Anet back in Silent Mode

[maddoctor.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:I'm saying Anet doesn't need your feedback before content is released.

Already answered this, but I guess it needs repeating: so they'd rather play damage control instead of avoiding the damage altogether. Good to know

Do not equate Anet communicating more with players as an opportunity to play armchair game developer.

I guess it was these bad armchair game developers that made Rebound a better skill, than the planned one. They changed how Mordrem Snipers work due to feedback from the beta. There were guilds invited to try the previous Raids, and it's why those were better received than the last two that had no raid guilds testing them. There are lots of examples of changes that happened thanks to early access to content. It's a process every mmorpg out there uses to some extent, Arenanet is fixated on giving us previews a week before they go live, as if they are afraid of their work.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Saerin.1032 said:So your saying that gave feedback about a feature, that is not here yet, that you think will be terrible, but you dont even know IF it stays like that, that if it changes, your feedback was for nothing, IF it stays the way it is, it was not for nothing

First, if they post misleading information that's even worse than no information. On a blog post that was supposed to inform us of something coming next week they should give us how things look. If there are changes to it, it will be due to player feedback, not mine alone, there are many who found the UI bad (or pointless). The question is if one week is enough to push changes.

[zealex.9410]

@Saerin.1032 said:@"maddoctor.2738"

"The images show a terrible UI, ""IF"" it stays that way"

So your saying that gave feedback about a feature, that is not here yet, that you think will be terrible, but you dont even know IF it stays like that, that if it changes, your feedback was for nothing, IF it stays the way it is, it was not for nothing

Because anet has conditioned ppl to think that if they (anet) release any kind of info and said info has footage and they say its comming a week later then thats pretty final.

They basically did the same thing a couple weeks ago with the balance patch....

[Astralporing.1957]

@Obtena.7952 said:I didn't say it doesn't need player feedback. I'm saying Anet doesn't need your feedback before content is released.

You were already given examples of the time when if they did receive feedback before content was released, it could have spared them bad PR. There were also some examples where they did receive feedback before, they acted on it, and they were spared (remember perhaps the guild commander tag changes debacle?).

If they need feedback (and they do, even you admitted that), having it before something breaks is way better than playing catch-up later.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do?

One week isn't enough time to identify and fix problems. It's not enough time to provide feedback and then act on that feedback.

That doesn't make sense ... how are you going to identify problems when you haven't even played the content? Again, feedback happens AFTER the implementation, not before it.

Let's be very clear here; do not use the need for communication as a ruse to interfere with Anet's development process.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Would that touch a nerve? Too close to the truth?Not really, I just wonder if that would be honest or reasonable itself.

@Obtena.7952 said:Honestly, I don't believe that communication compels anyone to log in and enjoy a gameHas anyone here said that communication compels them to log in and enjoy the game?

What is the 'need' then for more communication? Why do players NEED Anet to tell them what is going on more often than they do? Seems to me that need doesn't exist, because it shouldn't prevent you from playing the game if you don't get it. This isn't an unreasonable question. Do you NEED Anet to communicate with you to enjoy the game? What Is the NEED here other than to satisfy whims of players that don't like things?

The less a player feels like their concerns for a game, a game that they care about, are being listened to...the less likely they are going to feel like they should invest their time into it.

Sure ... but that's not what is happening here. See you are complaining in this sentence about being listened to ... that has nothing to do with how Anet communicates with you. Anet could stop ALL communication with players but listen to them more. You are still in this idea that Anet doesn't listen to players. The fact is that the general message from players is not consistent, so they can't listen to you: Anet can't make the game everything to everyone. They literally have to make ONE choice and implement it. That doesn't mean Anet doesn't listen to you.

If you playing the game is dependent on how well you think Anet listens to you instead of the service the game provides, you better check your motivation to play the game.

Well first off...you're viewing feedback and criticism of their approach to these things as...a negative? Why? You yourself expressed concern over the recent and upcoming update with Legendary Upgrades. That is feedback...and criticism. You're saying "how are you going to identify problems when you haven't even played the current content" yet that is exactly what you expressed concern over in regards to the Legendary Upgrades.

Why are you viewing this viewpoint as a negative? That its a "ruse" to "interfere with Anet's development process"? That isn't what heeding community feedback and criticism is. This isn't a scenario where we're wanting them to do something completely unreasonable and completely out of malice or ill will towards ANet, if that is what your perspective on it is. That is very far from the case and I believe that has been repeated multiple times now.

True, there are a lot of messages that come from players that aren't consistent, for sure, but there are clearly ones that are or at the very least ANet believes warrant looking into. This has shown to be the case with how they've in the past listened to it and implemented it. That is exactly what happened with Revenant before it released; it did not have weapon swapping during HoT Beta Weekend 1. So yes, they have listened in the past and they have had a better approach to it in the past...but that does not mean that the circumstances today are the same as they were almost over 4 years ago. They are very clearly very different, which can be seen in how little time they give themselves from notifying us of a balance patch and then the release of said balance patch, as well as how little time they give between the announcement of a content release and the actual release of that content.

There are more than enough examples of game developers heeding community feedback on a particular piece of content and changing things accordingly before its release that has lead to much better reception, as well as much better enjoyment of said content. ANet is included in these examples, but a past ANet...not the current one we see today.

[Guy.9207]

Lemme just give you a quick example I suppose.

A guy coming to you with a bright idea. The said idea could certainly benefit from your opinions and thoughts before becoming a reality.

You certainly don't need them, but hearing from the people you are making things for will at least polish the ideas to an extent where it's satisfactory to the player base.

Then there's "which feedback should I accept?"

It's the thing anet has to ask themselves about qualities that "make a good game", if it's in line with their core ideas, whether it will be used/paid off. No one has the certain answer considering the subjectivity, but then again it means Anet has the final say in the topic, thus it's still their game and their decision.

Then again, you don't know if someone's happy with your work by not talking about it; this is what feedbacks are for, and possibly why people are not happy about them. Unless you're making a hobby project for yourself, feedbacks are going to be beneficial, you just have to know when to say "this is dumb".

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"NeverLoseGuy.3894" said:Lemme just give you a quick example I suppose.

A guy coming to you with a bright idea. The said idea could certainly benefit from your opinions and thoughts before becoming a reality.

You certainly don't need them, but hearing from the people you are making things for will at least polish the ideas to an extent where it's satisfactory to the player base.

Then there's "which feedback should I accept?"

It's the thing anet has to ask themselves about qualities that "make a good game", if it's in line with their core ideas, whether it will be used/paid off. No one has the certain answer considering the subjectivity, but then again it means Anet has the final say in the topic, thus it's still their game and their decision.

Then again, you don't know if someone's happy with your work by not talking about it; this is what feedbacks are for, and possibly why people are not happy about them. Unless you're making a hobby project for yourself, feedbacks are going to be beneficial, you just have to know when to say "this is dumb".

Thank you for this post, because it seems like some don't quite grasp this idea which is kind of disappointing.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Lots of communication coming up; perhaps, ArenaNet heard the pleas.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Lots of communication coming up; perhaps, ArenaNet heard the pleas.

We'll see. We still don't know what this upcoming announcement includes so we can't be sure how forthcoming they are going to be, or how vague.

We'll see.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Well, they are asking for 'feedback' (questions) and announced it a month in advance. That was what some laments were about, so...perhaps, they listened to the current feedback on communication.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Well, they are asking for 'feedback' (questions) and announced it a month in advance. That was what some laments were about, so...perhaps, they listened to the current feedback on communication.

Perhaps.

We'll see.

I prefer to remain skeptical until the actual presentation. That last thing I want to do, and the last thing really anyone who echoed my concerns in this thread should do, is get pulled into the "hype" over just an announcement of a developer presentation with no information beyond that.

[Obtena.7952]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Well, they are asking for 'feedback' (questions) and announced it a month in advance. That was what some laments were about, so...perhaps, they listened to the current feedback on communication.

Perhaps.

We'll see.

I prefer to remain skeptical until the actual presentation. That last thing I want to do, and the last thing really anyone who echoed my concerns in this thread should do, is get pulled into the "hype" over

just

an announcement of a developer presentation with no information beyond that.

See ... the skepticism by people that want more communication has ALREADY started. It's predictable as the sun rising.

[Etria.3642]

Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

[Pifil.5193]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Well, they are asking for 'feedback' (questions) and announced it a month in advance. That was what some laments were about, so...perhaps, they listened to the current feedback on communication.

Perhaps.

We'll see.

I prefer to remain skeptical until the actual presentation. That last thing I want to do, and the last thing really anyone who echoed my concerns in this thread should do, is get pulled into the "hype" over

just

an announcement of a developer presentation with no information beyond that.

See ... the skepticism by people that want more communication has ALREADY started. It's predictable as the sun rising.

About as predictable as the "zomg u guys are never happy with the communication you haven't got yet" post.

This is really just an announcement about a marketing event coming in 5 weeks, skepticism is quite reasonable, IMO and it hardly seems all that indicative of any real improvement in communication strategy to me.

[Obtena.7952]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Well, they are asking for 'feedback' (questions) and announced it a month in advance. That was what some laments were about, so...perhaps, they listened to the current feedback on communication.

Perhaps.

We'll see.

I prefer to remain skeptical until the actual presentation. That last thing I want to do, and the last thing really anyone who echoed my concerns in this thread should do, is get pulled into the "hype" over

just

an announcement of a developer presentation with no information beyond that.

See ... the skepticism by people that want more communication has ALREADY started. It's predictable as the sun rising.

About as predictable as the "zomg u guys are never happy with the communication you haven't got yet" post.

This is really just an announcement about a marketing event coming in 5 weeks, skepticism is quite reasonable, IMO and it hardly seems all that indicative of any real improvement in communication strategy to me.

Yeah because the guy complaining didn't JUST acknowledge that Anet communicated with us ... GG

[Gintoki.3957]

Well, it's nice to see that they will be having some sort of "big" announcement, i find it funny to see comments like "maby ANet listen to our please for communication". Not sure the procedure for Anet but a lot of companies will plan events weeks if not months in advance. This event was alreadly likly in the planning stage before this post was created.

[Obtena.7952]

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

Well, I can because basically, no matter what Anet does, they can't win so why should they try appease these kinds of frivolous complaints? Anet doesn't communicate ... they are terrible communicators. Anet does communicate ... it's just a big show and not 'real' communication.

People just aren't being honest here. It's not the communication that's the problem they have .. it's the idea that they don't think they are being listened to. Not sure why honesty is such a big barrier here.

[zealex.9410]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

Well, I can because basically, no matter what Anet does, they can't win so why should they try appease these kinds of frivolous complaints? Anet doesn't communicate ... they are terrible communicators. Anet does communicate ... it's just a big show and not 'real' communication.

People just aren't being honest here. It's not the communication that's the problem they have .. it's the idea that they don't think they are being listened to. Not sure why honesty is such a big barrier here.

Looking forward to the stream and then another silence of x months.

[Pifil.5193]

@"Gintoki.3957" said:Well, it's nice to see that they will be having some sort of "big" announcement, i find it funny to see comments like "maby ANet listen to our please for communication". Not sure the procedure for Anet but a lot of companies will plan events weeks if not months in advance. This event was alreadly likly in the planning stage before this post was created.

Yeah, this would have to have been planned for a long time, after all they had to book a venue during PAX West, not cheap and not something you simply do on a whim, I'm sure.

It's nice to see them marketing the game, hopefully the announcement is substantial.

[Perihen the Thawk.9527]

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

Perhaps.

We'll see.

I prefer to remain skeptical until the actual presentation. That last thing I want to do, and the last thing really anyone who echoed my concerns in this thread should do, is get pulled into the "hype" over just an announcement of a developer presentation with no information beyond that.

Awww, come on, it's fun.

Joooin usss.

[Obtena.7952]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

Well, I can because basically, no matter what Anet does, they can't win so why should they try appease these kinds of frivolous complaints? Anet doesn't communicate ... they are terrible communicators. Anet does communicate ... it's just a big show and not 'real' communication.

People just aren't being honest here. It's not the communication that's the problem they have .. it's the idea that they don't think they are being listened to. Not sure why honesty is such a big barrier here.

Looking forward to the stream and then another silence of x months.

Hey, if that's their pattern, why would any reasonable person expect otherwise? I don't get why all these people have talked themselves into the idea that more communication = more interaction with players. That's not real. A few examples doesn't make that true.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I'm saying Anet doesn't need your feedback before content is released.

Already answered this, but I guess it needs repeating: so they'd rather play damage control instead of avoiding the damage altogether. Good to know

Do not equate Anet communicating more with players as an opportunity to play armchair game developer.

I guess it was these bad armchair game developers that made Rebound a better skill, than the planned one. They changed how Mordrem Snipers work due to feedback from the beta. There were guilds invited to try the previous Raids, and it's why those were better received than the last two that had no raid guilds testing them. There are lots of examples of changes that happened thanks to early access to content. It's a process every mmorpg out there uses to some extent, Arenanet is fixated on giving us previews a week before they go live, as if they are afraid of their work.

Don't be dishonest here ... Anet ALSO (by your OWN examples) gets player feedback and listens to it's players. NO one is arguing they shouldn't be doing that. It's about WHEN they should do that.

[zealex.9410]

Hoenstly im convinced the only reason they spoke about it a month in advamce is just because its not a pre recorded event and ppl can attend. And even then a month's notice is kinda meh.

[zealex.9410]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

Well, I can because basically, no matter what Anet does, they can't win so why should they try appease these kinds of frivolous complaints? Anet doesn't communicate ... they are terrible communicators. Anet does communicate ... it's just a big show and not 'real' communication.

People just aren't being honest here. It's not the communication that's the problem they have .. it's the idea that they don't think they are being listened to. Not sure why honesty is such a big barrier here.

Looking forward to the stream and then another silence of x months.

Hey, if that's their pattern, why would any reasonable person expect otherwise? I don't get why all these people have talked themselves into the idea that more communication = more interaction with players. That's not real. A few examples doesn't make that true.

Its not expecting otherwise, its being displeased with what we are getting and therefor giving some feedback about it. Or am i not allowed to give feedback before we see the event?

[Obtena.7952]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

@Etria.3642 said:Well you can't blame them. It's like if I told my child a couple months before school is out that I will tell him where we'll be going for summer vacation in a month. When we go on a trip every single summer and in January I said we'd be going again. The boy would be like. Uhm. Why can't you tell me NOW?

Even if it was because I didn't KNOW right now then why tell him at all? To reassure him we are going?

Well, I can because basically, no matter what Anet does, they can't win so why should they try appease these kinds of frivolous complaints? Anet doesn't communicate ... they are terrible communicators. Anet does communicate ... it's just a big show and not 'real' communication.

People just aren't being honest here. It's not the communication that's the problem they have .. it's the idea that they don't think they are being listened to. Not sure why honesty is such a big barrier here.

Looking forward to the stream and then another silence of x months.

Hey, if that's their pattern, why would any reasonable person expect otherwise? I don't get why all these people have talked themselves into the idea that more communication = more interaction with players. That's not real. A few examples doesn't make that true.

Its not expecting otherwise, its being displeased with what we are getting and therefor giving some feedback about it. Or am i not allowed to give feedback before we see the event?

Give all the feedback you want, just don't complain if Anet doesn't do anything about it like 99% of the people that think they are armchair game devs. It's simply not a realistic process to think feedback means Anet does what you want.