Game balance is bad, Necro is insane

Zexanima.7851 · March 2, 2020

While I can agree core necro is pretty strong right now, there is counter play. They are very weak to CC. If you're on necro against, say, warrior/FB in 2v2s you'll just got tossed around like a punching bag if you dont have a FB to give you stab. That being said it does need a nerf, specifically lich form autos and fear of death. I'm just hoping the whole profession doesn't get deleted because of some imbalance. It still needs to be able to soak damage and have ways to deal with being focused.

Widmo.3186 · March 2, 2020

@Nimon.7840 said:
@lare.5129 said:why we should worry if necro is insane?if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins.So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved.
Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care?

These last two sentences.Nice.

People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle.

Why chronomancer got nerfed, ppl should just adapted.Why sw/d weaver got nerfed, ppl should just adapted.Why s/p teef got nerfed, ppl should just adapted.Why FA got nerfed, ppl should just adapted.And so on, and so on.

I dont have any problem with killing necro, but that doesn't change the fact its not balanced atm. There's a difference between crying that you can't kill certain class and pointing out why that class is too strong. Best example is teef class, 99% of threads are just Q_Q about how they got killed and couldn't do anything without any explanation what should be changed and why.

shadowpass.4236 · March 2, 2020

@Zexanima.7851 said:While I can agree core necro is pretty strong right now, there is counter play. They are very weak to CC. If you're on necro against, say, warrior/FB in 2v2s you'll just got tossed around like a punching bag if you dont have a FB to give you stab. That being said it does need a nerf, specifically lich form autos and fear of death. I'm just hoping the whole profession doesn't get deleted because of some imbalance. It still needs to be able to soak damage and have ways to deal with being focused.

Core necros can get CC'd easily but:

CCs no longer deal any meaningful damage
You could stunlock one of them for 20 seconds and still not be able to kill them

NorthernRedStar.3054 · March 2, 2020

Necromancer main defence post waiting room.

You could be a potato, and still operate core necro / condi rev / FB just fine right now.

Zexanima.7851 · March 2, 2020

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@"Zexanima.7851" said:While I can agree core necro is pretty strong right now, there is counter play. They are very weak to CC. If you're on necro against, say, warrior/FB in 2v2s you'll just got tossed around like a punching bag if you dont have a FB to give you stab. That being said it does need a nerf, specifically lich form autos and fear of death. I'm just hoping the whole profession doesn't get deleted because of some imbalance. It still needs to be able to soak damage and have ways to deal with being focused.

Core necros can get CC'd easily but:

CCs no longer deal any meaningful damage
You could stunlock one of them for 20 seconds and still not be able to kill them

CC's are stronger than they were even with no damage. The "control" aspect has always been whats strong about it and with less stab going around it's easier to get value out of them. I've not had any trouble against core necro on warrior (unless they are being FB baby sit but thats a FB problem). I just interrupt all their important skills and shread through shroud as fast as possible to limit their health regen. Rev and FB can do similar. I've been running a projectile hate skill too if I don't feel like dealing with lich. Couple of reflects and they blow themselves up. I'm not saying they don't need to be adjusted because they do. They are just not as OP as everyone seems to think. Most people just haven't bothered to capitalize on their weaknesses. When they have a FB to cover those weaknesses though....but like I said that's an issue around FB. It also doesn't help with downstate being indirectly buffed, allowing necros to capitalize on their rez potential. That's also not a direct necro issue though but then needing to adjust down state to line up with the new changes.

Poledra Val.1490 · March 2, 2020

Core necro is incredibly strong at the moment there is no denying it and its absolutely god mode broken in a 2v2 scenario coupled with a FB (assuming the necro is even a half decent player) it simply wont get killed. Obviously needs some nerfs but saying that I dont want Anet to now start balancing the game revolving around 2v2's.

UNOwen.7132 · March 2, 2020

@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@GewRoo.4172 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"lare.5129" said:why we should worry if necro is insane?if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins.So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved.
Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care?

These last two sentences.Nice.

People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle.

If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself.And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses.

Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea).

Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary.

Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then.

Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags.

As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC.

Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg.Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still.Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong.

So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong.Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too.

Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere.

You want to deny that core nec was good?
You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn?
Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :)

Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro.

Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting.

If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against.

For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too.

Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :)Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation.

Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k

Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.>

Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro.

Hence why necro needs some small nerfs.

Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?)

Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them.

They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable.

They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior.

They really arent vulnerable to CC at all. Ignoring that they have 2 stunbreaks on low cooldowns, CC is as threatening as the damage you will take during it. A thief if he is CCd without a stunbreak is dead (and thieves stunbreaks are much longer cooldown). On the other hand, a Core Necro wont even lose half his life if he is CCd. Or anywhere close to it. Even in the unlikely case that you somehow manage to deplete his health bar, all thats going to do is activate Unholy Sanctuary and he still wont die. And nah, massive nerfs wont kill the class, the build is just

that

far out of line.

The shroud is icing on the cake really. They are nearly impossible to kill even without it. And no, the reason its broken is because they forgot to nerf bunker builds, and as it turns out Necro is the best of the surviving bunker builds. Necro still took a bunch of nerfs-

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Most have a long cd and Lich which is one of the more used ones has a 150 sec CD almost as long as summon FGS and well of power has 1 sec of stab, so yes it def got nerfed.

Also stab effects Knockback stuns kock in the air daze etc, so yes they are def vulnerable. Both core and reaper are both way more vulnerable now as we got our stab with higher cd than everyone else.

Most classes dont even have any real access to stability right now. The fact that Necro has them ontop of having good stunbreaks means that youre one of the least vulnerable CC classes even if we didnt get to the unkillable part.

Zephoid.4263 · March 2, 2020

@hotte in space.2158 said:
@Fantasylife.7981 said:Necro is ridiculous and lich form is out of control, Downstate in this game is a joke very unbalance.Every non-necro-player agrees with this

Necro player here. Strongly agree with this statement. I was hitting 8k litch form autos earlier. Completely bonkers. Even better on reaper since you can get quickness for a few secs with shroud and 100% crit with devastate defenses. Reaper is my counter to the core necro meta but countering necro with necro is a poor design.

Down state has been a problem for a while, especially with multiple necros. Last Rites+necros downstate heal on 1 meas they can pick themselves up fast even without assistance. With assistance, its almost instant until you get a few downs. Most ppl didn't notice too much because necros has so many counters before.

@hotte in space.2158 said:
@Fantasylife.7981 said:This new patch has brought a lot of problems where before at least if you pull the right dmg anyone could go down now you just take it and can't kill someone hard counters now Exist.Patience ! I am optimistic that dev-team will fix these problems.

Heres hoping.

Axl.8924 · March 2, 2020

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@GewRoo.4172 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:
@"lare.5129" said:why we should worry if necro is insane?if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins.So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved.
Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care?