heal from relative safety.

When you see off meta core warrior builds or even

they're usually running Mending because it is genuinely excellent and most warriors are straight up sleeping on how good it is right now.

Glyph of Elemental Harmony is another similarly super strong heal skill I've calculated. Even before you take into account the bonuses from Water Attunement. If you're fishing for examples.

But if nerfing Healing Signet, Mending, and Glyph of Elemental Harmony is your price for nerfing healing turret it's a deal.

praqtos.9035 · June 14, 2019

@Vagrant.7206 said:
@praqtos.9035 said:
@toxic.3648 said:
As an
~~engineer main~~
, I respectfully disagree.with the amount of misinformation u put out when it comes to engi, u dont get to say that:)Yea, it's just a class main trying his hardest to downplay the viability of his main to avoid the nerf.

You do know the forums have very little effect on what the devs actually do, right?Every single nerf on the mesmer was called exactly from forum, just as certain buffs ideas. I dont know, you must be blind to not see how impactful it is, otherwise you wouldnt be here

Pengu.7481 · June 14, 2019

@Vagrant.7206 said:I'm not sure @"mortrialus.3062" should be concerned about his tone when there's people making this kind of error because they want to insult somebody. There is a little something called civilityso civility is what u used here i presume?I enjoy watching you make an engineer just to take a screenshot. :smile:me telling u u arent a engi main is basically the same
Feel free to downplay or insult me on every little thing I say. I hope the forum moderators read your posts. :smile:im not downplaying or insulting u mate. im proving u wrong, and have done so on numerous occasions now. not to mention ive read alot of the things that u have posted which have led me to believe that u arent a engi main since often times u dont know what traits/skills actually do on the class u surposedly main.

i like to think im as objectively about the class i play and not afraid to admit if it is infact overperforming.which is why i always comes to these kind of threads to give my 2 cents on the class i main to give a clear picture on what actually is possible to do on holo or engi as a whole and what is not possible (or overexaggirated)

ive already said what i would like changed on holo and imho i dont think nerfing Healing turret is the right way (except for cutting the regen off it since no other turrets comes with a boon either) id rather see vigor nerf (less dodges, less heal and less spammy play since u cant vent heat as often anymore), heat therapy x10 not being a thing(having double warrior signet heal for 50% of our heat cooldown shouldnt be a thing) increase cd on holo 2(this is obvious) and remove holo 5 100% crit rate aswell as a range nerf(again building into holo actually need to get close instead of dropping a nuke from 600 range and cc'ing the crap outta u, also 100% crit should also not be a thing) nerf stealth duration on elixir S to 3 sec/ 4 sec traited(6 sec stealth traited is bonkers and rivals mesmer elite)and remove 1 of the reveals on "lock on" trait and give it 20 sec cd to compensate(having 2 on 25 sec cd ensures u always have a reveal up in most cases)

and i do apoligize for my bad english, its not my first language but i hope my point comes across clear enough

Vagrant.7206 · June 14, 2019

@toxic.3648 said:
@Vagrant.7206 said:I'm not sure @"mortrialus.3062" should be concerned about his tone when there's people making
this kind of error
because they want to insult somebody. There is a little something called civilityso civility is what u used here i presume?I enjoy watching you make an engineer just to take a screenshot. :smile:me telling u u arent a engi main is basically the same

Very different. One statement is teasing somebody else. The other statement is calling someone a liar or a fraud.

@toxic.3648 said:
Feel free to downplay or insult me on every little thing I say. I hope the forum moderators read your posts. :smile:im not downplaying or insulting u mate. im proving u wrong, and have done so on numerous occasions now. not to mention ive read alot of the things that u have posted which have led me to believe that u arent a engi main since often times u got no clue on what traits/skills actually do on the class u surposedly main.

No, you haven't done so on "numerous" occasions. You proved me wrong on one thing, which I agreed I was objectively wrong on. How that gets conflated to me being wrong on everything, I don't know. But I don't appreciate being called "no true scotsman" because you don't like me.

@toxic.3648 said:i like to think im as objectively about the class i play and not afraid to admit if it is infact overperforming.which is why i always comes to these kind of threads to give my 2 cents on the class i main to give a clear picture on what actually is possible to do on holo or engi as a whole and what is not possible (or overexaggirated)

I very literally said, just a few posts up, that Holo is OP in absolute terms. It's the relative OP'ness that's at debate. I don't personally believe that holo is any less or more OP than a lot of the current meta elite specs.

And I am trying to be objective as well. I assume most people are. But when you mix insults with your arguments, I don't care what your argument is.

Dirame.8521 · June 14, 2019

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@"Moirg.7560" said:Stupid literal "supersoldier" class that has EVERYTHING. Class has every single offensive utility in the game, ridiculous sustain, boons, stealth, hard cc tied into burst. All able to be managed by a 3 year old.
It's stupid and out of control and a nerf to anything in their toolkit would be a good start. This nonsense is the kind of imbalance that results in unenjoyable gameplay and leads to people quitting.

You forgot:

Reveal
Full heals itself like a Druid, without running any heal stat

If anything, it needs its heal potential dropped down to 3/4ths of what it is now, at the least.

They have like 15k health mate. That's literally 1 Spin to win from a Reaper.

"It's unfair to nerf holosmiths when reapers exist somewhere... out in the distance someplace.... idk never seen them but they're there!"

If Holosmiths were uncounterably broken(like Mirage was and still can be), I would agree to a nerf but if a Core Necro or even core engie can make a holo look like small fry, I don't know what to say to you. It may just be a they got you with a quick burst or something?

And really, that's all they have, a quick burst. Survive that burst and watch them flop into run away mode.

What run away mode? They're going to pop either the Photon Wall or Toss Elixir S, heal to full and be right back in your face charging you. I've already done the math on just how over powered just one aspect of the meta holosmith's sustain is.

That's the thing with meta holosmith, they're rush you hard. And you can avoid it, sure. And you can counter attack in between that, sure. Maybe even burst them down to 25% of their health.

But their ability to resustain and self healing is absolutely over the top. They'll heal to full and have many ways to help ensure they can pull that off, then be back in your face with immense pressure again. And they'll jack hammer you as many times as they need until they either screw up badly enough for you to kill them or they eventually just outpace your cooldowns because their cooldowns are significantly lower and their healing is significantly higher.

Oh come on, you're over exaggerating. As one who as played Prot Holo quite extensively, they definitely cannot heal to full. The calculation you did, and please correct me if I'm wrong, was for the Holo to use his blast finisher skills in combo with HT. And let me tell you, no Holo worth their salt would come back to fight you unless they have those off cooldown.

I literally have the math. Its right up there. You can literly scroll up and see it.

I have caculations with no field interaction at all, only Detonate Healing Turret, Detonate plus one finisher, and 2 finisher. And i have direct comparisons between most other healing skills of similar caliber.

So 7k health is a full heal? They heal a lot more than others, I can agree with you on that but do they really heal to their full complete health? That part is exaggeration.

It's a

lot more

health, very quickly, than

any other

class gets without heals that require extreme circumstances like Herald's Infuse Light. Mathematically it's better than other similar heals by 30-40% without any investment in Healing Power statwise. And that's before you start accounting for Engineers who are decent enough to toss a jump shot, or a holo leap or holographic shockwave as they reengage you in the fight. And before you start accounting for it splashing heals on allies and thus deserves lower self healing, and before you realize it also cleanses conditions, and before you realize it also does damage.

A mediocre holo is getting more healing with much less restrictions from Healing Turret than any other profession. A good holo is wringing 10k from Healing Turret every time they need to. And yeah, at 30% remaining health 10k is indeed a full heal.

They have at least 15-20k health. 10k would only be 75-50% of their health. But hey, you have a point about the heal being strong so I'll leave you to it. Let Anet do what it wills.

It's everything else stacked with Heal Turret. All sources of leaps & blasts in the water field, and small regens, ect ect. This is why Holos walk off node around a barrel and then come back with full health. When I say full health, I do mean full health.

We'll, I don't have a problem with them coming back with full health. Because that's what Engine has always been able to do since before Holosmith. But now we have a problem with it because you easily get bursted down by Holosmiths. But again, I am not going to interfere any longer with your complaints. Keep calm and carry on.

People are having a problem with it because with the condition mirage and chronobunker nerfs, core guardians basically deleted and firebrand having not been good outside of MATs for like a year now, Boonbeasts nuked, thieves of all stripes being culled, Ele's having not being good or even fun since Path of Fire, people are now looking at the new top tier builds for ranked now that that dust has settled and what they're having to go up against literally every single game. And this group is; Spellbreaker, Revenant, Holosmith, Scrapper, Sic Em Soulbeast. Basically in that exact order.

Welcome to what it feels like to be on top.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dirame.8521 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Dirame.8521 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@"Moirg.7560" said:Stupid literal "supersoldier" class that has EVERYTHING. Class has every single offensive utility in the game, ridiculous sustain, boons, stealth, hard cc tied into burst. All able to be managed by a 3 year old.
It's stupid and out of control and a nerf to anything in their toolkit would be a good start. This nonsense is the kind of imbalance that results in unenjoyable gameplay and leads to people quitting.

You forgot:

Reveal
Full heals itself like a Druid, without running any heal stat