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Mesmer needs buff

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Senqu.8054

Senqu.8054

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

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They should give Mirage 2 Dodges back, period.And then remove Infinite Horizon at the same time :^)

UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Senqu.8054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once really high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

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Senqu.8054

Senqu.8054

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Senqu.8054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Again, no. As I said, if that were true, you should have an answer. Yet suspiciously, while you always repeat that little phrase, you never seem to have an explanation. Almost as if you just repeated what you heard without ever thinking about the why, and didnt notice that the why disappeared, and the phrase became untrue.

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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Again, no. As I said, if that were true, you should have an answer. Yet suspiciously, while you always repeat that little phrase, you never seem to have an explanation. Almost as if you just repeated what you heard without ever thinking about the why, and didnt notice that the why disappeared, and the phrase became untrue.

The scenario you posit is so outlandish, that it requires no explanation. Anyone that has played this game for more than 100 hours, understands just how absurd you sound. All that's left is for you to wake up.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Again, no. As I said, if that were true, you should have an answer. Yet suspiciously, while you always repeat that little phrase, you never seem to have an explanation. Almost as if you just repeated what you heard without ever thinking about the why, and didnt notice that the why disappeared, and the phrase became untrue.

The scenario you posit is so outlandish, that it requires no explanation. Anyone that has played this game for more than 100 hours, understands just how absurd you sound. All that's left is for you to wake up.

The scenario I posit being ... a 1v1? How is a 1v1 "outlandish"? I think you went for the wrong excuse, try something else. Or actually try an answer the question, or admit that you have no answer.

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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Again, no. As I said, if that were true, you should have an answer. Yet suspiciously, while you always repeat that little phrase, you never seem to have an explanation. Almost as if you just repeated what you heard without ever thinking about the why, and didnt notice that the why disappeared, and the phrase became untrue.

The scenario you posit is so outlandish, that it requires no explanation. Anyone that has played this game for more than 100 hours, understands just how absurd you sound. All that's left is for you to wake up.

The scenario I posit being ... a 1v1? How is a 1v1 "outlandish"? I think you went for the wrong excuse, try something else. Or actually try an answer the question, or admit that you have no answer.

I think, I hit a language barrier here. Oh well.

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Senqu.8054

Senqu.8054

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking this

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Again, no. As I said, if that were true, you should have an answer. Yet suspiciously, while you always repeat that little phrase, you never seem to have an explanation. Almost as if you just repeated what you heard without ever thinking about the why, and didnt notice that the why disappeared, and the phrase became untrue.

The scenario you posit is so outlandish, that it requires no explanation. Anyone that has played this game for more than 100 hours, understands just how absurd you sound. All that's left is for you to wake up.

The scenario I posit being ... a 1v1? How is a 1v1 "outlandish"? I think you went for the wrong excuse, try something else. Or actually try an answer the question, or admit that you have no answer.

I think, I hit a language barrier here. Oh well.

"I have no answer but I really dont want to admit it, so Im going to try some stupid excuse to weasel myself out of admitting that he is right".

But let me just put it simple for you. When you compare thief vs Mesmer, Mesmer has:

  1. Higher burst damage. Thieves burst is 10k or below. Mesmers burst is 16k-19k. Mesmers is much higher.
  2. Higher sustained damage. Thief, sustained-damage wise, pretty much relies on its autoattacks, as most of its skills are poor usage of initiative, or would prevent them from swapping to shortbow and running away. Said autoattacks after a multitude of nerfs dont hit very hard anymore. Mesmers autoattacks hit for slightly less, but Mesmer has other skills they can use without locking themselves out of emergency escapes. Said skills do a lot of damage, and as a result Mesmers overall damage is higher.
  3. Much better CC lockdown. Thief, at least in the builds that are good right now, has 1 CC. A 1 second daze on Steal. Otherwise, it has no CC at all. Mesmer also has a 1 (or more, but usually 1) second Daze. However, it also has a knockback or a stun, and potentially up to 2 stuns more.
  4. Slightly better sustain. This one is simple, Thief has minor heals from either Escapists Fortitude or Leeching Venoms. Mesmer has minor heals from Regen. They are about the same. So the difference comes down to healing skills, in which case Mesmers healing skill has either the same healing for a lower cooldown, or about 1000 more healing for the same cooldown.
  5. Higher effective HP. Mesmer, even with the increased damage taken due to their lower armour rating, starts with a baseline extra 4000 HP.

Given these facts, why do you think Mesmer loses to thief?

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storm.3120

storm.3120

Posted
Posted

@Senqu.8054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D
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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Again, no. As I said, if that were true, you should have an answer. Yet suspiciously, while you always repeat that little phrase, you never seem to have an explanation. Almost as if you just repeated what you heard without ever thinking about the why, and didnt notice that the why disappeared, and the phrase became untrue.

The scenario you posit is so outlandish, that it requires no explanation. Anyone that has played this game for more than 100 hours, understands just how absurd you sound. All that's left is for you to wake up.

The scenario I posit being ... a 1v1? How is a 1v1 "outlandish"? I think you went for the wrong excuse, try something else. Or actually try an answer the question, or admit that you have no answer.

I think, I hit a language barrier here. Oh well.

"I have no answer but I really dont want to admit it, so Im going to try some stupid excuse to weasel myself out of admitting that he is right".

But let me just put it simple for you. When you compare thief vs Mesmer, Mesmer has:
  1. Higher burst damage. Thieves burst is 10k or below. Mesmers burst is 16k-19k. Mesmers is much higher.
  2. Higher sustained damage. Thief, sustained-damage wise, pretty much relies on its autoattacks, as most of its skills are poor usage of initiative, or would prevent them from swapping to shortbow and running away. Said autoattacks after a multitude of nerfs dont hit very hard anymore. Mesmers autoattacks hit for slightly less, but Mesmer has other skills they
    can
    use without locking themselves out of emergency escapes. Said skills do a lot of damage, and as a result Mesmers overall damage is higher.
  3. Much better CC lockdown. Thief, at least in the builds that are good right now, has 1 CC. A 1 second daze on Steal. Otherwise, it has no CC at all. Mesmer also has a 1 (or more, but usually 1) second Daze. However, it also has a knockback or a stun, and potentially up to 2 stuns more.
  4. Slightly better sustain. This one is simple, Thief has minor heals from either Escapists Fortitude or Leeching Venoms. Mesmer has minor heals from Regen. They are about the same. So the difference comes down to healing skills, in which case Mesmers healing skill has either the same healing for a lower cooldown, or about 1000 more healing for the same cooldown.
  5. Higher effective HP. Mesmer, even with the increased damage taken due to their lower armour rating, starts with a baseline extra 4000 HP.

Given these facts, why do you think Mesmer loses to thief?

I just can't believe you still can't see it.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there isnt one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Again, no. As I said, if that were true, you should have an answer. Yet suspiciously, while you always repeat that little phrase, you never seem to have an explanation. Almost as if you just repeated what you heard without ever thinking about the why, and didnt notice that the why disappeared, and the phrase became untrue.

The scenario you posit is so outlandish, that it requires no explanation. Anyone that has played this game for more than 100 hours, understands just how absurd you sound. All that's left is for you to wake up.

The scenario I posit being ... a 1v1? How is a 1v1 "outlandish"? I think you went for the wrong excuse, try something else. Or actually try an answer the question, or admit that you have no answer.

I think, I hit a language barrier here. Oh well.

"I have no answer but I really dont want to admit it, so Im going to try some stupid excuse to weasel myself out of admitting that he is right".

But let me just put it simple for you. When you compare thief vs Mesmer, Mesmer has:
  1. Higher burst damage. Thieves burst is 10k or below. Mesmers burst is 16k-19k. Mesmers is much higher.
  2. Higher sustained damage. Thief, sustained-damage wise, pretty much relies on its autoattacks, as most of its skills are poor usage of initiative, or would prevent them from swapping to shortbow and running away. Said autoattacks after a multitude of nerfs dont hit very hard anymore. Mesmers autoattacks hit for slightly less, but Mesmer has other skills they
    can
    use without locking themselves out of emergency escapes. Said skills do a lot of damage, and as a result Mesmers overall damage is higher.
  3. Much better CC lockdown. Thief, at least in the builds that are good right now, has 1 CC. A 1 second daze on Steal. Otherwise, it has no CC at all. Mesmer also has a 1 (or more, but usually 1) second Daze. However, it also has a knockback or a stun, and potentially up to 2 stuns more.
  4. Slightly better sustain. This one is simple, Thief has minor heals from either Escapists Fortitude or Leeching Venoms. Mesmer has minor heals from Regen. They are about the same. So the difference comes down to healing skills, in which case Mesmers healing skill has either the same healing for a lower cooldown, or about 1000 more healing for the same cooldown.
  5. Higher effective HP. Mesmer, even with the increased damage taken due to their lower armour rating, starts with a baseline extra 4000 HP.

Given these facts, why do you think Mesmer loses to thief?

I just can't believe you still can't see it.

"I still have no answer so Im going to act like the other guy isnt seeing something but not saying it because I have nothing I can say".

One last time. Either, A, point out why Mesmer loses, or B, admit that you are wrong and that Mesmer doesnt. Of course, given your incessant attempts to try and repeat that claim and your continued refusal to support it, not answering the question makes you choose B by default. Choose wisely.

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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

Lies are not an opinion. And facts arent either. What I said is the undeniable, certain truth. What he said was just a bunch of lies. Something Mesmer mains truly seem to love. Seriously, you guys need to lay off the RPing a bit, youre being overtaken by your characters.

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Virdo.1540

Virdo.1540

Posted
Posted

Tbh in my last 10rounds or so where i played pvp, ive seen some mesmers.yes they dont have their tons of sustain from their 2. dodge, but they are still an killing machine.

Just like they should be. Good supporters, very high damage but low(well lets say more than mediocre) sustain

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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

Lies are not an opinion. And facts arent either. What I said is the undeniable, certain truth. What he said was just a bunch of lies. Something Mesmer mains truly seem to love. Seriously, you guys need to lay off the RPing a bit, youre being overtaken by your characters.

Now you're being disrespectful to a whole group of the playerbase, putting them under common denominator. One might suggest you're biased against Mesmers. Slippery slope there, isn't it?

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

Lies are not an opinion. And facts arent either. What I said is the undeniable, certain truth. What he said was just a bunch of lies. Something Mesmer mains truly seem to love. Seriously, you guys need to lay off the RPing a bit, youre being overtaken by your characters.

Now you're being disrespectful to a whole group of the playerbase, putting them under common denominator. One might suggest you're biased against Mesmers. Slippery slope there, isn't it?

Just observations made from you guys. But no, Im not really biased against Mesmer, I used to play the class before I got bored of the oneshots. Close friend plays it. But somehow, they seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Also, I see you chose option B, admitting that Mesmer does in fact not lose against thief. Wasnt so hard, was it? Well, if you ever try to repeat that phrase again, Ill just refer back to this. Nice talk.

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ArlAlt.1630

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Posted

@Virdo.1540 said:Tbh in my last 10rounds or so where i played pvp, ive seen some mesmers.yes they dont have their tons of sustain from their 2. dodge, but they are still an killing machine.

Just like they should be. Good supporters, very high damage but low(well lets say more than mediocre) sustain

This, Mesmer damage is still there. But 2 years of prior nerfs, followed up by 1 endurance bar have relageted it to a glass cannon much in the same way Fresh Air Ele is. The difference being that Eles have other builds they can go for whereas Mesmer doesn't anymore.

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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

Lies are not an opinion. And facts arent either. What I said is the undeniable, certain truth. What he said was just a bunch of lies. Something Mesmer mains truly seem to love. Seriously, you guys need to lay off the RPing a bit, youre being overtaken by your characters.

Now you're being disrespectful to a whole group of the playerbase, putting them under common denominator. One might suggest you're biased against Mesmers. Slippery slope there, isn't it?

Just observations made from you guys. But no, Im not really biased against Mesmer, I used to play the class before I got bored of the oneshots. Close friend plays it. But somehow, they seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Also, I see you chose option B, admitting that Mesmer does in fact not lose against thief. Wasnt so hard, was it? Well, if you ever try to repeat that phrase again, Ill just refer back to this. Nice talk.

Where exactly did you see me state that? Now you're literally putting words in my mouth. You need to go splash some water on your face, cuz this is delusional.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

Lies are not an opinion. And facts arent either. What I said is the undeniable, certain truth. What he said was just a bunch of lies. Something Mesmer mains truly seem to love. Seriously, you guys need to lay off the RPing a bit, youre being overtaken by your characters.

Now you're being disrespectful to a whole group of the playerbase, putting them under common denominator. One might suggest you're biased against Mesmers. Slippery slope there, isn't it?

Just observations made from you guys. But no, Im not really biased against Mesmer, I used to play the class before I got bored of the oneshots. Close friend plays it. But somehow, they seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Also, I see you chose option B, admitting that Mesmer does in fact not lose against thief. Wasnt so hard, was it? Well, if you ever try to repeat that phrase again, Ill just refer back to this. Nice talk.

Where exactly did you see me state that? Now you're literally putting words in my mouth. You need to go splash some water on your face, cuz this is delusional.

"Either, A, point out why Mesmer loses, or B, admit that you are wrong and that Mesmer doesnt. Of course, given your incessant attempts to try and repeat that claim and your continued refusal to support it, not answering the question makes you choose B by default. Choose wisely.".I gave you a choice. Refusal to answer was one of the options, which selected B by default. You refused to answer. You chose B. Of course, if you wanted to not choose B, all you wouldve had to do is go for option A. But you refused to. So option B it is. Nice Talk.

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ArlAlt.1630

ArlAlt.1630

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

Lies are not an opinion. And facts arent either. What I said is the undeniable, certain truth. What he said was just a bunch of lies. Something Mesmer mains truly seem to love. Seriously, you guys need to lay off the RPing a bit, youre being overtaken by your characters.

Now you're being disrespectful to a whole group of the playerbase, putting them under common denominator. One might suggest you're biased against Mesmers. Slippery slope there, isn't it?

Just observations made from you guys. But no, Im not really biased against Mesmer, I used to play the class before I got bored of the oneshots. Close friend plays it. But somehow, they seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Also, I see you chose option B, admitting that Mesmer does in fact not lose against thief. Wasnt so hard, was it? Well, if you ever try to repeat that phrase again, Ill just refer back to this. Nice talk.

Where exactly did you see me state that? Now you're literally putting words in my mouth. You need to go splash some water on your face, cuz this is delusional.

"Either, A, point out why Mesmer loses, or B, admit that you are wrong and that Mesmer doesnt. Of course, given your incessant attempts to try and repeat that claim and your continued refusal to support it, not answering the question makes you choose B by default. Choose wisely.".I gave you a choice. Refusal to answer was one of the options, which selected B by default. You refused to answer. You chose B. Of course, if you wanted to not choose B, all you wouldve had to do is go for option A. But you refused to. So option B it is. Nice Talk.

Here's a better idea, why don't you point out why Thief loses against Mesmer? Funny how that works now, doesn't it?

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:That was
outside
of the burst combo. How exactly do you intend to blind the Mesmer you dont even know is there before they do the burst combo? Doesnt work, does it? Sides, even if you coul somehow, they just powerspike and get rid of blind, then hit with the GS + Mind Wrack anyway. Its lower damage than the proper burst, but still much higher than backstab.

The mass invis from nowhere + burst is a problem for thieves, yes, but that's how matchups against thieves work on mesmer since ever; if the mesmer oneshots, it's done; if the mesmer can't, he's a goner, the thief can leave and chase much better than a mesmer can.Now, I know oneshots are a problem -they made a big patch to remove oneshots, with the result that power mesmer had everything removed EXCEPT oneshots- but not nearly a question of balance for thieves, they already have enough of an easy time against mesmers anyway.

Thats the thing. If the Mesmer doesnt oneshot, he is still favoured.
Yes, the thief can run away much better, but that doesnt make the thief
win
the fight, now does it? Now, lets say the thief is stupid enough to fight. Well, the Mesmer has about 30% more effective HP, much higher damage, better CC lockdown (which isnt saying much tbh, Thief typicall has a daze and thats it),
very
slightly better sustain (healing about 1k extra every 25 seconds) and better defensive options. The thief has .... well he can run away better. Thats it though. Maybe if were talking condi thief, thatd be a different story, but then reflect would be a big deal, and I also have that sneaking suspicion you werent talking about condi thieves.

Well I think you lost all your reputation here. No matter how good your arguments are if you say the earth is flat you are not even worth listening / reading.

What, because I point out that something that "everybody knows" hasnt been true in years? Yes, thief used to counter Mesmer, including Power Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. Things changed. Thieves autoattacks were once
really
high damage, and as a result their DPS post-burst was higher. But their autoattacks got nerfed over and over, and right now they hit like wet noodles. The advantage thief had in the power matchup is gone, now their burst and DPS is lower. Against a class that also has much better CC, thats a death-sentence.

Im confusied. Should I think that you are a troll or just live in your own world by this point

No, you should realise that neither is the case. But please, if you think that Thief beats Mesmer, explain how a class with lower burst, lower damage, lower CC, lower health and (slightly) lower sustain totally beats Mesmer. If it were true, that should be trivially easy for you to answer, no?

Now you're just trolling, just stop.

Good I’m not the only one thinking thisThats obvious. Calling everyone liars regardless evidance being presented that he is wrong and he cant even calculate right. Know very little about his poor main class that is the worst in the game ! :D

Man you Mesmer mains really like lying. Lets start. "Regardless of evidence being presented". As I explained, that "evidence" was fabricated. Math has shown it, but given that you want to try and dismiss it as "me not being able to calculate right" (despite of course not pointing to any error in the calculation because you know there
isnt
one there), I even went in the game, tested it, and posted a screenshot. Guess what? The screenshot showed the exact same thing the math showed. That his "evidence" was fabricated. So that was a blatant lie.

"Knows very little about his poor main class", first ,I havent mained thief in a while. Im playing Core Engineer. Much more effective, much more fun. Second, I do know a lot about it. Enough to be able to instantly spot fabrications. You however clearly dont, given that you either are a shameless liar, or are so clueless about thief you legitimately believed his fabricated "evidence".

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You keep doing you.

Lies are not an opinion. And facts arent either. What I said is the undeniable, certain truth. What he said was just a bunch of lies. Something Mesmer mains truly seem to love. Seriously, you guys need to lay off the RPing a bit, youre being overtaken by your characters.

Now you're being disrespectful to a whole group of the playerbase, putting them under common denominator. One might suggest you're biased against Mesmers. Slippery slope there, isn't it?

Just observations made from you guys. But no, Im not really biased against Mesmer, I used to play the class before I got bored of the oneshots. Close friend plays it. But somehow, they seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Also, I see you chose option B, admitting that Mesmer does in fact not lose against thief. Wasnt so hard, was it? Well, if you ever try to repeat that phrase again, Ill just refer back to this. Nice talk.

Where exactly did you see me state that? Now you're literally putting words in my mouth. You need to go splash some water on your face, cuz this is delusional.

"Either, A, point out why Mesmer loses, or B, admit that you are wrong and that Mesmer doesnt. Of course, given your incessant attempts to try and repeat that claim and your continued refusal to support it, not answering the question makes you choose B by default. Choose wisely.".I gave you a choice. Refusal to answer was one of the options, which selected B by default. You refused to answer. You chose B. Of course, if you wanted to not choose B, all you wouldve had to do is go for option A. But you refused to. So option B it is. Nice Talk.

Here's a better idea, why don't you point out why Thief loses against Mesmer? Funny how that works now, doesn't it?

I .... I already did. That was the whole point of the list. "No U" doesnt really work in this scenario. But let me repeat myself in a Tl;Dr. Its because Mesmer does more damage, has higher burst, better CC lockdown, higher health and slightly better sustain.

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