tempest nerf

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

I really don't think I've ever needed to overload attunements to gain swiftness on support ele. If I need even more swiftness for the group I can place a static 900 range ahead of tag and triple blast it for over a minute of swiftness lol

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Windborne_Speedhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cyclone

this is not 2k14 anymore. In the current game state .. You cannot ask your party/squad to blast a ligthing field to gain swiftness while one skill (mostly instant cast or quick cast) can apply easily 15-20 sec of it. Plus (as an ele) you're wasting a crucial hard CC with a pretty heavy CD just for such an accessible boon that is swiftness.

I can understand the pain on swiftness for tempest while they have to catch up to be honest. But depends on the tag I guess.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

I really don't think I've ever needed to overload attunements to gain swiftness on support ele. If I need even more swiftness for the group I can place a static 900 range ahead of tag and triple blast it for over a minute of swiftness lol

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Windborne_Speed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cyclone

this is not 2k14 anymore. In the current game state .. You cannot ask your party/squad to blast a ligthing field to gain swiftness while one skill (mostly instant cast or quick cast) can apply easily 15-20 sec of it. Plus (as an ele) you're wasting a crucial hard CC with a pretty heavy CD just for such an accessible boon that is swiftness.

I can understand the pain on swiftness for tempest while they have to catch up to be honest. But depends on the tag I guess.

I rarely have an issue with swiftness anyway, from a wvw pov you have Heralds,Guards and Scrappers pushing that boon out so it isnt going to hurt that much, you get some more concentration in return so its not that bad

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@steki.1478 said:You have it in arcane as well as weapon skills. Having swiftness on a minor trait is pretty stupid when you compare it to minor traits of other classes and their elite specs.

Concentration isn't amazing either, but it has far better use than personal swiftness on a support spec.

What are you even talking about?The swiftness on minor was important because it would allow you to chase targets while overloading if not people will just walk away from it! And you're suggesting people to run arcane for swiftness while you ignore that 1) you need to be attuned to air and 2) it takes 5s to tuning for a single element...and 3)claiming that swiftness from arcane can be combined with overload animation....I don't even know....

How are people running away from them when you're supporting them snd giving them boons? Not every build has access to swiftness and they depend on supports providing them boons.

1) What's problem with attuning to air? It gives you CC and you can still support with utilities.

2) and 3) don't even make sense.

You dont get that build in you must trait for it. The problem is not so much the swiftness is that its only 1 stack of stab and that it the swiftness boon is stronger then the 1 stack of stab. Its the lost of the 10% dmg effect a real reward for doing a full overload now its just an aura and the overload effect it self.

Did you forget the permanent 7% dmg buff on new GM trait?

If you run it but you lose out on aura healing and that is massive to the tempests support class as well as its buriser call. At least before you could get some dmg on tempest with out giving up your best healing support you could run on ele over all. 7% dmg is not GM level any way it needs to be 7% for your full group.

You won't run in in healing build... Aura heal was irrelevant in dps builds to begin with because you don't have many auras and the healing is personal and nonexistent.

No, before you couldn't get dpa because your main supporting skills do no damage and your main support traits didn't include % damage buff.

I always knew that you didn't know how to make a good build, but you start to make no sense whatsoever.

So the point of the tempest class was to specializations into support by taking away a means of that support is not good for the class or the game over all. Right now we have many "op" classes who are support aimed because of what anet keeps letting these classes get away with in things out side of support causing massive number leaving the game. The only thing this update is going to do is push tempest ability to dmg when its doing sub par support to start with. The class it self dose not have a strong enofe support set of tools to complete with FB and scraper and its going to get worst after this update.

By making the "dps" traits because tempest will only have one as a GM it cuts off any chose of filling that in-between roll that it could do in small man groups. Maybe if they put some type of real dmg trait at all trait levels you would have a point but tempest only gets one out of all 9 chose it has. The faster cd (effectively having Alacrity for overloads set up only) is nice but it should simply be part of the tempest class the 7% out going dmg is meaningless over all as your not able to realty build the tempest line as true dps. If that what you seem to want the tempest class for.

[LazySummer.2568]

All these people thinking extra bit a concentration is a buff because you can blast swiftness and do some other workarounds by taking certain skills/traits have no idea how much utility that swiftness on overload offers. Extra concentration is pointless for a support that only offer basic boons and can already maintain these boons at a good duration currently in fights unless it's pve, in which case support tempest is still a meme compared to broken specs like firebrand/renegade or even chrono/druid.

It's k, tempest can stay irrelevant because that's how anet balance team will always want it to be. The new warrior, on the other hand, is looking great for people that actually want to play as a good support.

[Jski.6180]

@LazySummer.2568 said:All these people thinking extra bit a concentration is a buff because you can blast swiftness and do some other workarounds by taking certain skills/traits have no idea how much utility that swiftness on overload offers. Extra concentration is pointless for a support that only offer basic boons and can already maintain these boons at a good duration currently in fights unless it's pve, in which case support tempest is still a meme compared to broken specs like firebrand/renegade or even chrono/druid.

It's k, tempest can stay irrelevant because that's how anet balance team will always want it to be. The new warrior, on the other hand, is looking great for people that actually want to play as a good support.

If they intend to make it a chosen trait it realty should be super speed not swiftness I think that would of been a better chose from anet.

[Abelisk.5148]

Sees swiftness on overloads is merged with stabilityMe: :open_mouth:But it's not a minor traitMe: :disappointed:

[supreme.3602]

They really butchered roaming tempest for me, now. Thanks, ArenaNet.

It would've been nice if the stability trait was a minor and if they had introduced the new trait in the master column instead, but alas, brain cells among the Elementalist developers are a rarity and these people would rather see our favourite class get nerfed to oblivion than to give it the changes it needs.

[Emberheart.8426]

@"Dahir.4158" said:They really butchered roaming tempest for me, now. Thanks, ArenaNet.

It would've been nice if the stability trait was a minor and if they had introduced the new trait in the master column instead, but alas, brain cells among the Elementalist developers are a rarity and these people would rather see our favourite class get nerfed to oblivion than to give it the changes it needs.

Or they could have just made the swiftness baseline on the overloads themselves. The entire complaint about the trait is that it didn't feel like a minor trait, because the swiftness could have easily been one of the many baseline overload features. It basically felt like they removed the swiftness from baseline overloads to give it to a minor trait and avoid making a real minor trait. Instead of having swiftness, harmonious conduit should be way more stability oriented, because tempest only has the most common boons in the game and FB has a monopoly on stability. But Anet never want to make the obvious changes that would easily improve the game in the most straightforward way possible.

[supreme.3602]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:They really butchered roaming tempest for me, now. Thanks, ArenaNet.

It would've been nice if the stability trait was a minor and if they had introduced the new trait in the master column instead, but alas, brain cells among the Elementalist developers are a rarity and these people would rather see our favourite class get nerfed to oblivion than to give it the changes it needs.

Or they could have just made the swiftness baseline on the overloads themselves. The entire complaint about the trait is that it didn't feel like a minor trait, because the swiftness could have easily been one of the many baseline overload features. It basically felt like they removed the swiftness from baseline overloads to give it to a minor trait and avoid making a real minor trait. Instead of having swiftness, harmonious conduit should be way more stability oriented, because tempest only has the most common boons in the game and FB has a monopoly on stability. But Anet never want to make the obvious changes that would easily improve the game in the most straightforward way possible.

Baseline swiftness on overload? You expect too much of them, my friend. But yes, that should've been the idea from the start.

[len.7809]

Transcendent Tempest gives you 7% damage increase for 7 seconds. Instead of need to wait 6 seconds till overload, its now 4.5s. not exactly 33% reduction but okay..

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

@len.7809 said:Transcendent Tempest gives you 7% damage increase for 7 seconds. Instead of need to wait 6 seconds till overload, its now 4.5s. not exactly 33% reduction but okay..

Nice I was thinking I was wrong with that time reduction ! but you noticed just such as me.It conforts me (I feel less stupid)

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Okay I was just able to test/review the changes with my Heal Tempest again WTF .

Better I sum it up systematically:

1.) For the S/w raid Tempest this is a tiny buff

2.) For wvw dps Staff Tempest that I need to choose at the last row top for dps this is already a nerf (because I need middle I'm glass canon I need the mobility)

3.) For Heal Tempest the things in point 2 from me aren't important but what they did to the 2 row/middle row . I didn't noticed at first that the deleted the 10 aura sharing and replaced it with shouts.(the aura thing always shared only with 6 people so far I know= buggy) While I would prefer auras or at best both the point is I don't have my own stabi any more when I do this. I don't have problems with no swiftness which is in the same point. A Tempest without own stabi is useless in pvp/wvw.

There were countless threads in which Arena.NET was asked to improve the stabi generation because players could easily interrupt the the overload and not only players also the champions/bosses done this frequently ...

EDIT: A rough solution for the worst would be adding to the last minor trait stabi and swiftness and change Harmonious Conduit so that stabi and swiftness are always shared while doing an overload and add to Tempestuous Aria auras again.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@"len.7809" said:Transcendent Tempest gives you 7% damage increase for 7 seconds. Instead of need to wait 6 seconds till overload, its now 4.5s. not exactly 33% reduction but okay..

I done the maths too it needs to be 3.35s for 33%. This was a suggestion from the board I was against it because it would overlap with fresh air when which would be on contrary to all the nerfs they have done on air overload https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overload_Air . Seems someone noticed it last minute from the devs ( while I already said it under the idea on the board so when it came up).

My idea was change some single target skill on staff or reduce for core ele and Tempest the time for the attunements around 33% and leave weaver like it was.

new:I can also add today the amount of precision which ele have which was nerfed at some point weaver got a modifier to compensate for it while all other ele needs assassine gear and a sigil and the sigil of fire.

[God.2708]

I have lost a lot of faith in the GW2 forums having any idea on how to play elementalist today. I don't even know where to begin.

This was all a huge buff. You are wrong. If you do not have swiftness on your elementalist, you should pick up another class and not comment on elementalist's balance again.

[Spook.5847]

I think what people are pissed about was that the change itself was dumb. 180 concentration? big deal. Swiftness? big deal. None of it even mattered but anet choose the route that just gimps tempest. They could have just easily added the concentration to the swiftness buff, and then keep the damage modifier on Harm conduit, then maybe it could have legitimately made DPS tempest an actual thing instead of a huge meme without gimping every other spec in the process.

It was just a dumb and pointless design decision because whoever designed ele balance this patch had no man packs. Look at warrior tactic rework. Probably the best balance update of all time... whoever made those balance changes def has some balls and isn't afraid to shake things up, because they can ALWAYS nerf things later if it's too strong. DPS Tempest probably won't even get a chance to see play, because the buffs to it were so weaksauce in comparison.

Pretty much same complaint with them jostling and messing around with necro and other classes. Honestly, it's like people just trying to look busy. Tis is the kind of farking crud I quit WoW over. Just leave stuff alone, quit nerfing everything from candy corn gobblers to minor traitlines and do something constructive like build content - or even just sweep the floors!

[LazySummer.2568]

@God.2708 said:I have lost a lot of faith in the GW2 forums having any idea on how to play elementalist today. I don't even know where to begin.

This was all a huge buff. You are wrong. If you do not have swiftness on your elementalist, you should pick up another class and not comment on elementalist's balance again.

Top streamers such as Vallun and MightTeapot (or pretty much any good players that can comprehend how good the trait was) both said that losing the swiftness on overload is a hit, so you're wrong.

It's not about not having swiftness, it's about having it without needing to sacrifice any of your skill/trait/weapon/rune slots and being able to get it at any time in basically any situation (because you don't have to be in a specific attunement and it doesnt require you to blast fields, which is obviously not something you can easily do if you're currently engaged in combat).

At most it's either a slight buff or nerf instead of the huge buff you're suggesting.

Do me a favor and don't comment in any threads if all you're going to do is write useless comments that have 0 arguments and only personal attacks and exaggeration.

[steki.1478]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:Okay I was just able to test/review the changes with my Heal Tempest again kitten .

Better I sum it up systematically:

1.) For the S/w raid Tempest this is a tiny buff

2.) For wvw dps Staff Tempest that I need to choose at the last row top for dps this is already a nerf (because I need middle I'm glass canon I need the mobility)

How is it a nerf when you're getting swiftness from heralds anyway? Why would you play dps tempest to begin with when both core and weaver have better damage and class mechanic, core ele can provide much better utility through arcane immobs and weaver has better defensive capabilities?

3.) For Heal Tempest the things in point 2 from me aren't important but what they did to the 2 row/middle row . I didn't noticed at first that the deleted the 10 aura sharing and replaced it with shouts.(the aura thing always shared only with 6 people so far I know= buggy) While I would prefer auras or at best both the point is I don't have my own stabi any more when I do this. I don't have problems with no swiftness which is in the same point. A Tempest without own stabi is useless in pvp/wvw.

The trait was never about 10 man auras, it was always 10 man shouts. Nothing got deleted there.

[God.2708]

@LazySummer.2568 said:Top streamers such as Vallun and MightTeapot (or pretty much any good players that can comprehend how good the trait was) both said that losing the swiftness on overload is a hit, so you're wrong.

It's not about not having swiftness, it's about having it without needing to sacrifice any of your skill/trait/weapon/rune slots and being able to get it at any time in basically any situation (because you don't have to be in a specific attunement and it doesnt require you to blast fields, which is obviously not something you can easily do if you're currently engaged in combat).

At most it's either a slight buff or nerf instead of the huge buff you're suggesting.

Do me a favor and don't comment in any threads if all you're going to do is write useless comments that have 0 arguments and only personal attacks and exaggeration.

Please do share where they said this in their streams. I'll set aside that Vallun is primarily a thief player and teapot is primarily a necro player and take your argument to authority.

The only, singular instance, which I can think of where you would need this is if you are a D/F auramancer support in PvP and for some unknown reason you opt to take one of the other two traits over harmonious conduit because you enjoy having your overloads interrupted. But I am open to hearing otherwise. The suggestions seen thus far in the topic have done little to persuade me of anything other than fear that they might one day end up in my group.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:Okay I was just able to test/review the changes with my Heal Tempest again kitten .

Better I sum it up systematically:

1.) For the S/w raid Tempest this is a tiny buff

2.) For wvw dps Staff Tempest that I need to choose at the last row top for dps this is already a nerf (because I need middle I'm glass canon I need the mobility)

How is it a nerf when you're getting swiftness from heralds anyway? Why would you play dps tempest to begin with when both core and weaver have better damage and class mechanic, core ele can provide much better utility through arcane immobs and weaver has better defensive capabilities?

3.) For Heal Tempest the things in point 2 from me aren't important but what they did to the 2 row/middle row . I didn't noticed at first that the deleted the 10 aura sharing and replaced it with shouts.(the aura thing always shared only with 6 people so far I know= buggy) While I would prefer auras or at best both the point is I don't have my own stabi any more when I do this. I don't have problems with no swiftness which is in the same point. A Tempest without own stabi is useless in pvp/wvw.

The trait was never about 10 man auras, it was always 10 man shouts. Nothing got deleted there.

1.) it about stabi and not about swiftness and having a herold can be and can be not same goes the moment an FB gives stabi but this is true only for wvw not for PvP and even then ..2.) The skill change and so the localization before that in my version there were standing aura

[steki.1478]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:1.) it about stabi and not about swiftness and having a herold can be and can be not same goes the moment an FB gives stabi but this is true only for wvw not for PvP and even then ..2.) The skill change and so the localization before that in my version there were standing aura

1. You can still take the stability trait, nothing changed on that part.
2. The traits are still the same, again, nothing changed there.

Your comments make 0 sense and you havent answered any of my questions. All I see are meaningless comments.

[snowshow.5469]

One solution could have been to combine just enough quickness to cast a full overload with the stability.Another ? add 33%(or 25% if I'm being too greedy) movement speed while overloading (it might still removes the need for swiftness with stab though)

Not having swiftness by default on overload is, for me, a huge hit.You're slow, very slow.

If you want to move that tiny bit faster you have to choose one or more of these:

• go arcane and dip your toe in air attunement that's quality rotation.
• go air trait, congratulations you can choose a whooping "1" trait for your build !
• use a utility skill, should I use my heal glyph, aftershock or air signet(no swiftness on this one) ?
• use an air weapon skill and guess what, you have only staff, dagger(off), warhorn to give you swiftness on some nice cooldowns too. Enjoy...
• get it from other players, I am playing an mmo(?) fair point I guess...
• use runes/sigils...
• Bonus: use a movement skill (ie: staff fire 4, dagger: fire 3, air 4 , earth 3...)

Looks like a lot right ? Until you understand that you're having to put in that much effort for one single life changing boon.As an ele, being able to move just a little bit faster can mean life or death and now, as a tempest, you're just dead.

Let's not forget the fact that overloads also serve as stunbreaks making movement speed that much more crucial if used as such.(please don't see this as an invitation to remove the stunbreak feature)

Anyways, hope this helps.

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:1.) it about stabi and not about swiftness and having a herold can be and can be not same goes the moment an FB gives stabi but this is true only for wvw not for PvP and even then ..2.) The skill change and so the localization before that in my version there were standing aura

1. You can still take the stability trait, nothing changed on that part.
2. The traits are still the same, again, nothing changed there.

Your comments make 0 sense and you havent answered any of my questions. All I see are meaningless comments.

Most ppl did not take the stab trait for the stab it was for the dmg that came with it OR they simply could not get use out of the other 2 (if not not going aura the reg and vigor dose not help much on aura and if your only fighting / supporting groups of 5 targets the shout one is pointless). Going from added dmg to swiftness is a nerf a hard nerf but the swiftness is still stronger then the 1 stack of stab.

[God.2708]

@"snowshow.5469" said:One solution could have been to combine just enough quickness to cast a full overload with the stability.Another ? add 33%(or 25% if I'm being too greedy) movement speed while overloading (it might still removes the need for swiftness with stab though)

Not having swiftness by default on overload is, for me, a huge hit.You're slow, very slow.

If you want to move that tiny bit faster you have to choose one or more of these:

• go arcane and dip your toe in air attunement that's quality rotation.
• go air trait, congratulations you can choose a whooping "1" trait for your build !
• use a utility skill, should I use my heal glyph, aftershock or air signet(no swiftness on this one) ?
• use an air weapon skill and guess what, you have only staff, dagger(off), warhorn to give you swiftness on some nice cooldowns too. Enjoy...
• get it from other players, I am playing an mmo(?) fair point I guess...
• use runes/sigils...
• Bonus: use a movement skill (ie: staff fire 4, dagger: fire 3, air 4 , earth 3...)

Looks like a lot right ? Until you understand that you're having to put in that much effort for one single life changing boon.As an ele, being able to move just a little bit faster can mean life or death and now, as a tempest, you're just dead.

Let's not forget the fact that overloads also serve as stunbreaks making movement speed that much more crucial if used as such.(please don't see this as an invitation to remove the stunbreak feature)

Anyways, hope this helps.

No, what helps is what build are you running in what context. I complete Living Story, I casually raid, I WvW at all scales, I top 250 PvP, 3000+ hours on my elementalist. Never once have I run a build where I have thought to myself 'Damn I'm sure glad this overload had swiftness attached now I'm going to survive'. I am either running arcane or air, and constantly weaving air into my rotation because its a tempests primary kitten damage attunement, or I'm a support tempest that is drowning in so much swiftness that I could go make a hot pocket that's hot in the middle and come back and still be full of go fast.

Let me repeat: If you are struggling with swiftness on your elementalist build, the swiftness on overload minor trait did nothing but handicap you because your build is bad. Cease commenting on elementalist balance and make a topic asking how to improve instead.

[LazySummer.2568]

@God.2708 said:

@"LazySummer.2568" said:Top streamers such as Vallun and MightTeapot (or pretty much any good players that can comprehend how good the trait was) both said that losing the swiftness on overload is a hit, so you're wrong.

It's not about not having swiftness, it's about having it without needing to sacrifice any of your skill/trait/weapon/rune slots and being able to get it at any time in basically any situation (because you don't have to be in a specific attunement and it doesnt require you to blast fields, which is obviously not something you can easily do if you're currently engaged in combat).

At most it's either a slight buff or nerf instead of the huge buff you're suggesting.

Do me a favor and don't comment in any threads if all you're going to do is write useless comments that have 0 arguments and only personal attacks and exaggeration.

Please do share where they said this in their streams. I'll set aside that Vallun is primarily a thief player and teapot is primarily a necro player and take your argument to authority.

The only, singular instance, which I can think of where you would need this is if you are a D/F auramancer support in PvP and for some unknown reason you opt to take one of the other two traits over harmonious conduit because you enjoy having your overloads interrupted. But I am open to hearing otherwise. The suggestions seen thus far in the topic have done little to persuade me of anything other than fear that they might one day end up in my group.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/489242698?t=00h33m12shttps://www.twitch.tv/videos/488832121?t=01h35m34s

Both streamers play all 3 game modes and multiclasses, and I've also stated my own reasons other than simply appealing to authority.

Harmonious conduit is literally the most useless trait of the 3 in the master line (middle line) even before the patch because if you choose it, your support powers drop significantly (due to the main strengths of the spec being to clear condis, heal, and give boons/auras to allies). Even in pvp, there's very little value you gain from getting only 1 stack of stab compared to the cleanse and the healing you lose out, and really, only earth and water overloads are useful. Earth overload already grants stab, while water overload is good whether you get to complete the cast or not (of course completing it is better but most of the time you just dont get to do it). For Fire & Air overloads, often times you just cast them for the swiftness, prot, and sometimes stunbreak and instantly switch attunement to get more useful weapon skills off cd while charging the next overload. The main strength of support tempest doesn't even come from overloads most of the time, it's from all the utilities skills (including Wash the pain away & rebound), auras, and weapon skills. The only use for that trait is for pve dps tempest because they obviously don't offer much support and would rather get extra damage from completing overloads, and honestly the trait is so bad now I don't even see a use for that trait anywhere but that's besides the point.

You're free to disagree, and honestly I just see this issue as 2 camps of people with opinions and it probably depends on which game mode they play. I just personally consider it as a overall (slight) nerf and wasn't happy because any type of nerf to tempest is totally uncalled for when you compare tempest to other broken specs, but yet balance team keep doing the same shit.

[snowshow.5469]

@God.2708 said:... I am either running arcane or air, and constantly weaving air into my rotation because its a tempests primary kitten damage attunement, or I'm a support tempest that is drowning in so much swiftness ...

• Funny how that's what I listed. Sad you repeated it without noticing
• Playing with others can still mean having low to non existant external sources of swiftness

@God.2708 said:No, what helps is what build are you running in what context ......Cease commenting on elementalist balance and make a topic asking how to improve instead.

• I made this post for that reason. It's not "asking" how to improve, sure, BUT it tries to show how limiting it can be
• Glad you pointed out "context", I never said what I'm using and where (nevermind my or other people's reasons)

@God.2708 said:... Let me repeat: If you are struggling with swiftness on your elementalist build, the swiftness on overload minor trait did nothing but handicap you because your build is bad. ...

• It might very well be that it is/was a handicap, the point still stands that movement speed/placement is a crucial part of the game. As for the bad builds part, it was to be expected, congratulations. By the way, why didn't you finish with "l2p, go meta or play something else" ?

Hope this helps™