Anet back in Silent Mode

[Obtena.7952]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Would that touch a nerve? Too close to the truth?Not really, I just wonder if that would be honest or reasonable itself.

@Obtena.7952 said:Honestly, I don't believe that communication compels anyone to log in and enjoy a gameHas anyone here said that communication compels them to log in and enjoy the game?

What is the 'need' then for more communication? Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do? Seems to me that need doesn't exist, because it shouldn't prevent you from playing the game if you don't get it. This isn't an unreasonable question. Do you NEED Anet to communicate with you to enjoy the game? What Is the NEED here other than to satisfy whims of players that don't like things?

[Erasculio.2914]

@"Obtena.7952" said:What is the 'need' then for more communication?

So is that a "no"?

Which means, you began your phrase with "honestly" and then went on to reply to a statement that no one in this topic has ever said?

I do wonder, is that good... Communication?

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Would that touch a nerve? Too close to the truth?Not really, I just wonder if that would be honest or reasonable itself.

@Obtena.7952 said:Honestly, I don't believe that communication compels anyone to log in and enjoy a gameHas anyone here said that communication compels them to log in and enjoy the game?

What is the 'need' then for more communication? Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do? Seems to me that need doesn't exist, because it shouldn't prevent you from playing the game if you don't get it. This isn't an unreasonable question. Do you NEED Anet to communicate with you to enjoy the game? What Is the NEED here other than to satisfy whims of players that don't like things?

The less a player feels like their concerns for a game, a game that they care about, are being listened to...the less likely they are going to feel like they should invest their time into it.

For sure you have a point, it isn't something that should compel people to play the game...but I feel it certainly compels them on whether they should continue or not. Time and time again has the point been made that GW2 has issues, many issues of which are discovered and pointed out by the community. Many of those issues, like certain bugs and glaring problems in QoL and game options (accessibility options like a colorblind mode), have been issues for a long time now and have yet to be addressed much less even talked about by ANet. Balance updates as well suffer from this problem, where feedback seems to go unheeded and sometimes, like with the recent balance patch, that feedback gets rescinded upon not in words but in action.

I saw recently that you, as in you personally Obtena, expressed concern over the recent announcement and upcoming addition of these Legendary Upgrades.

@Obtena.7952 said:Functionally, runes need to be cheaper than a piece of ascended armor to make ... otherwise you just make ascended armor sets with the runes you want. Sigils and runes are relatively cheap so ... not sure what the 'sell' is here unless you are swapping LOTS.

I'm actually pretty concerned ... I don't think swappable runes/sigils is inline with build templates. Why would they release such a thing despite templates coming? maybe templates aren't all they are cracked up to be. I can see making one full set of runes/sigils to test with, but that's probably it.

Do you think ANet should simply ignore this feedback in favor of ignoring any potential problems you, as well as others, have seen and have been expressing concern over? It seems to me that while it might not be that communication and interaction with the community on ANets part is what decides whether you play this game or not, but that it is something that ANet needs to reconsider their approach on. As it stands now, this will get implemented regardless of any feedback given or concerns expressed and they will then need to run damage control over the resulting "fallout".

What if they, for instance, held a stream this upcoming Friday and discussed their ideas and intentions for this implementation of Legendary Upgrades and showed us how the UI and functionality works? What if they informed us of the addition of Legendary Upgrades more than a week ahead of time? Maybe...a month? And used the ensuing four weeks to gather feedback on the information they provided, give updates when appropriate, to see if there is any way to possible improve the implementation of said Legendary Upgrades based on community feedback.

They have done similar in that past, yet these days they have not done so and that is wherein lies the concern over communication and interaction with the community.

[vyncius.6105]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Would that touch a nerve? Too close to the truth?Not really, I just wonder if that would be honest or reasonable itself.

@Obtena.7952 said:Honestly, I don't believe that communication compels anyone to log in and enjoy a gameHas anyone here said that communication compels them to log in and enjoy the game?

What is the 'need' then for more communication? Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do? Seems to me that need doesn't exist, because it shouldn't prevent you from playing the game if you don't get it. This isn't an unreasonable question. Do you NEED Anet to communicate with you to enjoy the game? What Is the NEED here other than to satisfy whims of players that don't like things?

Communication is needed to keep high morale. If morale is low, people intend to perform less efficient.

That works for gaming too. People will play less or quit entirely while they keep addressing obvious problems, but problems are ignored.

Spvp and wvw in very bad state now. Not many people are playing, so its not fun to anyone. Today got matched against 250 elo higher players and destroyed my team real ez (score was like 500:35). See, thats one problem that needs attention from anet.WvW got auto transfered me from populated server to very very low populated server (EB has 1 comm running with 20 players at peak hours). To be honest idk how WvW works (208 rank atm) and idk why ive got transfered, so not sure about it.

But all i want to say is these modes need development, because more and more people are quiting the game that are only dedicated to pvp.

And dont even let me start with PvE. In all those 3 years ive been playing. I only saw 5 fractals and 3 wings added. That is some lame stuff. I only play this long and ive ran out of things to do.

[mauried.5608]

MMos are simply to provide fun for players.I log on and play because I have fun doing so.Its makes no differance as to whether Anet is providing weekly updates or saying nothing at all.If the game wasnt fun I wouldnt be playing it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Another update from the Devs on Swiss Tournaments (not to mention the posts/announcements about the Monthly).

[maddoctor.2738]

Given the confusion over the legendary sigils/runes (check that other thread) we can all agree that blog posts aren't good for revealing this kind of information, especially when they are so vague. They should've done a stream, on Guild Chat, BEFORE the update hits live, like they did with the Warclaw, show us exactly how it works. Do it as early as possible, 2 weeks minimum before release, 1 month much better. Wait for feedback, there is lots on that thread, act on that feedback to make it better, and then release it. Making a vague blog post, that caused more confusion, a single week before it's released gives no time for feedback, causes confusion and in general is part of the bad communication discussed in this thread.

I hope they do better for build templates.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do?

One week isn't enough time to identify and fix problems. It's not enough time to provide feedback and then act on that feedback.

Tempest had loads of issues, especially the underwhelming elite skill, it was changed on release, because Arenanet revealed the Tempest on stream long before Heart of Thorns hit live. They gathered feedback, found out the elite was garbage and changed it completely. Imagine if the Tempest was revealed one week before Heart of Thorns.Warclaw had many issues and concerns. Arenanet made changes based on feedback from the stream.

The upcoming Legendary Runes/Sigils have numerous issues, can they act on our feedback in just one week? We'll see, but this "reveal things one week before they hit live" leaves very little room for changes.Imagine the kind of backlash they could've avoided if the mount licenses were shown on a stream, how they work, a couple weeks before their actual release.

[lare.5129]

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:Because there are games that grow and become much more successful because of heeding community feedback. Listening to the community that plays your gameNO ..NO and NO.Listening to the community like main voice is VERY bad idea. % of people what write and generate ideas is small from total players population. Some of them never happy, and say 'oO, chrno/necro/rev... nerf .. ' always and other hype stile things like "give us new class" - and same of then currently have 2 class at all and never try create 3 .. and say give us 10 .. oh.So community is not equal forum writers .. and community can have opposite view for many questions

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@lare.5129 said:

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:Because there are games that grow and become much more successful because of heeding community feedback. Listening to the community that plays your gameNO ..NO and NO.Listening to the community like main voice is VERY bad idea. % of people what write and generate ideas is small from total players population. Some of them never happy, and say 'oO, chrno/necro/rev... nerf .. ' always and other hype stile things like "give us new class" - and same of then currently have 2 class at all and never try create 3 .. and say give us 10 .. oh.So community is not equal forum writers .. and community can have opposite view for many questions

I never said listen to all of it. I've repeated that they should obviously parse through what is good and what is bad from community suggestions...as would be the obvious course of action.

Oh and also you look like you're denying that its something that happens...which is false. Warframe's Devs have a very positive relationship with their community and a number of things have changed in that game based on community feedback, and for the better as well.

[maddoctor.2738]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@lare.5129 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Because there are games that grow and become much more successful because of heeding community feedback. Listening to the community that plays your gameNO ..NO and NO.Listening to the community like main voice is VERY bad idea. % of people what write and generate ideas is small from total players population. Some of them never happy, and say 'oO, chrno/necro/rev... nerf .. ' always and other hype stile things like "give us new class" - and same of then currently have 2 class at all and never try create 3 .. and say give us 10 .. oh.So community is not equal forum writers .. and community can have opposite view for many questions

I never said listen to all of it. I've repeated that they should obviously parse through what is good and what is bad from community suggestions...as would be the obvious course of action.

Oh and also you look like you're denying that its something that happens...which is false. Warframe's Devs have a very positive relationship with their community and a number of things have changed in that game based on community feedback, and for the

better

as well.

Arenanet made lots of changes based on community feedback too. When they take the time to release something early enough that they can actually get that feedback and then act on it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole?Or is it only what certain posters think is best?I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole?Or is it only what certain posters think is best?I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here.

Its shown sometimes, like with some changes they made to Berserker for its rework; even though it took them how long to actually do something with it? Years? However there are a multitude of changes that have been made balance wise, and also the seeming lack of acknowledgement of certain things like even addressing a lack of colorblind options in the game that give fuel to the idea that they really just don't listen.

Not to mention bugs that have gone unfixed for a long time, and the fact that they still pull these "Surprise!" update blogs that allow for no time for feedback on those releases to actually be parsed through beforehand. Which again we just circle right back around to points made earlier in this thread; this is assuming that they actually do anything with the feedback after the release in any kind of timely manner.

As I mentioned above, it took them a rather lengthy amount of time to finally acknowledge and do something with Berserker despite all the feedback and suggestions and asks from the community, Warriors in particular, for ANet to at the very least do something with Berserker. Is that the length of time we should expect them to address similar issues in the game? As it stands now that feels like the case, for many aforementioned reasons listed throughout this thread.

[Invisible Kittens.6380]

Communication is good for the business. Bad communication leads to players leaving, it's as simple as that.Imagine you order a product online, it is defect and you can only partially use it. You want to send it back and report it, but you get a bad response or none at all. Will you buy from this person again or tell your friends about how good it is?No.You won't.Clear, truthful and accurate communication would be the best thing right now, even if it's not good news, but honest ones.I'm really anticipating some information.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole?Or is it only what certain posters think is best?I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here.

How you can they act on our feedback if they announce what's coming a week before it's released, with no other information, no streams to show it off, nothing. I guess we'll have to wait for a few months for the patches that fix the patches in order to have a completed package. Feedback is parsed through but when it does it's too late, the idea is to parse feedback BEFORE something is released, not after. So it's released at a good state.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do?

One week isn't enough time to identify and fix problems. It's not enough time to provide feedback and then act on that feedback.

That doesn't make sense ... how are you going to identify problems when you haven't even played the content? Again, feedback happens AFTER the implementation, not before it.

Let's be very clear here; do not use the need for communication as a ruse to interfere with Anet's development process.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Would that touch a nerve? Too close to the truth?Not really, I just wonder if that would be honest or reasonable itself.

@Obtena.7952 said:Honestly, I don't believe that communication compels anyone to log in and enjoy a gameHas anyone here said that communication compels them to log in and enjoy the game?

What is the 'need' then for more communication? Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do? Seems to me that need doesn't exist, because it shouldn't prevent you from playing the game if you don't get it. This isn't an unreasonable question. Do you NEED Anet to communicate with you to enjoy the game? What Is the NEED here other than to satisfy whims of players that don't like things?

The less a player feels like their concerns for a game, a game that they care about, are being listened to...the less likely they are going to feel like they should invest their time into it.

Sure ... but that's not what is happening here. See you are complaining in this sentence about being listened to ... that has nothing to do with how Anet communicates with you. Anet could stop ALL communication with players but listen to them more. You are still in this idea that Anet doesn't listen to players. The fact is that the general message from players is not consistent, so they can't listen to you: Anet can't make the game everything to everyone. They literally have to make ONE choice and implement it. That doesn't mean Anet doesn't listen to you.

If you playing the game is dependent on how well you think Anet listens to you instead of the service the game provides, you better check your motivation to play the game.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do?

One week isn't enough time to identify and fix problems. It's not enough time to provide feedback and then act on that feedback.

That doesn't make sense ... how are you going to identify problems when you haven't even played the content? Again, feedback happens AFTER the implementation, not before it.

Let's be very clear here; do not use the need for communication as a ruse to interfere with Anet's development process.

Why do I need to play the content to identify problems with it?I already personally provided more than enough feedback about the legendary sigil/rune rework without having played it. The images show a terrible UI, if it stays that way it will take more time to scroll down to find the rune you want, than slotting a different rune. The recently added Gift of Upgrades is a massive grind, if the actual thing will use less resources, then that's misleading communication. Imagine how much feedback I could give if they had a stream showing it in action.

Will they fix the UI and make the gift of upgrades less of a grind in one week?

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole?Or is it only what certain posters think is best?I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here.

How you can they act on our feedback if they announce what's coming a week before it's released, with no other information, no streams to show it off, nothing.

Because they don't need your feedback to implement new features. Why do you think combing through 100's of regular forum players feedback is a manageable process for improvement, especially when those people haven't experienced the content?

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do?

One week isn't enough time to identify and fix problems. It's not enough time to provide feedback and then act on that feedback.

That doesn't make sense ... how are you going to identify problems when you haven't even played the content? Again, feedback happens AFTER the implementation, not before it.

Let's be very clear here; do not use the need for communication as a ruse to interfere with Anet's development process.

Why do I need to play the content to identify problems with it?

It's not about you ... it's about managing 100's of people's feedback who have never used the content. That's a nonsensical process. Nothing would ever get released if Anet took that approach. If you were the sole player consultant, that process could work ... but you aren't.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The Gift of Upgrades isn't even in the game, but still in development. We can't really know what it will be like at release.It may be a bit premature to base cost feedback on Legendary Runes and Sigils before the actual implementation.Also, it may not take much (time or resources) to adjust the quantities in a recipe.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole?Or is it only what certain posters think is best?I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here.

How you can they act on our feedback if they announce what's coming a week before it's released, with no other information, no streams to show it off, nothing.

Because they don't need your feedback to implement new features.

What kind of a messed up game doesn't need player feedback? I guess it's better for them to release something half-complete, get all the negative feedback afterwards and then act on it, after the backlash. Great for publicity and the image of the game and company. See what happened with the mount license. Had we known how they'd work Arenanet wouldn't be featured by youtubers as one of the terrible anti-consumer companies. Good development process, playing damage control instead of avoiding the damage altogether.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole?Or is it only what certain posters think is best?I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here.

How you can they act on our feedback if they announce what's coming a week before it's released, with no other information, no streams to show it off, nothing.

Because they don't need your feedback to implement new features.

What kind of a messed up game doesn't need player feedback?

I didn't say it doesn't need player feedback. I'm saying Anet doesn't need your feedback before content is released. Do not equate Anet communicating more with players as an opportunity to play armchair game developer. Those are not the same thing and it would never happen because it's not a manageable process; you aren't the only player that has ideas for how things should work.

[Saerin.1032]

@"Invisible Kittens.6380" said:Communication is good for the business. Bad communication leads to players leaving, it's as simple as that.Imagine you order a product online, it is defect and you can only partially use it. You want to send it back and report it, but you get a bad response or none at all. Will you buy from this person again or tell your friends about how good it is?No.You won't.Clear, truthful and accurate communication would be the best thing right now, even if it's not good news, but honest ones.I'm really anticipating some information.

This comparing sounds to different for me actually...because of course you wont BUY again from that person when they give a fuck about you, harsh said, but anet is just lagging on communication about NEWS you could say, what people dont really affect to still have fun in the game

But now when i think of it, as far as i know, many people complained about mallyx, atleast there were some, like 4-6 threads, where people say its absurd, how exactly you want to use him right, because you would only kill yourself too, with spamming DoTs on yourself, like wha ? well then i missed something, because i think you can play like this with nekro too, but hey, just complain about that, what already exist on 1 class and they CHANGED mallyx completly, what i think is just BULLSHIT ! they created him like that, that the bad guys dont like to work with you, because they're EVIL, so they make sure you suffer to, when you want to use they're power, that was SUCH a cool idea !

Then people cry and complain about that and now he is destroyed for me personal, because this "story" you could say, got destroyed, so that anet listens to feedback was good in one way, but they listened TO MUCH, what i want to say is, maybe they just want to make the game like THEY which it to be, so they concentrate about that first and listen to us again, when ? i dont know, but i also wondering how people KNOW that anet doesn't listen to feedback, maybe they're read the whole time feedback, but they dont think that this will help or change in any way, because it is not the way, they want it to be, i also want anet to listen to feedback, but by thinking they would, then come others who complain about that

The problem that always will remain is, when anet listens, or dont listen, people always complain, no matter how, or for what, if anet listens so you people are happy, then other people come that wil complain, because anet listens to much on players feedback, of course they dont need to listen to EVERYTHING, but that doesn't change the point, that people will complain, no matter what somebody does ^^

[Invisible Kittens.6380]

This comparing sounds to different for me actually...because of course you wont BUY again from that person when they give a kitten about you, harsh said, but anet is just lagging on communication about NEWS you could say, what people dont really affect to still have fun in the gameI was making a simple comparison, the overall lack of news is basically a non-responsive aspect, the same way i described it. People are still leaving, most of them to FFXIV - and a lot of them stopped having fun because of the long waiting time (hardcore raiding community, WvW people...) - It wasn't meant to be the exact same thing, to clear it up.Overall my point was that communication is always better for a company, and that's why im confused why they don't do it more. I personally always like transperancy when it comes to something I put my money into or support.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:The Gift of Upgrades isn't even in the game, but still in development. We can't really know what it will be like at release.It may be a bit premature to base cost feedback on Legendary Runes and Sigils before the actual implementation.Also, it may not take much (time or resources) to adjust the quantities in a recipe.

It is on the API. Now if they plan on reducing the cost, then it makes adding it on the API that much worse. Why add misleading information?

[Saerin.1032]

@"maddoctor.2738"

"The images show a terrible UI, ""IF"" it stays that way"

So your saying that gave feedback about a feature, that is not here yet, that you think will be terrible, but you dont even know IF it stays like that, that if it changes, your feedback was for nothing, IF it stays the way it is, it was not for nothing

hmmmm sounds opposition ^^

i see it coming that the answer will be "because they listen to my feedback then" xD

yes and that means this thread is just a big "mimimi" thread, about something, that they actually do, but nobody belives because they dont do it TO much ^^