Does the opinion matter of the players that were once hyped up about the concept of WvW but not now?

[Baldrick.8967]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Need mini objectives in the same way that Old AV had side quest that helped the team.

Small things individuals can do. In Old AV, players had to run badges to help summon powerful NPC avatars that will defend base and then crush enemies on the way to enemy base. Surprised there is no way to Run Supplies from one place to another when a structure is low on supply in a fight. But something equivalent should be done.

Also there were smaller repeatable quest to gather stuff to summon calvary and air support. This should also be a thing here with the NPC neutral faction units, but they are a total joke compared. They need serious buff.

WvW needs more to do than just structure exchange.

We need more ways to play and fight. WoW long time ago added mobile siege engines and tanks and stuff like that. We need stuff like that here, thats more accessible to all players to use and have fun with.

There are so many great ideas in the GW2 PvE, that would be great additions to WvW, such as the Environmental Weapon concept. We should have Environmental Weapons with preset skills as well. This would shake up the game play for us between Expansions, by pretty much giving us a new set of skills to fight with that Developers of WvW can set and tweek independently of PvE content since its all set to an weapon of some kind that you picked up on the battlefield.

The Rewards in WvW should also be better. Forget the armor sets and Weapon sets model. Give us 1 Unique Skin per Weapon type, independent of each other instead of in a Set, so artist can be more creative, and make them well worth the grind to get in WvW. Make people want to WvW.

Reduce the number of hits to Dismount enemies and add mount traps. But at the same time, add a new rez mechanic to the game other than those stupid Waypoints from Vanilla.Add some new form of Rez system that have players fighting and capturing revive locations and set Revive locations to work like in FPS games which use Timers to regulate the revive, not these stupid waypoints which can be contested by a solo player attacking a structure door. If Revival was handled better we wouldnt need Mounts to be as effective as they are today.

Make Holding SMC Important and most important. Make it bad to just trade SMC to retake.

This is all well and good, but again I would point out that there isn't the resources being put into wvw (evidence points to very little to none) to do any of the stuff you propose (whether it's a good idea or not).

We've all pretty much been through the stage you are currently at, with lots of bright ideas posted on the forums, etc- and then it slowly dawns on you that nothing you post here is ever actioned.

Most of us learned this years ago, and especially when the desert map was 'beta-tested' by selected guilds who suggested many many changes before it went live, all of which were ignored as it turned out it wasn't really for feedback at all, just seeing if the map 'worked'.

[Widmo.3186]

Personally, i dont really think that opinion matters, neither of current players, nor the players that dont like what WvW has become and left this mode/game. And thats all based on past experience. Company will just do what they think will be the best (for players, or gemstore). You can make discussion threads, polls, sit with 20 ppl in a circle and think for 10 hours "How to make WvW great again" and guess what will happen with those ideas? Exactly. Just grab a blanket, cup of hot tea and wait for magic called "Alliances release" thats gonna happen soon.

Small reminder, my guess from many months ago was Alliances coming in Summer 2022, nothing changed in that matter, place your bets

[Calle.8746]

@"sephiroth.4217" said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

[Diku.2546]

@"Calle.8746" said:Snip 8<What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

---

Guild Wars 2 Forum: The Library - WvW

You might find what you're looking for (scroll down) under the section Historic WvW Posts

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/886101#Comment_886101

Hope this helps.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

[Anput.4620]

I mean why would anyones opinion matter if WvW itself doesn't even matter lol.

[Roxory.9854]

Pretty much, logged on with my guild to run last night and we tried to cap 3 towers and all of us crashed every time…. I give up on wvw ever being fixed. Not only did anet do nothing to upgrade or improve wvw, they made it unplayable the day they release this pve saga. You said alliances and all we got was a crappy npc char band. No point in offering solution or advise... they do not listen. T1 with no que on reset = DEAD GAME. Sad....

[Roxory.9854]

@Anput.4620 said:I mean why would anyones opinion matter if WvW itself doesn't even matter lol.

This about sums it up perfectly

[sephiroth.4217]

@Calle.8746 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

Its a real shame too.... WvW was once a truly unique experience on the entire gaming market that was only found in this game.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Calle.8746 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

I disagree heavy. Early WvW was mostly avoiding the zerg and trading Structures just like now. Thats what turned it off. There is no PvE Meta, thats what killed WvW. It has no objectives. Only a score which benefits trading structures and recapping stuff. This why on most servers you dont really see an importance in Defense.

Also if you not in the zerg, you provide little to the team.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Calle.8746 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

I disagree heavy. Early WvW was mostly avoiding the zerg and trading Structures just like now. Thats what turned it off. There is no PvE Meta, thats what killed WvW. It has no objectives. Only a score which benefits trading structures and recapping stuff. This why on most servers you dont really see an importance in Defense.

Also if you not in the zerg, you provide little to the team.

how can you disagree facts?

my server never traded structures lol

WvW was fine until the new direction change... refer to server status and how they've drastically dropped since changes.With any luck they might refill with the new blood Anet is catering too but its taking a lot slower than Id like.

There used to be huge emphasis on defending because objectives and upgrades were player controlled and paid for by the player.There was also YB who made a push to T1 through siege and defense.

im sorry to inform you but there used to be a lot more to the game mode than zerg only. You would know this had you truly played since game release. Its mostly zerg only now but never used to be.. WvW used to cater to all classes and playstyles.

My guild was a tactical support roaming squad for instance before merging with a well known roaming guild then becoming zerg busters for lolz. If you chose to zerg only during those times, you missed out on the game modes true potential.

2 people can still defend a keep against 40... me and a friend did it 2 days ago.You can do a lot without a zerg. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps actually.

I would even argue that 2 people could easily achieve more than a bunch of 1 spamming body bags on tag so to flip your script.... its actually uneducated zergers that stack on tag that bring very little to the table, they are simply just another number.

end of the day... Anet will only listen to those who buy gems and apparently thats not us WvW or PvP players. We apparently swim in gold and convert it to gems.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Calle.8746 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

I disagree heavy. Early WvW was mostly avoiding the zerg and trading Structures just like now. Thats what turned it off. There is no PvE Meta, thats what killed WvW. It has no objectives. Only a score which benefits trading structures and recapping stuff. This why on most servers you dont really see an importance in Defense.

Also if you not in the zerg, you provide little to the team.

how can you disagree facts?

my server never traded structures lol

WvW was fine until the new direction change... refer to server status and how they've drastically dropped since changes.With any luck they might refill with the new blood Anet is catering too but its taking a lot slower than Id like.

There used to be huge emphasis on defending because objectives and upgrades were player controlled and paid for by the player.There was also YB who made a push to T1 through siege and defense.

im sorry to inform you but there used to be a lot more to the game mode than zerg only. You would know this had you truly played since game release. Its mostly zerg only now but never used to be.. WvW used to cater to all classes and playstyles.

My guild was a tactical support roaming squad for instance before merging with a well known roaming guild then becoming zerg busters for lolz. If you chose to zerg only during those times, you missed out on the game modes true potential.

2 people can still defend a keep against 40... me and a friend did it 2 days ago.You can do a lot without a zerg. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps actually.

I would even argue that 2 people could easily achieve more than a bunch of 1 spamming body bags on tag so to flip your script.... its actually uneducated zergers that stack on tag that bring very little to the table, they are simply just another number.

end of the day... Anet will only listen to those who buy gems and apparently thats not us WvW or PvP players. We apparently swim in gold and convert it to gems.

Yes and I am calling you a liar. What sever only has 2 people to defend the keep unless it's 99.9% a dead server, first of all, and no way only 2 person going to be successful at defending a keep against a Zerg. Right there shows you being misleading to form some kind of false narrative.

Back at release WvW was major hyped up and many people joined in during the excitement and that excitement faded away big time to the point Arena Net had to do the Server Links because it was that dead. This was before the Auto upgrades the severs were dying. Everybody was jumping ship because it was boring and meaningless combat. The structure trading was the most rewarding aspect of the game since Champs dropped Champ bags and capturing objectives were the reward. Most zergs avoided each other other than at random choak point encounter.

They had to add over the SPvP reward tracks to get more people in WvW since it was that lacking in reward.

The only thing solo-able are camps to a certain extent, NPC neutral factions and guard land post. Camps like structures deal with RI as well. The Neutral NPCs are weak and useless and not worth the time and investment and land grabs die way too easily and just exchanged for quick WvExp. It's lame. Many people saw this earlier on and left.

You and others like you keep throwing around the term PvE. Well the only PvE in WvW that's done on a normal bases is attacking a Gate/Wall or a Structure Lord Champ which also are dull and boring and have no threat or flavor identity to any of them. They just Champ number X.

This why I said WvW don't have smaller side objective. If you can't see that, then You are part of the problem, and one of these same people screaming for Balance yet can't even define what that is in terms of WvW.

Roaming is not fun for all people. I go to WvW for the large scale PvPvE gameplay. And they don't even do that well since as stated above WvW was designed in a way that rewarded structure exchanges rather than large fights. Same issue Warhammer Online suffered from. It's not fun. This why WvW need Meta Events with clear objectives and clear Winners every few hours so factions feel like their actions are actually contributing to a Winning Goal of some kind.

If you don't understand that and how developers actions dictate player behavior, we'll I have nothing left to say to you on this, with your "2 people successfully defending keep against a zerg of 40" half truths self.Goodbye

[sephiroth.4217]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Calle.8746 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

I disagree heavy. Early WvW was mostly avoiding the zerg and trading Structures just like now. Thats what turned it off. There is no PvE Meta, thats what killed WvW. It has no objectives. Only a score which benefits trading structures and recapping stuff. This why on most servers you dont really see an importance in Defense.

Also if you not in the zerg, you provide little to the team.

how can you disagree facts?

my server never traded structures lol

WvW was fine until the new direction change... refer to server status and how they've drastically dropped since changes.With any luck they might refill with the new blood Anet is catering too but its taking a lot slower than Id like.

There used to be huge emphasis on defending because objectives and upgrades were player controlled and paid for by the player.There was also YB who made a push to T1 through siege and defense.

im sorry to inform you but there used to be a lot more to the game mode than zerg only. You would know this had you truly played since game release. Its mostly zerg only now but never used to be.. WvW used to cater to all classes and playstyles.

My guild was a tactical support roaming squad for instance before merging with a well known roaming guild then becoming zerg busters for lolz. If you chose to zerg only during those times, you missed out on the game modes true potential.

2 people can still defend a keep against 40... me and a friend did it 2 days ago.You can do a lot without a zerg. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps actually.

I would even argue that 2 people could easily achieve more than a bunch of 1 spamming body bags on tag so to flip your script.... its actually uneducated zergers that stack on tag that bring very little to the table, they are simply just another number.

end of the day... Anet will only listen to those who buy gems and apparently thats not us WvW or PvP players. We apparently swim in gold and convert it to gems.

Yes and I am calling you a liar. What sever only has 2 people to defend the keep unless it's 99.9% a dead server, first of all, and no way only 2 person going to be successful at defending a keep against a Zerg. Right there shows you being misleading to form some kind of false narrative.

A liar hey? well that's quite the accusation you have going on there. It was actually quite easy, a little misdirection and they pulled off to defend a keep that wasn't even under attack. There's plenty of little tricks to accomplish such a meager task.

Back at release WvW was major hyped up and many people joined in during the excitement and that excitement faded away big time to the point Arena Net had to do the Server Links because it was that dead. This was before the Auto upgrades the severs were dying. Everybody was jumping ship because it was boring and meaningless combat. The structure trading was the most rewarding aspect of the game since Champs dropped Champ bags and capturing objectives were the reward. Most zergs avoided each other other than at random choak point encounter.

Definitely not in my tiers or servers, well, not until Tournaments began and everyone jumped ship for first place rewards including Golden Yak finishers.My servers down in the lower tiers were always looking for fights, so much so they would open up a tower then kill all the defenders for hours and refuse to cap.Garrison fights would last hours too.

They had to add over the SPvP reward tracks to get more people in WvW since it was that lacking in reward.

It was all about pinging them stacks of bags you got from killing players on my server and our reward was beating down well known WvW guilds and roamers..

The only thing solo-able are camps to a certain extent, NPC neutral factions and guard land post. Camps like structures deal with RI as well. The Neutral NPCs are weak and useless and not worth the time and investment and land grabs die way too easily and just exchanged for quick WvExp. It's lame. Many people saw this earlier on and left.

Seriously? Can 3-4 man keeps back in those times and still can today with ease and there was a few people that could solo it if left enough time..... Solo a tower too back then and its even easier today due to the population drop and power creep. I used to do it specifically on the borderlands but now I can solo an EB tower.

You and others like you keep throwing around the term PvE. Well the only PvE in WvW that's done on a normal bases is attacking a Gate/Wall or a Structure Lord Champ which also are dull and boring and have no threat or flavor identity to any of them. They just Champ number X.

Then why focus so hard on it if it's boring? I do it to provoke fights but every off week for me is dead during my hours.The game mode became more about PvE since our interaction as a PvP environment was taken away including the sandbox feeling where we got to choose and build our own structural upgrades which ultimately helped create a better community and server pride before that was taken away too. We got meshed together, grouped up in large numbers, stripped of server pride and competitiveness and given the utilities or tools to avoid combat with other players... Sounds an awful lot like PvE to me.

This why I said WvW don't have smaller side objective. If you can't see that, then You are part of the problem, and one of these same people screaming for Balance yet can't even define what that is in terms of WvW.

I understand that WvW is a warzone, it should cater to all players and not just zerging. It's odd that you make another accusation like that when you've presented me such a narrow minded opinion.There's still lots of small scales objectives to do, just not as many. Bloodlust is evidence that even Anet were aware at some stage that all players mattered in the game mode and all play styles were essential.

Bloodlust is a small scale objective, camps, sentries and yaks are just a few examples of small scale objectives so please don't sit there and say WvW doesn't have small scale objectives.

The most powerful weapon of war is information, usually information that only a scout or small group would supply.There's so much more to WvW than you clearly realize.

Roaming is not fun for all people.

Never said it was.

I go to WvW for the large scale PvPvE gameplay.

Good for you, I do too, but I also like to split from the zerg and do my own thing for a while.

And they don't even do that well since as stated above WvW was designed in a way that rewarded structure exchanges rather than large fights."structure exchanges" is a small part of WvW.

Same issue Warhammer Online suffered from. It's not fun.

Never played that, WvW on GW2 was enough but thanks for the new game suggestion.. Does it offer anything unique on the gaming market like WvW?

This why WvW need Meta Events with clear objectives and clear Winners every few hours so factions feel like their actions are actually contributing to a Winning Goal of some kind.

Ah yes, I understand now. Can't just play for fun, have to earn a trophy or an achievement or some sort of self validation for the time spent rather than just enjoying yourself.

If you don't understand that and how developers actions dictate player behavior, we'll I have nothing left to say to you on this, with your "2 people successfully defending keep against a zerg of 40" half truths self.

Maybe it just comes down to experience, broadening the mind a little bit and adventuring outside of the zerg more often.

Goodbye

Thanks for helping me understand where your opinion comes from, nothing else is need to be said past this because we are the 2 different opinions I referenced earlier.

@sephiroth.4217 said:sandbox pvp feeling or the marked and warclaw road

I hope I've answered all of your questions and false accusations to your satisfaction, Goodbye.

[Anput.4620]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Calle.8746 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

I disagree heavy. Early WvW was mostly avoiding the zerg and trading Structures just like now. Thats what turned it off. There is no PvE Meta, thats what killed WvW. It has no objectives. Only a score which benefits trading structures and recapping stuff. This why on most servers you dont really see an importance in Defense.

Also if you not in the zerg, you provide little to the team.

how can you disagree facts?

my server never traded structures lol

WvW was fine until the new direction change... refer to server status and how they've drastically dropped since changes.With any luck they might refill with the new blood Anet is catering too but its taking a lot slower than Id like.

There used to be huge emphasis on defending because objectives and upgrades were player controlled and paid for by the player.There was also YB who made a push to T1 through siege and defense.

im sorry to inform you but there used to be a lot more to the game mode than zerg only. You would know this had you truly played since game release. Its mostly zerg only now but never used to be.. WvW used to cater to all classes and playstyles.

My guild was a tactical support roaming squad for instance before merging with a well known roaming guild then becoming zerg busters for lolz. If you chose to zerg only during those times, you missed out on the game modes true potential.

2 people can still defend a keep against 40... me and a friend did it 2 days ago.You can do a lot without a zerg. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps actually.

I would even argue that 2 people could easily achieve more than a bunch of 1 spamming body bags on tag so to flip your script.... its actually uneducated zergers that stack on tag that bring very little to the table, they are simply just another number.

end of the day... Anet will only listen to those who buy gems and apparently thats not us WvW or PvP players. We apparently swim in gold and convert it to gems.

Yes and I am calling you a liar. What sever only has 2 people to defend the keep unless it's 99.9% a dead server, first of all, and no way only 2 person going to be successful at defending a keep against a Zerg. Right there shows you being misleading to form some kind of false narrative.

A liar hey? well that's quite the accusation you have going on there. It was actually quite easy, a little misdirection and they pulled off to defend a keep that wasn't even under attack. There's plenty of little tricks to accomplish such a meager task.

Back at release WvW was major hyped up and many people joined in during the excitement and that excitement faded away big time to the point Arena Net had to do the Server Links because it was that dead. This was before the Auto upgrades the severs were dying. Everybody was jumping ship because it was boring and meaningless combat. The structure trading was the most rewarding aspect of the game since Champs dropped Champ bags and capturing objectives were the reward. Most zergs avoided each other other than at random choak point encounter.

Definitely not in my tiers or servers, well, not until Tournaments began and everyone jumped ship for first place rewards including Golden Yak finishers.My servers down in the lower tiers were always looking for fights, so much so they would open up a tower then kill all the defenders for hours and refuse to cap.Garrison fights would last hours too.

They had to add over the SPvP reward tracks to get more people in WvW since it was that lacking in reward.

It was all about pinging them stacks of bags you got from killing players on my server and our reward was beating down well known WvW guilds and roamers..

The only thing solo-able are camps to a certain extent, NPC neutral factions and guard land post. Camps like structures deal with RI as well. The Neutral NPCs are weak and useless and not worth the time and investment and land grabs die way too easily and just exchanged for quick WvExp. It's lame. Many people saw this earlier on and left.

Seriously? Can 3-4 man keeps back in those times and still can today with ease and there was a few people that could solo it if left enough time..... Solo a tower too back then and its even easier today due to the population drop and power creep. I used to do it specifically on the borderlands but now I can solo an EB tower.

You and others like you keep throwing around the term PvE. Well the only PvE in WvW that's done on a normal bases is attacking a Gate/Wall or a Structure Lord Champ which also are dull and boring and have no threat or flavor identity to any of them. They just Champ number X.

Then why focus so hard on it if it's boring? I do it to provoke fights but every off week for me is dead during my hours.The game mode became more about PvE since our interaction as a PvP environment was taken away including the sandbox feeling where we got to choose and build our own structural upgrades which ultimately helped create a better community and server pride before that was taken away too. We got meshed together, grouped up in large numbers, stripped of server pride and competitiveness and given the utilities or tools to avoid combat with other players... Sounds an awful lot like PvE to me.

This why I said WvW don't have smaller side objective. If you can't see that, then You are part of the problem, and one of these same people screaming for Balance yet can't even define what that is in terms of WvW.

I understand that WvW is a warzone, it should cater to all players and not just zerging. It's odd that you make another accusation like that when you've presented me such a narrow minded opinion.There's still lots of small scales objectives to do, just not as many. Bloodlust is evidence that even Anet were aware at some stage that all players mattered in the game mode and all play styles were essential.

Bloodlust is a small scale objective, camps, sentries and yaks are just a few examples of small scale objectives so please don't sit there and say WvW doesn't have small scale objectives.

The most powerful weapon of war is information, usually information that only a scout or small group would supply.There's so much more to WvW than you clearly realize.

Roaming is not fun for all people.

Never said it was.

I go to WvW for the large scale PvPvE gameplay.

Good for you, I do too, but I also like to split from the zerg and do my own thing for a while.

And they don't even do that well since as stated above WvW was designed in a way that rewarded structure exchanges rather than large fights."structure exchanges" is a small part of WvW.

Same issue Warhammer Online suffered from. It's not fun.

Never played that, WvW on GW2 was enough but thanks for the new game suggestion.. Does it offer anything unique on the gaming market like WvW?

This why WvW need Meta Events with clear objectives and clear Winners every few hours so factions feel like their actions are actually contributing to a Winning Goal of some kind.

Ah yes, I understand now. Can't just play for fun, have to earn a trophy or an achievement or some sort of self validation for the time spent rather than just enjoying yourself.

If you don't understand that and how developers actions dictate player behavior, we'll I have nothing left to say to you on this, with your "2 people successfully defending keep against a zerg of 40" half truths self.

Maybe it just comes down to experience, broadening the mind a little bit and adventuring outside of the zerg more often.

Goodbye

Thanks for helping me understand where your opinion comes from, nothing else is need to be said past this because we are the 2 different opinions I referenced earlier.

@sephiroth.4217 said:sandbox pvp feeling or the marked and warclaw road

I hope I've answered all of your questions and false accusations to your satisfaction, Goodbye.

Sephiroth speaking truth as always.

[Riba.3271]

People that don't play WvW can't have meaningful opinions about current balance. They can have state their opinion why they quit WvW in the past but that is extent of it, they can't be part of any discussion that considers any events following them quitting such as balance patches, mounts and upgrade changes.

Its like listening to a guy who hasn't played a class once trying to explain how class is supposed to be played. Yes they can repeat opinions of someone else and be correct but often they're basing their opinions on completely wrong information. So either they don't bring anything new to conversation or are just flat-out wrong.

[Iozeph.5617]

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Does the opinion matter of the players that were once hyped up about the concept of WvW but dont like it now?

I asked on the other forum but figured I should ask here as well.

I am curious on where you all stand on this subject.

WvW still has a diehard population that still play and I am not taking away from that,but their desires may be different from others who were once excited about the concept of WvW, but may not like it anymore or play it anymore.

Do their opinions matter in the discussion to improve WvW?

Does this imply that somehow even active player opinions matter to those with any power to change things? Never mind it. The way I see it we won't have long to wait before the importance of anyone's feelings on the matter is rendered moot.

[Obtena.7952]

@Anput.4620 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Calle.8746 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

I disagree heavy. Early WvW was mostly avoiding the zerg and trading Structures just like now. Thats what turned it off. There is no PvE Meta, thats what killed WvW. It has no objectives. Only a score which benefits trading structures and recapping stuff. This why on most servers you dont really see an importance in Defense.

Also if you not in the zerg, you provide little to the team.

how can you disagree facts?

my server never traded structures lol

WvW was fine until the new direction change... refer to server status and how they've drastically dropped since changes.With any luck they might refill with the new blood Anet is catering too but its taking a lot slower than Id like.

There used to be huge emphasis on defending because objectives and upgrades were player controlled and paid for by the player.There was also YB who made a push to T1 through siege and defense.

im sorry to inform you but there used to be a lot more to the game mode than zerg only. You would know this had you truly played since game release. Its mostly zerg only now but never used to be.. WvW used to cater to all classes and playstyles.

My guild was a tactical support roaming squad for instance before merging with a well known roaming guild then becoming zerg busters for lolz. If you chose to zerg only during those times, you missed out on the game modes true potential.

2 people can still defend a keep against 40... me and a friend did it 2 days ago.You can do a lot without a zerg. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps actually.

I would even argue that 2 people could easily achieve more than a bunch of 1 spamming body bags on tag so to flip your script.... its actually uneducated zergers that stack on tag that bring very little to the table, they are simply just another number.

end of the day... Anet will only listen to those who buy gems and apparently thats not us WvW or PvP players. We apparently swim in gold and convert it to gems.

Yes and I am calling you a liar. What sever only has 2 people to defend the keep unless it's 99.9% a dead server, first of all, and no way only 2 person going to be successful at defending a keep against a Zerg. Right there shows you being misleading to form some kind of false narrative.

A liar hey? well that's quite the accusation you have going on there. It was actually quite easy, a little misdirection and they pulled off to defend a keep that wasn't even under attack. There's plenty of little tricks to accomplish such a meager task.

Back at release WvW was major hyped up and many people joined in during the excitement and that excitement faded away big time to the point Arena Net had to do the Server Links because it was that dead. This was before the Auto upgrades the severs were dying. Everybody was jumping ship because it was boring and meaningless combat. The structure trading was the most rewarding aspect of the game since Champs dropped Champ bags and capturing objectives were the reward. Most zergs avoided each other other than at random choak point encounter.

Definitely not in my tiers or servers, well, not until Tournaments began and everyone jumped ship for first place rewards including Golden Yak finishers.My servers down in the lower tiers were always looking for fights, so much so they would open up a tower then kill all the defenders for hours and refuse to cap.Garrison fights would last hours too.

They had to add over the SPvP reward tracks to get more people in WvW since it was that lacking in reward.

It was all about pinging them stacks of bags you got from killing players on my server and our reward was beating down well known WvW guilds and roamers..

The only thing solo-able are camps to a certain extent, NPC neutral factions and guard land post. Camps like structures deal with RI as well. The Neutral NPCs are weak and useless and not worth the time and investment and land grabs die way too easily and just exchanged for quick WvExp. It's lame. Many people saw this earlier on and left.

Seriously? Can 3-4 man keeps back in those times and still can today with ease and there was a few people that could solo it if left enough time..... Solo a tower too back then and its even easier today due to the population drop and power creep. I used to do it specifically on the borderlands but now I can solo an EB tower.

You and others like you keep throwing around the term PvE. Well the only PvE in WvW that's done on a normal bases is attacking a Gate/Wall or a Structure Lord Champ which also are dull and boring and have no threat or flavor identity to any of them. They just Champ number X.

Then why focus so hard on it if it's boring? I do it to provoke fights but every off week for me is dead during my hours.The game mode became more about PvE since our interaction as a PvP environment was taken away including the sandbox feeling where we got to choose and build our own structural upgrades which ultimately helped create a better community and server pride before that was taken away too. We got meshed together, grouped up in large numbers, stripped of server pride and competitiveness and given the utilities or tools to avoid combat with other players... Sounds an awful lot like PvE to me.

This why I said WvW don't have smaller side objective. If you can't see that, then You are part of the problem, and one of these same people screaming for Balance yet can't even define what that is in terms of WvW.

I understand that WvW is a warzone, it should cater to all players and not just zerging. It's odd that you make another accusation like that when you've presented me such a narrow minded opinion.There's still lots of small scales objectives to do, just not as many. Bloodlust is evidence that even Anet were aware at some stage that all players mattered in the game mode and all play styles were essential.

Bloodlust is a small scale objective, camps, sentries and yaks are just a few examples of small scale objectives so please don't sit there and say WvW doesn't have small scale objectives.

The most powerful weapon of war is information, usually information that only a scout or small group would supply.There's so much more to WvW than you clearly realize.

Roaming is not fun for all people.

Never said it was.

I go to WvW for the large scale PvPvE gameplay.

Good for you, I do too, but I also like to split from the zerg and do my own thing for a while.

And they don't even do that well since as stated above WvW was designed in a way that rewarded structure exchanges rather than large fights."structure exchanges" is a small part of WvW.

Same issue Warhammer Online suffered from. It's not fun.

Never played that, WvW on GW2 was enough but thanks for the new game suggestion.. Does it offer anything unique on the gaming market like WvW?

This why WvW need Meta Events with clear objectives and clear Winners every few hours so factions feel like their actions are actually contributing to a Winning Goal of some kind.

Ah yes, I understand now. Can't just play for fun, have to earn a trophy or an achievement or some sort of self validation for the time spent rather than just enjoying yourself.

If you don't understand that and how developers actions dictate player behavior, we'll I have nothing left to say to you on this, with your "2 people successfully defending keep against a zerg of 40" half truths self.

Maybe it just comes down to experience, broadening the mind a little bit and adventuring outside of the zerg more often.

Goodbye

Thanks for helping me understand where your opinion comes from, nothing else is need to be said past this because we are the 2 different opinions I referenced earlier.

@sephiroth.4217 said:sandbox pvp feeling or the marked and warclaw road

I hope I've answered all of your questions and false accusations to your satisfaction, Goodbye.

Sephiroth speaking truth as always.

You still think truth has something to do with how this game works ay? You can't pay staff with truth.

At least Sephiroth has figured out how to play with Warclaw to his advantage. That's what it's there for.

[Sovereign.1093]

constructive opinions matter

[Optimator.3589]

I still actively play, but as I become more and more disillusioned, I play less and make snarky comments more. Nature of the beast.

The players who are still enthusiastic about WvW are busy playing and not posting here.

Opinions are like arses. Everybody's got one and they all stink. None of them is more important than any other.

[Anput.4620]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Calle.8746 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:The game mode changed from open world sandbox PvP to a PvE map that allows playing killing.

I bought this game on the day of release and played for about 2-3 years straight focusing mainly on WvW. I must have missed something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I've missed something.

I returned to the game about 9-10 month ago and I do not see any significant changes to WvW that would lead me to say it has gone from PvP to PvE.

Only differences I've seen so far is the Mastery points (wich was added before I quit if I'm not misstaken), the warclaw, the reward system and some proffession changes.

What is it that I've missed that all the "older players" talk about? What are all the drastic changes that turned WvW from a PvP sandbox to a PvE map?

p.s. asking for a friend.

We used to be in control of the entire map including structural upgrades for starters. Now it all runs on Autopilot.

Theres also loot... we never used to have loot unless you killed other players for it... now you get loot for being afk and reward tracks and so forth.

Everything about WvW used to promote open world pvp and all playstyles including roamers, "gankers", duels, gvg, zergs and so on.... now the mode promotes stacking on a lord or NPC. Just run from tower to tower watching timers like a META event.

WvW used to be a grueling place where you would die several times an hour... Due to some changes and power creep like 10k extra health amd immunity to CC, a tier 2 fractal offers more dangers than "open world pvp" especially for an experienced player...

as mentioned with the power creep. Players dont actually have to fight anymore in this open world pvp setting... theres indemnity granted from pvp, the very basis of the mode.

players like me are using high burst builds to deal with power creep... need something bursty enough to wreck a mount fast enough... which means my build also instagibs the rider... theres no fight in that.

So what do we have? Essentially a PvE META map that allows player killing.

I disagree heavy. Early WvW was mostly avoiding the zerg and trading Structures just like now. Thats what turned it off. There is no PvE Meta, thats what killed WvW. It has no objectives. Only a score which benefits trading structures and recapping stuff. This why on most servers you dont really see an importance in Defense.

Also if you not in the zerg, you provide little to the team.

how can you disagree facts?

my server never traded structures lol

WvW was fine until the new direction change... refer to server status and how they've drastically dropped since changes.With any luck they might refill with the new blood Anet is catering too but its taking a lot slower than Id like.

There used to be huge emphasis on defending because objectives and upgrades were player controlled and paid for by the player.There was also YB who made a push to T1 through siege and defense.

im sorry to inform you but there used to be a lot more to the game mode than zerg only. You would know this had you truly played since game release. Its mostly zerg only now but never used to be.. WvW used to cater to all classes and playstyles.

My guild was a tactical support roaming squad for instance before merging with a well known roaming guild then becoming zerg busters for lolz. If you chose to zerg only during those times, you missed out on the game modes true potential.

2 people can still defend a keep against 40... me and a friend did it 2 days ago.You can do a lot without a zerg. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps actually.

I would even argue that 2 people could easily achieve more than a bunch of 1 spamming body bags on tag so to flip your script.... its actually uneducated zergers that stack on tag that bring very little to the table, they are simply just another number.

end of the day... Anet will only listen to those who buy gems and apparently thats not us WvW or PvP players. We apparently swim in gold and convert it to gems.

Yes and I am calling you a liar. What sever only has 2 people to defend the keep unless it's 99.9% a dead server, first of all, and no way only 2 person going to be successful at defending a keep against a Zerg. Right there shows you being misleading to form some kind of false narrative.

A liar hey? well that's quite the accusation you have going on there. It was actually quite easy, a little misdirection and they pulled off to defend a keep that wasn't even under attack. There's plenty of little tricks to accomplish such a meager task.

Back at release WvW was major hyped up and many people joined in during the excitement and that excitement faded away big time to the point Arena Net had to do the Server Links because it was that dead. This was before the Auto upgrades the severs were dying. Everybody was jumping ship because it was boring and meaningless combat. The structure trading was the most rewarding aspect of the game since Champs dropped Champ bags and capturing objectives were the reward. Most zergs avoided each other other than at random choak point encounter.

Definitely not in my tiers or servers, well, not until Tournaments began and everyone jumped ship for first place rewards including Golden Yak finishers.My servers down in the lower tiers were always looking for fights, so much so they would open up a tower then kill all the defenders for hours and refuse to cap.Garrison fights would last hours too.

They had to add over the SPvP reward tracks to get more people in WvW since it was that lacking in reward.

It was all about pinging them stacks of bags you got from killing players on my server and our reward was beating down well known WvW guilds and roamers..

The only thing solo-able are camps to a certain extent, NPC neutral factions and guard land post. Camps like structures deal with RI as well. The Neutral NPCs are weak and useless and not worth the time and investment and land grabs die way too easily and just exchanged for quick WvExp. It's lame. Many people saw this earlier on and left.

Seriously? Can 3-4 man keeps back in those times and still can today with ease and there was a few people that could solo it if left enough time..... Solo a tower too back then and its even easier today due to the population drop and power creep. I used to do it specifically on the borderlands but now I can solo an EB tower.

You and others like you keep throwing around the term PvE. Well the only PvE in WvW that's done on a normal bases is attacking a Gate/Wall or a Structure Lord Champ which also are dull and boring and have no threat or flavor identity to any of them. They just Champ number X.

Then why focus so hard on it if it's boring? I do it to provoke fights but every off week for me is dead during my hours.The game mode became more about PvE since our interaction as a PvP environment was taken away including the sandbox feeling where we got to choose and build our own structural upgrades which ultimately helped create a better community and server pride before that was taken away too. We got meshed together, grouped up in large numbers, stripped of server pride and competitiveness and given the utilities or tools to avoid combat with other players... Sounds an awful lot like PvE to me.

This why I said WvW don't have smaller side objective. If you can't see that, then You are part of the problem, and one of these same people screaming for Balance yet can't even define what that is in terms of WvW.

I understand that WvW is a warzone, it should cater to all players and not just zerging. It's odd that you make another accusation like that when you've presented me such a narrow minded opinion.There's still lots of small scales objectives to do, just not as many. Bloodlust is evidence that even Anet were aware at some stage that all players mattered in the game mode and all play styles were essential.

Bloodlust is a small scale objective, camps, sentries and yaks are just a few examples of small scale objectives so please don't sit there and say WvW doesn't have small scale objectives.

The most powerful weapon of war is information, usually information that only a scout or small group would supply.There's so much more to WvW than you clearly realize.

Roaming is not fun for all people.

Never said it was.

I go to WvW for the large scale PvPvE gameplay.

Good for you, I do too, but I also like to split from the zerg and do my own thing for a while.

And they don't even do that well since as stated above WvW was designed in a way that rewarded structure exchanges rather than large fights."structure exchanges" is a small part of WvW.

Same issue Warhammer Online suffered from. It's not fun.

Never played that, WvW on GW2 was enough but thanks for the new game suggestion.. Does it offer anything unique on the gaming market like WvW?

This why WvW need Meta Events with clear objectives and clear Winners every few hours so factions feel like their actions are actually contributing to a Winning Goal of some kind.

Ah yes, I understand now. Can't just play for fun, have to earn a trophy or an achievement or some sort of self validation for the time spent rather than just enjoying yourself.

If you don't understand that and how developers actions dictate player behavior, we'll I have nothing left to say to you on this, with your "2 people successfully defending keep against a zerg of 40" half truths self.

Maybe it just comes down to experience, broadening the mind a little bit and adventuring outside of the zerg more often.

Goodbye

Thanks for helping me understand where your opinion comes from, nothing else is need to be said past this because we are the 2 different opinions I referenced earlier.

@sephiroth.4217 said:sandbox pvp feeling or the marked and warclaw road

I hope I've answered all of your questions and false accusations to your satisfaction, Goodbye.

Sephiroth speaking truth as always.

You still think truth has something to do with how this game works ay? You can't pay staff with truth.

At least Sephiroth has figured out how to play with Warclaw to his advantage. That's what it's there for.

It is how good PvP games work lol.

When was the last time i said this game was good?

[Obtena.7952]

@Anput.4620 said:It is how good PvP games work lol.

When was the last time i said this game was good?

It doesn't matter if you think the PVP is good or not. GW2 isn't an academic exercise in making the best PVP game ever according to your idea of what that is.