Range + aoe + daze + poison + unblockable + spammable

[Eugchriss.2046]

aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

[PLS.4095]

So use it 2 times and u can"t use any offensive skill after, is this spam ?

Compare to Rev ? Just need to swap legend and here we go for the spam.

Nice try, L2P issu.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@"PLS.4095" said:So use it 2 times and u can"t use any offensive skill after, is this spam ?At least you can use it twice in a row. You can t even use call for anguish twice. And you still have utilities when you spam it , unlike rev.

Compare to Rev ? Just need to swap legend and here we go for the spam.If you swap legend you can't spam anything since it s not the same legend and every weapon's skills have cd so idk what you re talking about...but with thief, use roll for initiative and here we go for the spam.Nice try, tho.

[Airdive.2613]

35 energy out of 100 represents 35%, though.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Airdive.2613 said:35 energy out of 100 represents 35%, though.Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.So yes 35e from 100 equals 35% but 6 init from 25 equals 24%. So basically, in addition to be more stacked chocking gas consumes less. And don t forget that thief's initiatives is only for weapons skills, whilst rev's energy is for every fking single skill (except AA).I don't know what you were trying to proove here...

[Airdive.2613]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.

Yet revenants can start storing energy before the actual skirmish happens (i.e. before the thief starts to regain something in turn). It could be a good strategical decision not to "engage on sight", then.

So yes 35e from 100 equals 35% but 6 init from 25 equals 24%. So basically, in addition to be more stacked chocking gas consumes less.

Assuming both start fighting at full energy/initiative, the revenant is left with 65% energy to be spent on other skills and the thief at 50% (note that the actual initiative pool is 12 if not traited).If you can't do that, you could start with a different legend, spam its skills, swap to restore another 50 and use call to anguish right away.

And don t forget that thief's initiatives is only for weapons skills, whilst rev's energy is for every kitten single skill (except AA).

Yes, that's why two casts of choking gas in a row translate to 12 seconds of recharge (12 initiative spent), yet two casts of call to anguish translate to 6 seconds of recharge since revenants enjoy short cooldowns. Call to anguish is actually twice as spammable in realistic scenarios while choking gas can be either "used twice before running away" or "used once every six seconds for prolonged periods of time".

[UNOwen.7132]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:35 energy out of 100 represents 35%, though.Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.So yes 35e from 100 equals 35% but 6 init from 25 equals 24%. So basically, in addition to be more stacked chocking gas consumes less. And don t forget that thief's initiatives is only for weapons skills, whilst rev's energy is for every kitten single skill (except AA).I don't know what you were trying to proove here...

Wrong, actually. In 10 seconds, thief regenerates 6 initiative.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

It has the lengthiest of animations, on top of a massive cost. I can understand complaining about thieves, but this?

This I cannot comprehend.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

2 uses in a row, and then no uses for another 5 seconds, and then no uses for another 9 seconds is "spammable" for you? Nevermind the fact that the thief wont have access to any other skills if using choking gas, while the Rev still has their entire arsenal to go off of. Nevermind the fact that Choking Gas is 2 seconds of poison, while call to anguish is 6 seconds of torment, and nevermind the fact that Torment also hits harder. Even then, its no comparision, choking gas is bad right now when not used to deal with downstates (And even there, its worse than before). Why do you think Condi Rev is a top tier build, while chokebow is not even good enough to be a meme build right now?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lol just lol.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Lol just lol.

I know right.

[PLS.4095]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:So use it 2 times and u can"t use any offensive skill after, is this spam ?At least you can use it twice in a row. You can t even use call for anguish twice. And you still have utilities when you spam it , unlike rev.

Compare to Rev ? Just need to swap legend and here we go for the spam.If you swap legend you can't spam anything since it s not the same legend and every weapon's skills have cd so idk what you re talking about...but with thief, use roll for initiative and here we go for the spam.Nice try, tho.

Swap legend = new 50% energy6+6 = 12 , thief max ini = 15

Use ur brain plz.

[ArthurDent.9538]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Airdive.2613" said:35 energy out of 100 represents 35%, though.Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.So yes 35e from 100 equals 35% but 6 init from 25 equals 24%. So basically, in addition to be more stacked chocking gas consumes less. And don t forget that thief's initiatives is only for weapons skills, whilst rev's energy is for every kitten single skill (except AA).I don't know what you were trying to proove here...

Wrong, actually. In 10 seconds, thief regenerates

6

initiative.

This is completely false, initiative regenerates at a rate of 1 per second so you get 10 initiative per 10 seconds just as the wiki says:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/InitiativeOf course the wiki could be wrong and it often is however this is easily testable in game with a stop watch just drain all your initiative and you will see that it takes 12 seconds to regenerate back to full without trickery or 15 seconds with trickery. You've been spreading this misinformation in multiple threads but it is just wrong.

[UNOwen.7132]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Airdive.2613" said:35 energy out of 100 represents 35%, though.Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.So yes 35e from 100 equals 35% but 6 init from 25 equals 24%. So basically, in addition to be more stacked chocking gas consumes less. And don t forget that thief's initiatives is only for weapons skills, whilst rev's energy is for every kitten single skill (except AA).I don't know what you were trying to proove here...

Wrong, actually. In 10 seconds, thief regenerates

6

initiative.

This is completely false, initiative regenerates at a rate of 1 per second so you get 10 initiative per 10 seconds just as the wiki says:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

Of course the wiki could be wrong and it often is however this is easily testable in game with a stop watch just drain all your initiative and you will see that it takes 12 seconds to regenerate back to full without trickery or 15 seconds with trickery. You've been spreading this misinformation in multiple threads but it is just wrong.

You can go to the discussion page, and see people point out that the regen rate is 1 initiative every 1.67 seconds. It was never buffed, so it should still be that. Strangely enough though, you do seem to be right. Which is odd, because I had tested it about half a year ago, and it definitely was 1.67 seconds. An undocumented buff? Not sure. But yeah, its 1 per second now, so disregard what I said.

[Exedore.6320]

Unless it's paired with venoms, it's fine.

[LazySummer.2568]

The only thing i feel is OP about this is now basically all thief builds have the ability to interrupt channeled blocks without really giving up anything since sb is so good and used by most of the thieves. If i was a warrior main I would be very salty about this, and honestly it's quite a stupid change.

[UNOwen.7132]

@LazySummer.2568 said:The only thing i feel is OP about this is now basically all thief builds have the ability to interrupt channeled blocks without really giving up anything since sb is so good and used by most of the thieves. If i was a warrior main I would be very salty about this, and honestly it's quite a stupid change.

I mean, they give up their ability to actually do damage until they can swap back. Shortbow is a good weapon set, but only for utility. If youre fighting, its pretty bad.

[Bazsi.2734]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

Chaining Chocking Gas twice means no burst from that thief in the next 10 seconds, thats quite a hefty tradeoff. Revenant can just swap legends and apply some pressure that way, when thief empties the initiative bar, it's autattack time. If you lost a (team)fight because 2 easy to dodge daze, you're losing anyway. This is quite the nerf compared to how it used to be: pulsing daze turned into 1 initial well telegraphed daze. If the skill wouldn't be unblockable it would do absolutely nothing.So yeah, learn to live with it, because any nerfs to this skill would warrant an initiative cost reduction - which might result in another degenerate condition thief build emerging.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.

Yet revenants can start storing energy before the actual skirmish happens (i.e. before the thief starts to regain something in turn). It could be a good strategical decision not to "engage on sight", then.You are contradicting yourself. You need to engage fight some who to start storing energy. Yet you say "don t engage on sight". Unless your opponent lets you engage and run away without attacking you, this is unrealistically possible.@Airdive.2613 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.Assuming both start fighting at full energy/initiative, the revenant is left with 65% energy to be spent on other skills and the thief at 50% (note that the actual initiative pool is 12 if not traited).If you can't do that, you could start with a different legend, spam its skills, swap to restore another 50 and use call to anguish right away.

Yes, you can. But you re still left with 70% (20% + 5% per sec) for 10 secs for all utilities and the other weapon set. Knowing that except face of darkness, all stunbreak cost 35+. Just dont get stun and you ll be fine...

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:Without any actives skills, it takes 10 secs to get form 50e to 100e. In 10 secs, thief regain 10 ini.

Yes, that's why two casts of choking gas in a row translate to 12 seconds of recharge (12 initiative spent), yet two casts of call to anguish translate to 6 seconds of recharge since revenants enjoy short cooldowns. Call to anguish is actually twice as spammable in realistic scenarios while choking gas can be either "used twice before running away" or "used once every six seconds for prolonged periods of time".Assuming you have enough energy, two cast of call of anguish translates to 20 secs of recharge (5e per sec + 3sec cd). So I don t know where you get your 6 seconds from.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

Nevermind the fact that the thief wont have access to any other skills if using choking gas, while the Rev still has their entire arsenal to go off of.You still have utilities, like daggerstorm, shadowstep@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

nevermind the fact that Torment also hits harder.I don t know where you got this one from but I have made a test with the wiki formula. Here is the result:

https://imgur.com/a/XUb7g3W

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

Why do you think Condi Rev is a top tier build, while chokebow is not even good enough to be a meme build right now?And finally, I am not talking about a build, I am talking about a specific skill.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@PLS.4095 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@PLS.4095 said:So use it 2 times and u can"t use any offensive skill after, is this spam ?At least you can use it twice in a row. You can t even use call for anguish twice. And you still have utilities when you spam it , unlike rev.

Compare to Rev ? Just need to swap legend and here we go for the spam.If you swap legend you can't spam anything since it s not the same legend and every weapon's skills have cd so idk what you re talking about...but with thief, use roll for initiative and here we go for the spam.Nice try, tho.

Swap legend = new 50% energy6+6 = 12 , thief max ini = 15

Use ur brain plz.You do know that call for anguish is not a weapon skill but instead is locked to mallyx, right?If so, Use ur brain plz.

[Airdive.2613]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:

You are contradicting yourself. You need to engage fight some who to start storing energy. Yet you say "don t engage on sight". Unless your opponent lets you engage and run away without attacking you, this is unrealistically possible.

1. You don't necessarily have to engage said thief, it could be any target.
2. You can hit once from range, then wait for your energy generation.

Assuming you have enough energy, two cast of call of anguish translates to 20 secs of recharge (5e per sec + 3sec cd). So I don t know where you get your 6 seconds from.

Starting at 100 energy, you literally can use call to anguish 4 times in 12 seconds before your energy depletes, just like choking gas; but as a revenant you can also follow up with a legend swap and continue fighting.

[Eugchriss.2046]

And to all those saying it s pretty bad rn, I kind of agree because this true in 1v1 or 2v2 scenario. But in 3v3 and more, I can assure you that the abillty to daze quite often 3 and more ennemies at the same time is broken asf, on top of giving a near perma -33% heal.0 risk to due range, 100% reward due to aoe + unblockable.

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

If you lost a (team)fight because *2 easy to dodge daze, you're losing anyway.It s funny that there is only two dodges. You can t dodge everything. Even if you dodge those 2, thief's mate will finish you off. That's exactely why is broken in team fight. Either you dodge or not you re in bad position.

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:aka Chocking gas.And before Thief mains: "yeah but it cost 6 ini out of 15 ". This represents 40%, so they re is 60% left for 3 other skills (including chocking gas again).Now, let's compare call for anguish: mid-range + pull + chill (+ torment if traited). 35e out of 50 represents 70% and only leaves 30% for 8 other skills. (including heal just in case...)The combination of aoe + unblockable and daze + unblockable should not exist because it promotes lazy gameplay, even more when it can be spammed and used from range.Dear Anet, there is something to be looked at here.

This is quite the nerf compared to how it used to be: pulsing daze turned into 1 initial well telegraphed daze.I am not sure about that. Pulsing daze was if only if, the ennemy already had 5+ stacks of poison. There was a condition to actually daze someone. Now it doesnt matter, 5+ stack or not, blocked or not you get daze. That's kind of a buff to me.

[Xca.9721]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:

You are contradicting yourself. You need to engage fight some who to start storing energy. Yet you say "don t engage on sight". Unless your opponent lets you engage and run away without attacking you, this is unrealistically possible.

1. You don't necessarily have to engage said thief, it could be any target.
2. You can hit once from range, then wait for your energy generation.

Assuming you have enough energy, two cast of call of anguish translates to 20 secs of recharge (5e per sec + 3sec cd). So I don t know where you get your 6 seconds from.

Starting at 100 energy, you literally can use call to anguish 4 times in 12 seconds before your energy depletes, just like choking gas; but as a revenant you can also follow up with a legend swap and continue fighting.

Rev is very rarely at 100 energy since everything (weapon skills and legend skills) costs energy. Using all of it just for an AoE CC would be retarded.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Highlie.7641 said:I use an ability two times in a row, then am forced to auto attack. meanwhile you press 1-2-3-4-5 swap 1-2-3-4-5 swap and yet where the ones spamming. this player base is a jokeThe real joke is people who can t (or don't want to) make the difference between skill spamming and skill rotating.