Zexanima.7851 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 If new e-specs every come out that is. Something that provides good defensive boons and decent HPS. Maybe a staff used like a fighting staff that heals allies in a 900 radius for 5%-10% of your outgoing crit damage. Most everything besides warrior, thief, and mesmer have an okay defensive support spec of some kind it seems. Just would like something for warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftFootpaws.9134 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Thief has a pretty okay defensive support spec after the last big update, they tweaked Warrior support at the same time but only added a single defensive change which was Barrier and Resistance on Warhorn.. I'd like to see more, even if its not a full spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Yeah, soldiers focus should have had a shorter CD, then Tactics would have been amazing as pure support. Soldiers Focus, and the traits tied to it, procing on any burst would be a steady amount of healing and might for a party while also doing competent DPS.As it stands I'm all in for a support spec... with pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Yeah, soldiers focus should have had a shorter CD, then Tactics would have been amazing as pure support. Soldiers Focus, and the traits tied to it, procing on any burst would be a steady amount of healing and might for a party while also doing competent DPS.As it stands I'm all in for a support spec... with pistols.True, the effects tied to soldiers focus are way too weak to justify a 15 second cooldown. Its pathetic honestly, and i never even wasted much of a thought taking any of the associated skills, considering what the other options are. To OP, healing based on your outgoing dmg is imo too unreliant to actually use effectivly. Because to do dmg you need to take dmg alot of the times, and low hp ppl wont want to take the risk of getting too close to taking dmg.Id love a support spec based on gw1 paragon. Give me a scepter with a spear skin and let me throw it at my foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 @RedShark.9548 said:Id love a support spec based on gw1 paragon. Give me a sceptre with a spear skin and let me throw it at my foes.I'd love to watch people throwing that legendary Aztec sceptre around everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 @"Hannelore.8153" said:Thief has a pretty okay defensive support spec after the last big updateI feel like calling it an "okay defensive support spec" is already overselling it by a lot :D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.Yeah, this balance patch change a lot. If we did get a new espec it would have to be something that isn't power-crept boon spam too. Like, just a high heals-per-second spec providing high uptime on 1 maybe 2 boons and 1 unique buff. Maybe like a "battle commander" theme that replaces burst with 3 support burst skills and one bar of adrenaline that can be spent on any one. They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Zexanima.7851 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.Yeah, this balance patch change a lot. If we did get a new espec it would have to be something that isn't power-crept boon spam too. Like, just a high heals-per-second spec providing high uptime on 1 maybe 2 boons and 1 unique buff. Maybe like a "battle commander" theme that replaces burst with 3 support burst skills and one bar of adrenaline that can be spent on any one. They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Why not something more like how they updated Warhorn to? A buff to reduce incoming Damage/condi damage by 20% that isn't Protection. This means that its duration cannot be extended. Say a CD of 10s, duration 5s. Another buff that increases Damage/condi damage by 20% for 5s, ICD 10s (10% damage increase in PvP/WvW), and a third buff on a 10s CD that Heals allies within 900 for X healing per second for 5s. Not sure on the number of the heal pulse. Each of these would have to count as a T1 burst, Burst Mastery CD reduction would apply. The traits that proc upon hitting with a burst might have to have a rider that they work on such commands even though they do not target or hit anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Zexanima.7851 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.Yeah, this balance patch change a lot. If we did get a new espec it would have to be something that isn't power-crept boon spam too. Like, just a high heals-per-second spec providing high uptime on 1 maybe 2 boons and 1 unique buff. Maybe like a "battle commander" theme that replaces burst with 3 support burst skills and one bar of adrenaline that can be spent on any one. They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Why not something more like how they updated Warhorn to? A buff to reduce incoming Damage/condi damage by 20% that isn't Protection. This means that its duration cannot be extended. Say a CD of 10s, duration 5s. Another buff that increases Damage/condi damage by 20% for 5s, ICD 10s (10% damage increase in PvP/WvW), and a third buff on a 10s CD that Heals allies within 900 for X healing per second for 5s. Not sure on the number of the heal pulse. Each of these would have to count as a T1 burst, Burst Mastery CD reduction would apply. The traits that proc upon hitting with a burst might have to have a rider that they work on such commands even though they do not target or hit anything.Yeah, something to that effect. For utilities it could have "formations" that act kind of like scrapper gyros in an area around the warrior that affects allies. One for healing, one for protection, one for a pulsing cleanse, and one that pulses cripple and weakness. The ultimate could be a small area dome of shields that roots the warrior on cast. It will force enemies out, block projectiles, and pulse resistance with a fairly high cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Zexanima.7851 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Yeah, or maybe instead of acting like a new offensive boon for staying in range of the warrior, it could be a utility skill to drop something and that something could then give allies precision/ferocity or power/condi damage as unique offensive boons not accessible to other classes?wink winkOn the other hand I don't understand how someone can claim he's opposed to following boon power creep, but at the same time proposes to introduce a new buff that affects (and heals?) "all allies in range". Doesn't that already sound stupidly strong if it were meant to have values on a level that would actually make a noticable difference? All it will do is enforce a meta composition where you either have "this this and this" to stack all the possible, exclusive buffs in the game or you lose. Meh.@Hannelore.8153 said:Thief has a pretty okay defensive support spec after the last big update, they tweaked Warrior support at the same time but only added a single defensive change which was Barrier and Resistance on Warhorn.. I'd like to see more, even if its not a full spec.Also, I understand that this post is written by someone else, but I can't help but somewhat keep thinking about this -how can anyone think that a thief (of all things) has an okay defensive support spec, but warrior in its current form doesn't? :p(not counting specific raid encounters, obviously)@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.But yeah, I mostly agree with this and I'm curious if the game will change a lot after this rebalance. Interesting if they'll touch the boon case at all, but for now I didn't see them mention anything about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Sobx.1758 said:@Zexanima.7851 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Yeah, or maybe instead of acting like a new offensive boon for staying in range of the warrior, it could be a utility skill to drop something and that something could then give allies precision/ferocity or power/condi damage as unique offensive boons not accessible to other classes?wink winkOn the other hand I don't understand how someone can claim he's opposed to following boon power creep, but at the same time proposes to introduce a new buff that affects (and heals?) "all allies in range". Doesn't that already sound stupidly strong if it were meant to have values on a level that would actually make a noticable difference? All it will do is enforce a meta composition where you either have "this this and this" to stack all the possible, exclusive buffs in the game or you lose. Meh.Boon creep is in part perma-maintained buffs and buffs that can be reapplied quickly. What was just mentioned were unique effects that cannot be perma-maintained, nor have their duration extended.@Hannelore.8153 said:Thief has a pretty okay defensive support spec after the last big update, they tweaked Warrior support at the same time but only added a single defensive change which was Barrier and Resistance on Warhorn.. I'd like to see more, even if its not a full spec.Also, I understand that this post is written by someone else, but I can't help but somewhat keep thinking about this -how can anyone think that a thief (of all things) has an okay defensive support spec, but warrior in its current form doesn't? :p(not counting specific raid encounters, obviously)@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.But yeah, I mostly agree with this and I'm curious if the game will change a lot after this rebalance. Interesting if they'll touch the boon case at all, but for now I didn't see them mention anything about that.It is important to see what the changes will be. But, at the same time envisioning what we'd LIKE warrior support to be, and moderating it with the theme of the incoming changes is still constructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Zexanima.7851 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Yeah, or maybe instead of acting like a new offensive boon for staying in range of the warrior, it could be a utility skill to drop something and that something could then give allies precision/ferocity or power/condi damage as unique offensive boons not accessible to other classes?wink winkOn the other hand I don't understand how someone can claim he's opposed to following boon power creep, but at the same time proposes to introduce a new buff that affects (and heals?) "all allies in range". Doesn't that already sound stupidly strong if it were meant to have values on a level that would actually make a noticable difference? All it will do is enforce a meta composition where you either have "this this and this" to stack all the possible, exclusive buffs in the game or you lose. Meh.Boon creep is in part perma-maintained buffs and buffs that can be reapplied quickly. What was just mentioned were unique effects that cannot be perma-maintained, nor have their duration extended.Don't forget that a lot of traits that are proced and/or are based around boons too so unique buffs wouldn't have synergy with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Zexanima.7851 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Yeah, or maybe instead of acting like a new offensive boon for staying in range of the warrior, it could be a utility skill to drop something and that something could then give allies precision/ferocity or power/condi damage as unique offensive boons not accessible to other classes?wink winkOn the other hand I don't understand how someone can claim he's opposed to following boon power creep, but at the same time proposes to introduce a new buff that affects (and heals?) "all allies in range". Doesn't that already sound stupidly strong if it were meant to have values on a level that would actually make a noticable difference? All it will do is enforce a meta composition where you either have "this this and this" to stack all the possible, exclusive buffs in the game or you lose. Meh.Boon creep is in part perma-maintained buffs and buffs that can be reapplied quickly. What was just mentioned were unique effects that cannot be perma-maintained, nor have their duration extended.Ah, ok. I just saw zexanima proposing "high uptime on 2 buffs and a new one" and, well... That's pretty much what I understood by it -the line between "high uptime" and "perma" seems pretty thin nowadays :x @Hannelore.8153 said:Thief has a pretty okay defensive support spec after the last big update, they tweaked Warrior support at the same time but only added a single defensive change which was Barrier and Resistance on Warhorn.. I'd like to see more, even if its not a full spec.Also, I understand that this post is written by someone else, but I can't help but somewhat keep thinking about this -how can anyone think that a thief (of all things) has an okay defensive support spec, but warrior in its current form doesn't? :p(not counting specific raid encounters, obviously)@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.But yeah, I mostly agree with this and I'm curious if the game will change a lot after this rebalance. Interesting if they'll touch the boon case at all, but for now I didn't see them mention anything about that.It is important to see what the changes will be. But, at the same time envisioning what we'd LIKE warrior support to be, and moderating it with the theme of the incoming changes is still constructive.Sure, you're as free to theorycraft/throw out new ideas as I am to voice my doubts about it, right? No harm done. :p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Shout Healers exist.People need to get it out of their head that a "support" must be able to spit out boons like crazy.No, Warriors can "support" just fine by shout-healing, Phalanx Strength and being a CC truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Zexanima.7851 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p IMO, I don't think it's the fact that we have zero support it's that we're outclassed by others on support. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.This. I see a true support spec being an E-Spec that builds on top of Tactics so that warrior support becomes X/Tactics/E-Spec, which would end up not being top DPS, but would end up being viable as a support role in place of one of the other established support specs. Ideally such an E-Spec would focus on support via bursts and proximity to the warrior.They could give a short unique buff and heal too all allies affected in range when used. +100 ferocity on one, +100 power on another, ect ect. Almost like guardian's virtues but more offensive support oriented and use is based around adrenaline management. Yeah, or maybe instead of acting like a new offensive boon for staying in range of the warrior, it could be a utility skill to drop something and that something could then give allies precision/ferocity or power/condi damage as unique offensive boons not accessible to other classes?wink winkOn the other hand I don't understand how someone can claim he's opposed to following boon power creep, but at the same time proposes to introduce a new buff that affects (and heals?) "all allies in range". Doesn't that already sound stupidly strong if it were meant to have values on a level that would actually make a noticable difference? All it will do is enforce a meta composition where you either have "this this and this" to stack all the possible, exclusive buffs in the game or you lose. Meh.Boon creep is in part perma-maintained buffs and buffs that can be reapplied quickly. What was just mentioned were unique effects that cannot be perma-maintained, nor have their duration extended.Ah, ok. I just saw zexanima proposing "high uptime on 2 buffs and a new one" and, well... That's pretty much what I understood by it -the line between "high uptime" and "perma" seems pretty thin nowadays :x Well, 50% uptime should be good enough, 62% if traited, to attain the desired effects.@Hannelore.8153 said:Thief has a pretty okay defensive support spec after the last big update, they tweaked Warrior support at the same time but only added a single defensive change which was Barrier and Resistance on Warhorn.. I'd like to see more, even if its not a full spec.Also, I understand that this post is written by someone else, but I can't help but somewhat keep thinking about this -how can anyone think that a thief (of all things) has an okay defensive support spec, but warrior in its current form doesn't? :p(not counting specific raid encounters, obviously)@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Sobx.1758 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Already has defence linens to some degree tactics with aoe condiclear and heals. I dont think warrior is meant to be defence like guard... they are mean tough people that clobber people with giant hammersThey can also be a Commander from the midline giving out orders and supporting their team :wink: Through shouts, heals and some boons, which they already can do :p To a unsatisfying degree for many.What would be a satisfying degree? More spammy, almost passive heals while still dealing one of the top dps? I think that literally doesn't have right to exist in the game. Which means there's already pretty much a support build which some people claim to want, but it's just... not OP enough or something? :p Right now I'm just waiting to see what the massive balance patch they're working on does with the game.But yeah, I mostly agree with this and I'm curious if the game will change a lot after this rebalance. Interesting if they'll touch the boon case at all, but for now I didn't see them mention anything about that.It is important to see what the changes will be. But, at the same time envisioning what we'd LIKE warrior support to be, and moderating it with the theme of the incoming changes is still constructive.Sure, you're as free to theorycraft/throw out new ideas as I am to voice my doubts about it, right? No harm done. :p As always. Theory crafting is no fun if everyone agrees and no one pushes back. Honestly I think some of the balance issues are from Anet employees wanting their favorite classes buffed and made those changes without another person pushing back on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 @"Yasai.3549" said:Shout Healers exist.People need to get it out of their head that a "support" must be able to spit out boons like crazy.No, Warriors can "support" just fine by shout-healing, Phalanx Strength and being a CC truck. They exist, but they are not really on par with any other support. I also specifically talked against boon spam so I'm not one of those "people", I agree with you. I mean it might be just fine if this was pre-HoT but right now it's laughable it comparison to other professions's support options. This may be more a case of the other supports doing too much but even with nerfs I'm sure they will still out preform it. I'm a primarily sPvP (some wvw) player so I can't speak to it's spot in instanced content and how well shout heal preforms there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Zexanima.7851 said:@"Yasai.3549" said:Shout Healers exist.People need to get it out of their head that a "support" must be able to spit out boons like crazy.No, Warriors can "support" just fine by shout-healing, Phalanx Strength and being a CC truck. They exist, but they are not really on par with any other support. I also specifically talked against boon spam so I'm not one of those "people", I agree with you. I mean it might be just fine if this was pre-HoT but right now it's laughable it comparison to other professions's support options. This may be more a case of the other supports doing too much but even with nerfs I'm sure they will still out preform it. I'm a primarily sPvP (some wvw) player so I can't speak to it's spot in instanced content and how well shout heal preforms there. Outperformed by druids, firebrands, and tempests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 @Zexanima.7851 said:@"Yasai.3549" said:Shout Healers exist.People need to get it out of their head that a "support" must be able to spit out boons like crazy.No, Warriors can "support" just fine by shout-healing, Phalanx Strength and being a CC truck. They exist, but they are not really on par with any other support. I also specifically talked against boon spam so I'm not one of those "people", I agree with you. I mean it might be just fine if this was pre-HoT but right now it's laughable it comparison to other professions's support options. This may be more a case of the other supports doing too much but even with nerfs I'm sure they will still out preform it. I'm a primarily sPvP (some wvw) player so I can't speak to it's spot in instanced content and how well shout heal preforms there. That's because of one reason.Boons are too powerfulIt's nothing new, and people have talked about it for a long loong time. Boons are super powerful to the point, most matchups end up to see who can outboon and strip boons better.This was made even clearer with the appearance of Boonbeasts in both sPvP and WvW roaming. perma boon uptime is RIDICULOUS. And the painful fact is that, yu can't just "nerf boons" too.Alot of PvE elements actually rely on boon output to successfully and comfortably clear content.Nerfing boons will nerf an entire gamemode, one which is significantly more populated that sPvP or WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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