S/D Condi Discussion thread

[Razor.6392]

Let's just say, unless you're playing [one of the few builds that encompass both CC and hardcore condi removal], you will not have a good time.

This build lacks counterplay in general for how easy it is to be successful with it. sword #2 into dodge spam, repeat. That's literally all you have to do. Mix steal somewhere in between and that's it.

In an ideal world, builds this easy to play should not be that effective. Not even close.

[DaShi.1368]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:??? How can he test the s/d build then? Of course, he was playing it to demonstrate it's effectiveness. His own pics did a better job of showing that than yours. How much he's played thief after that thread is irrelevant to any argument here. You are making great leaps in logic just to attack this guy.

Not so much, I post actual proof while they didn't. Since anyone can place high if they have any competency at Pvp. And they claim in Pvp for all their claims guess what WvW isn't Pvp testing in WvW doesn't mean anything in Pvp since so much is completely different interesting isn't it. And they still claim to not play it but that was proven wrong, how about you post proof that they didn't play before? Oh wait....

Again, your proof didn't prove anything. Azuka's own pics showed that he played thief to test s/d and made it to platinum. Your pic added nothing. Again, what he then did afterwards with his thief is not relevant. He could be playing thief everyday now, but that doesn't change his argument about s/d or his performance in your duel. So, the only reason to keep going on with this charade is to engage in a personal attack against another poster because you don't like that he pointed out how s/d is overperforming.

[Razor.6392]

@Sojourner.4621 said:Oh, and Unhindered Combatant combined with Escapist's Absolution not only frees you from the immobilize and the caltrops Area of Effect, but it also removes all the conditions you gained because you just evaded through an AoE field.

Damn! I didn't know [1] condi removed per individual dodge could remove poison, confusion, bleed, torment and vulnerability from the sigil!

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Razor.6392 said:Let's just say, unless you're playing [one of the few builds that encompass both CC and hardcore condi removal], you will not have a good time.

This build lacks counterplay in general for how easy it is to be successful with it. sword #2 into dodge spam, repeat. That's literally all you have to do. Mix steal somewhere in between and that's it.

In an ideal world, builds this easy to play should not be that effective. Not even close.

Every Meta build has ample cleanse to counter this build, players just don't properly manage their Condi cleanses, that's the issue. You don't have to load up on cleanses to counter and if they try to use the Sword 2 Kiting technique it can be seen where they will port back to so kite to that spot so they can't kite you, don't need excessive CC if that is done. You can tell when their Return is going to expire before they teleport back as well, it is on the buff bar.

Any projectile defense shuts the build down any blockss and evades as well.

[DaShi.1368]

@Razor.6392 said:Let's just say, unless you're playing [one of the few builds that encompass both CC and hardcore condi removal], you will not have a good time.

This build lacks counterplay in general for how easy it is to be successful with it. sword #2 into dodge spam, repeat. That's literally all you have to do. Mix steal somewhere in between and that's it.

In an ideal world, builds this easy to play should not be that effective. Not even close.

I agree. My solution would be to remove the immobilize from sword 2 and replace it with vulnerability and cripple. This allows the sword to remain effective as a power weapon, while nerfing its ability to stack so many damaging conditions and allowing a bit more counterplay.

[Azukas.1426]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@DaShi.1368 said:??? How can he test the s/d build then? Of course, he was playing it to demonstrate it's effectiveness. His own pics did a better job of showing that than yours. How much he's played thief after that thread is irrelevant to any argument here. You are making great leaps in logic just to attack this guy.

Not so much, I post actual proof while they didn't. Since anyone can place high if they have any competency at Pvp. And they claim in Pvp for all their claims guess what WvW isn't Pvp testing in WvW doesn't mean anything in Pvp since so much is completely different interesting isn't it. And they still claim to not play it but that was proven wrong, how about you post proof that they didn't play before? Oh wait....

Again, your proof didn't prove anything. Azuka's own pics showed that he played thief to test s/d and made it to platinum. Your pic added nothing. Again, what he then did afterwards with his thief is not relevant. He could be playing thief everyday now, but that doesn't change his argument about s/d or his performance in your duel. So, the only reason to keep going on with this charade is to engage in a personal attack against another poster because you don't like that he pointed out how s/d is overperforming.

I don't even need to post anymore.

Anyways to answer me playing thief in WvW is simple. I started the character and I'm going to finish the character. That means I need proofs of heroics to unlock Daredevil in WvW to take my s/d condi thief into WvW for some nice "balanced" fun.

[Crackers.9628]

This seems more like a pissing contest than a discussion. Apparently anyone who isn't a l33t top 5 thief spammer doesn't count and that person's opinion doesn't count. I tried reading through the thread but you people are insufferable.

[Lighter.5631]

Hello, how long it takes to nerf condi thief? like for real, if it's not nerfed by next Tuesday, ill be playing it myself. cancers give me no choice

[alchemyst.2165]

Not OP, just annoying and inherently causes people to panic and overreact due to the presence of conditions, which makes people waste their burst cleanse and die in the first burst.

If you run a balanced build and cleanse properly (not cleansing the instant you see condis on your bar) you should be fine against it. The only thing it can really do in this case is stalemate and annoy you. I see too many people running gimmick builds like zerk and expecting to be able to survive.

[witcher.3197]

Dodging should not be the primary source of damage in a build, period. 2 button builds shouldn't be effective above gold, but condi S/D can make it to legend.

I think Anet buffed Panic Strikes to include Poison on immob because they wanted to buff P/D thief, instead they made S/D (a set with no condition damage until recent buffs to #4, which could be another buff intended for P/D) the #1 condi build for pvP which was probably unintended.

Maybe they should change immob to cripple on S/D? Loss of spammable poison could bring this in line without hurting power SD too much.

[babazhook.6805]

Dodging is not the primary source of damage in s/d thief. Impaling lotus adds one torment stack one bleed stack. Uncatchable is a very small AOE effect that leaves circles on the map that can be avoided. It adds one bleed per second if people stand in that circle. In sum total a Dodge with uncatcable will do one torment and at best 3 bleeds. That is hardly significant damage.

[kKagari.6804]

I play radiant guard, and the build chews these guys alive. Its almost like every facet of the build is made to counter S/D condition thieves.

[Xtinct.7031]

People are seriously dieing to s/d lotus condi thieves? that build has like one of the lowered condi dmg output out of all the variants...

[BobbyT.7192]

It's not like condi S/d is the only condi build you got to look out for, or that people don't already build for condi cleanses. What make this build any different?

[babazhook.6805]

@Xtinct.7031 said:People are seriously dieing to s/d lotus condi thieves? that build has like one of the lowered condi dmg output out of all the variants...

Virtually any of the traditional condition builds will pump out far more condition damage. All s/d has is access to 6 more poison stacks in exchange for 15 ini and the people complaining can not deal with this. It really little more then the latest flavor of the month when it comes to complaining about condition builds with some of the same peole all but admitting they would rather not trait cleanses as it takes away from their power damage.

It a "I can not kill these things in 10 seconds because my power damage is sacrificed to take cleanses so it must be an OP build" type arguement.

[Xtinct.7031]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Xtinct.7031 said:People are seriously dieing to s/d lotus condi thieves? that build has like one of the lowered condi dmg output out of all the variants...

Virtually any of the traditional condition builds will pump out far more condition damage. All s/d has is access to 6 more poison stacks in exchange for 15 ini and the people complaining can not deal with this. It really little more then the latest flavor of the month when it comes to complaining about condition builds with some of the same peole all but admitting they would rather not trait cleanses as it takes away from their power damage.

It a "I can not kill these things in 10 seconds because my power damage is sacrificed to take cleanses so it must be an OP build" type arguement.

Why dont these idiots play zerker medi DH and call it a day?

[Abelisk.4527]

"Panic Strike: Reduced the duration of poison applied by this trait from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.Impaling Lotus: Reduced duration of conditions applied by this skill by 50% in PvP and WvW."

[Amante.8109]

Pretty much every class got some minor buffs with the PoF patch, except Thief which got... some PvP nerfs and nothing else.

Never change, ArenaNet!

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

they did not nerf anything, they toned stuff down to sensible levels. why the hell do you need endurance on steal, endurance on heal?? we already have vigor from a few traits + an extra dodge to begin with thats stupidly OP compared to anything else.

[Amante.8109]

Define "sensible" and why those specific changes took things from "stupidly OP" to "sensible" in one fell swoop

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Amante.8109 said:Define "sensible" and why those specific changes took things from "stupidly OP" to "sensible" in one fell swoop

why the kitten do you need endurance on steal, endurance on heal?? we already have vigor from a few traits.

1 dodge does an avg 3/4k per crit + leap. other laughes at all movement debuf conditions + 450 range/10 seconds of swiftness/-10% dmg inc. the condi version is meh!

[Azukas.1426]

Looks like this Mesmer Main was correct in the end.

Go figure & now let's all enjoy the xpac.