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I have an interesting suggestion (Change stealth)

Flee.5602

By Flee.5602
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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@XenesisII.1540 said:Remove access to dodge while in stealth.

Again, terrible idea. I dont know why people when trying to fix the legitimate issues stealth has, try to hit everything except the actual issue stealth has. This nerf would only nerf the already severely underperforming in-combat stealth while keeping out of combat stealth completely intact.

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Sobx.1758
Sobx.1758

100% true, that's why the most powerful fictional entities, superheroes 'and others' totally abuse stealth all the time as their OP ability. (??)You seem to be a little biased with your example here,

Sobx.1758
Sobx.1758

100% true, that's why the most powerful fictional entities, superheroes 'and others' totally abuse stealth all the time as their OP ability. (??)You seem to be a little biased with your example here,

Sobx.1758
Sobx.1758

100% true, that's why the most powerful fictional entities, superheroes 'and others' totally abuse stealth all the time as their OP ability. (??)You seem to be a little biased with your example here,

Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

Posted
Posted

100% true, that's why the most powerful fictional entities, superheroes 'and others' totally abuse stealth all the time as their OP ability. (??)You seem to be a little biased with your example here, buddy -even if we conveniently "forget" that the ring did much more than that btw. :D
  • Detargetting. I can't target him/her, I can't hit him/her.

If stealth didn't detarget, what exactly would be the point of it? Also channeled/aoe skills still finish casting/deal dmg.

Here is my second biggest beef with stealth:
  • Massive damage from nowhere.

Backstab? Maybe. But the last time I got hit with a backstab, it was slightly over 5k dmg crit when I was in full berk. lmao.And still the biggest (I dare say "only") problem here is the duration of stealth, not the stealth mechanic itself.

You can avoid any channeling effects , with a simple dodge .And when he cannot target you , he cannot recast a channeling effect .

Most channeled effects actually last so long that a single dodge wont save you. Rapid Fire is a
loooong
channel. Itll continue through a dodge.

Whit berseker gear + a signet that offer 560 attack power (almost 40% of your gear) , you can deal 7/8k

On a squishy target, but yes. 7/8k is not that much. I can hit that in an AoE with Grenade Barrage on my Core Engineer. Dont even need setup for it. Also, on any target that isnt glass, itll be closer to 5k.

Stealth as problematic mechanic , where like Smite + WoW + Elder Scrolls , should reveal the player on getting damage

That is a
terrible
idea. Stealths problem is that its to good when used out of combat, i.e. when the enemy is ganking you and oneshotting you. In-combat, stealth is already really weak. Your suggestion would turn in-combat stealth from weak to absolutely unusable, while out of combat stealth remains practically untouched.

The majority of the Rangers have quickness casted before they started rapid-fire.One dodge will clear most of the damage .If they dont .... you will take 2 remaining shots for 2,5-3k total damage . Or punish his for believing that aslong he casted the channeling spell , he is safe

Even then it will cover a dodge. Also you would be eating so much damage its not funny. And no, you wont be able to "punish" the soulbeast. Youre at best half health and in Maul kill range.

How again is weak ?You can use the stealth a a single dodge to reposition yourself in 480 yards around your target , in various angles (he is northwest of you 300 yards ...or he is south 480 comeing to Backstab you)

First of all, dodge moves you
300
units, not 480. Dash moves you 450, but that requires Daredevil. Second, you had to waste a dash to prevent the opponent from fully tracking you, and you left yourself wide open. And even then, what next? Your opponent is gonna start cleaving or throwing out AoEs under his feet. Youre not gonna be able to approach them to hit them without taking a lot of damage. And no matter how you stealth up, there is no way for you to stealth up without, even with a dodge, putting yourself in a cone area. The enemy can just prevent you from backstabing him.

The victim will simply panic and waste attacks left and right , to ''hit you''

Nah Id just start cleaving with my autos, and once a hit connects, then Id follow up with actual skills. Simple, reliably, and hugely punishes stealth.

Whatever way we try to nerf Stealth , there will be the problem where ''Steal'' teleport you to your target + stealth has not movement penalty for the victim to run away from perma stealth .

If you want to run away from a thief (which Im not sure why you would want to, just fight them and theyll run away from you), then either youre not Warrior, in which case you cant (but also wouldnt be able to run away from Warrior), or youre Warrior, in which case you peace out.

Steal is a integrade part of thief kit , so it will be never removed . The only option is : If the target survive > kite and dont allow any stealth character to restealth and do the ''where the stealth guy again!+ prepere for burst round 2 !''' game

Its really not though. For most of the past few years, Thieves barely used stealth. Specifically, blinding powder. Thats it. No other form of stealth. Stealth only started being used by out of stealth burst builds, and they still avoid stealthing up in-combat because of how bad it is. Your "option" isnt an option, it specifically does absolutely
nothing
to how stealth is currently used, and kills the
already underperforming
in-combat stealth usage. The only actual option is to nerf out of combat stealth (max duration, promitiy indicator, reduced damage after X seconds in stealth, whatever), and
buff
in-combat stealth until its actually usable.

a) While he belives that he is immortal casting Rapid Fire you can attack him .If not ...then use a second dodge and the third one for Maul .

Yeah sure, try to fight back while his Rapidfire is trained on you. Good luck surviving the 12k+ damage headed your way. And sure, you can use 2 dodges on Rapid Fire and one on Maul and then ... you still get hit by Worldly Impact and die. Or really just autoattacked down. The Rangers damage is quite a lot higher than yours.

b) its 300 and you easy cover few paces with simply moving.If he start cleaing/doing spells , he is wasting spells .Backstabing Works from sides too (from your left ear > Back> right ear) .Its 180 degree of your character .

You get a burst of 300, and then you have to move. But the opponent can even move
during
the dodge. They will be able to keep you in a cone, and funnel you in. And no, he is only wasting spells if he isnt hitting you, and even then he isnt because that forces you to preemptively waste a dodge. And yes, backstabbing works in a 180° half-circle. Youre however in a cone in front of them. There is no way to get to the backstab spot without being cleaved down.

There is no sequnese of attacks that will do CONSTADLY for 12K and last for 1 whole min , prevending him from getting backstab .He will put a aoe > you get 3 stack of bleed + 1 poison > you aattack him

I dont need to hit for 12k. I just need to do decent damage. A single backstab wont ever kill me, and in-combat stealth wont even allow him to get a back backstab without wasting a shadowstep.

c) You will hit him with your autos?From which direction ?Is he already behind you or on your left ?

He is in a cone in front of me. I dont know where exactly, but I dont need to. He has no way to move behind me or to the left of me without burning a shadowstep, or getting cleaved down. Hell in the latter case I can just dodge backwards and he wont even hit one.

d) Movement speed reduction exist, so stealth gives a counterplay . Its your fault if you stay still or went the same direction as the thief went

Are you ... arguing against yourself? I have no idea. Again, the problem with stealth is being hit by an attack from a class you didnt
even know was there
.

e) I am sorry , but you lack immagination and you dont know how stealth is preety good .Having something that dont give any indication, if your spell hit of not the target , or if the enemy is near or far from you , Or where is coming , is something you cannot simply fathom

I know stealth is good
out
of combat. I also know its bad
in
combat. Also, actually you do get indication if your spell hit or not (autoattacks progress to the next chain, on X effects get used up, and unless its changed a while back, you still get the damage in the combat log. Dont actually know that part, I dont play with the combat log on because the condi ticks annoy me. Since you know where the thief was as he stealthed, you can actually tell how far away he is based on whether you hit him, or not. He can only move so far. In-combat, stealth is bad because it just lets the enemy hit you for free damage while you cannot fight back.

a) Using single dodge you can avoid 80% of the damage of the Rapid FireYou dont have Black Powder or SDaze from the offpistol/other weapon to avoid any Maul+ World Implact ?

You cannot. Best you can do is 60%, if its with Quickness. If its without Quickness, a single Dodge roll will only dodge 30%. 40% alone is more than enough. And, you want to use black Powder after going into stealth with ... what initiative? You likely just used it to stealth up. But even then, lets say you do that. Youre
still
at a disadvantage.

b) Ok ...i dodge in the same direction the theif dodge .If he on front of my ? Has he already moved more paces and he is behind me ?Did he dodge roll again , to avoid my burst and he is on my left ?

I never said I dodged. And I will repeat myself only this once more. I know the thief is in a cone in front of me. Here is how it works. The thief stealths up. There is no way to stealth up without landing a good distance away from me other than black powder + Heartseeker (And in that case I just dodge backwards on the heartseeker and walk backwards while cleaving). So, he is in that cone. And Im moving away from him. From this position he
cannot
be anywhere other than in front of me. He will
never
be to the left of me, to the right of me, or behind me. ONLY in front of me.

c) You dont need to use shadowstep .... use Steal its free... or his character has 180 degree cone to be Backstabed . Plenty of oprotunities

No you do need to use shadowstep. Here is what happens if you steal. You steal. I get dazed, know the thief is there, dodge backwards, and continue cleaving as the daze runs out. You wasted your steal and achieved nothing, unable to get a backstab, and merely a fronstab. Or even worse, I have stability, I ignore the daze, hit you with cleave, and then dodge backwards, getting extra damage.

d) If there was a movement penalty, the victim could avoid Backstbed by any stealth character , regadles if the thief had 1 min stealth or 3 sec

Once again, I have no idea what youre talking about. Thief backstabs people who dont know the thief is there, and as a result show him their back. If they know the thief is there, they can prevent him from getting a back backstab.

e) Not every class has the attack power or Axe Warriors to Chop-Chop and scare the thief .How much damage the thief will take from auto before he start attacking ? 3k or 4k ?Are you going to waste aoe spells , in order the thief might be on your back ? If you waste them how you will punish him later ?Normaly in other games ...if i hit the thief we would loose his stealth and wouldnt have the optotunity to Backstab me

Actually, every class does have more than enough power to hit the thief hard. And sure, lets say its 4k. Thats still 4k free damage on the thief, he was unable to backstab ,and he got
nothing
out of it. Also as I said, I dont "waste" AoE spells. I use them when I know the thief is close to force him to burn defenses, or I use free ones like Grenade Kit 1.

Actually, no. Normally in other games if you hit a stealthed character, the most you get is a brief outline. The only MMOs that have that are ones where stealth is
entirely
an out of combat things, and thats the very issue in the game in the first place.

To repeat myself. You want to ignore the actual problem with stealth, and nerf the part that is already
underpowered
. That makes no sense.

a) Theres traits that give Steal >Stealth . Such as Hidden Thief .You dont need to spent resources for that .If he hasnt Quickness , then 2 dodges will do the trick . Or simply OffPistol Daze > then use Steal (Hidden Thief)

Hidden Thief. Noone uses that trait. So, its a moot point. Also, in that case you just put yourself in cleave range while not being able to back backstab them. Not great, is it? Thats part of why noone picks hidden thief btw.

b) So you will go in the place where the theif went and did the black powder + Heartseeker combo ?And then what ? stay still and do aoes?120 yards is the range of auto attacks ... the thief can move in that distance its 0.3 sec , by simply walkingHe will let you , aoe him to death ? He wont dodge once ?By spamming auto attacks , you let open yourself to be Backstabed

Why would I go towards the thief? Im only interested in not letting him backstab. If he wants to run, he wants to run, that doesnt make him the 1v1, he just doesnt lose. My objective isnt to kill the thief, its to not lose the 1v1. So, what I do is I back away from the thief while cleaving. And no, you dont let yourself open to backstab at all. The most he can get is a frontstab, and that just aint worth it.

c)You dodge backwards while dazed and he dodged fordwards . so there is not distance between you .You move backwards , so you move in 50% speed , while he is coimmng towards you in 100%

If he wants to waste a dodge on that, his choice. Thing is, after the dodge I can attack again. If my cleave hits, I can dodge backwards again. Or use backwards mobility. Or drop an AoE on my point. Plenty of options, not much the thief can do.

d) If i wouldnt allow the theif to restealth , he wouldnt suprice me for a second time .That why stealth should break on damage , rather than waitng for the Thief to open on me for a second time

If he is stealthing up in-combat, he isnt surprising you. In fact, he is actually putting himself in danger. And no ,stealth absolutely shouldnt break on damage. At that point you can just delete stealth alltogether, and that would
still
be way better than your suggestion.

e) Yeah thats i am talking about :'' if you hit a stealthed character, the most you get is a brief outline''If i keep hittingthe Thief and dont allow him to go away from me , i can ''outline him'' for longerOr use Dots

"Outline" in this context is that you get his silhouette revealed for a split-second. The thief remains in stealth. You still cant target him. You just see his location. Its basically the thing we have right now with cleave and AoEs.

a)b) You move 50% if you trying to hide your back and slowly back awayIn stealth you dont know if he is already behind you or not , because you are slow .If you show your back he will Steal>Backstab you

You do. But that doesnt matter. He cant get to you without being hit by cleave and being revealed. And in fact I
do
know, short of shadowstep being used, that he isnt behind me. Because he has to move through me. And be hit by cleave.

c) You can dodge as many times you wantYou are wasting your survibility , and also moving 50% slower

See above: Doesnt matter. Besides, Im not wasting survivability. Im either dodging an attack he already launched, or matching his dodge/preemptively dodging a backstab.

d) You cannot kite him , because you are slow moving backwards

I dont need to kite him. I need to force him to take cleave damage to be able to possibly backstab me, and then fail anyway because I just dodge backwards while he took massive damage.

e) Yes , so attacking him i can see a Red dot... an outlineSo if i keep auto attacking him , he wont get on my BackThats i am talking aboutOr if i cast Dots +Chill on him from afar i can see his Red Dot on the ground

Thats
already the case right now
. You cleave him down. He cant get to your back. The outline would do practically nothing other than making you track him slightly more precisely. Also it wouldnt apply to DoTs. Obviously.

a) As a daredevil he would have 3 dodges , or a core thief can equip Feline Grace + Endless StaminaSo either way he will have an extra dodge to ain more distance

By that point his stealth wouldve run out. So, no, he doesnt have an extra dodge. You also forget that core D/P Thief doesnt run Acrobatics. So he wouldnt even
have
that option.

b) You move 50% slower . Whikl he is doing the dodge animation you can frely move , without worring if he attacks you.And when he dodges ends and start attack , you will dodge

As I said, doesnt matter. Slower or not, you create a scenario where he simply cant get behind you. Thats really all there is to it.

c) How much damage yourautos will do ?He cannnot dodge them ?

Enough, and not if wants to cross the distance with a dodge in the first place or leave himself extremely vulnerable post-reveal. Thats the beauty of it. When the thief stealths up in combat, he gives you the advantage for free.

d)You cleave and you dont know if you hit him or where he isEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH why dots shouldnt aply to it ?As theif you have otpion to remove Dots !!!!

Actually you do know that you hit him (autoattack swaps to the next chain after all) and roughly where he is. And because that would break the whole thing. I mean, frankly I dont think an outline is a good idea as is, in-combat stealth needs
buffs
, not nerfs.

Well, this is getting tiresome.

a) He would run out of stealth because Steal put you into range .He moves 50% slower , so if both have 2 dodges the offender/whoever moves faster, always win

No, he would run out of stealth because dodges take a while, and stealth doesnt last that long. And no, you wont win because youre getting cleaved in the face and unable to backstab.

b) He is slower , you will get on his back

Not without getting a faceful of cleave. And even then, he dodges backwards. You
won't
get behind him. Simple as that.

c) With steal , you will right in his face , he doesnt have an space tooperate

In his face, not behind him. Your backstab wont backstab. His cleave will cleave. Youre taking a chunk of damage, and then he dodges backwards and you still dont get to backstab.

e) auto attacks have 120 yards radium , he might comming from your left

Not an option. Hed have to curve around heavily to do that, and his stealth wont last long enough.

WAIT A @!!!# SEC , YOU SAID ABOUT THE OUTLINER THAT OTHER GAMES HAVE .......

Yes. Most of them dont get triggered by DoTs.

a) If he cleaves i have a chance to go in this Back ... I always win because i move faster .Even if i dont run 100 yards to reach his back , i can run 50yards and go for the sides (which count as Backstab)

You would. But you dont. Here is how it goes. You go within cleave range. Now at this point he has half a second before you catch up to him, and a bit more until youre at his back. So he hits you, and dodges backwards. You take damage, and fail to get in range. Also, moving to the side doesnt work because you need to move
more distance
for that. Remember, 180°. His back is actually faster than the sides.

b) Is any problem with your maths here ?You 100% speedHe 50%Both 2 dodgesYou will get on his back

No, but there is a problem with your understanding. You have 100% speed. He has 50% speed. You try to move in range. You get cleaved. He dodges backwards. You fail to reach the back. You try to dodge forwards, he does the same, then again. Your stealth runs out, you cant backstab. You fail to reach the back. You mightve noticed something missing here. The version where you reach his back. Thats because it doesnt exist. No matter what, the backstab will fail.

c) The defender dont know you are there , when you use Steal .He immagine you , you are 1200 range away

No actually he knows you are. Either he is dazed, in which case he knows youre there. Or you get hit by his cleave, in which case he knows youre there. There is no version where he doesnt know youre there.

d)Steal or Shadowstep , he doesnt know you exist or where you are

We're talking about in-combat stealth here, not out of combat stealth. Of course he knows you are there, and he knows your general location. In case of Shadowstep, yeah, you get a backstab, but you had to use Shadowstep. Thats not good for you either.

In WoW and Elder scroll , any damage (even dots) break the stealth

And WoW and Elder Scrolls stealth is a problem. As its out of combat stealth leading to cheesy surprise burst you cant really react to. Its also useless in-combat. Thats not what should be done. In fact, we need to do the
opposite
of WoW and Elder Scrolls. Out of combat stealth should be nerfed, and in-combat stealth
buffed
.

a) You dont have to travel extra distance .....You can stay inside his body , like a half anatomy doll . Behind the eyelobes , half his skull counts as Back-stableYou Steal >He attacks> You dodge > Uncatchable traits activate
> He is slowed >Backstab or Sidestab

You do, your model has to be within a 180° angle behind their model. Within you dont count at all. Also, there are no stealth builds running uncatchable. Hell there are barely
any
thief builds running uncatchable.

b) You dont have to go in the Back ... or use
to slow him down

Same answer as above, yes you do, no noone uses uncatchable.

c) The only way he is dazed is you took the trait that Daze and not the Quick Pockets (Gain initiative on swapping weapons while in combat)

.... uh, yeah. People use Sleight of Hand. Noone uses Quick Pockets. Im starting to think you havent even seen anyone play thief.

d) Again we come in rounds : Many games are moving away from GW2 stealth . Even Smite Loki has the same stealth and will be altered to a Outliner -see for some minisec each time he is attacked

No, actually, theyre all moving
towards
GW2 stealth. What people are moving away from is WoW type stealth. Thing is, they dont have things like cleave or on-hit traits to keep track of enemies. As such, they utilise outlines to make up for what GW2 inherently has.

a) There are theif that can always reach their target to do a proper Backstab .But if your problem that you cannot reachyour target , you can use that trait :PThe180 degree character doesnt start outside ... but from his axis that starts in his skull

From in-combat stealth? There arent. Mostly because no thief is going to go for in-combat stealth backstabs. Its a terrible idea. You go stealth up out of combat, try to burst them, and if they live you just disengage.

b) Better ujse, because it seem you have some problem , catching upcharacter that move 50% slower

Funny you think Im the thief and not the opponent. Besides, as I have explained multiple times (and I wont explain one more time), its not about catching up. Its about the fact that the thief will not be able to reach the back without being noticed by cleave, and allowing the enemy to just dodge backwards. Or to put it simple, what stealth does is let your opponent get in free damage while you are unable to fight back. Thats why in-combat stealth is bad, and why you dont use it.

c) Fews answers above you said , that Hartseeker +Black Powder combo comsume , alot ammount of innactiveSo yeah i go in circles too:P

I have no idea what youre trying to say here.

d) All are moving away from GW2 stealthEither they have mobility debufs , or break on damage or get outlines

Nope, towards GW2 stealth.
None
use the first 2 anymore. Thats the WoW method and its
bad
. Like, incredibly bad. Stealth being broken on stealth is incredibly terrible design. The outlines are used sometimes (only sometimes though, plenty of games dont even have them), and as Ive explained, theyre used because the things GW2 inherently has dont work for those games. Or in simpler terms, GW2 effectively has outlines already. Theyre just not outlines per se.

So, just to leave this off once and for all. Out of combat stealth is too good. In combat stealth is too bad. You are trying to leave out of combat stealth alone while nerfing in combat stealth. Thats stupid. The opposite should be done. Nerf out of combat stealth,
buff
in combat stealth.

a) This why we need an outliner -track the thief .If Theif dont kill his target , then the victim have a chance to track him and have a more balanced 1v1 , rather than playing ''guess where the thief will come from''

You can already track the thief. Besides, while the 1v1 isnt balanced, its because the Thief
loses
that 1v1, especially if he is a stealth build. Your suggestion to nerf it would make it even more unbalanced.

b) Again you can stealth and change directionsThe victim will move towards the direction your heartseeker was aimedYou simply dodge and d o slighty curve toward him and try to hit his sides

You would need to take a massive detour, and your stealth would run out before you could. Its not an option, plain and simple.

c) If you scroll up , in the part when i told you can use Hidden Thief , youtold me that no1 uses that , and most use Hartseeker +Black Powder combo for stealth . And that consume a huge amount of your Thief resources .If you have some many problems you can use Quick Pockets , rather than a silly Daze

That "silly daze" is a very important skill. Besides, youre using shortbow on the other hand. So you cant even use Quick pockets.

d) I am trying to implant our original idea ... an outliner... a ghost .... a blood-red circle on the ground

And Im saying its rather redundant.

a) You said other games and in your oppening post , that there should be some outliner , a mark on the ground?Why you are doing an 180 of that ?We both agreed that oppenners , such as Steal+Backstab first strike are unvoidable . You cannot remove them so the oppening stealth will be always there ...and the one left to do is :If the target survives ...he will not let the thief do to him the same

b) Its not a detour, when the victim is comming to you ...or moving backwards at 50% speed

c) If you use Heartseeker + Blackpowder , you will need to gain Thief resources back , to do 2 xinflitrators aorrow...

d) Its notredudunt when other games are doing it ... You are trying to protect the stealtrh that dont have any drawback from even a single game ...Thats prety bad, for a guy that uses Maths and logic and cannot see it :P

edit: Common we are the same .... we go into circles until the victim is exausted , with theoritical ''problems'' :PThese kind of ppl , i am getting attracted to :PNow immagine that in 2013 , with x100 person on the forums doing the same ... ughhh the deep hate growing ...

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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Posted

100% true, that's why the most powerful fictional entities, superheroes 'and others' totally abuse stealth all the time as their OP ability. (??)You seem to be a little biased with your example here, buddy -even if we conveniently "forget" that the ring did much more than that btw. :D
  • Detargetting. I can't target him/her, I can't hit him/her.

If stealth didn't detarget, what exactly would be the point of it? Also channeled/aoe skills still finish casting/deal dmg.

Here is my second biggest beef with stealth:
  • Massive damage from nowhere.

Backstab? Maybe. But the last time I got hit with a backstab, it was slightly over 5k dmg crit when I was in full berk. lmao.And still the biggest (I dare say "only") problem here is the duration of stealth, not the stealth mechanic itself.

You can avoid any channeling effects , with a simple dodge .And when he cannot target you , he cannot recast a channeling effect .

Most channeled effects actually last so long that a single dodge wont save you. Rapid Fire is a
loooong
channel. Itll continue through a dodge.

Whit berseker gear + a signet that offer 560 attack power (almost 40% of your gear) , you can deal 7/8k

On a squishy target, but yes. 7/8k is not that much. I can hit that in an AoE with Grenade Barrage on my Core Engineer. Dont even need setup for it. Also, on any target that isnt glass, itll be closer to 5k.

Stealth as problematic mechanic , where like Smite + WoW + Elder Scrolls , should reveal the player on getting damage

That is a
terrible
idea. Stealths problem is that its to good when used out of combat, i.e. when the enemy is ganking you and oneshotting you. In-combat, stealth is already really weak. Your suggestion would turn in-combat stealth from weak to absolutely unusable, while out of combat stealth remains practically untouched.

The majority of the Rangers have quickness casted before they started rapid-fire.One dodge will clear most of the damage .If they dont .... you will take 2 remaining shots for 2,5-3k total damage . Or punish his for believing that aslong he casted the channeling spell , he is safe

Even then it will cover a dodge. Also you would be eating so much damage its not funny. And no, you wont be able to "punish" the soulbeast. Youre at best half health and in Maul kill range.

How again is weak ?You can use the stealth a a single dodge to reposition yourself in 480 yards around your target , in various angles (he is northwest of you 300 yards ...or he is south 480 comeing to Backstab you)

First of all, dodge moves you
300
units, not 480. Dash moves you 450, but that requires Daredevil. Second, you had to waste a dash to prevent the opponent from fully tracking you, and you left yourself wide open. And even then, what next? Your opponent is gonna start cleaving or throwing out AoEs under his feet. Youre not gonna be able to approach them to hit them without taking a lot of damage. And no matter how you stealth up, there is no way for you to stealth up without, even with a dodge, putting yourself in a cone area. The enemy can just prevent you from backstabing him.

The victim will simply panic and waste attacks left and right , to ''hit you''

Nah Id just start cleaving with my autos, and once a hit connects, then Id follow up with actual skills. Simple, reliably, and hugely punishes stealth.

Whatever way we try to nerf Stealth , there will be the problem where ''Steal'' teleport you to your target + stealth has not movement penalty for the victim to run away from perma stealth .

If you want to run away from a thief (which Im not sure why you would want to, just fight them and theyll run away from you), then either youre not Warrior, in which case you cant (but also wouldnt be able to run away from Warrior), or youre Warrior, in which case you peace out.

Steal is a integrade part of thief kit , so it will be never removed . The only option is : If the target survive > kite and dont allow any stealth character to restealth and do the ''where the stealth guy again!+ prepere for burst round 2 !''' game

Its really not though. For most of the past few years, Thieves barely used stealth. Specifically, blinding powder. Thats it. No other form of stealth. Stealth only started being used by out of stealth burst builds, and they still avoid stealthing up in-combat because of how bad it is. Your "option" isnt an option, it specifically does absolutely
nothing
to how stealth is currently used, and kills the
already underperforming
in-combat stealth usage. The only actual option is to nerf out of combat stealth (max duration, promitiy indicator, reduced damage after X seconds in stealth, whatever), and
buff
in-combat stealth until its actually usable.

a) While he belives that he is immortal casting Rapid Fire you can attack him .If not ...then use a second dodge and the third one for Maul .

Yeah sure, try to fight back while his Rapidfire is trained on you. Good luck surviving the 12k+ damage headed your way. And sure, you can use 2 dodges on Rapid Fire and one on Maul and then ... you still get hit by Worldly Impact and die. Or really just autoattacked down. The Rangers damage is quite a lot higher than yours.

b) its 300 and you easy cover few paces with simply moving.If he start cleaing/doing spells , he is wasting spells .Backstabing Works from sides too (from your left ear > Back> right ear) .Its 180 degree of your character .

You get a burst of 300, and then you have to move. But the opponent can even move
during
the dodge. They will be able to keep you in a cone, and funnel you in. And no, he is only wasting spells if he isnt hitting you, and even then he isnt because that forces you to preemptively waste a dodge. And yes, backstabbing works in a 180° half-circle. Youre however in a cone in front of them. There is no way to get to the backstab spot without being cleaved down.

There is no sequnese of attacks that will do CONSTADLY for 12K and last for 1 whole min , prevending him from getting backstab .He will put a aoe > you get 3 stack of bleed + 1 poison > you aattack him

I dont need to hit for 12k. I just need to do decent damage. A single backstab wont ever kill me, and in-combat stealth wont even allow him to get a back backstab without wasting a shadowstep.

c) You will hit him with your autos?From which direction ?Is he already behind you or on your left ?

He is in a cone in front of me. I dont know where exactly, but I dont need to. He has no way to move behind me or to the left of me without burning a shadowstep, or getting cleaved down. Hell in the latter case I can just dodge backwards and he wont even hit one.

d) Movement speed reduction exist, so stealth gives a counterplay . Its your fault if you stay still or went the same direction as the thief went

Are you ... arguing against yourself? I have no idea. Again, the problem with stealth is being hit by an attack from a class you didnt
even know was there
.

e) I am sorry , but you lack immagination and you dont know how stealth is preety good .Having something that dont give any indication, if your spell hit of not the target , or if the enemy is near or far from you , Or where is coming , is something you cannot simply fathom

I know stealth is good
out
of combat. I also know its bad
in
combat. Also, actually you do get indication if your spell hit or not (autoattacks progress to the next chain, on X effects get used up, and unless its changed a while back, you still get the damage in the combat log. Dont actually know that part, I dont play with the combat log on because the condi ticks annoy me. Since you know where the thief was as he stealthed, you can actually tell how far away he is based on whether you hit him, or not. He can only move so far. In-combat, stealth is bad because it just lets the enemy hit you for free damage while you cannot fight back.

a) Using single dodge you can avoid 80% of the damage of the Rapid FireYou dont have Black Powder or SDaze from the offpistol/other weapon to avoid any Maul+ World Implact ?

You cannot. Best you can do is 60%, if its with Quickness. If its without Quickness, a single Dodge roll will only dodge 30%. 40% alone is more than enough. And, you want to use black Powder after going into stealth with ... what initiative? You likely just used it to stealth up. But even then, lets say you do that. Youre
still
at a disadvantage.

b) Ok ...i dodge in the same direction the theif dodge .If he on front of my ? Has he already moved more paces and he is behind me ?Did he dodge roll again , to avoid my burst and he is on my left ?

I never said I dodged. And I will repeat myself only this once more. I know the thief is in a cone in front of me. Here is how it works. The thief stealths up. There is no way to stealth up without landing a good distance away from me other than black powder + Heartseeker (And in that case I just dodge backwards on the heartseeker and walk backwards while cleaving). So, he is in that cone. And Im moving away from him. From this position he
cannot
be anywhere other than in front of me. He will
never
be to the left of me, to the right of me, or behind me. ONLY in front of me.

c) You dont need to use shadowstep .... use Steal its free... or his character has 180 degree cone to be Backstabed . Plenty of oprotunities

No you do need to use shadowstep. Here is what happens if you steal. You steal. I get dazed, know the thief is there, dodge backwards, and continue cleaving as the daze runs out. You wasted your steal and achieved nothing, unable to get a backstab, and merely a fronstab. Or even worse, I have stability, I ignore the daze, hit you with cleave, and then dodge backwards, getting extra damage.

d) If there was a movement penalty, the victim could avoid Backstbed by any stealth character , regadles if the thief had 1 min stealth or 3 sec

Once again, I have no idea what youre talking about. Thief backstabs people who dont know the thief is there, and as a result show him their back. If they know the thief is there, they can prevent him from getting a back backstab.

e) Not every class has the attack power or Axe Warriors to Chop-Chop and scare the thief .How much damage the thief will take from auto before he start attacking ? 3k or 4k ?Are you going to waste aoe spells , in order the thief might be on your back ? If you waste them how you will punish him later ?Normaly in other games ...if i hit the thief we would loose his stealth and wouldnt have the optotunity to Backstab me

Actually, every class does have more than enough power to hit the thief hard. And sure, lets say its 4k. Thats still 4k free damage on the thief, he was unable to backstab ,and he got
nothing
out of it. Also as I said, I dont "waste" AoE spells. I use them when I know the thief is close to force him to burn defenses, or I use free ones like Grenade Kit 1.

Actually, no. Normally in other games if you hit a stealthed character, the most you get is a brief outline. The only MMOs that have that are ones where stealth is
entirely
an out of combat things, and thats the very issue in the game in the first place.

To repeat myself. You want to ignore the actual problem with stealth, and nerf the part that is already
underpowered
. That makes no sense.

a) Theres traits that give Steal >Stealth . Such as Hidden Thief .You dont need to spent resources for that .If he hasnt Quickness , then 2 dodges will do the trick . Or simply OffPistol Daze > then use Steal (Hidden Thief)

Hidden Thief. Noone uses that trait. So, its a moot point. Also, in that case you just put yourself in cleave range while not being able to back backstab them. Not great, is it? Thats part of why noone picks hidden thief btw.

b) So you will go in the place where the theif went and did the black powder + Heartseeker combo ?And then what ? stay still and do aoes?120 yards is the range of auto attacks ... the thief can move in that distance its 0.3 sec , by simply walkingHe will let you , aoe him to death ? He wont dodge once ?By spamming auto attacks , you let open yourself to be Backstabed

Why would I go towards the thief? Im only interested in not letting him backstab. If he wants to run, he wants to run, that doesnt make him the 1v1, he just doesnt lose. My objective isnt to kill the thief, its to not lose the 1v1. So, what I do is I back away from the thief while cleaving. And no, you dont let yourself open to backstab at all. The most he can get is a frontstab, and that just aint worth it.

c)You dodge backwards while dazed and he dodged fordwards . so there is not distance between you .You move backwards , so you move in 50% speed , while he is coimmng towards you in 100%

If he wants to waste a dodge on that, his choice. Thing is, after the dodge I can attack again. If my cleave hits, I can dodge backwards again. Or use backwards mobility. Or drop an AoE on my point. Plenty of options, not much the thief can do.

d) If i wouldnt allow the theif to restealth , he wouldnt suprice me for a second time .That why stealth should break on damage , rather than waitng for the Thief to open on me for a second time

If he is stealthing up in-combat, he isnt surprising you. In fact, he is actually putting himself in danger. And no ,stealth absolutely shouldnt break on damage. At that point you can just delete stealth alltogether, and that would
still
be way better than your suggestion.

e) Yeah thats i am talking about :'' if you hit a stealthed character, the most you get is a brief outline''If i keep hittingthe Thief and dont allow him to go away from me , i can ''outline him'' for longerOr use Dots

"Outline" in this context is that you get his silhouette revealed for a split-second. The thief remains in stealth. You still cant target him. You just see his location. Its basically the thing we have right now with cleave and AoEs.

a)b) You move 50% if you trying to hide your back and slowly back awayIn stealth you dont know if he is already behind you or not , because you are slow .If you show your back he will Steal>Backstab you

You do. But that doesnt matter. He cant get to you without being hit by cleave and being revealed. And in fact I
do
know, short of shadowstep being used, that he isnt behind me. Because he has to move through me. And be hit by cleave.

c) You can dodge as many times you wantYou are wasting your survibility , and also moving 50% slower

See above: Doesnt matter. Besides, Im not wasting survivability. Im either dodging an attack he already launched, or matching his dodge/preemptively dodging a backstab.

d) You cannot kite him , because you are slow moving backwards

I dont need to kite him. I need to force him to take cleave damage to be able to possibly backstab me, and then fail anyway because I just dodge backwards while he took massive damage.

e) Yes , so attacking him i can see a Red dot... an outlineSo if i keep auto attacking him , he wont get on my BackThats i am talking aboutOr if i cast Dots +Chill on him from afar i can see his Red Dot on the ground

Thats
already the case right now
. You cleave him down. He cant get to your back. The outline would do practically nothing other than making you track him slightly more precisely. Also it wouldnt apply to DoTs. Obviously.

a) As a daredevil he would have 3 dodges , or a core thief can equip Feline Grace + Endless StaminaSo either way he will have an extra dodge to ain more distance

By that point his stealth wouldve run out. So, no, he doesnt have an extra dodge. You also forget that core D/P Thief doesnt run Acrobatics. So he wouldnt even
have
that option.

b) You move 50% slower . Whikl he is doing the dodge animation you can frely move , without worring if he attacks you.And when he dodges ends and start attack , you will dodge

As I said, doesnt matter. Slower or not, you create a scenario where he simply cant get behind you. Thats really all there is to it.

c) How much damage yourautos will do ?He cannnot dodge them ?

Enough, and not if wants to cross the distance with a dodge in the first place or leave himself extremely vulnerable post-reveal. Thats the beauty of it. When the thief stealths up in combat, he gives you the advantage for free.

d)You cleave and you dont know if you hit him or where he isEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH why dots shouldnt aply to it ?As theif you have otpion to remove Dots !!!!

Actually you do know that you hit him (autoattack swaps to the next chain after all) and roughly where he is. And because that would break the whole thing. I mean, frankly I dont think an outline is a good idea as is, in-combat stealth needs
buffs
, not nerfs.

Well, this is getting tiresome.

a) He would run out of stealth because Steal put you into range .He moves 50% slower , so if both have 2 dodges the offender/whoever moves faster, always win

No, he would run out of stealth because dodges take a while, and stealth doesnt last that long. And no, you wont win because youre getting cleaved in the face and unable to backstab.

b) He is slower , you will get on his back

Not without getting a faceful of cleave. And even then, he dodges backwards. You
won't
get behind him. Simple as that.

c) With steal , you will right in his face , he doesnt have an space tooperate

In his face, not behind him. Your backstab wont backstab. His cleave will cleave. Youre taking a chunk of damage, and then he dodges backwards and you still dont get to backstab.

e) auto attacks have 120 yards radium , he might comming from your left

Not an option. Hed have to curve around heavily to do that, and his stealth wont last long enough.

WAIT A @!!!# SEC , YOU SAID ABOUT THE OUTLINER THAT OTHER GAMES HAVE .......

Yes. Most of them dont get triggered by DoTs.

a) If he cleaves i have a chance to go in this Back ... I always win because i move faster .Even if i dont run 100 yards to reach his back , i can run 50yards and go for the sides (which count as Backstab)

You would. But you dont. Here is how it goes. You go within cleave range. Now at this point he has half a second before you catch up to him, and a bit more until youre at his back. So he hits you, and dodges backwards. You take damage, and fail to get in range. Also, moving to the side doesnt work because you need to move
more distance
for that. Remember, 180°. His back is actually faster than the sides.

b) Is any problem with your maths here ?You 100% speedHe 50%Both 2 dodgesYou will get on his back

No, but there is a problem with your understanding. You have 100% speed. He has 50% speed. You try to move in range. You get cleaved. He dodges backwards. You fail to reach the back. You try to dodge forwards, he does the same, then again. Your stealth runs out, you cant backstab. You fail to reach the back. You mightve noticed something missing here. The version where you reach his back. Thats because it doesnt exist. No matter what, the backstab will fail.

c) The defender dont know you are there , when you use Steal .He immagine you , you are 1200 range away

No actually he knows you are. Either he is dazed, in which case he knows youre there. Or you get hit by his cleave, in which case he knows youre there. There is no version where he doesnt know youre there.

d)Steal or Shadowstep , he doesnt know you exist or where you are

We're talking about in-combat stealth here, not out of combat stealth. Of course he knows you are there, and he knows your general location. In case of Shadowstep, yeah, you get a backstab, but you had to use Shadowstep. Thats not good for you either.

In WoW and Elder scroll , any damage (even dots) break the stealth

And WoW and Elder Scrolls stealth is a problem. As its out of combat stealth leading to cheesy surprise burst you cant really react to. Its also useless in-combat. Thats not what should be done. In fact, we need to do the
opposite
of WoW and Elder Scrolls. Out of combat stealth should be nerfed, and in-combat stealth
buffed
.

a) You dont have to travel extra distance .....You can stay inside his body , like a half anatomy doll . Behind the eyelobes , half his skull counts as Back-stableYou Steal >He attacks> You dodge > Uncatchable traits activate
> He is slowed >Backstab or Sidestab

You do, your model has to be within a 180° angle behind their model. Within you dont count at all. Also, there are no stealth builds running uncatchable. Hell there are barely
any
thief builds running uncatchable.

b) You dont have to go in the Back ... or use
to slow him down

Same answer as above, yes you do, no noone uses uncatchable.

c) The only way he is dazed is you took the trait that Daze and not the Quick Pockets (Gain initiative on swapping weapons while in combat)

.... uh, yeah. People use Sleight of Hand. Noone uses Quick Pockets. Im starting to think you havent even seen anyone play thief.

d) Again we come in rounds : Many games are moving away from GW2 stealth . Even Smite Loki has the same stealth and will be altered to a Outliner -see for some minisec each time he is attacked

No, actually, theyre all moving
towards
GW2 stealth. What people are moving away from is WoW type stealth. Thing is, they dont have things like cleave or on-hit traits to keep track of enemies. As such, they utilise outlines to make up for what GW2 inherently has.

a) There are theif that can always reach their target to do a proper Backstab .But if your problem that you cannot reachyour target , you can use that trait :PThe180 degree character doesnt start outside ... but from his axis that starts in his skull

From in-combat stealth? There arent. Mostly because no thief is going to go for in-combat stealth backstabs. Its a terrible idea. You go stealth up out of combat, try to burst them, and if they live you just disengage.

b) Better ujse, because it seem you have some problem , catching upcharacter that move 50% slower

Funny you think Im the thief and not the opponent. Besides, as I have explained multiple times (and I wont explain one more time), its not about catching up. Its about the fact that the thief will not be able to reach the back without being noticed by cleave, and allowing the enemy to just dodge backwards. Or to put it simple, what stealth does is let your opponent get in free damage while you are unable to fight back. Thats why in-combat stealth is bad, and why you dont use it.

c) Fews answers above you said , that Hartseeker +Black Powder combo comsume , alot ammount of innactiveSo yeah i go in circles too:P

I have no idea what youre trying to say here.

d) All are moving away from GW2 stealthEither they have mobility debufs , or break on damage or get outlines

Nope, towards GW2 stealth.
None
use the first 2 anymore. Thats the WoW method and its
bad
. Like, incredibly bad. Stealth being broken on stealth is incredibly terrible design. The outlines are used sometimes (only sometimes though, plenty of games dont even have them), and as Ive explained, theyre used because the things GW2 inherently has dont work for those games. Or in simpler terms, GW2 effectively has outlines already. Theyre just not outlines per se.

So, just to leave this off once and for all. Out of combat stealth is too good. In combat stealth is too bad. You are trying to leave out of combat stealth alone while nerfing in combat stealth. Thats stupid. The opposite should be done. Nerf out of combat stealth,
buff
in combat stealth.

a) This why we need an outliner -track the thief .If Theif dont kill his target , then the victim have a chance to track him and have a more balanced 1v1 , rather than playing ''guess where the thief will come from''

You can already track the thief. Besides, while the 1v1 isnt balanced, its because the Thief
loses
that 1v1, especially if he is a stealth build. Your suggestion to nerf it would make it even more unbalanced.

b) Again you can stealth and change directionsThe victim will move towards the direction your heartseeker was aimedYou simply dodge and d o slighty curve toward him and try to hit his sides

You would need to take a massive detour, and your stealth would run out before you could. Its not an option, plain and simple.

c) If you scroll up , in the part when i told you can use Hidden Thief , youtold me that no1 uses that , and most use Hartseeker +Black Powder combo for stealth . And that consume a huge amount of your Thief resources .If you have some many problems you can use Quick Pockets , rather than a silly Daze

That "silly daze" is a very important skill. Besides, youre using shortbow on the other hand. So you cant even use Quick pockets.

d) I am trying to implant our original idea ... an outliner... a ghost .... a blood-red circle on the ground

And Im saying its rather redundant.

a) You said other games and in your oppening post , that there should be some outliner , a mark on the ground?Why you are doing an 180 of that ?We both agreed that oppenners , such as Steal+Backstab first strike are unvoidable . You cannot remove them so the oppening stealth will be always there ...and the one left to do is :If the target survives ...he will not let the thief do to him the same

I said some of those other games have outlines. However, others also dont. And GW2 already has a substitute for outlines, you can already track the thief. So its redundant. And no, the solution is to make permastealth not work. Stealth into opener backstab at this point is fine. Backstab doesnt do that much damage. Permastealth is the only real issue.

b) Its not a detour, when the victim is comming to you ...or moving backwards at 50% speed

Of course its a detour. You had to make a large curve around them to avoid their cleave, and as I said, by that point your stealth runs out.

c) If you use Heartseeker + Blackpowder , you will need to gain Thief resources back , to do 2 xinflitrators aorrow...

Only if you were foolish enough to keep fighting. Of course, you dont. If your backstab isnt enough to get them killed, you disengage instead of fighting.

d) Its notredudunt when other games are doing it ... You are trying to protect the stealtrh that dont have any drawback from even a single game ...Thats prety bad, for a guy that uses Maths and logic and cannot see it :P

As I said, only some of them do it in the first place, and also, they only do that because they dont have the same option as GW2 does. Also, I dont play any stealth classes right now, I play against them. I just wish it was actually viable in-combat. And no, it already has a massive drawback. It lets the opponent get in free damage while you cant fight back.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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Posted

100% true, that's why the most powerful fictional entities, superheroes 'and others' totally abuse stealth all the time as their OP ability. (??)You seem to be a little biased with your example here, buddy -even if we conveniently "forget" that the ring did much more than that btw. :D
  • Detargetting. I can't target him/her, I can't hit him/her.

If stealth didn't detarget, what exactly would be the point of it? Also channeled/aoe skills still finish casting/deal dmg.

Here is my second biggest beef with stealth:
  • Massive damage from nowhere.

Backstab? Maybe. But the last time I got hit with a backstab, it was slightly over 5k dmg crit when I was in full berk. lmao.And still the biggest (I dare say "only") problem here is the duration of stealth, not the stealth mechanic itself.

You can avoid any channeling effects , with a simple dodge .And when he cannot target you , he cannot recast a channeling effect .

Most channeled effects actually last so long that a single dodge wont save you. Rapid Fire is a
loooong
channel. Itll continue through a dodge.

Whit berseker gear + a signet that offer 560 attack power (almost 40% of your gear) , you can deal 7/8k

On a squishy target, but yes. 7/8k is not that much. I can hit that in an AoE with Grenade Barrage on my Core Engineer. Dont even need setup for it. Also, on any target that isnt glass, itll be closer to 5k.

Stealth as problematic mechanic , where like Smite + WoW + Elder Scrolls , should reveal the player on getting damage

That is a
terrible
idea. Stealths problem is that its to good when used out of combat, i.e. when the enemy is ganking you and oneshotting you. In-combat, stealth is already really weak. Your suggestion would turn in-combat stealth from weak to absolutely unusable, while out of combat stealth remains practically untouched.

The majority of the Rangers have quickness casted before they started rapid-fire.One dodge will clear most of the damage .If they dont .... you will take 2 remaining shots for 2,5-3k total damage . Or punish his for believing that aslong he casted the channeling spell , he is safe

Even then it will cover a dodge. Also you would be eating so much damage its not funny. And no, you wont be able to "punish" the soulbeast. Youre at best half health and in Maul kill range.

How again is weak ?You can use the stealth a a single dodge to reposition yourself in 480 yards around your target , in various angles (he is northwest of you 300 yards ...or he is south 480 comeing to Backstab you)

First of all, dodge moves you
300
units, not 480. Dash moves you 450, but that requires Daredevil. Second, you had to waste a dash to prevent the opponent from fully tracking you, and you left yourself wide open. And even then, what next? Your opponent is gonna start cleaving or throwing out AoEs under his feet. Youre not gonna be able to approach them to hit them without taking a lot of damage. And no matter how you stealth up, there is no way for you to stealth up without, even with a dodge, putting yourself in a cone area. The enemy can just prevent you from backstabing him.

The victim will simply panic and waste attacks left and right , to ''hit you''

Nah Id just start cleaving with my autos, and once a hit connects, then Id follow up with actual skills. Simple, reliably, and hugely punishes stealth.

Whatever way we try to nerf Stealth , there will be the problem where ''Steal'' teleport you to your target + stealth has not movement penalty for the victim to run away from perma stealth .

If you want to run away from a thief (which Im not sure why you would want to, just fight them and theyll run away from you), then either youre not Warrior, in which case you cant (but also wouldnt be able to run away from Warrior), or youre Warrior, in which case you peace out.

Steal is a integrade part of thief kit , so it will be never removed . The only option is : If the target survive > kite and dont allow any stealth character to restealth and do the ''where the stealth guy again!+ prepere for burst round 2 !''' game

Its really not though. For most of the past few years, Thieves barely used stealth. Specifically, blinding powder. Thats it. No other form of stealth. Stealth only started being used by out of stealth burst builds, and they still avoid stealthing up in-combat because of how bad it is. Your "option" isnt an option, it specifically does absolutely
nothing
to how stealth is currently used, and kills the
already underperforming
in-combat stealth usage. The only actual option is to nerf out of combat stealth (max duration, promitiy indicator, reduced damage after X seconds in stealth, whatever), and
buff
in-combat stealth until its actually usable.

a) While he belives that he is immortal casting Rapid Fire you can attack him .If not ...then use a second dodge and the third one for Maul .

Yeah sure, try to fight back while his Rapidfire is trained on you. Good luck surviving the 12k+ damage headed your way. And sure, you can use 2 dodges on Rapid Fire and one on Maul and then ... you still get hit by Worldly Impact and die. Or really just autoattacked down. The Rangers damage is quite a lot higher than yours.

b) its 300 and you easy cover few paces with simply moving.If he start cleaing/doing spells , he is wasting spells .Backstabing Works from sides too (from your left ear > Back> right ear) .Its 180 degree of your character .

You get a burst of 300, and then you have to move. But the opponent can even move
during
the dodge. They will be able to keep you in a cone, and funnel you in. And no, he is only wasting spells if he isnt hitting you, and even then he isnt because that forces you to preemptively waste a dodge. And yes, backstabbing works in a 180° half-circle. Youre however in a cone in front of them. There is no way to get to the backstab spot without being cleaved down.

There is no sequnese of attacks that will do CONSTADLY for 12K and last for 1 whole min , prevending him from getting backstab .He will put a aoe > you get 3 stack of bleed + 1 poison > you aattack him

I dont need to hit for 12k. I just need to do decent damage. A single backstab wont ever kill me, and in-combat stealth wont even allow him to get a back backstab without wasting a shadowstep.

c) You will hit him with your autos?From which direction ?Is he already behind you or on your left ?

He is in a cone in front of me. I dont know where exactly, but I dont need to. He has no way to move behind me or to the left of me without burning a shadowstep, or getting cleaved down. Hell in the latter case I can just dodge backwards and he wont even hit one.

d) Movement speed reduction exist, so stealth gives a counterplay . Its your fault if you stay still or went the same direction as the thief went

Are you ... arguing against yourself? I have no idea. Again, the problem with stealth is being hit by an attack from a class you didnt
even know was there
.

e) I am sorry , but you lack immagination and you dont know how stealth is preety good .Having something that dont give any indication, if your spell hit of not the target , or if the enemy is near or far from you , Or where is coming , is something you cannot simply fathom

I know stealth is good
out
of combat. I also know its bad
in
combat. Also, actually you do get indication if your spell hit or not (autoattacks progress to the next chain, on X effects get used up, and unless its changed a while back, you still get the damage in the combat log. Dont actually know that part, I dont play with the combat log on because the condi ticks annoy me. Since you know where the thief was as he stealthed, you can actually tell how far away he is based on whether you hit him, or not. He can only move so far. In-combat, stealth is bad because it just lets the enemy hit you for free damage while you cannot fight back.

a) Using single dodge you can avoid 80% of the damage of the Rapid FireYou dont have Black Powder or SDaze from the offpistol/other weapon to avoid any Maul+ World Implact ?

You cannot. Best you can do is 60%, if its with Quickness. If its without Quickness, a single Dodge roll will only dodge 30%. 40% alone is more than enough. And, you want to use black Powder after going into stealth with ... what initiative? You likely just used it to stealth up. But even then, lets say you do that. Youre
still
at a disadvantage.

b) Ok ...i dodge in the same direction the theif dodge .If he on front of my ? Has he already moved more paces and he is behind me ?Did he dodge roll again , to avoid my burst and he is on my left ?

I never said I dodged. And I will repeat myself only this once more. I know the thief is in a cone in front of me. Here is how it works. The thief stealths up. There is no way to stealth up without landing a good distance away from me other than black powder + Heartseeker (And in that case I just dodge backwards on the heartseeker and walk backwards while cleaving). So, he is in that cone. And Im moving away from him. From this position he
cannot
be anywhere other than in front of me. He will
never
be to the left of me, to the right of me, or behind me. ONLY in front of me.

c) You dont need to use shadowstep .... use Steal its free... or his character has 180 degree cone to be Backstabed . Plenty of oprotunities

No you do need to use shadowstep. Here is what happens if you steal. You steal. I get dazed, know the thief is there, dodge backwards, and continue cleaving as the daze runs out. You wasted your steal and achieved nothing, unable to get a backstab, and merely a fronstab. Or even worse, I have stability, I ignore the daze, hit you with cleave, and then dodge backwards, getting extra damage.

d) If there was a movement penalty, the victim could avoid Backstbed by any stealth character , regadles if the thief had 1 min stealth or 3 sec

Once again, I have no idea what youre talking about. Thief backstabs people who dont know the thief is there, and as a result show him their back. If they know the thief is there, they can prevent him from getting a back backstab.

e) Not every class has the attack power or Axe Warriors to Chop-Chop and scare the thief .How much damage the thief will take from auto before he start attacking ? 3k or 4k ?Are you going to waste aoe spells , in order the thief might be on your back ? If you waste them how you will punish him later ?Normaly in other games ...if i hit the thief we would loose his stealth and wouldnt have the optotunity to Backstab me

Actually, every class does have more than enough power to hit the thief hard. And sure, lets say its 4k. Thats still 4k free damage on the thief, he was unable to backstab ,and he got
nothing
out of it. Also as I said, I dont "waste" AoE spells. I use them when I know the thief is close to force him to burn defenses, or I use free ones like Grenade Kit 1.

Actually, no. Normally in other games if you hit a stealthed character, the most you get is a brief outline. The only MMOs that have that are ones where stealth is
entirely
an out of combat things, and thats the very issue in the game in the first place.

To repeat myself. You want to ignore the actual problem with stealth, and nerf the part that is already
underpowered
. That makes no sense.

a) Theres traits that give Steal >Stealth . Such as Hidden Thief .You dont need to spent resources for that .If he hasnt Quickness , then 2 dodges will do the trick . Or simply OffPistol Daze > then use Steal (Hidden Thief)

Hidden Thief. Noone uses that trait. So, its a moot point. Also, in that case you just put yourself in cleave range while not being able to back backstab them. Not great, is it? Thats part of why noone picks hidden thief btw.

b) So you will go in the place where the theif went and did the black powder + Heartseeker combo ?And then what ? stay still and do aoes?120 yards is the range of auto attacks ... the thief can move in that distance its 0.3 sec , by simply walkingHe will let you , aoe him to death ? He wont dodge once ?By spamming auto attacks , you let open yourself to be Backstabed

Why would I go towards the thief? Im only interested in not letting him backstab. If he wants to run, he wants to run, that doesnt make him the 1v1, he just doesnt lose. My objective isnt to kill the thief, its to not lose the 1v1. So, what I do is I back away from the thief while cleaving. And no, you dont let yourself open to backstab at all. The most he can get is a frontstab, and that just aint worth it.

c)You dodge backwards while dazed and he dodged fordwards . so there is not distance between you .You move backwards , so you move in 50% speed , while he is coimmng towards you in 100%

If he wants to waste a dodge on that, his choice. Thing is, after the dodge I can attack again. If my cleave hits, I can dodge backwards again. Or use backwards mobility. Or drop an AoE on my point. Plenty of options, not much the thief can do.

d) If i wouldnt allow the theif to restealth , he wouldnt suprice me for a second time .That why stealth should break on damage , rather than waitng for the Thief to open on me for a second time

If he is stealthing up in-combat, he isnt surprising you. In fact, he is actually putting himself in danger. And no ,stealth absolutely shouldnt break on damage. At that point you can just delete stealth alltogether, and that would
still
be way better than your suggestion.

e) Yeah thats i am talking about :'' if you hit a stealthed character, the most you get is a brief outline''If i keep hittingthe Thief and dont allow him to go away from me , i can ''outline him'' for longerOr use Dots

"Outline" in this context is that you get his silhouette revealed for a split-second. The thief remains in stealth. You still cant target him. You just see his location. Its basically the thing we have right now with cleave and AoEs.

a)b) You move 50% if you trying to hide your back and slowly back awayIn stealth you dont know if he is already behind you or not , because you are slow .If you show your back he will Steal>Backstab you

You do. But that doesnt matter. He cant get to you without being hit by cleave and being revealed. And in fact I
do
know, short of shadowstep being used, that he isnt behind me. Because he has to move through me. And be hit by cleave.

c) You can dodge as many times you wantYou are wasting your survibility , and also moving 50% slower

See above: Doesnt matter. Besides, Im not wasting survivability. Im either dodging an attack he already launched, or matching his dodge/preemptively dodging a backstab.

d) You cannot kite him , because you are slow moving backwards

I dont need to kite him. I need to force him to take cleave damage to be able to possibly backstab me, and then fail anyway because I just dodge backwards while he took massive damage.

e) Yes , so attacking him i can see a Red dot... an outlineSo if i keep auto attacking him , he wont get on my BackThats i am talking aboutOr if i cast Dots +Chill on him from afar i can see his Red Dot on the ground

Thats
already the case right now
. You cleave him down. He cant get to your back. The outline would do practically nothing other than making you track him slightly more precisely. Also it wouldnt apply to DoTs. Obviously.

a) As a daredevil he would have 3 dodges , or a core thief can equip Feline Grace + Endless StaminaSo either way he will have an extra dodge to ain more distance

By that point his stealth wouldve run out. So, no, he doesnt have an extra dodge. You also forget that core D/P Thief doesnt run Acrobatics. So he wouldnt even
have
that option.

b) You move 50% slower . Whikl he is doing the dodge animation you can frely move , without worring if he attacks you.And when he dodges ends and start attack , you will dodge

As I said, doesnt matter. Slower or not, you create a scenario where he simply cant get behind you. Thats really all there is to it.

c) How much damage yourautos will do ?He cannnot dodge them ?

Enough, and not if wants to cross the distance with a dodge in the first place or leave himself extremely vulnerable post-reveal. Thats the beauty of it. When the thief stealths up in combat, he gives you the advantage for free.

d)You cleave and you dont know if you hit him or where he isEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH why dots shouldnt aply to it ?As theif you have otpion to remove Dots !!!!

Actually you do know that you hit him (autoattack swaps to the next chain after all) and roughly where he is. And because that would break the whole thing. I mean, frankly I dont think an outline is a good idea as is, in-combat stealth needs
buffs
, not nerfs.

Well, this is getting tiresome.

a) He would run out of stealth because Steal put you into range .He moves 50% slower , so if both have 2 dodges the offender/whoever moves faster, always win

No, he would run out of stealth because dodges take a while, and stealth doesnt last that long. And no, you wont win because youre getting cleaved in the face and unable to backstab.

b) He is slower , you will get on his back

Not without getting a faceful of cleave. And even then, he dodges backwards. You
won't
get behind him. Simple as that.

c) With steal , you will right in his face , he doesnt have an space tooperate

In his face, not behind him. Your backstab wont backstab. His cleave will cleave. Youre taking a chunk of damage, and then he dodges backwards and you still dont get to backstab.

e) auto attacks have 120 yards radium , he might comming from your left

Not an option. Hed have to curve around heavily to do that, and his stealth wont last long enough.

WAIT A @!!!# SEC , YOU SAID ABOUT THE OUTLINER THAT OTHER GAMES HAVE .......

Yes. Most of them dont get triggered by DoTs.

a) If he cleaves i have a chance to go in this Back ... I always win because i move faster .Even if i dont run 100 yards to reach his back , i can run 50yards and go for the sides (which count as Backstab)

You would. But you dont. Here is how it goes. You go within cleave range. Now at this point he has half a second before you catch up to him, and a bit more until youre at his back. So he hits you, and dodges backwards. You take damage, and fail to get in range. Also, moving to the side doesnt work because you need to move
more distance
for that. Remember, 180°. His back is actually faster than the sides.

b) Is any problem with your maths here ?You 100% speedHe 50%Both 2 dodgesYou will get on his back

No, but there is a problem with your understanding. You have 100% speed. He has 50% speed. You try to move in range. You get cleaved. He dodges backwards. You fail to reach the back. You try to dodge forwards, he does the same, then again. Your stealth runs out, you cant backstab. You fail to reach the back. You mightve noticed something missing here. The version where you reach his back. Thats because it doesnt exist. No matter what, the backstab will fail.

c) The defender dont know you are there , when you use Steal .He immagine you , you are 1200 range away

No actually he knows you are. Either he is dazed, in which case he knows youre there. Or you get hit by his cleave, in which case he knows youre there. There is no version where he doesnt know youre there.

d)Steal or Shadowstep , he doesnt know you exist or where you are

We're talking about in-combat stealth here, not out of combat stealth. Of course he knows you are there, and he knows your general location. In case of Shadowstep, yeah, you get a backstab, but you had to use Shadowstep. Thats not good for you either.

In WoW and Elder scroll , any damage (even dots) break the stealth

And WoW and Elder Scrolls stealth is a problem. As its out of combat stealth leading to cheesy surprise burst you cant really react to. Its also useless in-combat. Thats not what should be done. In fact, we need to do the
opposite
of WoW and Elder Scrolls. Out of combat stealth should be nerfed, and in-combat stealth
buffed
.

a) You dont have to travel extra distance .....You can stay inside his body , like a half anatomy doll . Behind the eyelobes , half his skull counts as Back-stableYou Steal >He attacks> You dodge > Uncatchable traits activate
> He is slowed >Backstab or Sidestab

You do, your model has to be within a 180° angle behind their model. Within you dont count at all. Also, there are no stealth builds running uncatchable. Hell there are barely
any
thief builds running uncatchable.

b) You dont have to go in the Back ... or use
to slow him down

Same answer as above, yes you do, no noone uses uncatchable.

c) The only way he is dazed is you took the trait that Daze and not the Quick Pockets (Gain initiative on swapping weapons while in combat)

.... uh, yeah. People use Sleight of Hand. Noone uses Quick Pockets. Im starting to think you havent even seen anyone play thief.

d) Again we come in rounds : Many games are moving away from GW2 stealth . Even Smite Loki has the same stealth and will be altered to a Outliner -see for some minisec each time he is attacked

No, actually, theyre all moving
towards
GW2 stealth. What people are moving away from is WoW type stealth. Thing is, they dont have things like cleave or on-hit traits to keep track of enemies. As such, they utilise outlines to make up for what GW2 inherently has.

a) There are theif that can always reach their target to do a proper Backstab .But if your problem that you cannot reachyour target , you can use that trait :PThe180 degree character doesnt start outside ... but from his axis that starts in his skull

From in-combat stealth? There arent. Mostly because no thief is going to go for in-combat stealth backstabs. Its a terrible idea. You go stealth up out of combat, try to burst them, and if they live you just disengage.

b) Better ujse, because it seem you have some problem , catching upcharacter that move 50% slower

Funny you think Im the thief and not the opponent. Besides, as I have explained multiple times (and I wont explain one more time), its not about catching up. Its about the fact that the thief will not be able to reach the back without being noticed by cleave, and allowing the enemy to just dodge backwards. Or to put it simple, what stealth does is let your opponent get in free damage while you are unable to fight back. Thats why in-combat stealth is bad, and why you dont use it.

c) Fews answers above you said , that Hartseeker +Black Powder combo comsume , alot ammount of innactiveSo yeah i go in circles too:P

I have no idea what youre trying to say here.

d) All are moving away from GW2 stealthEither they have mobility debufs , or break on damage or get outlines

Nope, towards GW2 stealth.
None
use the first 2 anymore. Thats the WoW method and its
bad
. Like, incredibly bad. Stealth being broken on stealth is incredibly terrible design. The outlines are used sometimes (only sometimes though, plenty of games dont even have them), and as Ive explained, theyre used because the things GW2 inherently has dont work for those games. Or in simpler terms, GW2 effectively has outlines already. Theyre just not outlines per se.

So, just to leave this off once and for all. Out of combat stealth is too good. In combat stealth is too bad. You are trying to leave out of combat stealth alone while nerfing in combat stealth. Thats stupid. The opposite should be done. Nerf out of combat stealth,
buff
in combat stealth.

a) This why we need an outliner -track the thief .If Theif dont kill his target , then the victim have a chance to track him and have a more balanced 1v1 , rather than playing ''guess where the thief will come from''

You can already track the thief. Besides, while the 1v1 isnt balanced, its because the Thief
loses
that 1v1, especially if he is a stealth build. Your suggestion to nerf it would make it even more unbalanced.

b) Again you can stealth and change directionsThe victim will move towards the direction your heartseeker was aimedYou simply dodge and d o slighty curve toward him and try to hit his sides

You would need to take a massive detour, and your stealth would run out before you could. Its not an option, plain and simple.

c) If you scroll up , in the part when i told you can use Hidden Thief , youtold me that no1 uses that , and most use Hartseeker +Black Powder combo for stealth . And that consume a huge amount of your Thief resources .If you have some many problems you can use Quick Pockets , rather than a silly Daze

That "silly daze" is a very important skill. Besides, youre using shortbow on the other hand. So you cant even use Quick pockets.

d) I am trying to implant our original idea ... an outliner... a ghost .... a blood-red circle on the ground

And Im saying its rather redundant.

a) You said other games and in your oppening post , that there should be some outliner , a mark on the ground?Why you are doing an 180 of that ?We both agreed that oppenners , such as Steal+Backstab first strike are unvoidable . You cannot remove them so the oppening stealth will be always there ...and the one left to do is :If the target survives ...he will not let the thief do to him the same

I said
some
of those other games have outlines. However, others also dont. And GW2 already has a substitute for outlines, you can already track the thief. So its redundant. And no, the solution is to make permastealth not work. Stealth into opener backstab at this point is fine. Backstab doesnt do that much damage. Permastealth is the only real issue.

b) Its not a detour, when the victim is comming to you ...or moving backwards at 50% speed

Of course its a detour. You had to make a large curve around them to avoid their cleave, and as I said, by that point your stealth runs out.

c) If you use Heartseeker + Blackpowder , you will need to gain Thief resources back , to do 2 xinflitrators aorrow...

Only if you were foolish enough to keep fighting. Of course, you dont. If your backstab isnt enough to get them killed, you disengage instead of fighting.

d) Its notredudunt when other games are doing it ... You are trying to protect the stealtrh that dont have any drawback from even a single game ...Thats prety bad, for a guy that uses Maths and logic and cannot see it :P

As I said, only some of them do it in the first place, and also, they only do that because they dont have the same option as GW2 does. Also, I dont play any stealth classes right now, I play
against
them. I just wish it was actually viable in-combat. And no, it already has a massive drawback. It lets the opponent get in free damage while you cant fight back.

a) Some games have outliners ..other break on damage or you get slowed while in stealth .There is not many games as GW2 stealth .If there wasnt a Backstab or any other oppening high damage strike , then Stealth would be a medium combat skill ...because they obnly thing to be afraid would be auto attacks or Heartseeker .But because High damage oppening strikes cannot be removed after 8 , we should give the victim more a counterbalance so he wont get Backstabed .

b) If the victim is comming to you , you can dodge and attack his sides , while he believes he is in front of him

c) You need Thief resources to disengage ....Thatst why quick pocket is better than a daze

d) Which other games , are we talking about again ?Smite after 8 year ...and very few male sexy cross dressing , is changing their incombat Loki stealth to an outlinierAnd they are an esport game

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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@"UNOwen.7132" said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Invisibility1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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Any type of damage to a thief should put it on a 10 sec reveal cd. That way thief still can stack stealth to allow for a ambush and also allow it to retain its playstyle. A thief that can also time its evades can avoid damage and restealth as reward but if its struck loses stealth as a punishment for 10 sec. Sounds more balanced to me then how stealth is now but rewards good thief play.

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XenesisII.1540

XenesisII.1540

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Remove access to dodge while in stealth.

Again, terrible idea. I dont know why people when trying to fix the legitimate issues stealth has, try to hit everything
except the actual issue stealth has
. This nerf would only nerf the already severely underperforming in-combat stealth while keeping out of combat stealth completely intact.

Interesting, so in what way is it "underperforming" and how you would you buff it?

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is much harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still in your favour.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so unbelievably useless that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@XenesisII.1540 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Remove access to dodge while in stealth.

Again, terrible idea. I dont know why people when trying to fix the legitimate issues stealth has, try to hit everything
except the actual issue stealth has
. This nerf would only nerf the already severely underperforming in-combat stealth while keeping out of combat stealth completely intact.

Interesting, so in what way is it "underperforming" and how you would you buff it?

In the way that no build actually goes for stealth in the middle of a combat other than Deadeye, who does it to immediately fire DJ and exit stealth. Its problem is that accessing stealth is slow, and telegraphed, and leaves you wide open for attacks. Free damage you take while you cant fight back. As for how I would fix it, three-fold. First, create a weaponset for in-combat stealth in the first place. D/P Thieves option to access it is far too slow and telegraphed, but there is also no way to solve it without changing Heartseeker or Black Powder, and Id rather keep those intact. Instead keep D/P thieves stealth as is (well, with the stealth doesnt stack thing), and instead make PI not useless again so that D/P has a viable build there.

Instead, lets turn offhand Dagger into the new stealth weapon. It already technically has Cloak and Dagger, Cloak and Dagger just sucks. I would replace it with a 6 initiative skill that just drops you into stealth if youre close enough to an enemy (lets say, 400 range), and does a small amount of damage on your next attack. Maybe it applies vuln too. Something along those lines. Next, Shadow Arts. Id add a trait that gives you 1 second of superspeed and 60% damage reduction upon entering stealth. Reduce, but not completely nullify, the weakness of stealth. Still vulnerable to aimed CC skills and channeled skills, but a better way of dealing with cleave. Then Id maybe shift around some of the Shadow Arts traits. Revert Cloaked in Shadow, change Leeching Venoms (again, since without stacking stealth it doesnt make much sense), etc. etc.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is
much
harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still
in your favour
.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so
unbelievably useless
that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

You are the one saying that we should copy Dota !Riki in there theres a 1 sec delay defore he dessapear .If you casted aoe at Riki location , he would take damage . He doesnt have dodge or anything to reposition himself . We know ehere he is . And even more if we slow him

We should create more True vision attacks or jungle buffs to see the Stealth guy

YOU SAIDWe must compy Dota2 , which is bigger e-sport that Smite

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Yuffi.2430

Yuffi.2430

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The whole concept of stealth is wrong in this game. You should only be able to use stealth if you:

  1. have shadows to hide in
  2. remove your armour so you can move silently
  3. move slowly or don't move
  4. take a bathOnce you attack from stealth you should become revealed and remain visible until your opponent is unable to see you due to line of sight or blindness.

Note 1: stealth in bright sunlight is as abhorrent as lag. Stealthy silence in darkness is still relevant.Note 2: as you get closer to a player there should be a greater chance sound causes you to be revealed - no armour and ultra slow movement should reduce this.Note 3: speed of movement should increase the chance of being revealed - it being impossible to move faster in a sneaky and silent fashionNote 4: most ranger pets and all Charr should be able to track a stealthed character as a vapour cloud of smell (use mist-form animation).

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is
much
harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still
in your favour
.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so
unbelievably useless
that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

You are the one saying that we should copy Dota !Riki in there theres a 1 sec delay defore he dessapear .If you casted aoe at Riki location , he would take damage . He doesnt have dodge or anything to reposition himself . We know ehere he is . And even more if we slow him

I never said we should copy anything. We shouldnt. What I said was that most games have an analogue to GW2s stealth. And yes, you know where Riki is, just like how you know where the thief is. In a general area. Sides, Riki has Blink Strike, so no, you dont actually know.

We should create more True vision attacks or jungle buffs to see the Stealth guy

Would only make sense if those attacks can be missed and if once youre downed, you lose that ability for good. Sides, thats what marked is for.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is
much
harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still
in your favour
.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so
unbelievably useless
that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

You are the one saying that we should copy Dota !Riki in there theres a 1 sec delay defore he dessapear .If you casted aoe at Riki location , he would take damage . He doesnt have dodge or anything to reposition himself . We know ehere he is . And even more if we slow him

I never said we should copy anything. We shouldnt. What I said was that most games have an analogue to GW2s stealth. And yes, you know where Riki is, just like how you know where the thief is. In a general area. Sides, Riki has Blink Strike, so no, you dont actually know.

We should create more True vision attacks or jungle buffs to see the Stealth guy

Would only make sense if those attacks can be missed and if once youre downed, you lose that ability for good. Sides, thats what marked is for.

Ye he has a Blink Strike , where the only way to avoid getting aoe , it to come to me , for more aoes...He cannot play the hide and seek game where he might be on my right or left . Either on my aoes .... and if am close i did them ...he will stay on the aoes .AND HAVE THE BENEFIT >THAT HE CANNOT ATTACKK FOR 2 SEC

Other gameslike dota , have ''checks'' placed to counter stealth , The one i listed to youIf dota2 has the same stealth mechanic...then we must create the same Detection spells

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is
much
harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still
in your favour
.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so
unbelievably useless
that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

You are the one saying that we should copy Dota !Riki in there theres a 1 sec delay defore he dessapear .If you casted aoe at Riki location , he would take damage . He doesnt have dodge or anything to reposition himself . We know ehere he is . And even more if we slow him

I never said we should copy anything. We shouldnt. What I said was that most games have an analogue to GW2s stealth. And yes, you know where Riki is, just like how you know where the thief is. In a general area. Sides, Riki has Blink Strike, so no, you dont actually know.

We should create more True vision attacks or jungle buffs to see the Stealth guy

Would only make sense if those attacks can be missed and if once youre downed, you lose that ability for good. Sides, thats what marked is for.

Ye he has a Blink Strike , where the only way to avoid getting aoe , it to come to me , for more aoes...He cannot play the hide and seek game where he might be on my right or left . Either on my aoes .... and if am close i did them ...he will stay on the aoes .AND HAVE THE BENEFIT >THAT HE CANNOT ATTACKK FOR 2 SEC

Or blink on literally anyone else in the vicinity, including allies. Also, you forgot that he can actually attack while stealthed. Hell, he has a trait to be permanently stealthed and unrevealable (Though lets not do that).

Other gameslike dota , have ''checks'' placed to counter stealth , The one i listed to youIf dota2 has the same stealth mechanic...then we must create the same Detection spells

Yes, and in GW2 those also exist, theyre called "cleave" and "AoE". Do you know why outlines or true sight or the like exist in MOBAs? Its because there is no cleave. Most characters simply have no way to hit someone who isnt targetable. But in GW2, all characters do have that.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is
much
harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still
in your favour
.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so
unbelievably useless
that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

You are the one saying that we should copy Dota !Riki in there theres a 1 sec delay defore he dessapear .If you casted aoe at Riki location , he would take damage . He doesnt have dodge or anything to reposition himself . We know ehere he is . And even more if we slow him

I never said we should copy anything. We shouldnt. What I said was that most games have an analogue to GW2s stealth. And yes, you know where Riki is, just like how you know where the thief is. In a general area. Sides, Riki has Blink Strike, so no, you dont actually know.

We should create more True vision attacks or jungle buffs to see the Stealth guy

Would only make sense if those attacks can be missed and if once youre downed, you lose that ability for good. Sides, thats what marked is for.

Ye he has a Blink Strike , where the only way to avoid getting aoe , it to come to me , for more aoes...He cannot play the hide and seek game where he might be on my right or left . Either on my aoes .... and if am close i did them ...he will stay on the aoes .AND HAVE THE BENEFIT >THAT HE CANNOT ATTACKK FOR 2 SEC

Or blink on literally anyone else in the vicinity, including allies. Also, you forgot that he can actually attack while stealthed. Hell, he has a trait to be permanently stealthed and unrevealable (Though lets not do that).

Other gameslike dota , have ''checks'' placed to counter stealth , The one i listed to youIf dota2 has the same stealth mechanic...then we must create the same Detection spells

Yes, and in GW2 those also exist, theyre called "cleave" and "AoE". Do you know why outlines or true sight or the like exist in MOBAs? Its because there is no cleave. Most characters simply have no way to hit someone who isnt targetable. But in GW2, all characters
do
have that.

In a single 1v1 , which consist fo 70% ofroaming , he wont be able to teleport to his alliesThis thread doesnt whine about Stealth in a group ... but single person stealth aplication Mesmers/Enginner/Thief

Yeah i can cleave too , but he can avoid + reposistion with dodging. Somethng that rickycant doIf ricky keep attacking while activating the cloack > he wont get the fully invisibility.He must stop attacking for1 sec + 1 after he gets into = 2 sec freekill

So in stealth you dont get any Dodge Bar , and if you mist an attack > you are revealved ? Sounds ok ?If i get killed i can go kill an Ncp that offer me true shot to see throught stealth with their siluates ? Sounds ok ?

Dota is a an e-sport games ith million of ppl. They know better about stealth+_ counters . Something that GW2 should copy

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is
much
harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still
in your favour
.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so
unbelievably useless
that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

You are the one saying that we should copy Dota !Riki in there theres a 1 sec delay defore he dessapear .If you casted aoe at Riki location , he would take damage . He doesnt have dodge or anything to reposition himself . We know ehere he is . And even more if we slow him

I never said we should copy anything. We shouldnt. What I said was that most games have an analogue to GW2s stealth. And yes, you know where Riki is, just like how you know where the thief is. In a general area. Sides, Riki has Blink Strike, so no, you dont actually know.

We should create more True vision attacks or jungle buffs to see the Stealth guy

Would only make sense if those attacks can be missed and if once youre downed, you lose that ability for good. Sides, thats what marked is for.

Ye he has a Blink Strike , where the only way to avoid getting aoe , it to come to me , for more aoes...He cannot play the hide and seek game where he might be on my right or left . Either on my aoes .... and if am close i did them ...he will stay on the aoes .AND HAVE THE BENEFIT >THAT HE CANNOT ATTACKK FOR 2 SEC

Or blink on literally anyone else in the vicinity, including allies. Also, you forgot that he can actually attack while stealthed. Hell, he has a trait to be permanently stealthed and unrevealable (Though lets not do that).

Other gameslike dota , have ''checks'' placed to counter stealth , The one i listed to youIf dota2 has the same stealth mechanic...then we must create the same Detection spells

Yes, and in GW2 those also exist, theyre called "cleave" and "AoE". Do you know why outlines or true sight or the like exist in MOBAs? Its because there is no cleave. Most characters simply have no way to hit someone who isnt targetable. But in GW2, all characters
do
have that.

In a single 1v1 , which consist fo 70% ofroaming , he wont be able to teleport to his alliesThis thread doesnt whine about Stealth in a group ... but single person stealth aplication Mesmers/Enginner/Thief

Creeps count as allies, and Jungle creeps are targets too. So no, he will be able to jump to someone else, if he wanted to.

Yeah i can cleave too , but he can avoid + reposistion with dodging. Somethng that rickycant doIf ricky keep attacking while activating the cloack > he wont get the fully invisibility.He must stop attacking for1 sec + 1 after he gets into = 2 sec freekill

No, he cant. He has to dodge to get close in the first place. Or telegraph his teleport and allow you to dodge away. Sides, Riki can do it (dodge chance exists, as do various anti-magic items), and he also doesnt need to because cleave isnt a thing in Dota 2. And no, he just waits for 2 seconds and is stealthed. Or is permanently stealthed.

So in stealth you dont get any Dodge Bar , and if you mist an attack > you are revealved ? Sounds ok ?If i get killed i can go kill an Ncp that offer me true shot to see throught stealth with their siluates ? Sounds ok ?

Of course not. But lets just drop the pretense. You want stealth as a whole deleted. Just say that, and we can move on from this farce.

Dota is a an e-sport games ith million of ppl. They know better about stealth+_ counters . Something that GW2 should copy

GW2s stealth in-combat already has counters. So many counters that its straight up not viable. So again, drop the pretense, say you want to delete stealth so that everyone can ignore you.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Well, it automatically deleted my comments. Wack. Anyway, Ill just mention the most important thing: Dota 2, a much bigger esports than smite, has stealth that not only doesnt create an outline on damage, but even disjoints all attacks upon entering it.

1) The fade time is a short delay before the actual invisibility is applied, during which a unit's model appears transparent, but still visible to everyone.2) Unlike during the fade time, it is not possible to cast spells or items or attack during the fade delay without resetting it (PREVENTING YOU FROM GAINING INVISIBLITY IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING)3) While invisible, a unit never automatically attacks any nearby enemy, not even when it is revealed by True Sight and being attacked4) True Sight and shared vision allows a unit to see invisible enemies without dispelling the invisibility. True Sight makes the units appear transparent, while shared vision only shows a silhouette. Both make the unit directly targetable again, without dispelling the invisibility

Lesson :Give a small delay before you can go into stealth and give all classes an easy access to some spells that deal damage or cc and do reveale in the same time .If he i see him try to stealth hm , i will have 1-1,5 sec sec to stop him from gainig stealthAnd killing Npcs on the woods offer True SightIf i aoe blind a Thief or have Aegis (there a rune in the PvP section , where if you use a low cd Ulti you get 30 sec aegis)...and if he misses his next attack > he gets destealth >>YES DO THIS EVEN DOTA HAS IT ! AND ITS ESPORT

This is getting annoying. First, the Fade Delay. Already exists. There is no way for thief to gain stealth without going through a cast time, and he cant gain invisibility while attacking. In fact, GW2s fade delay is
much
harsher, usually the fastest way to access stealth is 0.75 seconds.

Also put 12-20 sec cd on stealth like dota

Riki and Weaver have stealth with only 2 seconds between stealth. We already have 3. Thats sufficient.

Also dont allow thieves to no dodge while stealth . If i know where they are and i start casted aoes + slow in a area > he MUST EAT IT and wa8 for some minisecs , before he can attack me

YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT. If he has to waste his dodge because he gave you free access to damage, thats still
in your favour
.

Dont allow thiefs to attack for 1 sec before and another afte they get stealth > so i can aoe them to death

Oh I get it. Basically, let me translate what you want. "I want to delete stealth, but I cant literally delete it, so I will make it so
unbelievably useless
that any attempt to try and play it would be a troll pick and should be grounds for a ban".

So yeah, I guess this is pointless. You dont want stealth to exist, and I do not believe I will be able to convince you otherwise.

You are the one saying that we should copy Dota !Riki in there theres a 1 sec delay defore he dessapear .If you casted aoe at Riki location , he would take damage . He doesnt have dodge or anything to reposition himself . We know ehere he is . And even more if we slow him

I never said we should copy anything. We shouldnt. What I said was that most games have an analogue to GW2s stealth. And yes, you know where Riki is, just like how you know where the thief is. In a general area. Sides, Riki has Blink Strike, so no, you dont actually know.

We should create more True vision attacks or jungle buffs to see the Stealth guy

Would only make sense if those attacks can be missed and if once youre downed, you lose that ability for good. Sides, thats what marked is for.

Ye he has a Blink Strike , where the only way to avoid getting aoe , it to come to me , for more aoes...He cannot play the hide and seek game where he might be on my right or left . Either on my aoes .... and if am close i did them ...he will stay on the aoes .AND HAVE THE BENEFIT >THAT HE CANNOT ATTACKK FOR 2 SEC

Or blink on literally anyone else in the vicinity, including allies. Also, you forgot that he can actually attack while stealthed. Hell, he has a trait to be permanently stealthed and unrevealable (Though lets not do that).

Other gameslike dota , have ''checks'' placed to counter stealth , The one i listed to youIf dota2 has the same stealth mechanic...then we must create the same Detection spells

Yes, and in GW2 those also exist, theyre called "cleave" and "AoE". Do you know why outlines or true sight or the like exist in MOBAs? Its because there is no cleave. Most characters simply have no way to hit someone who isnt targetable. But in GW2, all characters
do
have that.

In a single 1v1 , which consist fo 70% ofroaming , he wont be able to teleport to his alliesThis thread doesnt whine about Stealth in a group ... but single person stealth aplication Mesmers/Enginner/Thief

Creeps count as allies, and Jungle creeps are targets too. So no, he will be able to jump to someone else, if he wanted to.

Yeah i can cleave too , but he can avoid + reposistion with dodging. Somethng that rickycant doIf ricky keep attacking while activating the cloack > he wont get the fully invisibility.He must stop attacking for1 sec + 1 after he gets into = 2 sec freekill

No, he cant. He has to dodge to get close in the first place. Or telegraph his teleport and allow you to dodge away. Sides, Riki can do it (dodge chance exists, as do various anti-magic items), and he also doesnt need to because cleave isnt a thing in Dota 2. And no, he just waits for 2 seconds and is stealthed. Or is permanently stealthed.

So in stealth you dont get any Dodge Bar , and if you mist an attack > you are revealved ? Sounds ok ?If i get killed i can go kill an Ncp that offer me true shot to see throught stealth with their siluates ? Sounds ok ?

Of course not. But lets just drop the pretense. You want stealth as a whole deleted. Just say that, and we can move on from this farce.

Dota is a an e-sport games ith million of ppl. They know better about stealth+_ counters . Something that GW2 should copy

GW2s stealth in-combat already has counters. So many counters that its straight up not viable. So again, drop the pretense, say you want to delete stealth so that everyone can ignore you.

When ricky is permanatly stealthsed >he stealth and attack any time he wants .When he tries to restealth in front of me , i know where he stealth

I dont stealth to deleted .... i want your answers .You started talking to be about hypothetically scenarios where the theif wont backstab , if the target goes Backwords and doesnt show his back .I am here to continue hypothetical scenarios you fond of .

I asked you the name of the game that has the same mechanics in stealth and you told me its Dota.Now i am telling you to use Dota anti-stealth mechanics , and you are trying to say that we dont need those ..

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Being hard cc'd while stealth pulls you out, but doesn't reveal you (unless you were hit by an engineer with the trait to reveal you) Stealth should be lost on dodge, dash, or any other movement action other than running. This prevents them from evading revealing skills. Sorry daredevil, but you traded in stealth for evasion.

When gaining stealth in a field, it functions similar to shadow refuge where if up walk out before the field. This will give the enemy a window to drop an aoe. Use smoke fields out of line of sight of the enemy.

Finally, that stupid deadeye skill which stealths you and removes reveal needs a rework.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@archmagus.7249 said:Being hard cc'd while stealth pulls you out, but doesn't reveal you (unless you were hit by an engineer with the trait to reveal you) Stealth should be lost on dodge, dash, or any other movement action other than running. This prevents them from evading revealing skills. Sorry daredevil, but you traded in stealth for evasion.

When gaining stealth in a field, it functions similar to shadow refuge where if up walk out before the field. This will give the enemy a window to drop an aoe. Use smoke fields out of line of sight of the enemy.

Finally, that stupid deadeye skill which stealths you and removes reveal needs a rework.Lol so using stealth feild would be suicide, good idea face palm.

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kash.9213

kash.9213

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Posted

@archmagus.7249 said:Being hard cc'd while stealth pulls you out, but doesn't reveal you (unless you were hit by an engineer with the trait to reveal you) Stealth should be lost on dodge, dash, or any other movement action other than running. This prevents them from evading revealing skills. Sorry daredevil, but you traded in stealth for evasion.

When gaining stealth in a field, it functions similar to shadow refuge where if up walk out before the field. This will give the enemy a window to drop an aoe. Use smoke fields out of line of sight of the enemy.

Finally, that stupid deadeye skill which stealths you and removes reveal needs a rework.

As long as other classes have to be rooted while casting or dropping circles, sure.

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Excursion.9752

Excursion.9752

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I've always thought that a player that is using a stealth skill should be able to see everyone else that is stealthing at the same time. Once a player comes out of stealth then they lose the ability to view stealthed players. This would make it more of a tactical piece. It would be a game changer for zergs that's for sure. The Mesmer veils and engineer stealth gyro blasting would become way more interesting in my opinion.

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