Hard mode in gw2 as a vanquish?

[The Ace.9105]

Vanquish is a thing from gw1 where you clear the map aka. kill all the enemies in the map instance.

In gw2 there could be an npc or a portal at the beginning of the map that would take you to a 10-man version of the open world map where you have to complete all the events etc. to earn exclusive rewards from boss kills and end reward from the map clear.

There are already bosses with mechanics in open world maps that sometimes don't get used that well cause there's just too much ppl so it would basically be raid like content that you could do with your friends in a small group.

This could be like the "hard mode" of guild wars 2.

Edit. New ideas popping out of nowhere.This could also be a guild thing where the map clear would happen in a form of a guild mission and would have minimum/maximum players required to clear a map.

[maddoctor.2738]

@The Ace.9105 said:that would take you to a 10-man version of the open world map

So you want them to add about 49 10-man instances to the game at once... how would this even be populated I don't know. Also Vanquish in GW1 was mostly a solo experience, don't mistake heroes for other players.

[The Ace.9105]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:that would take you to a 10-man version of the open world map

So you want them to add about 49 10-man instances to the game at once... how would this even be populated I don't know. Also Vanquish in GW1 was mostly a solo experience, don't mistake heroes for other players.

Not necessarily at once. Your experience might have been a solo experience but initially you did it with other players. GW1 wasn't a solo game unless you made it solo. Also, it would be fun group content for gw2 that would actively get new content for you and your friends with the living world releases and would give the raid community something to do as well.

[Randulf.7614]

What about events requiring more than 10 people?Is there repeat rewards or is it once and done?How do you prevent normal open world maps from being depopulated?

There's also other issues with them having to take more time on development per episode to implement this (it's not just a case of turning up the scaling).

I get the idea and its been suggested before, but I can't see it at all compatible with how GW2 is set up. GW1 worked because it is an utterly different type of game.

[maddoctor.2738]

@The Ace.9105 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:that would take you to a 10-man version of the open world map

So you want them to add about 49 10-man instances to the game at once... how would this even be populated I don't know. Also Vanquish in GW1 was mostly a solo experience, don't mistake heroes for other players.

Not necessarily at once. Your experience might have been a solo experience but initially you did it with other players. GW1 wasn't a solo game unless you made it solo. Also, it would be fun group content for gw2 that would actively get new content for you and your friends with the living world releases and would give the raid community something to do as well.

I didn't say GW1 was a solo game, there were parts were going with a party was really good, not required, it just made things way faster, like Domain of Anguish or the dungeons. Also, the rewards were great there and repeatable. On the other hand vanquishing never had worthy repeatable rewards, if going for the rewards you were going to farm specific bosses, there was literally zero reason to vanquish an entire zone for a second time. So yes I stand by what I said that vanquishing was a SOLO experience. Btw when it was added we had heroes, at that point the game was a solo experience (outside those hard-repeatable dungeons)

Also maps in GW2 are gigantic and mobs are too sparse, doing a map completion that requires simply interacting with some objects is tedious experience, now you want to add a brand new mode that is even worse? Hunting for those moas hiding at the edge of Queensdale sounds so hardcore and exciting -not.

[Loosmaster.8263]

Since it's been a long time for any guild enhancements, this would be a good idea for guild missions.

[The Ace.9105]

@Randulf.7614 said:What about events requiring more than 10 people?Is there repeat rewards or is it once and done?How do you prevent normal open world maps from being depopulated?

There's also other issues with them having to take more time on development per episode to implement this (it's not just a case of turning up the scaling).

I get the idea and its been suggested before, but I can't see it at all compatible with how GW2 is set up. GW1 worked because it is an utterly different type of game.

The events have event scaling already and it could be like daily/weekly clear if there's problems to get ppl to the new map releases which i doubt cause the game isn't dead. Infact, I believe this would bring the afk ppl from LA to play the maps more cause there would be something more to do.

It would bring another aspect to map development but once they learn to do it it becomes automatic standard for the development process and it doesn't really take extra time cause the maps are going to be developed with the 10-man hard mode in mind.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

There's massive differences between GW2 and GW1 that make vanquishing sensible in the latter and not in the former.

• Foes respawn in GW2; they didn't in GW1.
• Maps are instanced for small groups in GW1; they are massively multiplayer in GW2.
• GW1 didn't include events or hearts, which are part of GW2 maps.

So even if it were easy/cheap to throw up special instances, ANet would still have to retool them to make vanquishing possible. They'd also have to decide what rewards to offer, if any.

In GW2, you can certainly apply the Vanquish method to dungeons: nearly all the "adds" drop loot, and given that some of it is mid-tier, it's relatively valuable. With power-creeped builds, it's also doesn't take tons longer.

[The Ace.9105]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:There's massive differences between GW2 and GW1 that make vanquishing sensible in the latter and not in the former.

• Foes respawn in GW2; they didn't in GW1.
• Maps are instanced for small groups in GW1; they are massively multiplayer in GW2.
• GW1 didn't include events or hearts, which are part of GW2 maps.

So even if it were easy/cheap to throw up special instances, ANet would still have to retool them to make vanquishing possible. They'd also have to decide what rewards to offer, if any.

In GW2, you can certainly apply the Vanquish method to dungeons: nearly all the "adds" drop loot, and given that some of it is mid-tier, it's relatively valuable. With power-creeped builds, it's also doesn't take tons longer.

The foes can respawn, you would be just clearing the events that happen in the map and once cleared, you'd be rewarded and the bosses etc. you clear during the run would spawn a chest with a chance to get something nice.

[The Ace.9105]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:that would take you to a 10-man version of the open world map

So you want them to add about 49 10-man instances to the game at once... how would this even be populated I don't know. Also Vanquish in GW1 was mostly a solo experience, don't mistake heroes for other players.

Not necessarily at once. Your experience might have been a solo experience but initially you did it with other players. GW1 wasn't a solo game unless you made it solo. Also, it would be fun group content for gw2 that would actively get new content for you and your friends with the living world releases and would give the raid community something to do as well.

I didn't say GW1 was a solo game, there were parts were going with a party was really good, not required, it just made things way faster, like Domain of Anguish or the dungeons. Also, the rewards were great there and repeatable. On the other hand vanquishing never had worthy repeatable rewards, if going for the rewards you were going to farm specific bosses, there was literally zero reason to vanquish an entire zone for a second time. So yes I stand by what I said that vanquishing was a SOLO experience. Btw when it was added we had heroes, at that point the game was a solo experience (outside those hard-repeatable dungeons)

Also maps in GW2 are gigantic and mobs are too sparse, doing a map completion that requires simply interacting with some objects is tedious experience, now you want to add a brand new mode that is even worse? Hunting for those moas hiding at the edge of Queensdale sounds so hardcore and exciting -not.

Yeah, in gw1 vanquish wasn't really repeated. The idea is to get some small group content for guilds/friends to do that could get frequently updated with the living world stuff. It's not like you'd lose anything if anet would do this. This would be more content to the game that wouldn't necessarily be that big of an effort to implement and would bring a lot of content to the game pretty easily and keep guilds doing gameplay stuff together.

Gw2 is very different game so it wouldn't be like the gw1 vanquish cause we have events with end event bosses etc.Some maps like Queensdale are more casual maps that are pretty easy to complete. Not every map has to be hardcore raid map. Some people actually enjoy the moa event.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You state it would not be a 'big effort', but you really don't know what would be involved in changing an open world map into an instance with new rules for a small group.
It might be easy, it might take a lot of work and resources.
It might be popular, or it might only appeal to a small part of the playerbase.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"The Ace.9105" said:The foes can respawn,How can you tell if you've VQ'd then?

you would be just clearing the events that happen in the mapThe events respawn. How would the game be able to tell if you "cleared the events on the map"? That's new (and not simple) code.

and once cleared, you'd be rewarded and the bosses etc. you clear during the run would spawn a chest with a chance to get something nice.That's a new reward, which is not simple to add (as you might have noticed, given the reaction to Boss Week's rewards and other special events).

GW2, as it exists today, is not setup for vanquishing.

[Yumenei.7943]

Current population is already pretty low, with some maps being empty for most of time and you want to segregate people even further. I wouldn’t say it’s a good idea ;)

[Game of Bones.8975]

The only way it would really work is if you had to kill "X"-number of monsters/bosses or earn "XX" amount of experience within a certain time period.

What you are describing to me sound a lot like raids or fractals; small groups of coordinated players fighting toward a common goal in a separate game instance.

I've asked about an instanced Hard Mode many times and usually get the same snarky answers.

[Yumenei.7943]

Would do you think about this:The only way I could see it work if there was no raids in Guild Wars 2 and this mode would replace them also in terms of rewards. It wouldn’t be about killing X number of monsters, but rather it would open up a sepetrate instance of the map for a group of 10 people and their aim would be to complete series of unique chain events that would culminate in a big, hard meta event. These events would be much different from normal mode. For example in Fields of Ruin the events would be about protecting Ebonhawk from Seperatists. You would start with small events in the open field, that are rather insignificant, but completing them would make meta event easier (like helping ogres and getting them on your side, saving kidnaped soldiers, saving truce with Charrs etc.) and at the end you would need to defend Ebonhawk from big invasion (few boss fights in-between). Every week maps would rotate and there would be only 4 maps available for Vanquish Mode, so that you can’t farm one easier map for eternity. It would also make new map releases from LWS somewhat more interesting (also it would probably take longer to release them, but the aforementioned events are still easier to script than whole raids with new mechanics in completely new locations). And of course Vanquish Mode would yield the same reward raid do as it would replaced them entirely.

This would be the kind of hardcore content I would be seriously interested in, but somewhere during development of HoT ANet decided that they don’t want their game to be the most unique MMORPG anymore and they started to cater to the average MMO crowd. The thing about designing MMORPG is that you need to make long terms decisions. Adding new hardcore PvE mode on top of Fractals and Raids would make those more obscure, as you would divide players’ interests even further.

[Dami.5046]

The minute they add hero/hench the second they will do something like this.Opps. No one wants Hero/hench.

[Glider.5792]

Vanquish just needs to become a new PvE game mode by itself. Anet could possibly just make some new PvE maps (smaller ones, filling in the void/mush on the map), where the maps would have 0 story, only filled with veterans/elites/champs/legendary. You would enter with a party of 5, and would have to clear out the whole map of mobs to "secure safety for new villages/settlements/pathways".

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:that would take you to a 10-man version of the open world map

So you want them to add about 49 10-man instances to the game at once... how would this even be populated I don't know.

With 10 people? How do old maps get populated anyway? Population issues dont seem to be stopping ArenaNet making new maps. I doubt many would go back to old maps in general. Unless something is there to bring them back.

Its well known how population on older maps dwindles.

Ofcourse, a question being, does it need to be instanced?

Also Vanquish in GW1 was mostly a solo experience, don't mistake heroes for other players.

Don't mistake your experience for everyone else's experience. Because then everything in GW1 outside of PvP and the faction elite missions would be a solo experience.

Hell, you can solo Arah, doesnt make it a solo experience in general either.

It has no traction as an argument in this discussion anyway, as a hypothetical vanquish mode in GW2 would never be the same as in GW1. Same as dungeons aren't.

[maddoctor.2738]

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:With 10 people? How do old maps get populated anyway?

Finding 10 players at the same place in the open world outside big meta events (or an event daily) is hard anyway. Also, see how much populated individual dungeons or fractals are, outside the potential dailies.

Don't mistake your experience for everyone else's experience.

I already explained why vanquishing was a solo experience, because one it was incredibly boring/tedious and second there were no rewards for doing it a second time, it was mostly similar to world completion in GW2, you don't really need people for that. Now if despite all that you did it in a group, good for you, that doesn't change that it was designed as a solo experience.

It has no traction as an argument in this discussion anyway, as a hypothetical vanquish mode in GW2 would never be the same as in GW1.

I only read what the OP said, that they want it to be like GW1 although they didn't give any information on how it would work.

[The Ace.9105]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"The Ace.9105" said:The foes can respawn,How can you tell if you've VQ'd then?

Don't take the vanquish literally, gw1 didn't have events and didn't have respawning mobs so you killed all the mobs. In gw2 you'd have area vanquished when you complete all of its events etc. and clear the map.

you would be just clearing the events that happen in the mapThe events respawn. How would the game be able to tell if you "cleared the events on the map"? That's new (and not simple) code.

I'd say it's pretty simple to implement.

and once cleared, you'd be rewarded and the bosses etc. you clear during the run would spawn a chest with a chance to get something nice.That's a new reward, which is not simple to add (as you might have noticed, given the reaction to Boss Week's rewards and other special events).

That's essentially just changing the drop table of the loot in that instance.GW2, as it exists today, is not setup for vanquishing.

I disagree. Anet could easily design maps that have the 10-man mode and it would go with the living story releases to give more content to us players.

[The Ace.9105]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:With 10 people? How do old maps get populated anyway?

Finding 10 players at the same place in the open world outside big meta events (or an event daily) is hard anyway. Also, see how much populated individual dungeons or fractals are, outside the potential dailies.

Don't mistake your experience for everyone else's experience.

I already explained why vanquishing was a solo experience, because one it was incredibly boring/tedious and second there were no rewards for doing it a second time, it was mostly similar to world completion in GW2, you don't really need people for that. Now if despite all that you did it in a group, good for you, that doesn't change that it was designed as a solo experience.

It has no traction as an argument in this discussion anyway, as a hypothetical vanquish mode in GW2 would never be the same as in GW1.

I only read what the OP said, that they want it to be like GW1 although they didn't give any information on how it would work.

Clear the map by completing all of its events. Some maps are more casual and some maps more hc. As it is currently there's not a lot of replay value on some maps so this would at least give the initiative to play those maps again.

[Brother.1504]

Don’t think vanquish mode is possible for open world gw2. You could probably engineer a vanquish hard mode for core dungeon paths.

[The Ace.9105]

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:The only way it would really work is if you had to kill "X"-number of monsters/bosses or earn "XX" amount of experience within a certain time period.

What you are describing to me sound a lot like raids or fractals; small groups of coordinated players fighting toward a common goal in a separate game instance.

I've asked about an instanced Hard Mode many times and usually get the same snarky answers.

Some of the maps/bosses have great mechanics that just don't get used cause there's a stack of 50 ppl that doesn't die to anything. How the gw2 vanquish would work is by clearing the events on the map.

[The Ace.9105]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:You state it would not be a 'big effort', but you really don't know what would be involved in changing an open world map into an instance with new rules for a small group.

It might be easy, it might take a lot of work and resources.

It might be popular, or it might only appeal to a small part of the playerbase.

On most parts, map clearing would be pretty casual so i'd say that many guilds would do the instance clears as a content to spend time actually playing the game instead of afk in LA.

[The Ace.9105]

@Brother.1504 said:Don’t think vanquish mode is possible for open world gw2. You could probably engineer a vanquish hard mode for core dungeon paths.

I think it would be possible and pretty easily actually with separate instance for 10-man group.