PVP mesmer changes -> Discussion ( ill edit in my thoughts later propably )

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:with the gs2 cd decrease and illusions you can gs2 + mind wreck every 5sec.

pve change, also f1 doesnt do much damage anyways

uh no considering its a buff overall and most everyone else got their damage cut by at least 30%. gs2 1.8 + mind wreck 1.0 x 2 every 5 sec is a lot of damage in this upcoming patch.

didnt read patch for others, did others get nerfed in pve too?cd reduction is PVE onlyits also meaningless since you cat have illusions as GS mesmer.you need domi and dueling.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:didnt read patch for others, did others get nerfed in pve too?cd reduction is PVE onlyits also meaningless since you cat have illusions as GS mesmer.you need domi and dueling.

domination dueling illusions.i'm confused since the global changes page says its 5 sec but the pvp changes says its 8 sec. I asked in pvp changes page. on global page it doesn't specifically state its pve only while there are pve only changes listed.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:didnt read patch for others, did others get nerfed in pve too?cd reduction is PVE onlyits also meaningless since you cat have illusions as GS mesmer.you need domi and dueling.

domination dueling illusions.i'm confused since the global changes page says its 5 sec but the pvp changes says its 8 sec. I asked in pvp changes page. on global page it doesn't specifically state its pve only while there are pve only changes listed.

on pve forum its listed as CD changed to 5s.on pvp its listed that its changed from 5s to 8s. so pvp version is current 8sand core mesmer is not viable. in pve.no core traitline can contestshatter damage + crit chance + damage on crit + chronophantasma ( 100% dmg boost on all phantasms ) on top of continuum reset

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:on pve forum its listed as CD changed to 5s.on pvp its listed that its changed from 5s to 8s. so pvp version is current 8s

ok this is not a pve forum, its in the professions forum and it says global. global means all modes doesn't it? and i'm talking about pvp idc about pve.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:on pve forum its listed as CD changed to 5s.on pvp its listed that its changed from 5s to 8s. so pvp version is current 8s

ok

this

is not a pve forum, its in the professions forum and it says global. global means all modes doesn't it? and i'm talking about pvp idc about pve.

ah, you quoted me on pve part of the discussion so I got confused ;pThis is from general -> so it applies EVERYWHERE.Mind Stab: Cooldown reduced from 12 to 10 secondsMirror Blade: Fixed a bug which caused this skill to play its slashing effect on the player instead of its target. Cooldown reduced from 8s to 5s.

PVP sectionMirror Blade: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 seconds

What we get from this.1 Mirror Blade has 5s CD in PvE. instead of 8s ( 3s buff )2 Mirror Blade has 8s CD in PvP. Same as before ( no difference )3 Mind Stab has 10s CD instead of 8s ( 2s Buff )And VERY INPORTANT one4 CDR trait ( grandmaster ) got removed from the game, so we cant get 20% cd reduction.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:ah, you quoted me on pve part of the discussion so I got confused ;p

my bad. the wording is still confusing me so i'll just sit here like a dummy wondering whats going on. like I said in that global changes page they have notes next to some skills saying pve only so why not have one next to mirror blade? anyway dw about me lol.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Stand The Wall.6987 1 person made pve post, another made pvp post.small difference like that is understandable

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Stand The Wall.6987 1 person made pve post, another made pvp post.small difference like that is understandable

I told you 3 times already... fuckin lol.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Stand The Wall.6987 1 person made pve post, another made pvp post.small difference like that is understandable

I told you 3 times already... kitten lol.

I didnt mean to offend or upset you, I simply think they made it confusing becouse 2 diffrenet people made different posts. happens

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

So again they took some noob suggestion, - 50 endurance to one of the professions with the least amount of vigor...Mirage will be dead too.

Also by deleting CS they just killed power shatter.

[Yasai.3549]

I think they should just Rework or give an ICD on Deceptive EvasionThis is the trait which left a clone behind on Dodge.

I feel like this is the entire trait responsible for the inherent clone diarrhea problem, where all Mesmer complaints/oppression comes from.

The new Mirage heavy handed nerf to Endurance pretty obviously affects this trait directly due to simply missing an extra dodge.Clone generation is extremely prevailent on many Mirage builds, and this is a direct hit on any Mirage build which used Deceptive Evasion for their clone generation .

TL:DR

I feel like Mirage losing a dodge is abit too much. What should have been done is to nerf or rework things which made Mirage dodge spam a little too over the top, in an effort to reduce their combat efficiency

A dodge is firstmost a defensive tool over anything else, and Mirage being able to capitalize on their dodge to deal damage is a part of their design, but it was getting abit crazy considering how offensively they are using it without reprecussions (heck, they still have Core Mesmer's Invul over the many evades they have)

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Now, I know the devs in charge of balancing were never the brightest chick of the brood, and talking here is a waste of time [insert butWeReadForums.png.meme]. Still, I have a bet to win -I believe it will be useless, but I want to be able to say told you so.

Devs!REMEMBER WHAT YOU DID TO CHRONOMANCER?I know you do. You yeeted a spec out of pretty much everything except fractals, and ignored for months every community feedback about it; before the release, during the release and after the release. You have the data about who plays what, and you know nobody plays chrono, you just don't give enough of a damn about your job to just do something about it.

The solution was easy, you gladly ignored it; dry continuum split is a problem -which it was, and I was among those who played it-?Remove illusionary persona for continuum split only. Bam, everyone happy.You chose to remove illusionary persona for all the shatters,and also to remove distortionand also to remove lost time... just to be sure.You called it "tradeoff", you know very well it's a straight downgrade and if I had to choose between traiting for chronomancer and no trait at all I'd go traitless gladly and call it a day; you probably would too, if you ever played the game.

YOU ARE DOING THE SAME TO MIRAGEI'm not touched the slightest by mirage being nuked out of existence, I don't play it. But halving its endurance is a stupid move.You got a problem with a toxic mechanic? TOUCH THAT TOXIC MECHANIC.Problem: ambushes are great, but infinity horizon can turn too easily into toxic spam. You tweaked the numbers every patch, but nonetheless every condi mirage can spam chaos vortex ad libitum.

You love infinity horizon so much?That's great, I'd love it too if I were you -I'm not and I hate it, but if I were you, I'd love it.Then PLACE A COST ON AMBUSHES.A dodge takes 50 endurance. Activating an ambush costs 10 more endurance -or 5 or whatever, you tweak the numbers.RandomMirageGuy want to spam ambushes with 3 clones up? Very fine. But he spends 50end for the dodge, 10 to activate his ambush and 30 more to activate the ambush for his clones; if he has no endurance to sustain it, he\some\all of his clones won't use ambushes.It's so easy.Much healthier than just deleting the spec. I know you are not a fan of having endurance costs for performing actions, but I'm not a fan of having my class removed either.Because, you know, I haven't seen any update about chrono changes being reverted, core mesmer won't be able to oneshot anymore -wouldn't be a problem if you gave us the sustain to do anything else other than bursting from stealth-, you are nuking mirage too so the list of available choices is growing quite thin.

[Quadox.7834]

@Yasai.3549 said:I think they should just Rework or give an ICD on Deceptive EvasionThis is the trait which left a clone behind on Dodge.

I feel like this is the entire trait responsible for the inherent clone diarrhea problem, where all Mesmer complaints/oppression comes from.

The new Mirage heavy handed nerf to Endurance pretty obviously affects this trait directly due to simply missing an extra dodge.Clone generation is extremely prevailent on many Mirage builds, and this is a direct hit on any Mirage build which used Deceptive Evasion for their clone generation .

TL:DR

I feel like Mirage losing a dodge is abit too much. What should have been done is to nerf or rework things which made Mirage dodge spam a little too over the top, in an effort to reduce their combat efficiency

A dodge is firstmost a defensive tool over anything else, and Mirage being able to capitalize on their dodge to deal damage is a part of their design, but it was getting abit crazy considering how offensively they are using it without reprecussions (heck, they still have Core Mesmer's Invul over the many evades they have)

no

[alain.1659]

Chrono gone, mirage is going down. So either anet is bringing a new elite spec on the table or core mesmer will be the most useful option among all. Limiting dodge is the worst idea I have ever seen but there are so many people that hate mesmers just because they cannot bother to learn to fight against them.There can be bandaid options for mirage, using infiltration runes, energy sigils, dodge food etc but at least the mirage cloak should be buffed if they are limiting the defense options like that.

[Kondor.2904]

@alain.1659 said:Chrono gone, mirage is going down. So either anet is bringing a new elite spec on the table or core mesmer will be the most useful option among all. Limiting dodge is the worst idea I have ever seen but there are so many people that hate mesmers just because they cannot bother to learn to fight against them.There can be bandaid options for mirage, using infiltration runes, energy sigils, dodge food etc but at least the mirage cloak should be buffed if they are limiting the defense options like that.

Not just mirage cloak, the jaunt nerfs should be revised as well, for example. Or rather properly optimise portal, so it's back to the meta game. If you can't fight, at least you will be able to rotate.

[Levetty.1279]

I have just realised that the new Greatsword trait competes with Empowered Illusions, so that's a double nerf to berserker damage.

[hash.8462]

I think they should at least swap Empowered Illusions with Dazzling, buy I suppose the heavy nerf was intentional.

[Genesis.5169]

I legit think we are witnessing the real time death of mirage as a viable sPvP build. I have no idea why any of us would go chrono since it doesnt have access to distortion and CS is is really had to use defensively in any form of pvp as you would have to already have the clones down and take damage on purpose or figure out your about to take alot of damage before you use it.

Which just leaves us with core...Side note now im kinda mad for having these expansions if none of my expansion specs are viable in a game mode i spend most of my time in thanks Anet.

Also making us chose between ambush or dodge like we have a ton of boons or aegis is a punch in a gut yeah we can move around and thats likely what we will do and if thats the case we don't get to contest points every mirages will fight off point of in the majority of games unless we are decaping alone.

[Mouse.7382]

@Genesis.5169 said:I legit think we are witnessing the real time death of mirage as a viable sPvP build. I no have why any of us would go chrono since it doesnt have access to distortion and CS is is really had to use defensively in any form of pvp as you would have to already have the clones down and take damage on purpose or figure out your about to take alot of damage before you use it.

Which just leaves us with core...Side note now im kinda mad for having these expansions if none of my expansion specs are viable in a game mode i spend most of my time in thanks Anet.

Also making us chose between ambush or dodge like we have a ton of boons or aegis is a punch in a gut yeah we can move around and thats likely what we will do and if thats the case we don't get to contest points every mirages will fight off point of in the majority of games unless we are decaping alone.

I feel exactly the same way. I know its early, but looking at ALL the class changes, I believe I may play another class in PvP, and just stick with my mirage for PvE. Chrono is clunky garbage....Mirage with 1 dodge, nope. I've tried repeatedly to harness the power of mirrors--but that is just not fun/effective in an PvP environment...and I'd rather play most anything else than a core GS mes.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Mouse.7382 core condi bunker build MIGHT be alright, with strong MIGHT. other then that core power.I dont see any other build be good in new meta

[Mouse.7382]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Mouse.7382 core condi bunker build MIGHT be alright, with strong MIGHT. other then that core power.I dont see any other build be good in new meta

fingers crossed for anything that will work. I do love my mesmer..and dont want him to just be active in PvE until (if), Anet fixes them.

[Quadox.7834]

Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

[CythaliaMare.9105]

Core Mirage is going to be the only way to play sadly, you choose mirage or chono you are at a complete disadvantage compared to every other class out there, and now a one endurance bar??? You got to be joking me, how long will it take for that thing to fill in combat after you ambush using it, oh wait you cant since you are not supposed to use your imaginary axes or amush skill to damage anymore according to them, just great. What a welcome new nerf to an already dead pvp class, I come back after what they did to axes and various other weapons I liked making builds I enjoyed unplayable and now they make it even WORSE!!!!!! if you play mirage now you are not a good player, just a person who wants to punish themselves. I will never play this class again until I see some d__m buff to this class that allows it to actually outplay thief or any other better class. God darsh this makes me incredibly angry to look at these new patch releases and always be disappointing, sticking to thief for now until they sort their ever changing philosophy out.

[Yasai.3549]

@Quadox.7834 said:Dont see how core power would work. No stun no mantra. Core condi, maybe.

Core would probably still run an oldschool Shatter build.

They still use Mantra of Distraction often for Power Locking when they setup their burst window.

Love how the game is regressing.

[Leonidrex.5649]

I think with mirage nerfs, people overlook the fact that we lost 50% damage if not more.Event without losing the dodger I dont think mirage would be good, let alone without it.p4 got 33% dmg nerf ( average other nerfs so fine )Sharper immages got nerfed by like 95%, compleatly GUTTED. <--- big part of damage.Clone generation went down BIG time.other classes lose 30% dmg and healing.mirage lost 50% dmg, 30% clone generation. 30% healing and dodge.