Warrior's Cunning

[RedShark.9548]

@Exzen.2976 said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"Lighter.5631" said:people got no logicarms gives 33% crit damage 10% overall damage and 100% crit chance on burst and proc unblockable and it's only used in gimmickhow is 5% only on barrier 25% on 90% hp above and 7% damage will be better lol, if you taking tactic for damage, you are doing it wrong.i only see it been nerfed for one shot build with glass like they nerfed arcing slice, but that's never meta for warrior and will never be. if you can't one shot a scrapper you may as well be dead.

btw don't argue with this lan dude, none of his argument make sense, he's just giving assumptions with no experience and only say "get good" to any argument he can't comprehend.

Hey mate, this thread is about why Anet would give out a 50% damage increase in the first place. The noob Weaver was just preemptively QQing over not being able to use his Dual Attacks as much as he would like. Go find a bridge to lurk under.

[Lighter.5631]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Lighter.5631" said:people got no logicarms gives 33% crit damage 10% overall damage and 100% crit chance on burst and proc unblockable and it's only used in gimmickhow is 5% only on barrier 25% on 90% hp above and 7% damage will be better lol, if you taking tactic for damage, you are doing it wrong.i only see it been nerfed for one shot build with glass like they nerfed arcing slice, but that's never meta for warrior and will never be. if you can't one shot a scrapper you may as well be dead.

btw don't argue with this lan dude, none of his argument make sense, he's just giving assumptions with no experience and only say "get good" to any argument he can't comprehend.

Hey mate, this thread is about why Anet would give out a 50% damage increase in the first place. The noob Weaver was just preemptively QQing over not being able to use his Dual Attacks as much as he would like. Go find a bridge to lurk under.

have you ever touched weaver?

yea, farther proves how you just comment "get good" to any thing u don't understand. you are the one who should go find a bridge,and in my post i specifically explained how 50% on barrier is not even close to arms damage, don't even know why u started this discussion and even is, it's just gimmick and will never be threat to anything meta.

gotta love the guy who disagreed with every experienced warrior when berserker changes released, be like "berserker isnt trash" now see where berserker is, easiest counterable gimmick one shot garbage in PvP. stop showering people with your un thoughful topics and actually play the game, you will get better at understanding the game

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Exzen.2976 said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

So you don't see any use for this in a Zerg even?

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Exzen.2976" said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

So you don't see any use for this in a Zerg even?

for tactics, yes, not for warriors cunning.im definately not a fan of "dmg warriors" in zergs, since they cant even do stuff while casting winds of disenchantment, and enemies are dropping anyways.ranged dmg is alot more reliable.a shoutwarri for example is can still atleast use his shouts.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Exzen.2976" said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

So you don't see any use for this in a Zerg even?

for tactics, yes, not for warriors cunning.im definately not a fan of "dmg warriors" in zergs, since they cant even do stuff while casting winds of disenchantment, and enemies are dropping anyways.ranged dmg is alot more reliable.a shoutwarri for example is can still atleast use his shouts.

I get you, to each there own. We all have our preferences. I know that I've wanted warrior support for a long time.

A rifle Tactics Zerker though would be reliable range damage, and can still use shouts while Gunflaming the Scourges.

[Exzen.2976]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Exzen.2976 said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

Ha, yeah I don’t expect much intelligence from players. As above with the guy who has never touched Weaver giving out the most hilariously bad advice!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Exzen.2976 said:

You know, you could not overextend yourself in the new meta like a noob. Meta changes, change with it or risk getting stomped. I'll leave the most relevant reply you've received from your QQing here below:

@"cryorion.9532" said:"Oh no, I can't play against certain build the same way as against everyone else! I have to adapt now?! Adjust my build?!?! Hell no!"

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Exzen.2976" said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

So you don't see any use for this in a Zerg even?

for tactics, yes, not for warriors cunning.im definately not a fan of "dmg warriors" in zergs, since they cant even do stuff while casting winds of disenchantment, and enemies are dropping anyways.ranged dmg is alot more reliable.a shoutwarri for example is can still atleast use his shouts.

I get you, to each there own. We all have our preferences. I know that I've wanted warrior support for a long time.

A rifle Tactics Zerker though would be reliable range damage, and can still use shouts while Gunflaming the Scourges.

Meh, the low unblockable uptimes and all of the rifle skills being projectiles makes it unreliable imo

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Exzen.2976" said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

So you don't see any use for this in a Zerg even?

for tactics, yes, not for warriors cunning.im definately not a fan of "dmg warriors" in zergs, since they cant even do stuff while casting winds of disenchantment, and enemies are dropping anyways.ranged dmg is alot more reliable.a shoutwarri for example is can still atleast use his shouts.

I get you, to each there own. We all have our preferences. I know that I've wanted warrior support for a long time.

A rifle Tactics Zerker though would be reliable range damage, and can still use shouts while Gunflaming the Scourges.

Meh, the low unblockable uptimes and all of the rifle skills being projectiles makes it unreliable imo

Like I said to each their own.

[thehipone.6812]

It's anet giving players a tool to try to deal with barrier. I think the calculation and conclusion was that barrier was overperforming a bit in WvW. We'll see how it shakes out - if there's ton's of +50% to barrier wars around then it naturally incentivizes other healing/support/mitigation until the warrior's cunning crowd thins out, at which point barrier is ok again, repeat until the dust settles. It's just giving the players "paper" to be able to deal with barrier "rock" matchup.

[DKRathalos.9625]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I get you, to each there own. We all have our preferences. I know that I've wanted warrior support for a long time.

A rifle Tactics Zerker though would be reliable range damage, and can still use shouts while Gunflaming the Scourges.

And I am here to give some report... I am not sure report is the correct word but here is the experienceSo I swap the Defense out for Tactic Disc Spellbreaker, from what I see aside from the increased damage (because of the trait) and I can apply more immobilize to screw people, but this build is really for if you have coordinated group/zerg to cover the sustain, if they can cover the sustain this build is good. For roam lover I think I won't suggest Tactic Disc Spellbreaker build

The tradeoff though because swapping off Defense, you have to play more clean as in don't be out of position too much because if you got caught and EP/Defiant on CD it's insta death, have to be more to stay close to the group. Having Defense it's a bit forgiving because you got extra Balance Stance and EP.

So far I have a blast with the Tactic Disc Spellbreaker, I haven't ask people who go for more support build with Tactic Defense Spellbreaker Warhorn type, but would love to hear it.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"Exzen.2976" said:It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

Maybe im just expecting more intelligence from players. Nobody who has a brain will play this trait in an actual good build. I never understood ppl who play a gimmick build just to win 1 matchup and lose to everybody else

So you don't see any use for this in a Zerg even?

for tactics, yes, not for warriors cunning.im definately not a fan of "dmg warriors" in zergs, since they cant even do stuff while casting winds of disenchantment, and enemies are dropping anyways.ranged dmg is alot more reliable.a shoutwarri for example is can still atleast use his shouts.

I get you, to each there own. We all have our preferences. I know that I've wanted warrior support for a long time.

A rifle Tactics Zerker though would be reliable range damage, and can still use shouts while Gunflaming the Scourges.

Meh, the low unblockable uptimes and all of the rifle skills being projectiles makes it unreliable imo

Like I said to each their own.

warrior unreliable unblocables uptime, when did Anet removed the signets unblockables??

It’s 10sec unblocks that can’t be absorbed, blocked nor reflected... only way to counter is invunerabilities, dodge and blind....

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I get you, to each there own. We all have our preferences. I know that I've wanted warrior support for a long time.

A rifle Tactics Zerker though would be reliable range damage, and can still use shouts while Gunflaming the Scourges.

And I am here to give some report... I am not sure report is the correct word but here is the experienceSo I swap the Defense out for Tactic Disc Spellbreaker, from what I see aside from the increased damage (because of the trait) and I can apply more immobilize to screw people, but this build is really for if you have coordinated group/zerg to cover the sustain, if they can cover the sustain this build is good. For roam lover I think I won't suggest Tactic Disc Spellbreaker build

The tradeoff though because swapping off Defense, you have to play more clean as in don't be out of position too much because if you got caught and EP/Defiant on CD it's insta death, have to be more to stay close to the group. Having Defense it's a bit forgiving because you got extra Balance Stance and EP.

So far I have a blast with the Tactic Disc Spellbreaker, I haven't ask people who go for more support build with Tactic Defense Spellbreaker Warhorn type, but would love to hear it.

Well Redshark was loving the support tree in his WvW zerg the other night. Got some massive self healing from FGJ due to Mender's Might and Vigorous Shouts, not to mention the heals he gave out to others.

[Shao.7236]

Given Barrier is often as low as 50 HP on stuff like Weaver or people using Sanctuary, 50% is an overkill bonus. It should instead ignore 50% of barrier and go through for dealing damage to raw HP. Keep the 25% bonus on 90% people as well.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Shao.7236 said:Given Barrier is often as low as 50 HP on stuff like Weaver or people using Sanctuary, 50% is an overkill bonus. It should instead ignore 50% of barrier and go through for dealing damage to raw HP. Keep the 25% bonus on 90% people as well.

Not a bad suggestion actually.

[DKRathalos.9625]

@"Shao.7236" said:Given Barrier is often as low as 50 HP on stuff like Weaver or people using Sanctuary, 50% is an overkill bonus. It should instead ignore 50% of barrier and go through for dealing damage to raw HP. Keep the 25% bonus on 90% people as well.

I see but I think their idea is warrior will get rid all of the barrier so the other DPS will do full damage to the HP, if they do something like this, the warrior get "pierce" damage instantly damaging health without damaging barrier but the other class will have to go through barrier which is opposite of their idea to implement this.

They want warrior to be able to remove barriers.

[Don Vega Van Kain.9842]

@DKRathalos.9625 said:I see but I think their idea is warrior will get rid all of the barrier so the other DPS will do full damage to the HP

=) as if War needs others DPS to do damages lul he can do ALL the stuff alone. just take the beer.

They want warrior to be able to remove barriers.

Probably the wrong profession....

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Given Barrier is often as low as 50 HP on stuff like Weaver or people using Sanctuary, 50% is an overkill bonus. It should instead ignore 50% of barrier and go through for dealing damage to raw HP. Keep the 25% bonus on 90% people as well.

I see but I think their idea is warrior will get rid all of the barrier so the other DPS will do full damage to the HP, if they do something like this, the warrior get "pierce" damage instantly damaging health without damaging barrier but the other class will have to go through barrier which is opposite of their idea to implement this.

They want warrior to be able to remove barriers.

Well, they could do that by making the trait simply remove the barrier without the DPS increase.

[Shao.7236]

@"DKRathalos.9625" said:I see but I think their idea is warrior will get rid all of the barrier so the other DPS will do full damage to the HP, if they do something like this, the warrior get "pierce" damage instantly damaging health without damaging barrier but the other class will have to go through barrier which is opposite of their idea to implement this.

They want warrior to be able to remove barriers.

Getting hit for 50% more by a 15k burst because of the mere existence of negligible Barrier that may not even compensate or I ask for given it's often shared is too much. Piercing through by 50% however is fair, because it makes total nullification of damage less likely therefor force people (Often Scrappers) to use their heal.

Weavers/Scourges are already squishy af armor wise, this current bonus is just unfair.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"DKRathalos.9625" said:I see but I think their idea is warrior will get rid all of the barrier so the other DPS will do full damage to the HP, if they do something like this, the warrior get "pierce" damage instantly damaging health without damaging barrier but the other class will have to go through barrier which is opposite of their idea to implement this.

They want warrior to be able to remove barriers.

Getting hit for 50% more by a 15k burst because of the mere existence of negligible Barrier that may not even compensate or I ask for given it's often shared is too much. Piercing through by 50% however is fair, because it makes total nullification of damage less likely therefor force people (Often Scrappers) to use their heal.

Weavers/Scourges are already squishy af armor wise, this current bonus is just unfair.

It may also be Anet forcing more judicious gameplay on barrier application.

[DKRathalos.9625]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well, they could do that by making the trait simply remove the barrier without the DPS increase.

Your suggestion is good, but maybe anet see giving bonus damage's coding is easier to make than remove barrier? Who knows, that is on their side and their team's capability.

@"Shao.7236" said:

Getting hit for 50% more by a 15k burst because of the mere existence of negligible Barrier that may not even compensate or I ask for given it's often shared is too much. Piercing through by 50% however is fair, because it makes total nullification of damage less likely therefor force people (Often Scrappers) to use their heal.

Fair if you look at Warrior as a single class for PvP but like I said again in WvW you won't face single class vs single class, you will mostly face multiple class and you got allies. They want the gameplay to be [Warrior remove Barrier] so Revenant, Scourge, and other DPS class could deal full damage to health without barrier getting in the way. They sort of want to make Warrior DPS support which in this role the support is "remove barrier" that is the theme, if they make warrior ignore barrier then the other DPS' damage is eaten by the barrier.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well, they could do that by making the trait simply

remove

the barrier without the DPS increase.

Your suggestion is good, but maybe anet see giving bonus damage's coding is easier to make than remove barrier? Who knows, that is on their side and their team's capability.

@"Shao.7236" said:

Getting hit for 50% more by a 15k burst because of the mere existence of negligible Barrier that may not even compensate or I ask for given it's often shared is too much. Piercing through by 50% however is fair, because it makes total nullification of damage less likely therefor force people (Often Scrappers) to use their heal.

Fair if you look at Warrior as a single class for PvP but like I said again in WvW you won't face single class vs single class, you will mostly face multiple class and you got allies. They want the gameplay to be [Warrior remove Barrier] so Revenant, Scourge, and other DPS class could deal full damage to health without barrier getting in the way. They sort of want to make Warrior DPS support which in this role the support is "remove barrier" that is the theme, if they make warrior ignore barrier then the other DPS' damage is eaten by the barrier.

Oh I am sure the DPS increase is easier to code, and I do agree that Anet seems to want barrier counterplay. This does aid other teammates in dealing their damage. For e-specs like scrapper though this seemed kind of overkill. Someone suggested inverting the barrier, which would be more fair to low barrier builds while keeping high barrier builds in check.