Plz nerf revenant

DoomNexus.5324 · July 1, 2019

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:
@otto.5684 said:There is much going on with power Herald. It is probably the only meta build that is strong in AT and strong teams, but cannot carry a weaker team.
I think reducing the mighty stacking would go a long way. notoriety should not provide might in all game modes.
Another thing, is teleporting through walls. It should not exist for any class under any circumstance. If you do not have line of sight, you should not be able to leap/teleport.
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:Any skilled Revs here wanna have a showdown against my Elementalist or Necro?

Aaaaanyone at all... Im just a scrub Ele/Nec, I should be an easy challenge for these OP revs but feel like no one is taking it in case they lose and cant say rev is op anymore.

This is meaningless trolling. Builds are not balanced around 1v1, but around a specific role, and POWER HERALD ROLE IS NOT TO SOLO.

@Falan.1839 said:
@Syclantus.4621 said:If you don't mind me asking, what is your elo? While rev does have a bit of excess damage atm, your issue does not seem to be related to game balance. Clearly you are not utilising terrain at all or watching the minimap. Watch when phase traversal is being used and time/bait your own cc.

A double Rev comp even melted thorugh everything in the last mAT on EU, so yeah, git gud doesn't apply here...

I think curbing might to 8-10 stacks for solo generation would go a long way.

Biggest offender of LoS is Thief Sword skill 2. If Rev's PT is to be re-nerfed (last time the skill got fixed it was received very negatively) then every other offender needs to be fixed simultaneously

Yes indeed and this would kill thief completely. The only really relevant build is s/d which heavily relies on this. Take it away and you absolutely kill the entire class. Not even s/p would work, which I've seen more often recently.

Addressing Rev burst. Just nerf notoriety in terms of the increased power might provides. Like only +5 instead of the +10 or remove it all together for competitive game modes (but this would be rather idk.. the trait would kinda lose its intent)Nerf the quickness after Phase Traversal from 3 to 2 seconds and reduce the damage buff for the next 2 attacks from 25% to 20% or even 15% and I honestly think we're good.Because it takes away quite a bit of power for burst and sustained damage and the engage burst specifically is also reduced while not completely crippled.

Everyone who played Rev knows that you don't really hit THAT hard unless you take every bit of damage multiplier you can get, which means stacking might and fury as much as possible on Glint before engaging, then using Shiro for Enchanted Daggers, Phase Traversal (without wasting those 2 Follow Up unblockable/dmg buffed skills with say autoattacks) and also activating Impossible Odds for the delayed double hit modifier.This not only leaves you without basically any energy because you start with 50 - 35 for Phase Traversal - 5 for activation of impossible odds so a total of 10 remaining before you even started using your burst skills and with -3 energy pips because of the IO upkeep so you got to be quick on the next skill and immediately turn it off again. Keep in mind that you now only have 2 hits for that +25% dmg, unblockable modifier from PT. So the first hit from Sword5 for example hits like a wet noodle really it's just the follow up strike that deals damage so your buff is gone after that and your opponent probably mitigates the second strike anyway unless they have exhausted every defensives (but then they should die tbh, there's no way a class should be able to survive a burst engagement from a +1/ganker while out of kit).

bravan.3876 · July 1, 2019

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Vithzerai.3291 said:
@Crypto.7609 said:Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs.

As someone else pointed out earlier, guardians have access to the exact same thing, so that's not your only issue with Revs, is it?

And thieves, and weavers, and mesmers.

Blink (from Ele and Mesmer) and Jaunt can't be used through walls and are ground based skills, means no out of los ports directly to the target. At least Rev has a casttime on his port, compared to Guard he cannot precast big bursts even though the follow up from Rev often with Quickness doesn't have a lot of delay. Still have an eye on Rev you can even interrupt the port at start. Rev can't cover port or follow up with stability.

Illusionary ambush can be cast through walls. So can sword 3. Sword 2 on Weaver can also be cast through walls.

Forgot about Illusionary Ambush, haven't seen that skill used in any relevant conquest build lately. Still the teleport is random can even port you out of los to the target. Mesmer sword 3 is far away from instant, the clone jumping on you is a very big tell and the range is too short for most important out of los ports to targets like in Kyhlo or Forest up to the midpoint. Weaver sword 2 is even shorter. I would not compare any of these skills to Judge's Intervention or Phase Traversal. For what the ppl complain about in this thread: completely out of nowhere teleports with big dmg combined or with a very fast (with Quickness) follow up not leaving a lot of room to react, they are not rly relevant (maybe except for Illusionary Ambush).

alain.1659 · July 1, 2019

Rev is now a glorified thief-warrior hybrid that can only do burst damage well. Make revenant what i was supposed to be at the very beginning, a jack of all trades fighter that can adapt with the help of his legends, then the class can handle a nerf. That requires a real trait rework for revenant, which should have been done years ago.

Math.5123 · July 1, 2019

@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Vithzerai.3291 said:
@Crypto.7609 said:Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs.

As someone else pointed out earlier, guardians have access to the exact same thing, so that's not your only issue with Revs, is it?

And thieves, and weavers, and mesmers.

Blink (from Ele and Mesmer) and Jaunt can't be used through walls and are ground based skills, means no out of los ports directly to the target. At least Rev has a casttime on his port, compared to Guard he cannot precast big bursts even though the follow up from Rev often with Quickness doesn't have a lot of delay. Still have an eye on Rev you can even interrupt the port at start. Rev can't cover port or follow up with stability.

Illusionary ambush can be cast through walls. So can sword 3. Sword 2 on Weaver can also be cast through walls.

Forgot about Illusionary Ambush, haven't seen that skill used in any relevant conquest build lately. Still the teleport is random can even port you out of los to the target. Mesmer sword 3 is far away from instant, the clone jumping on you is a very big tell and the range is too short for most important out of los ports to targets like in Kyhlo or Forest up to the midpoint. Weaver sword 2 is even shorter. I would not compare any of these skills to Judge's Intervention or Phase Traversal. For what the ppl complain about in this thread: completely out of nowhere teleports with big dmg combined or with a very fast (with Quickness) follow up not leaving a lot of room to react, they are not rly relevant (maybe except for Illusionary Ambush).

The original post discussed LoS ports, not instant cast.

bravan.3876 · July 1, 2019

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Vithzerai.3291 said:
@Crypto.7609 said:Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs.

As someone else pointed out earlier, guardians have access to the exact same thing, so that's not your only issue with Revs, is it?

And thieves, and weavers, and mesmers.

Blink (from Ele and Mesmer) and Jaunt can't be used through walls and are ground based skills, means no out of los ports directly to the target. At least Rev has a casttime on his port, compared to Guard he cannot precast big bursts even though the follow up from Rev often with Quickness doesn't have a lot of delay. Still have an eye on Rev you can even interrupt the port at start. Rev can't cover port or follow up with stability.

Illusionary ambush can be cast through walls. So can sword 3. Sword 2 on Weaver can also be cast through walls.

Forgot about Illusionary Ambush, haven't seen that skill used in any relevant conquest build lately. Still the teleport is random can even port you out of los to the target. Mesmer sword 3 is far away from instant, the clone jumping on you is a very big tell and the range is too short for most important out of los ports to targets like in Kyhlo or Forest up to the midpoint. Weaver sword 2 is even shorter. I would not compare any of these skills to Judge's Intervention or Phase Traversal. For what the ppl complain about in this thread: completely out of nowhere teleports with big dmg combined or with a very fast (with Quickness) follow up not leaving a lot of room to react, they are not rly relevant (maybe except for Illusionary Ambush).

The original post discussed LoS ports, not instant cast.

Come on, stop bean counting. The ppl here complain about out of nowhere teleports leaving very few to no room to react to the port and the combined or Quickness follow up dmg. None of the skills from Ele or Mesmer (except maybe Illusionary Ambush what is random) is relevant for that complain. Either not instant and/ or too short range to come from out of nowhere.

DoomNexus.5324 · July 1, 2019

@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Vithzerai.3291 said:
@"Crypto.7609" said:Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs.

As someone else pointed out earlier, guardians have access to the exact same thing, so that's not your only issue with Revs, is it?

And thieves, and weavers, and mesmers.

Blink (from Ele and Mesmer) and Jaunt can't be used through walls and are ground based skills, means no out of los ports directly to the target. At least Rev has a casttime on his port, compared to Guard he cannot precast big bursts even though the follow up from Rev often with Quickness doesn't have a lot of delay. Still have an eye on Rev you can even interrupt the port at start. Rev can't cover port or follow up with stability.

Illusionary ambush can be cast through walls. So can sword 3. Sword 2 on Weaver can also be cast through walls.

Forgot about Illusionary Ambush, haven't seen that skill used in any relevant conquest build lately. Still the teleport is random can even port you out of los to the target. Mesmer sword 3 is far away from instant, the clone jumping on you is a very big tell and the range is too short for most important out of los ports to targets like in Kyhlo or Forest up to the midpoint. Weaver sword 2 is even shorter. I would not compare any of these skills to Judge's Intervention or Phase Traversal. For what the ppl complain about in this thread: completely out of nowhere teleports with big dmg combined or with a very fast (with Quickness) follow up not leaving a lot of room to react, they are not rly relevant (maybe except for Illusionary Ambush).

The original post discussed LoS ports, not instant cast.

Come on, stop bean counting. The ppl here complain about out of nowhere teleports leaving very few to no room to react to the port and the combined or Quickness follow up dmg. None of the skills from Ele or Mesmer (except maybe Illusionary Ambush what is random) is relevant for that complain. Either not instant and/ or too short range to come from out of nowhere.

Ok.

otto.5684 · July 1, 2019

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:
@otto.5684 said:There is much going on with power Herald. It is probably the only meta build that is strong in AT and strong teams, but cannot carry a weaker team.
I think reducing the mighty stacking would go a long way. notoriety should not provide might in all game modes.
Another thing, is teleporting through walls. It should not exist for any class under any circumstance. If you do not have line of sight, you should not be able to leap/teleport.
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:Any skilled Revs here wanna have a showdown against my Elementalist or Necro?

Aaaaanyone at all... Im just a scrub Ele/Nec, I should be an easy challenge for these OP revs but feel like no one is taking it in case they lose and cant say rev is op anymore.

This is meaningless trolling. Builds are not balanced around 1v1, but around a specific role, and POWER HERALD ROLE IS NOT TO SOLO.

@Falan.1839 said:
@Syclantus.4621 said:If you don't mind me asking, what is your elo? While rev does have a bit of excess damage atm, your issue does not seem to be related to game balance. Clearly you are not utilising terrain at all or watching the minimap. Watch when phase traversal is being used and time/bait your own cc.

A double Rev comp even melted thorugh everything in the last mAT on EU, so yeah, git gud doesn't apply here...

I think curbing might to 8-10 stacks for solo generation would go a long way.

Biggest offender of LoS is Thief Sword skill 2. If Rev's PT is to be re-nerfed (last time the skill got fixed it was received very negatively) then every other offender needs to be fixed simultaneously

Last rev nerf to PT did not require LOS, but did not allow you to use the skill unless you were in range. You could not use it as a gap closer, which was the issue.

I agree, this should be done to all similar skills across the board at one time. Rev should not be singled out.

bravan.3876 · July 1, 2019

@DoomNexus.5324 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Vithzerai.3291 said:
@"Crypto.7609" said:Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs.

As someone else pointed out earlier, guardians have access to the exact same thing, so that's not your only issue with Revs, is it?

And thieves, and weavers, and mesmers.

Blink (from Ele and Mesmer) and Jaunt can't be used through walls and are ground based skills, means no out of los ports directly to the target. At least Rev has a casttime on his port, compared to Guard he cannot precast big bursts even though the follow up from Rev often with Quickness doesn't have a lot of delay. Still have an eye on Rev you can even interrupt the port at start. Rev can't cover port or follow up with stability.

Illusionary ambush can be cast through walls. So can sword 3. Sword 2 on Weaver can also be cast through walls.

Forgot about Illusionary Ambush, haven't seen that skill used in any relevant conquest build lately. Still the teleport is random can even port you out of los to the target. Mesmer sword 3 is far away from instant, the clone jumping on you is a very big tell and the range is too short for most important out of los ports to targets like in Kyhlo or Forest up to the midpoint. Weaver sword 2 is even shorter. I would not compare any of these skills to Judge's Intervention or Phase Traversal. For what the ppl complain about in this thread: completely out of nowhere teleports with big dmg combined or with a very fast (with Quickness) follow up not leaving a lot of room to react, they are not rly relevant (maybe except for Illusionary Ambush).

The original post discussed LoS ports, not instant cast.

Come on, stop bean counting. The ppl here complain about out of nowhere teleports leaving very few to no room to react to the port and the combined or Quickness follow up dmg. None of the skills from Ele or Mesmer (except maybe Illusionary Ambush what is random) is relevant for that complain. Either not instant and/ or too short range to come from out of nowhere.

Ok.

I hope you are joking? The Weaver precasts a 2 secs cast skill for almost 2 secs right in front of their faces completely visible from mid range and ppl are still too tunnelvisioned to dodge that? Sry that is a l2p issue. Churning Earth + Lightning Flash complains, omg that was a good laugh.

Snellibee.2761 · July 1, 2019

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:It feels a bit like Rev is too good at different roles atm, because it can teamfight and +1, and isnt even so bad in 1v1. I think Anet should focus on one of those roles. One way to nerf its teamfight abilities would be for example to change the functionality of its Glint heal. If Anet wants it to be a teamfighter, then its teleports could be looked into.

Every class can 1v1 as long as the player behind it is good enough. You quite often see Sindrener 1v1ing warriors on his thief. Does this mean Thief is now a 1v1 class and should be nerfed because of it? No, it means the player is good enough to be able to 1v1. Every class should be able to 1v1. Some builds are just better suited for it and require less skill to be able to 1v1.

Snellibee.2761 · July 1, 2019

@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.

I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues.Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm.

He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness.

Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta.

No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical.

You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse

Math.5123 · July 1, 2019

@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Vithzerai.3291 said:
@Crypto.7609 said:Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs.

As someone else pointed out earlier, guardians have access to the exact same thing, so that's not your only issue with Revs, is it?

And thieves, and weavers, and mesmers.

Blink (from Ele and Mesmer) and Jaunt can't be used through walls and are ground based skills, means no out of los ports directly to the target. At least Rev has a casttime on his port, compared to Guard he cannot precast big bursts even though the follow up from Rev often with Quickness doesn't have a lot of delay. Still have an eye on Rev you can even interrupt the port at start. Rev can't cover port or follow up with stability.

Illusionary ambush can be cast through walls. So can sword 3. Sword 2 on Weaver can also be cast through walls.

Forgot about Illusionary Ambush, haven't seen that skill used in any relevant conquest build lately. Still the teleport is random can even port you out of los to the target. Mesmer sword 3 is far away from instant, the clone jumping on you is a very big tell and the range is too short for most important out of los ports to targets like in Kyhlo or Forest up to the midpoint. Weaver sword 2 is even shorter. I would not compare any of these skills to Judge's Intervention or Phase Traversal. For what the ppl complain about in this thread: completely out of nowhere teleports with big dmg combined or with a very fast (with Quickness) follow up not leaving a lot of room to react, they are not rly relevant (maybe except for Illusionary Ambush).

The original post discussed LoS ports, not instant cast.

Come on, stop bean counting. The ppl here complain about out of nowhere teleports leaving very few to no room to react to the port and the combined or Quickness follow up dmg. None of the skills from Ele or Mesmer (except maybe Illusionary Ambush what is random) is relevant for that complain. Either not instant and/ or too short range to come from out of nowhere.

It's not so much bean counting as correcting false information. That's like saying guardian has no access to stab through utilities because shouts aren't viable.

bravan.3876 · July 1, 2019

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Vithzerai.3291 said:
@"Crypto.7609" said:Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs.

As someone else pointed out earlier, guardians have access to the exact same thing, so that's not your only issue with Revs, is it?

And thieves, and weavers, and mesmers.

Blink (from Ele and Mesmer) and Jaunt can't be used through walls and are ground based skills, means no out of los ports directly to the target. At least Rev has a casttime on his port, compared to Guard he cannot precast big bursts even though the follow up from Rev often with Quickness doesn't have a lot of delay. Still have an eye on Rev you can even interrupt the port at start. Rev can't cover port or follow up with stability.

Illusionary ambush can be cast through walls. So can sword 3. Sword 2 on Weaver can also be cast through walls.

Forgot about Illusionary Ambush, haven't seen that skill used in any relevant conquest build lately. Still the teleport is random can even port you out of los to the target. Mesmer sword 3 is far away from instant, the clone jumping on you is a very big tell and the range is too short for most important out of los ports to targets like in Kyhlo or Forest up to the midpoint. Weaver sword 2 is even shorter. I would not compare any of these skills to Judge's Intervention or Phase Traversal. For what the ppl complain about in this thread: completely out of nowhere teleports with big dmg combined or with a very fast (with Quickness) follow up not leaving a lot of room to react, they are not rly relevant (maybe except for Illusionary Ambush).

The original post discussed LoS ports, not instant cast.

Come on, stop bean counting. The ppl here complain about out of nowhere teleports leaving very few to no room to react to the port and the combined or Quickness follow up dmg. None of the skills from Ele or Mesmer (except maybe Illusionary Ambush what is random) is relevant for that complain. Either not instant and/ or too short range to come from out of nowhere.

It's not so much bean counting as correcting false information. That's like saying guardian has no access to stab through utilities because shouts aren't viable.

I get your point but in the end you added useless informations. You answered to this post: "Got to love how people ignore the main subject of the topic which is line of sight abusing combo of revs."

Even tho he is not saying it that clearly, the main issue he has is the max range out of los teleport directly to the target for some out of nowhere engagement. And you can't compare any of Weavers or Mesmers teleports to that. Mesmer and Weaver can't "abuse" los like that with their ports. Only Guard and Thief (Steal) can and that even better because their teleports are instant.

I think Rev's teleport is fine, Rev just needs some little nerfs in dmg (in particular Sword offhand, also look at mightstacking).

ZhouX.8742 · July 1, 2019

@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.

I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues.Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm.

He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness.

Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta.

No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical.

Pretty much this

Understand roles of a class in conquest before asking for 1v1s

Ryan.9387 · July 1, 2019

@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.

I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues.Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm.

He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness.

Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta.

No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical.

You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse

The revs kill quite a bit faster. More importantly, they make absolutely no sacrifices in doing so. Sic em gives up defensive traits and utility skills for damage. Rev does it on a relatively conservative build, full of stunbreaks, condi clear, excellent healing, lifesteal, heavy armor, etc.

No other class combo can equal the mobility, damage, and sustain of a rev duo. Other specs can get close, but never quite there.

It's the ideal combo for creating a snowball on the map.

HeadCrowned.6834 · July 1, 2019

@Snellibee.2761 said:
@HeadCrowned.6834 said:It feels a bit like Rev is too good at different roles atm, because it can teamfight and +1, and isnt even so bad in 1v1. I think Anet should focus on one of those roles. One way to nerf its teamfight abilities would be for example to change the functionality of its Glint heal. If Anet wants it to be a teamfighter, then its teleports could be looked into.

Every class can 1v1 as long as the player behind it is good enough. You quite often see Sindrener 1v1ing warriors on his thief. Does this mean Thief is now a 1v1 class and should be nerfed because of it? No, it means the player is good enough to be able to 1v1. Every class should be able to 1v1. Some builds are just better suited for it and require less skill to be able to 1v1.

What even is this comment. I never said Rev is a 1v1 class. I said its not bad at 1v1, IN COMBINATION with being an excellent teamfighter and +1'er (being excellent at 2 things at the same time was my main point btw, you might have missed it). Firebrand for example is an excellent teamfighter, but bad as +1 or 1v1'er.

Snellibee.2761 · July 1, 2019

@Ryan.9387 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.

I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues.Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm.

He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness.

Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta.

No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical.

You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse

The revs kill quite a bit faster. More importantly, they make absolutely no sacrifices in doing so. Sic em gives up defensive traits and utility skills for damage. Rev does it on a relatively conservative build, full of stunbreaks, condi clear, excellent healing, lifesteal, heavy armor, etc.

No other class combo can equal the mobility, damage, and sustain of a rev duo. Other specs can get close, but never quite there.

It's the ideal combo for creating a snowball on the map.

Rev has one of the most shittiest sustain in the game. The fact you said that rev is full of condi clear, excellent healing and stunbreaks just shows you either have not played above gold division or you have never played Revenant yourself.

Revenant has close to zero condi clear so idk where you got your information from but Revenant is EXTREMELY weak against conditions.

Excellent healing? You mean Rev can only heal by getting attacked? Any good player knows when a rev is about to use infuse light and you just do not attack during these 3 seconds. Now the rev has not been able to heal and sustain himself so it's an easy kill. Most revenants will not even commit into attacking during infuse light by using CC's or sword 3 because they want to get hit during this time and not prevent you from hitting them.

Revenant has stunbreaks sure, but not more than the average other class. In fact, Revenant has a less easy time keeping a stunbreak available. The stunbreak on legend swap is very good but you have to keep in mind that a rev has to swap legends asap, so a good tactic would be to CC a rev right after they swapped legends. The stunbreak on shiro requires a lot of energy aswell, often a rev does not have the energy to use riposting shadows when he has been in a fight, so CC'ing a rev in shiro is very worth it.

Revenants sacrifice all defensive traits and gear attributes for pure damage. They do not have a bunch of passive damage reducing traits or abilities to keep them alive. Neither do they have passive healing sustaining you in a fight. Theres also no passive traits saving a Revenant from dying after making a mistake. Everything a rev can do to stay alive is all ACTIVE and requires skill and timing. Rev is not like other classes that allow you to stay alive because of passive traits and no skill requiring abilities.

Snellibee.2761 · July 1, 2019

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@HeadCrowned.6834 said:It feels a bit like Rev is too good at different roles atm, because it can teamfight and +1, and isnt even so bad in 1v1. I think Anet should focus on one of those roles. One way to nerf its teamfight abilities would be for example to change the functionality of its Glint heal. If Anet wants it to be a teamfighter, then its teleports could be looked into.

Every class can 1v1 as long as the player behind it is good enough. You quite often see Sindrener 1v1ing warriors on his thief. Does this mean Thief is now a 1v1 class and should be nerfed because of it? No, it means the player is good enough to be able to 1v1. Every class should be able to 1v1. Some builds are just better suited for it and require less skill to be able to 1v1.

What even is this comment. I never said Rev is a 1v1 class. I said its not bad at 1v1, IN COMBINATION with being an excellent teamfighter and +1'er (being excellent at 2 things at the same time was my main point btw, you might have missed it). Firebrand for example is an excellent teamfighter, but bad as +1 or 1v1'er.

You're mixing up a lot of things. Firebrand is not an excellent teamfighter, Firebrand is an excellent teamsupport. Everything that is a good teamfighter and is able to perform high damage is also good at +1. Because a +1 scenario is nothing more than an outnumbered teamfight. Teamfighting and +1'ing are practically the same and shouldn't be seen as two seperate things.

Roaming however is a different thing, and while yes Revenant is a good roamer in the sense that it can teleport to enemies quite often, rev does not have the same roaming capabilities as Thief or mesmer because rev does not have any teleports that can be used without having to target an enemy

Bazooka.3590 · July 1, 2019

Way too much blocks

DoomNexus.5324 · July 1, 2019

@Bazooka.3590 said:Way too much blocks

Spellbreaker and Guardian? yes I agree.Because obviously you can't mean rev with this since they only have 1 2s block and that's it, which is also active so you can't even counterpressure in the meanwhile.

@Ryan.9387 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.

I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues.Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm.

He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness.

Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta.

No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical.

You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse

More importantly, they make absolutely no sacrifices in doing so. Sic em gives up defensive traits and utility skills for damage. Rev does it on a relatively conservative build, full of stunbreaks, condi clear, excellent healing, lifesteal, heavy armor, etc.

No other class combo can equal the mobility, damage, and sustain of a rev duo. Other specs can get close, but never quite there.

I've never read so much misinformation in such a small space. In which universe is Rev full of condi clear or excellent healing? Glint/Shiro Herald has literally THE worst condi clear out of all meta builds atm. Also you have 2 heals yes but they are so easy to outplay both together barely count as half a heal tbh. Infuse Light is like the least effective heal in the entire game unless you stand in the middle of a teamfight and the entire enemy team drops all their bursts at once, and shiro heal also gives you very little, even if you hit all of them becaue you have to actively engage into a fight to trigger it and you have to hit several times (with an ICD of half a second) which takes a while (at least 3 seconds).Full of stunbreaks is also.. well.. Rev has decent access to stun breaks yes but they are rather expensive or inaccessible too (like if you can't swap legend you obviously can't use the stun break on the other legend).And did you look into the traits for once? Rev literally ONLY takes damage-enhancing traits, there's literally 0 trait that gives sustain other than Cleansing Channel which is basically only taken because the abysmal condi clear (and the other 2 aren't that good either) and you only get rid of 1 condition every ~10 seconds lol.

Math.5123 · July 1, 2019

@DoomNexus.5324 said:
@Bazooka.3590 said:Way too much blocks

Spellbreaker and Guardian? yes I agree.Because obviously you can't mean rev with this since they only have 1 2s block and that's it, which is also active so you can't even counterpressure in the meanwhile.

Don't mix guardian with Firebrand, core guard has very little blocks.

DoomNexus.5324 · July 1, 2019

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@DoomNexus.5324 said:
@Bazooka.3590 said:Way too much blocks

Spellbreaker and Guardian? yes I agree.Because obviously you can't mean rev with this since they only have 1 2s block and that's it, which is also active so you can't even counterpressure in the meanwhile.

Don't mix guardian with Firebrand, core guard has very little blocks.

I didn't mix them up. You peridically gain aegis through various sources (depending on the exact build at least 2 additional passive sources other than Virtue of Courage, which is an on demand instant block as well), block on focus4 which either blocks 3 attacks or deals AoE damage if not exhausted. And on top of that a 2s invul elite which resets your on-demand aegis and heal/condi clean as well.

otto.5684 · July 1, 2019

@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.

I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues.Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm.

He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness.

Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta.

No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical.

You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse

The revs kill quite a bit faster. More importantly, they make absolutely no sacrifices in doing so. Sic em gives up defensive traits and utility skills for damage. Rev does it on a relatively conservative build, full of stunbreaks, condi clear, excellent healing, lifesteal, heavy armor, etc.

No other class combo can equal the mobility, damage, and sustain of a rev duo. Other specs can get close, but never quite there.

It's the ideal combo for creating a snowball on the map.

Rev has one of the most kitten sustain in the game. The fact you said that rev is full of condi clear, excellent healing and stunbreaks just shows you either have not played above gold division or you have never played Revenant yourself.

Revenant has close to zero condi clear so idk where you got your information from but Revenant is EXTREMELY weak against conditions.

Excellent healing? You mean Rev can only heal by getting attacked? Any good player knows when a rev is about to use infuse light and you just do not attack during these 3 seconds. Now the rev has not been able to heal and sustain himself so it's an easy kill. Most revenants will not even commit into attacking during infuse light by using CC's or sword 3 because they want to get hit during this time and not prevent you from hitting them.

Revenant has stunbreaks sure, but not more than the average other class. In fact, Revenant has a less easy time keeping a stunbreak available. The stunbreak on legend swap is very good but you have to keep in mind that a rev has to swap legends asap, so a good tactic would be to CC a rev right after they swapped legends. The stunbreak on shiro requires a lot of energy aswell, often a rev does not have the energy to use riposting shadows when he has been in a fight, so CC'ing a rev in shiro is very worth it.

Revenants sacrifice all defensive traits and gear attributes for pure damage. They do not have a bunch of passive damage reducing traits or abilities to keep them alive. Neither do they have passive healing sustaining you in a fight. Theres also no passive traits saving a Revenant from dying after making a mistake. Everything a rev can do to stay alive is all ACTIVE and requires skill and timing. Rev is not like other classes that allow you to stay alive because of passive traits and no skill requiring abilities.

Rev, playing solo, has significant weakness and would have a hard time carrying a team. The issue with rev has to do more with that their effectiveness scales significantly with a good team. More than any other class. And the combination of good evades+block, strong mobility and high burst allows them to fulfill that role extremely well. Just jump in quickly annihilate a target, then get out. In addition, the pushing out of all condi build, except scourge, cleared the playing field completely for rev, holo and SB.

I think one sided nerfs for rev will be strongly misguided. But it needs to lose some burst or mobility in favor of less susceptibility to condis and probably a bit improved healing.

DeadlySynz.3471 · July 1, 2019

Rev's are bound by energy; that is what keeps them in line. It's not like they can run around spamming their skills till the cows come home. Their skills need to be telegraphed otherwise they can be left defenseless. If their damage is nerfed, then the energy cost must be taken away (which we know won't happen).

Ryan.9387 · July 1, 2019

@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.

I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues.Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm.

He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness.

Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta.

No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical.

You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse

The revs kill quite a bit faster. More importantly, they make absolutely no sacrifices in doing so. Sic em gives up defensive traits and utility skills for damage. Rev does it on a relatively conservative build, full of stunbreaks, condi clear, excellent healing, lifesteal, heavy armor, etc.

No other class combo can equal the mobility, damage, and sustain of a rev duo. Other specs can get close, but never quite there.

It's the ideal combo for creating a snowball on the map.

Rev has one of the most kitten sustain in the game. The fact you said that rev is full of condi clear, excellent healing and stunbreaks just shows you either have not played above gold division or you have never played Revenant yourself.

Revenant has close to zero condi clear so idk where you got your information from but Revenant is EXTREMELY weak against conditions.

Excellent healing? You mean Rev can only heal by getting attacked? Any good player knows when a rev is about to use infuse light and you just do not attack during these 3 seconds. Now the rev has not been able to heal and sustain himself so it's an easy kill. Most revenants will not even commit into attacking during infuse light by using CC's or sword 3 because they want to get hit during this time and not prevent you from hitting them.

Revenant has stunbreaks sure, but not more than the average other class. In fact, Revenant has a less easy time keeping a stunbreak available. The stunbreak on legend swap is very good but you have to keep in mind that a rev has to swap legends asap, so a good tactic would be to CC a rev right after they swapped legends. The stunbreak on shiro requires a lot of energy aswell, often a rev does not have the energy to use riposting shadows when he has been in a fight, so CC'ing a rev in shiro is very worth it.

Revenants sacrifice all defensive traits and gear attributes for pure damage. They do not have a bunch of passive damage reducing traits or abilities to keep them alive. Neither do they have passive healing sustaining you in a fight. Theres also no passive traits saving a Revenant from dying after making a mistake. Everything a rev can do to stay alive is all ACTIVE and requires skill and timing. Rev is not like other classes that allow you to stay alive because of passive traits and no skill requiring abilities.

I've finished between top25-top3 on ele, mesmer, ranger, theif, engie, warrior, and guardian. I currently play rev at plat2 on an alt. I think I have a good understanding of the strengths of the various classes I play.

Please allow the rev in your example to use their brain too. If your opponent is smart enough to cc after a legend swap, then assume the rev is smart enough to dodge, or staff 3, or staff 5, or sword 3, or sword 5, or roll backward, or facet of darkness, or glint heal.

Also revs aren't full glass cannon. AP is taken over brutality. Condi clear over a direct damage buff. Legend swap procs over a crit chance increase. Leadership over an offense rune. Etc.

Snellibee.2761 · July 1, 2019

@Ryan.9387 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:
@Ryan.9387 said:
@sephiroth.4217 said:
@Erzian.5218 said:
@Snellibee.2761 said:These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced.