Need help with build and tips to survive small group fights in WvW

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I've been solo-roaming for much of my past and recently got more interested in small group fights.

I've been trying a large variety of builds and stats but I die the moment 2 or more opponents focus on me in a group fight.Damage is so high now that it seems like I die in a matter of seconds (slightly longer if I'm on Scourge).I thought going tankier/healing would help me survive better (like 1K healing and 3K armor) but I still go down easily.Need build help and tips to survive hard-focus in a group fight!

Thanks!

[Redpawa.4108]

This is coming from a reaper main so I won't be much help with core or scourge.If you are unable to push through the initial bursting of your opponents I would recommend building with more vitality this will detract from your overall sustain and DPS, it allows you a bit of a buffer for mistakes and reacting. If you can incorporate them I would also highly recommend a rune set with +10% life (such as Vamprisim for power damage), these tend to scale very well with health and shroud.To help out your group as a whole I would recommend thinking about when and where you can place your de-buffs, especially weakness and blind.

[Nimon.7840]

Get you pocket support/healer and go, if he's not able to heal you, bad healer...

[Fenrir Bartea.5917]

Hey Eremite,

Solo Here. I think you've heard me preaching this before but I find that positing and counterpressure determine your survival in 1vX since our 1 defense doesn't scale like an invuln would. Get just enough armor/vitality to not get 1 shot and put everything else into damage.

Place an escape wurm as you're engaging and just try to force out as many defenses as possible. Cancel cast chilled to the Bone to bait out dodges, before porting back to your wurm and building life force with axe or spectral armor/whatever you choose.

If my first attempt has them pressured enough to go in for the kill, ill leap or spectral walk back in when their invuln/blocks are expired and mop up with a true cast of chilled to the bone.

If I'm hard focused, instead of leaping back in for the kill after using my escape wurm, I'll hang back to gain some cds and then do a spectral walk feint. Get back in the fight with spectral walk up and burst as hard as possible. Counter Pressure is your best defense after shroud.

Port out as soon as your shroud is low and repeat. (using nightfall/CTTB to mitigate anything that follows you out)

Unless you have a healer, in which case you should be repositioning close to them so they can carry your squishy defenseless kitten just like Anet intended!

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Fenrir Bartea.5917 said:Hey Eremite,

Solo Here. I think you've heard me preaching this before but I find that positing and counterpressure determine your survival in 1vX since our 1 defense doesn't scale like an invuln would. Get just enough armor/vitality to not get 1 shot and put everything else into damage.

Place an escape wurm as you're engaging and just try to force out as many defenses as possible. Cancel cast chilled to the Bone to bait out dodges, before porting back to your wurm and building life force with axe or spectral armor/whatever you choose.

If my first attempt has them pressured enough to go in for the kill, ill leap or spectral walk back in when their invuln/blocks are expired and mop up with a true cast of chilled to the bone.

If I'm hard focused, instead of leaping back in for the kill after using my escape wurm, I'll hang back to gain some cds and then do a spectral walk feint. Get back in the fight with spectral walk up and burst as hard as possible. Counter Pressure is your best defense after shroud.

Port out as soon as your shroud is low and repeat. (using nightfall/CTTB to mitigate anything that follows you out)

Unless you have a healer, in which case you should be repositioning close to them so they can carry your squishy defenseless kitten just like Anet intended!

Solo as in...Solovet?!The strongest Power Reaper Roamer in NA?! ?I only recognize your name in game as Solovet!Can't recall your account name XDSorry if it's not you...

But if it IS you, how have you been?Are you still on GOM?I've transferred to AR for about a month now.Miss roaming with you guys!

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Nimon.7840 said:Get you pocket support/healer and go, if he's not able to heal you, bad healer...

I would love to but I've roamed alone for so long I don't have a guild XDAnd given my outspoken personality, not many would take me into one lol.Meeting random healers while roaming is also so rare.

Its so hard fighting in a pug group as a Necro.I'm not kidding when I say I die in under 10 seconds when hard-focused by just 2 enemies.Like a Mirage and Holo focus, chaining stuns and immobilize, I just flop and die lol.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Redpawa.4108 said:This is coming from a reaper main so I won't be much help with core or scourge.If you are unable to push through the initial bursting of your opponents I would recommend building with more vitality this will detract from your overall sustain and DPS, it allows you a bit of a buffer for mistakes and reacting. If you can incorporate them I would also highly recommend a rune set with +10% life (such as Vamprisim for power damage), these tend to scale very well with health and shroud.To help out your group as a whole I would recommend thinking about when and where you can place your de-buffs, especially weakness and blind.

Thanks for the tips!I happen to love Vampirism runes too and will give it a try.

[Nimon.7840]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:Get you pocket support/healer and go, if he's not able to heal you, bad healer...

I would love to but I've roamed alone for so long I don't have a guild XDAnd given my outspoken personality, not many would take me into one lol.Meeting random healers while roaming is also so rare.

Its so hard fighting in a pug group as a Necro.I'm not kidding when I say I die in under 10 seconds when hard-focused by just 2 enemies.Like a Mirage and Holo focus, chaining stuns and immobilize, I just flop and die lol.

Maybe always play flesh wurm then? Sneaky teleport action xD

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:Get you pocket support/healer and go, if he's not able to heal you, bad healer...

I would love to but I've roamed alone for so long I don't have a guild XDAnd given my outspoken personality, not many would take me into one lol.Meeting random healers while roaming is also so rare.

Its so hard fighting in a pug group as a Necro.I'm not kidding when I say I die in under 10 seconds when hard-focused by just 2 enemies.Like a Mirage and Holo focus, chaining stuns and immobilize, I just flop and die lol.

Maybe always play flesh wurm then? Sneaky teleport action xD

That might just be the solution to all my headaches XDI've been hesitant to use it though as I dislike juking around for some reason lol...Its cool watching other Necros do it but I find it uncomfortable when I do it...I'm just not used to blinking around ?

I prefer to be right in the middle of the action and love running headlong into a fight.Because I love to rush in, my positioning has always been terrible and I easily become the first target to be focused.

I've been trying to get in and stay in the middle of fights with Full Signets healing builds, Full Shouts healing builds, full Spectral builds, Protection focused builds, but none of them seemed to be able to survive a chain stun+immobilize hard-focus by 2 or more foes.

I'm currently trying a variant of the Wells build that you suggested to @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" a couple of months back.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR3dnk0A90g10Au0A0biFoBLOFuCjhSNgAwyaKF0BKBA-j1SGQBA4IAsu9HIiSDCqMoM6GKiSsD8AASwFAwAHEg1q+jUUCCA-w

Full Wells build with Chrono runes focused around Protection/Boons, using Diviners gear.DM + BM + Reaper.And the protection duration is really lovely!Furthermore, it provides more stability and counter-pressure when I get hard-focused.

This is probably the last build I can think of that doesn't involve juking with Wurm/Spectral walk.And so far I'm pleasantly surprised that the Wells/Protection build seems to be working well in the few group fights that I've had so far!I get to stay in the thick of things and survive much better even when focused.Really hoping that this works!

[Famine.7915]

Reaper much better at tanking damage. Vanilla necro is even better at tanking damage due to reduced shroud drain.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Famine.7915 said:Reaper much better at tanking damage. Vanilla necro is even better at tanking damage due to reduced shroud drain.

Unfortunately Vanilla Necro has low access to stability compared to Reaper.I can get stun-locked to death easily in a group fight when focused XDIf only we had our old Plague transformation sigh.

[Bezerker.2379]

I find this build suffices. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArfWnE9CN9il3AG3As9iluBbKjNACA6B1j6Sl6DsBOUA-jVyHQBtY/huo+yLPEAxUfAAeCA/6EAMHlgLR5XiUhQUAuG-w for solo roam or small group roam. I use karka potion for more toughness as well but gw2skills doesn't let me add it. The barriers help the group immensely, and I have fairly good sustain to be able to 1vx. If we have support and I don't need the extra healing from bugged blood bond, I switch blood magic to curses.

[Dawdler.8521]

Going tanky wont help you at all. I dont run necro, but I can say that in any smallscale fight me and 2-3 guldies does, the necro is always the primary target because they cant sustain a group fight on their own yet at the same time they are one of the biggest threats if you down someone else, due to the AoE. I have met plenty of necros running perfect counterbuilds to my own and can beat me 1v1 but I dont think I've ever seen the same type of necros survive a 2v1. I cant recall any necro doing it period. But granted, bad enemies are everywhere so sometimes, somewhere maybe it happen lol.

IMO the only way you can deal with it in group fights is positioning and acting like a +1. Engage already engaged players, dont let them see you first. If you got a pocket healer that helps too but clever enemies will just pull/knock you out (or simply overcome the healing, because focusing whats presumably going to be a fb or scrapper is pointless).

[foste.3098]

i use this in wvw for small scale havoc squads and zerging (with a few modifications) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR3dnMbCdbiF3AmbC0biFcBD6qFAOAxVxtYYkqL0GeWA-jVSGQBlT3wBeAAA4iAkElTFUJz52foeq/cHlgG4IAEA4A43fz3+G87v/+7v/Wf/93f/93f/93fLFwYjBA-wYou are basically a raid boss in terms of durability, healing from blighters boon and soul eater both of which are boosted by vital persistence.Blighters boon can proc from spite minors, weapon sigils, but most importantly the food (which has a 1 sec icd), all of which give you massive sustain as long as you are landing hits. Rise is interchangeable with spectral armor, or well of power if you know you will engage in a heavy condition fight.

The thing with necro in wvw is you have to team up with a class that can ether give you stealth or help you get out of combat in some other way so that you may mount up and gtfo if the situation gets dire. So basically thieves, mesmers, and engineers are your best friends. If you just jump in alone you will not have fun.

[Etterwyn.5263]

@"foste.3098" said:i use this in wvw for small scale havoc squads and zerging (with a few modifications) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR3dnMbCdbiF3AmbC0biFcBD6qFAOAxVxtYYkqL0GeWA-jVSGQBlT3wBeAAA4iAkElTFUJz52foeq/cHlgG4IAEA4A43fz3+G87v/+7v/Wf/93f/93f/93fLFwYjBA-wYou are basically a raid boss in terms of durability, healing from blighters boon and soul eater both of which are boosted by vital persistence.Blighters boon can proc from spite minors, weapon sigils, but most importantly the food (which has a 1 sec icd), all of which give you massive sustain as long as you are landing hits. Rise is interchangeable with spectral armor, or well of power if you know you will engage in a heavy condition fight.

The thing with necro in wvw is you have to team up with a class that can ether give you stealth or help you get out of combat in some other way so that you may mount up and gtfo if the situation gets dire. So basically thieves, mesmers, and engineers are your best friends. If you just jump in alone you will not have fun.

That looks... amazing. My biggest problem has been getting life force replenished, and now I see the light. I might mod it a little for my personal tastes but I'm looking forward to giving it a run tonight!

[jpersson.7368]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Its so hard fighting in a pug group as a Necro.

This.

Returning old-timer here. Mostly solo or small scale on necro. Currently on Hobo's Marshall build (ish) posted recently.

Running in a random unsynchronized pug I try to be my own little pirate ship, unless I need to push for the sake of pushing.

I enjoy running with pugs but it has limitations.

[Shroud.2307]

It's all in the footwork. Just like learning how to position yourself in a zerg, it's difficult to put in to words. But you have to develop a kind of spidey-sense for when someone(s) has their attention on you or when you're about to get spiked. Of course it's impossible to be aware of everything that's happening 100% of the time, but with practice, it is absolutely possible to avoid ever drawing anyone's attention at all if you know where to situate yourself.

If the group you're facing are experienced, it'll be much harder to avoid becoming the primary target, but that doesn't mean you can't use it to your advantage. Personally, I always try to force people to over extend/put themselves out of position when I've become the target. I don't "retreat" so much as I lure them to a bad spot, like near a Scourge, in water, deeper in to the group, etc. They might down or even kill me in the process, but often times it gets them killed as well.

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I'm not kidding when I say I die in under 10 seconds when hard-focused by just 2 enemies.Like a Mirage and Holo focus, chaining stuns and immobilize, I just flop and die lol.

Yep, that's where positioning is everything. It'll save you more than any amount of armor or health ever could. I wish I could think of an appropriate way to describe it but, I always seem to draw a blank when it comes to this. It's very much an... Instinct? You just need to develop that sense that tells you when you're in a spot that you won't be able to recover from if you take pressure.

EDIThttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzgD2qkRobw&feature=youtu.be

This is a large scale fight so it's a little different but, notice how I'm constantly in the thick of the fight yet taking very little damage. I'm always hugging the side lines and paying attention to the movement of the zerg. If I draw too much attention I instantly fall back and look for an area I can LOS or force anyone following me to over extend.This is an unedited video just for the sake of the conversation btw. I hope it helps to better visualize what I'm failing to convey with words, lol.

[Redpawa.4108]

Realised that I forgot to link my actual build earlier. It is similar to Etterwyn's build however with a stronger defensive focus, I do not run it solo very often however with ~5 players I can keep pressure on the entire fight through self sustain.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQFARnMbC12g90AO2A0biFrBjKEEDGBSBgQWJLOD+BThA-j1RBQBrUJYAeAAJT5HAuAAJZ/hNp+zh0BMaIAYBArqUVVVSBM6MN-w

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Redpawa.4108" said:Realised that I forgot to link my actual build earlier. It is similar to Etterwyn's build however with a stronger defensive focus, I do not run it solo very often however with ~5 players I can keep pressure on the entire fight through self sustain.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQFARnMbC12g90AO2A0biFrBjKEEDGBSBgQWJLOD+BThA-j1RBQBrUJYAeAAJT5HAuAAJZ/hNp+zh0BMaIAYBArqUVVVSBM6MN-w

40k health is cool and all but I fail to see how this will kill anything other than open world critters.

[Nimon.7840]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Redpawa.4108" said:Realised that I forgot to link my actual build earlier. It is similar to Etterwyn's build however with a stronger defensive focus, I do not run it solo very often however with ~5 players I can keep pressure on the entire fight through self sustain.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQFARnMbC12g90AO2A0biFrBjKEEDGBSBgQWJLOD+BThA-j1RBQBrUJYAeAAJT5HAuAAJZ/hNp+zh0BMaIAYBArqUVVVSBM6MN-w

40k health is cool and all but I fail to see how this will kill anything other than open world critters.

Thought the same.No crits, no ferocity

This is just tank. And hope someone else kills the enemy. But there's better stats for pure tank builds...

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Redpawa.4108" said:Realised that I forgot to link my actual build earlier. It is similar to Etterwyn's build however with a stronger defensive focus, I do not run it solo very often however with ~5 players I can keep pressure on the entire fight through self sustain.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQFARnMbC12g90AO2A0biFrBjKEEDGBSBgQWJLOD+BThA-j1RBQBrUJYAeAAJT5HAuAAJZ/hNp+zh0BMaIAYBArqUVVVSBM6MN-w

40k health is cool and all but I fail to see how this will kill anything other than open world critters.

Thought the same.No crits, no ferocity

This is just tank. And hope someone else kills the enemy. But there's better stats for pure tank builds...

Ya.

And I mean I get the idea...basically stack power... and rely on non crit power damage but there’s so little of it there that I just don’t see it doing any pressure to anyone. If maybe running spite over death magic I could maybe see that happening... having 1k extra power in might+damage mods would probably serve the build better than the extra 300/400 power from death magic, and 300 toughness.

In fact I’d wager you could probably pull off some decent damage if you just speced food/sigils/spite/might just to get to 4K power.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Flesh wurm and spec walk are thee utilities that make reaper one of the most fun specs to play in wvw for me. Good positioning of a wurm can be a great disengage or kite skill to get out small fights or if a zergs about to roll over u. I think it's a mix of its flavor and the fact of having to preplan and use smart positioning that makes it so satisfying when ur plan with it works, tho wish cast time was faster. Having a preset wurm in the distance and popping spec walk then rushing a small group or zerg and shroud bursting then tele back out is fun,use wurm if someone chases u outa zerg. Alot of people still dont expect a reaper to poof away. Spec walk off walls into zergs/small groups is fun to lol than poof back ontop of the wall. Good times.

[Etterwyn.5263]

@"Redpawa.4108" said:Realised that I forgot to link my actual build earlier. It is similar to Etterwyn's build however with a stronger defensive focus, I do not run it solo very often however with ~5 players I can keep pressure on the entire fight through self sustain.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQFARnMbC12g90AO2A0biFrBjKEEDGBSBgQWJLOD+BThA-j1RBQBrUJYAeAAJT5HAuAAJZ/hNp+zh0BMaIAYBArqUVVVSBM6MN-w

If you're going to tank, use a Dire condition build (condition, vit, toughness), because you'll have a hard time killing anybody with no crit and ferocity on a power build. You have to balance damage and sustain.

So I've been experimenting with Death Magic as a way to get high Toughness, while keeping glass cannon gear and still taking advantage of the Soul reaping's DPS boosts. This is where I'm at right now but I may tweak as I get time to play it more:

Min/Max (100.76% crit with Fury and Shroud):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAndBnMbCdbi12A0biFqBj6FkDuUSBgBQKLuDOCB-jxRGQBOUpiUUCCgnAQ9U/Rn7PUO9BDRZloAGN-e

Highest crit out of shroud (overcap in shroud w/ Fury and lose 10% crit damage):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAndBnMbCdbi12A0biFqBTKAMASZxdwRIqXQO4SB-jhRGQB1T9nCq8Tn7PUO9BSUJIAeCAiCY0A-e

(I left "flexible" spots open)

You can reach and maintain 10 stacks of Fervor on a Necro with a sneeze. Combine that with the other traits and the food, and you can top off with around 700 toughness in shroud, ~500 outside shroud. Then factor in Protection, -10% food, and Rise combining for 59% damage reduction on top of that. And all this with full glass damage gear. For PVE trash mobs and clearing WvW camps (ie fast kills with almost no risk of damage) run Reaper 1-1-3 with Strength/Air Sigils. Against PVE Champions and real humans in WvW you want to run Reaper 1-1-1 and Superior + Major Strength (they still stack). This makes for mad heals in shroud and super fast life force regen. It's really hard for a single opponent to burst you and you can still pump out damage.

I don't know... may be better or may be worse (you won't hurt my feelings if you say it's trash, as long as you actually try it first =) ). Keep Spite and use toughness in your gear, or drop Spite and get toughness with glass gear? Damn if you do, damn if you don't!

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Etterwyn.5263 said:

Against PVE Champions and real humans in WvW you want to run Reaper 1-1-1 and Superior + Major Strength (they still stack).

Those stack? That's very interesting. Thanks for the nugget of info.

[Redpawa.4108]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:40k health is cool and all but I fail to see how this will kill anything other than open world critters.

The reason the build is effective is because during a fight it never has to disengage. While my top DPS is not all that good (usually about 5k) I often become the highest overall damage in any longer fights. I don't have any photos to back it up but in 10 v 10's ArcDPS usually shows about 500k damage taken and dealt during a longer fight.While playing I usually sit in the backline because while I don't deal particularly high damage it stacks up very quickly against glass.

However I do agree that it is completely handicapped against bursty players or anyone with good disengage ^^

A small note, I made this build when codi-bombing was meta which is why I favored health over toughness or power, and I have not rebuilt it yet.