PVP mesmer changes -> Discussion ( ill edit in my thoughts later propably )

[Quadox.7834]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I think with mirage nerfs, people overlook the fact that we lost 50% damage if not more.Event without losing the dodger I dont think mirage would be good, let alone without it.p4 got 33% dmg nerf ( average other nerfs so fine )Sharper immages got nerfed by like 95%, compleatly GUTTED. <--- big part of damage.Clone generation went down BIG time.other classes lose 30% dmg and healing.mirage lost 50% dmg, 30% clone generation. 30% healing and dodge.

You could play torch instead of pistol

[Quadox.7834]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

I would love if I could play oldschool, maybe even gs/staff but I doubt it, too low damage and thief is too strong.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

[Yasai.3549]

@Quadox.7834 said:

I would love if I could play oldschool, maybe even gs/staff but I doubt it, too low damage and thief is too strong.

Not sure about Thief being too strong, but rather more worried about how messed up they are gonna make the traitlines.Alot of the new Traits are placed in positions which directly conflict with alot of builds which wanna pick specific trait combos.

This alone will break alot of builds, forcing them to pick other, less powerful options and to totally change up their playstyle. (which defeats the entire purpose of builds)And usually, Chrono Shatter is way better, but Chrono has their Invul removed and base Illusionary Persona removed so there's that to consider.

I'm curious to see if Bunker Condi Chrono will start making an appearance since TTK is increased they could actually maybe survive long term skirmishes.

Like for example a Condi Chrono with Sword/Shield or Pistol, Sceptre/Torch could be pretty funny to play.

[Quadox.7834]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

I would love if I could play oldschool, maybe even gs/staff but I doubt it, too low damage and thief is too strong.

Not sure about Thief being too strong, but rather more worried about how messed up they are gonna make the traitlines.Alot of the new Traits are placed in positions which directly conflict with alot of builds which wanna pick specific trait combos.

This alone will break alot of builds, forcing them to pick other, less powerful options and to totally change up their playstyle. (which defeats the entire purpose of builds)And usually, Chrono Shatter is way better, but Chrono has their Invul removed and base Illusionary Persona removed so there's that to consider.

I'm curious to see if Bunker Condi Chrono will start making an appearance since TTK is increased they could actually maybe survive long term skirmishes.

Like for example a Condi Chrono with Sword/Shield or Pistol, Sceptre/Torch could be pretty funny to play.

What im saying is, why would you ever pick core power over thief. It doesnt even have portal anymore.

[Quadox.7834]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

CS is on game since release.

[Quadox.7834]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

CS is on game since release.

Sorry you are right, I meant that core shatter was meta without CS. 20/20/0/0/30

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

CS is on game since release.

Sorry you are right, I meant that core shatter was meta without CS. 20/20/0/0/30

Which traits were chosen? I remember invigoration, IP, deceptive evasion, then I'm missing one on illusions and one on dom.

[Quadox.7834]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

CS is on game since release.

Sorry you are right, I meant that core shatter was meta without CS. 20/20/0/0/30

Which traits were chosen? I remember invigoration, IP, deceptive evasion, then I'm missing one on illusions and one on dom.

lets see: halting strike (interrupt dmg), shattered concentration, phantasmal fury, deceptive evasion, masterful reflection (reflect on distortion), illusionary elasticity (extra bounce), illusionary persona.

instead of reflect on distortion you could also pick precise wrack (+mindwrack critchance) or compounding power (+3% dmg for each illusion). most did this.

on sword you swap halting strike for mental torment (+mindwrack dmg), illusionary elasticity for illusionary invigoration (recharge all shatters at 50% hp) and phantasmal fury for blade training (+precision for sword).

I wanna go back

[viquing.8254]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

[Quadox.7834]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

[viquing.8254]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

[Quadox.7834]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

[viquing.8254]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

[Quadox.7834]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Debilitating dissipation was a fine trait and one of the most true mesmerish traits (read that as a GW1 mesmer type of choice in which you get losing both ways) there was, "should I kill the clones to prevent a shatter even if they hurt me or don't get any damage and risk a shatter?". The only thing it needed was the overwrite explosion gone.

[viquing.8254]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Mesmer wasn't meta in PvP... something played only by few pro players (who rerolled thieves back in times for most of them.) Can't be call meta.And staff sword build lack too many tools, particulary chasing and range pressure on open field WvW.Mean go on old forum archive vids thread. Find me a vid of power shatter in PvP.You like the build didn't make it more meta.

[viquing.8254]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Debilitating dissipation was a fine trait and one of the most true mesmerish traits (read that as a GW1 mesmer type of choice in which you get losing both ways) there was, "should I kill the clones to prevent a shatter even if they hurt me or don't get any damage and risk a shatter?". The only thing it needed was the overwrite explosion gone.

They shouldn't cut a third of mesmer core mechanics. I totally agree.

[Quadox.7834]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Mesmer wasn't meta in PvP... something played only by few pro players (who rerolled thieves back in times for most of them.) Can't be call meta.And staff sword build lack too many tools, particulary chasing and range pressure on open field WvW.Mean go on old forum archive vids thread. Find me a vid of power shatter in PvP.You like the build didn't make it more meta.

You are simply W R O N G. Why would I go watch forum archive videos when I can watch ESL cups and tournaments?

[Quadox.7834]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Debilitating dissipation was a fine trait and one of the most true mesmerish traits (read that as a GW1 mesmer type of choice in which you get losing both ways) there was, "should I kill the clones to prevent a shatter even if they hurt me or don't get any damage and risk a shatter?". The only thing it needed was the overwrite explosion gone.

They shouldn't cut a third of mesmer core mechanics. I totally agree.

Here we go again, this retarded nonsense "A tHirD oF mESmR mEcHAniCS".

[viquing.8254]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Debilitating dissipation was a fine trait and one of the most true mesmerish traits (read that as a GW1 mesmer type of choice in which you get losing both ways) there was, "should I kill the clones to prevent a shatter even if they hurt me or don't get any damage and risk a shatter?". The only thing it needed was the overwrite explosion gone.

They shouldn't cut a third of mesmer core mechanics. I totally agree.

Here we go again, this kitten nonsense "A tHirD oF mESmR mEcHAniCS".Every mesmers builds used thoses traits. they were way more used than IP.Mesmer was around clone shatter and fantasm.Than we have only shatter play after they remove it until pof came out.

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

Stun is an essential part of burst, while dazed you can still dodge.No stun means no power shatter.

Even at the times before gs power shatter was a thing, people would rely on CSed f3 to land a burst.

That's not true, power core shatter was meta before CS was added to the game.

I don't know if something played by only 3 mesmers who need their team (hudge teamplay) to babysit them can be call meta.Vanilla mesmer wasn't meta as a class in PvP.

yes it was

No it wasn't.The condi clone spammer were more efficient in unorganized play and the build your are talking about was just about portal play and free food for thieves if the team didn't assist it.Don't prettify what was vanilla mes please. The only mode were it can do something was wvw roaming. Apart being a veil bot in bus. And even here the power shatter was just for the vids as there were more efficient play.Mean it's not because this forum was gangrened with shatter mafia that it reflect what happened in game.

before gs/staff and gs/sword mesmer was meta with staff/sword and it was fine. But IIRC people have argued with you about this before so I don't feel like trying to convince you.

I was talking about the staff/sword build too as I was thinking that what you are talking about.You should argue because we can look at tournament class ratio, number of videos with this build if you want, the prove should come fast :

• mesmers playing 5v5 tournaments were rare and hugdly babysitted by their teams.
• 80% of old mesmers vids were about WvW roaming (again the only mode where mesmers were viable.).

Power shatter with IP was mainly played on the mesmer forum (by the "skilled mafia".), barely in game.

Gs/staff and gs/swordtorch were the builds that were hardcountered by thief, staff/sword wasn't that bad. It was fine, it was core mes, and it was meta - undeniably so. And condi mes was mostly just "good" when it had broken OP stuff like debilitating dissipation.

Mesmer wasn't meta in PvP... something played only by few pro players (who rerolled thieves back in times for most of them.) Can't be call meta.And staff sword build lack too many tools, particulary chasing and range pressure on open field WvW.Mean go on old forum archive vids thread. Find me a vid of power shatter in PvP.You like the build didn't make it more meta.

You are simply W R O N G. Why would I go watch forum archive videos when I can watch ESL cups and tournaments?Maybe because there is that few vids about our supposed meta build that it's hard to find ?You can even link ESL vid we can then discuss how many help from teamate they get to perform and mesmer representation.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I just had a bit of fridge logic. If the endurance reduction to mirage is only for PVP, then it isn't the true compensation that elite specs are supposed to get. It is just a PVP balancing measure.

Meaning... Mirage is going to get nerfed again in the future, to give it a true tradeoff for all game modes.

[Atille.5047]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I just had a bit of fridge logic. If the endurance reduction to mirage is only for PVP, then it isn't the true compensation that elite specs are supposed to get. It is just a PVP balancing measure.

Meaning... Mirage is going to get nerfed again in the future, to give it a true tradeoff for all game modes.

Lmao, that's... ouch.

[Quadox.7834]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I just had a bit of fridge logic. If the endurance reduction to mirage is only for PVP, then it isn't the true compensation that elite specs are supposed to get. It is just a PVP balancing measure.

Meaning... Mirage is going to get nerfed again in the future, to give it a true tradeoff for all game modes.

Dont think they care about there not being a tradeoff in PvE