do you guys think a cap on persistent aoe's in an area would work?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:ok, with this change, you know what happened?

Every aoe class besides necros would be flamed of the maps. Because shades&marks are still so much more 'useful' than anything else. The result? 10fb/2scrapper/38 necro blobs AND NOTHING ELSE.

This idea is so bad, it is hard to describe, the more I think about it, the more bad moments this would create would pop up (oh no, no heals, because the scourges popped a mark to many for example).

ugh. getting tired of repeating myself. why do you think there would be no heal scenarios? did you even read the op? are you referring to any specific skills?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Cuks.8241 said:Failed to cast would be to annoying.How about you can only get hit by the same type of aoe as frequently as the skill ticks. So if a certain aoe ticks every second you can only get hit by those skills once every second regardless of the amount of them plastered under your feet.

nah... I would be down to try that out, but that would be even more restrictive. that would make most of peoples aoe's tic without doing anything, and make it nigh impossible to down people with spikes. I agree the failed cast would be annoying but if the cap was set high enough it wouldn't pop up too often.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Swagger.1459 said:Yes, let’s add more rules the servers need to process in real time, add more lag, annoy more players and not address the real issues.

I wonder sometimes if people really try to think ideas through to conclusion.

very lol. the lag comes from all the pulsing aoe's having to do pings every second to find all the closest players. his idea is a simple timer every player gets. it would not effect performance.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Whiteout.1975 said:What about throwing a default timer on how many (passive) AoEs you can throw down every few seconds? Like can you build up magical charges (you can see visually) that cause you to overload until that timer dies down some or back to zero. And say the cap is 3 charges max maybe per player.

would be down to try this out but it would be even more restrictive. well maybe not, if the timer was low enough... idk man interesting idea. setting limitations is always going to be met with a ton of resistance, especially in this spamfest of a game. I think the average wvw player would adapt. wouldn't dare to do this in pve tho lol.

[Chaba.5410]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:OK so you want to replace pulsing AoEs that get replastered in a small area with pulsing AoEs that get replastered in a wider area because of your target cap making it more difficult to find and move to AoE-free space? You're sort of not addressing what I said in my last post.

you're failing to realize that sustain could play more of a role in blob fights instead of most of the lopsided encounters wvw is prone to dish out.

I play sustain in zerg fights. LOL.

[Whiteout.1975]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Whiteout.1975" said:What about throwing a default timer on how many (passive) AoEs you can throw down every few seconds? Like can you build up magical charges (you can see visually) that cause you to overload until that timer dies down some or back to zero. And say the cap is 3 charges max maybe per player.

would be down to try this out but it would be even more restrictive. well maybe not, if the timer was low enough... idk man interesting idea. setting limitations is always going to be met with a ton of resistance, especially in this spamfest of a game. I think the average wvw player would adapt. wouldn't dare to do this in pve tho lol.

Cool. Yea, I agree with what you're saying about limitations. More people need to realize that limitations are there intended to help create a better environment. It's like with traffic IRL. For example, we have speed limits and precaution signs etc. for the same reason in that respect. Sometimes you need to add certain precautionary methods of going about something to prevent a bigger disaster from happening. Like, Idk what's so hard for some people to comprehend about that.

• I was thinking having a certain rhythm where after you lay 1 or 3 passive AoEs. By the time those are done... You can like in a second or two lay down another. So there is the overall "steady flow" on the rate you can lay down these passive AoEs. And not just being able to spam them all at once before the first one. And if it's a longer duration (passive) AoE... Well, maybe that gives 2 charges instead of 1. Or... If @Anet didn't want to do charges per say... They could implement a bar system like how endurance works and you gain or lose points in that "bar" even till you overload. Whatever works best :)

It's like do I believe I have the exact polished answer? No, that's ridiculous for about anyone who can't test this stuff so easily, but I do believe it could easily be apart of solving the overall problem; like your idea. The main problem with my idea here alone, is that it doesn't do anything about the initial fight where say... 50 -100 AoE's get laid down at once basically (because you have to build up your overload "charges" from that point). However, it should take care of the long term AoE application in a fight by pacing their applications out at far less spam-able rate and adds more risk to the game. Risk being one thing WvW desperately needs in general.

• And as a plus, like I was saying, if need be... Be a mechanic/method and reason to grant you access to, not necessarily more skills, but less problematic skills to use in the mean time till you get off cool-down. Which, again, would take care of the "skill failed" irritation that apparently exist's. Though, if it were me, I would just try use my other available skills anyways, but hey.

I agree with that too... A WvW player should adapt (and they're often so eager to do so here on the forums anyways) because we should not need 25 or 50 passive AoEs to kill a player, each player. Like lol... What on earth? All the better groups just focus their targets in outmanned situations especially and they're out-AoE'd as well. Less spam, more focus and interaction helps = A more immersive, rewarding, all around better gaming experience... IMO :)

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think I found the monkey wrench in this convo lol. when I was thinking about this cap idea, in my head I had put support aoe's and offensive aoe's into different categories.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Chaba.5410 said:I play sustain in zerg fights. LOL.

I just want better fights dood. maybe this would work. maybe it wouldn't.

[Straegen.2938]

AoE and Ranged skills should be the weakest damagers of all skills not the strongest. Melee skills should be the big hitters. It makes zero sense that low risk ranged AoE out damages short range have to close the gap attacks.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Straegen.2938 said:AoE and Ranged skills should be the weakest damagers of all skills not the strongest. Melee skills should be the big hitters. It makes zero sense that low risk ranged AoE out damages short range have to close the gap attacks.

Big skills like MS need to be strong, i kinda wish Anet decreased overall the aoes of the game thats where most problems towards pwoer creep comes from, and thenm increase the number of targets of MS with a longers CD, MS could be used as well as a zerg busting but if u fail... that the guild busting problem.

Problem is Anet made everything being messy AOE casting basicly :\

I bet this would fix part of the client and server bottlenecks with the info has to deliver and receive....(they are enforcing tons of aoe while servers cant handle that well...its nonsense... fgor a AAA company)

[Straegen.2938]

Big skills like MS need to be strong, i kinda wish Anet decreased overall the aoes of the game thats where most problems towards pwoer creep comes from, and thenm increase the number of targets of MS with a longers CD, MS could be used as well as a zerg busting but if u fail... that the guild busting problem.Meteor Shower roots the caster which is akin to a melee attack. The skill is also on a light armor, low hitpoint class and requires survival sacrifices to have big hits. Scourge, tanky as hell with unblockable spammable AoE from a long distance. If all big hitting AoEs rooted the caster and required a degree of squishiness, that works.

I bet this would fix part of the client and server bottlenecks with the info has to deliver and receive....(they are enforcing tons of aoe while servers cant handle that well...its nonsense... fgor a AAA company)It definitely is. There is a reason large scale online games have very limited amounts of AoE and I suspect if Anet could do it all over again their AoE would be far more limited.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Maybe it would be better to instead of capping persistant AoE's, just remove persistant AoE's, and rework them all as single application AoE skills with the few exceptions having long cooldowns like meteor shower. You could balance it so the damage etc was comparable, but then the game wouldn't have to keep track of a billion red circles ticking for 5s each.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Maybe it would be better to instead of capping persistant AoE's, just remove persistant AoE's, and rework them all as single application AoE skills with the few exceptions having long cooldowns like meteor shower. You could balance it so the damage etc was comparable, but then the game wouldn't have to keep track of a billion red circles ticking for 5s each.

I think all aoe lasts too long. perhaps nerfing the duration and making the effects stronger would help? I hope anet, if they do another expac, doesn't throw in a ton more aoe like they've done the last two expacs. might as well shut down wvw at that point lol.

[Dadnir.5038]

Personnally, I was thinking of an environmental mechanism in WvW that would reduce the damage and condition duration dealt by the aoe based on how many aoe overlap with them with a reduction cap based on the number of target that the aoe can hit. They could name it energy instability.

Damage reduction:

• 2 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 25%
• 3 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 37.5%
• 4 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 43.75%
• 5 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 47% (which would be the cap for 5 targets aoe)
• ... etc.

It's probably not perfect but it should tune done the the abusive use of aoe in WvW.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Personnally, I was thinking of an environmental mechanism in WvW that would reduce the damage and condition duration dealt by the aoe based on how many aoe overlap with them with a reduction cap based on the number of target that the aoe can hit. They could name it energy instability.

Damage reduction:

• 2 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 25%
• 3 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 37.5%
• 4 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 43.75%
• 5 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 47% (which would be the cap for 5 targets aoe)
• ... etc.

It's probably not perfect but it should tune done the the abusive use of aoe in WvW.

hmm. maybe if you change those numbers to 20 overlapping 10% reduction, 30/20, 40/30 etc. even then I think people would rather wait a sec to cast then have their skills do less damage. cuz big red numbars. good idea tho.

[L A T I O N.8923]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Personnally, I was thinking of an environmental mechanism in WvW that would reduce the damage and condition duration dealt by the aoe based on how many aoe overlap with them with a reduction cap based on the number of target that the aoe can hit. They could name it energy instability.

Damage reduction:

• 2 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 25%
• 3 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 37.5%
• 4 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 43.75%
• 5 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 47% (which would be the cap for 5 targets aoe)
• ... etc.

It's probably not perfect but it should tune done the the abusive use of aoe in WvW.

I can see this give a bit more lag thoughChoosing targetCalculatie base damage for targetCalculates factor for damage

Do that like 50 Times every second for 30v30...

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Personnally, I was thinking of an environmental mechanism in WvW that would reduce the damage and condition duration dealt by the aoe based on how many aoe overlap with them with a reduction cap based on the number of target that the aoe can hit. They could name it

energy instability

.

Damage reduction:

• 2 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 25%
• 3 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 37.5%
• 4 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 43.75%
• 5 aoe overlapping: reduce damage and condition duration by 47% (which would be the cap for 5 targets aoe)
• ... etc.

It's probably not perfect but it should tune done the the abusive use of aoe in WvW.

I can see this give a bit more lag though

Choosing target

Calculatie base damage for target

Calculates factor for damage

Do that like 50 Times every second for 30v30...

as far as I know, servers have no problem with mathematical calculations. its when we're talking about every aoe doing area checks for proximity against moving targets that lag skyrockets.