Clownmug.8357 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Something's not right here...Spirit Weapons900 rangeAmmo chargesNo pathing requiredUntouchable minionsCooldown onlyLegendary Renegade Stance600 rangeSingle castPathing requiredKillable + interruptable minionsEnergy cost + cooldown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 the dmg weapon can realisticly do and what icerazor can do (only dmg stance) but stances have bigger aoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 @Catchyfx.5768 said:the dmg weapon can realisticly do and what icerazor can do (only dmg stance)but stances have bigger aoeBut don't forget that Icerazor only attacks one target at a time, so it's more like a turret than an AoE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kravey.4563 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 It still makes me furious trying to use them in some specific areas - shows you green circle meaning you can cast skill, but actually I end up seeing 'No valid path to target' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 @"Kravey.4563" said:It still makes me furious trying to use them in some specific areas - shows you green circle meaning you can cast skill, but actually I end up seeing 'No valid path to target'The whole "path to target" thing was what prompted me to look into Spirit Weapon mechanics. In wvw I saw an enemy summon Sword of Justice up a wall and I thought, "Wtf, why can't I do that?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonArkanio.6419 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I'd actually like to spawn Charr Spirits that work like Spirit Weapons.Eh, whathever, I keep on wondering what great things Renegade could have for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 The aoe size for kalla summons is disgusting though. If they made them unkillable it would become scourge 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 @Justine.6351 said:The aoe size for kalla summons is disgusting though. If they made them unkillable it would become scourge 2.0If they had to cut down the size to compensate I wouldn't mind. I just want to be able to summon without worrying about if it can reach a target area and won't instantly die or get interrupted when it appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 @Knighthonor.4061 said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed. You like them all, even Razorclaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 @Clownmug.8357 said:@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed. You like them all, even Razorclaw?If talking about "What it does", then No.But in terms of how the mechanics works then yes. Making them un-CCable would lead to major nerfs. The pathing issue I believe is a bug, which I hope would get resolved. Razor I would prefer had a different effect to be more useful, maybe add another condition or some unique effect to make it worth the use over other warbands for its energy cost.What could make it better was simply adding its own AoE attack to Razorclaw so that it apply its own conditions while still granting ally attacks the ability to apply bleeds. This way the stacking ability of the bleeds and conditions would be somewhat worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 In fact Razorclaw attack that deals some damage and converts boons into conditions while buffing ally attacks to apply bleeding on hit, double bleeds on crits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 @Knighthonor.4061 said:@Clownmug.8357 said:@Knighthonor.4061 said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed. You like them all, even Razorclaw?If talking about "What it does", then No.But in terms of how the mechanics works then yes. Making them un-CCable would lead to major nerfs. The pathing issue I believe is a bug, which I hope would get resolved. Razor I would prefer had a different effect to be more useful, maybe add another condition or some unique effect to make it worth the use over other warbands for its energy cost.What could make it better was simply adding its own AoE attack to Razorclaw so that it apply its own conditions while still granting ally attacks the ability to apply bleeds. This way the stacking ability of the bleeds and conditions would be somewhat worth it. I hope the pathing thing is just a bug and not an intentional design choice. It reminds me of how Vengeful Hammers used to be a projectile skill that got cancelled any time you touched a wall or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 @Clownmug.8357 said:@Knighthonor.4061 said:@Clownmug.8357 said:@Knighthonor.4061 said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed. You like them all, even Razorclaw?If talking about "What it does", then No.But in terms of how the mechanics works then yes. Making them un-CCable would lead to major nerfs. The pathing issue I believe is a bug, which I hope would get resolved. Razor I would prefer had a different effect to be more useful, maybe add another condition or some unique effect to make it worth the use over other warbands for its energy cost.What could make it better was simply adding its own AoE attack to Razorclaw so that it apply its own conditions while still granting ally attacks the ability to apply bleeds. This way the stacking ability of the bleeds and conditions would be somewhat worth it. I hope the pathing thing is just a bug and not an intentional design choice. It reminds me of how Vengeful Hammers used to be a projectile skill that got cancelled any time you touched a wall or something.Probably copy paste of necro wurm skill rofl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Irehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 @"Justine.6351" said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Irehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/BarrageI think Icerazor is stronger damage wise, but Barrage has greater usability. There's no comparison though when it comes to Icerazor's proficiency in fighting supply depots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 @Clownmug.8357 said:@"Justine.6351" said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Irehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/BarrageI think Icerazor is stronger damage wise, but Barrage has greater usability. There's no comparison though when it comes to Icerazor's proficiency in fighting supply depots.Lolwhat? Izerazor has nothing on barrage damage numbers, certainly not when you include more foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 @Justine.6351 said:@Clownmug.8357 said:@Justine.6351 said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Irehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/BarrageI think Icerazor is stronger damage wise, but Barrage has greater usability. There's no comparison though when it comes to Icerazor's proficiency in fighting supply depots.Lolwhat? Izerazor has nothing on barrage damage numbers, certainly not when you include more foes.Icerazor has can be cast while moving, has a fraction of the cast time, and stacks a ton of vulnerability. Those are not at all negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 @ArthurDent.9538 said:@Justine.6351 said:@Clownmug.8357 said:@Justine.6351 said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Irehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/BarrageI think Icerazor is stronger damage wise, but Barrage has greater usability. There's no comparison though when it comes to Icerazor's proficiency in fighting supply depots.Lolwhat? Izerazor has nothing on barrage damage numbers, certainly not when you include more foes.Icerazor has can be cast while moving, has a fraction of the cast time, and stacks a ton of vulnerability. Those are not at all negligible.Yeah, it's easily putting out 20+ vulnerability and 5 Kalla's Fevor. So Icerazor's dps is higher, but Barrage lasts longer and hits more targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solnos.8045 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 It’s not really fair that you’re comparing renegade skills to the skills of anet’s favorite child- i mean class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Shao.7236 said:Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well.What synergy? I don't see it other than being able to cover up the interruptable minion defect by giving them stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impling.4170 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Sadly I don't see the pathing issue ever getting fixed because they seem to have to respect similar pathing restrictions as ports and summons like Flesh Wurm due to the fact that it is a killable AI "character" that is being spawned, and not an untargetable/unkillable skill. I'm in favor of spirits getting a rework because I dislike the mechanic of absurdly large AoEs, but if they never intend on fully reworking them, I would appreciate two things for them:1s of invulnerability upon spawn"Consume" skills for all skills but Soulcleave that each have a unique effect, such as AoE chill and an ice field from Icerazor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Clownmug.8357 said:@Shao.7236 said:Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well.What synergy? I don't see it other than being able to cover up the interruptable minion defect by giving them stability. You say that Renegade summons are underpowered because they can be killed/interrupted, yet without even trying it's easy to prevent those problems from happening with proper utility because making legends have synergy is how you make the profession work.Your comparison it's pretty unfair aside the pathing issues. Their radius is bigger, they have better effects, they have lower cooldowns and with those lower cooldowns that will make them be used more often compared ammo recharge rates, their effective time after being casted is longer at nearly half their cooldown and finally energy is part of the profession, it all lines up pretty well.This is not counting the extra utility from being Renegade like alacrity and the other skills from having another legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Shao.7236 said:@Clownmug.8357 said:@Shao.7236 said:Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well.What synergy? I don't see it other than being able to cover up the interruptable minion defect by giving them stability. You say that Renegade summons are underpowered because they can be killed/interrupted, yet without even trying it's easy to prevent those problems from happening with proper utility because making legends have synergy is how you make the profession work.Why should you have to prevent those problems though? Spirit Weapons also used to have minions that were killable and interruptable, then someone realized that wasn't viable for all game modes and made them AoE skills. If you think about it, Kalla's skills are practically AoE skills already, the minions don't even follow you or use command skills like Spirit Weapons used to.Your comparison it's pretty unfair aside the pathing issues. Their radius is bigger, they have better effects, they have lower cooldowns and with those lower cooldowns that will make them be used more often compared ammo recharge rates, their effective time after being casted is longer at nearly half their cooldown and finally energy is part of the profession, it all lines up pretty well.Some of Kalla's skills have nice effects, but I don't see how the cooldowns compete. How does Icerazor with 12s CD get used more often than Sword of Justice with 3 charges @ 20s recharge, or traited with 4 charges @ 16s recharge? If you only use a charge every 8 seconds (4 seconds traited) you'll still summon more often than Icerazor.This is not counting the extra utility from being Renegade like alacrity and the other skills from having another legend.Yeah, it sounds like you would be going into comparing a whole build anyways, rather than just skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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