Some classes don't have damage issues, just survivability problems

[mrauls.6519]

• Revert Deflecting Shot cast time
• Revert Surge of the Mists cast time
• Give Mirage two dodges again

That'd be a good start. Small stuff

[Vancho.8750]

@"mrauls.6519" said:

• Revert Deflecting Shot cast time
• Revert Surge of the Mists cast time
• Give Mirage two dodges again

That'd be a good start. Small stuffI'm willing to give a Crono rework to mid support or power sidenode brawler if we make the broken design of Mirage unplayable. Some stuff are just way to OP from their design and no amount of number tweaking would help them.For the other 2 they have been put inline with the rest of the hard ccs which have 3/4 cast time, even though surge should be 3/4 and not 1/2 cast time.

[bravan.3876]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:

• Revert Deflecting Shot cast time
• Revert Surge of the Mists cast time
• Give Mirage two dodges again

That'd be a good start. Small stuffI'm willing to give a Crono rework to mid support or power sidenode brawler if we make the broken design of Mirage unplayable. Some stuff are just way to OP from their design and no amount of number tweaking would help them.

If this would be true, Powermirage would have been an issue too, what never was the case. Better inform yourself before claiming wrong stuff with zero evidence and not even based on logical arguments. MC and IH both can be balanced and skilled and most of that was giving pre patch already by the several nerfs were done before. The only remaining root problem was Condimirage because of the wrong designed condi ambushes (and broken Chaostraitline and its good synergy to Mirage traits). Otherwise lets give Spellbreaker zero dodges as trade off, they get a very short cd block+other offensive and defensive rewards instead, should be enough to sustain himself and do dmg. Aside from being forgiving facetanky as hell in additon and even pre patch in possession of more endurance reggen and dodges (incl weaponsskills) than Mirage, with an overall higher defensive rotation uptime (inlcuding non dodge defense like blocks and invuln). And most evades on Warrior even did more dmg than any Mirage build. How about that? Should sound very reasonable from your PoV!If you want to make the game more and more unfun and clunky and lower skill ceiling by deleting active gameplay options and build diversity, by killing skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity with contradicting or deleting needed mechanics, then lets do that nonsense to all classes. Lets also delete the ability to cast while moving, skill canceling by weapon stowing and jump dodges and lets delete every instant skill in the game, because combos and the other kitten is only for pros and GW2 is a casual game will reward noobs for nothing. So i can then just stop playing this game and all the plebs can be amoug themself, win-win.

[Vancho.8750]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:

• Revert Deflecting Shot cast time
• Revert Surge of the Mists cast time
• Give Mirage two dodges again

That'd be a good start. Small stuffI'm willing to give a Crono rework to mid support or power sidenode brawler if we make the broken design of Mirage unplayable. Some stuff are just way to OP from their design and no amount of number tweaking would help them.

If this would be true, Powermirage would have been an issue too, what never was the case. Better inform yourself before claiming wrong stuff with zero evidence and not even based on logical arguments. MC and IH both can be balanced and skilled and most of that was giving pre patch already by the several nerfs were done before. The only remaining root problem was Condimirage because of the wrong designed condi ambushes (and broken Chaostraitline and its good synergy to Mirage traits). Otherwise lets give Spellbreaker zero dodges as trade off, they get a very short cd block+other offensive and defensive rewards instead, should be enough to sustain himself and do dmg. Aside from being forgiving facetanky as hell in additon and even pre patch in possession of more endurance reggen and dodges (incl weaponsskills) than Mirage, with an overall higher defensive rotation uptime (inlcuding non dodge defense like blocks and invuln). And most evades on Warrior even did more dmg than any Mirage build. How about that? Should sound very reasonable from your PoV!If you want to make the game more and more unfun and clunky and lower skill ceiling by deleting active gameplay options and build diversity, by killing skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity with contradicting or deleting needed mechanics, then lets do that nonsense to all classes. Lets also delete the ability to cast while moving, skill canceling by weapon stowing and jump dodges and lets delete every instant skill in the game, because combos and the other kitten is only for pros and GW2 is a casual game will reward noobs for nothing. So i can then just stop playing this game and all the plebs can be amoug themself, win-win.

Complaining about SB while forgetting that Berserker is still not played even after they fixed some some stuff in the rework. I bet that mirage is still better then berserker, maybe in 2 years Mirage will get a rework like Berserker and be somewhat viable.Also Spellbreaker is kinda ending in can kill and can be killed department, it is not great outside small battles and it can be tweaked with numbers while every attempt they made to bring mirage in line didn't do much since the core of the elite is broken by design, it was always made to be condition duelist but they gave it too much of everything and it was good in everything , so now it is back to the drawing table till they find a way to make it fair.

[bravan.3876]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:

• Revert Deflecting Shot cast time
• Revert Surge of the Mists cast time
• Give Mirage two dodges again

That'd be a good start. Small stuffI'm willing to give a Crono rework to mid support or power sidenode brawler if we make the broken design of Mirage unplayable. Some stuff are just way to OP from their design and no amount of number tweaking would help them.

If this would be true, Powermirage would have been an issue too, what never was the case. Better inform yourself before claiming wrong stuff with zero evidence and not even based on logical arguments. MC and IH both can be balanced and skilled and most of that was giving pre patch already by the several nerfs were done before. The only remaining root problem was Condimirage because of the wrong designed condi ambushes (and broken Chaostraitline and its good synergy to Mirage traits). Otherwise lets give Spellbreaker zero dodges as trade off, they get a very short cd block+other offensive and defensive rewards instead, should be enough to sustain himself and do dmg. Aside from being forgiving facetanky as hell in additon and even pre patch in possession of more endurance reggen and dodges (incl weaponsskills) than Mirage, with an overall higher defensive rotation uptime (inlcuding non dodge defense like blocks and invuln). And most evades on Warrior even did more dmg than any Mirage build. How about that? Should sound very reasonable from your PoV!If you want to make the game more and more unfun and clunky and lower skill ceiling by deleting active gameplay options and build diversity, by killing skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity with contradicting or deleting needed mechanics, then lets do that nonsense to all classes. Lets also delete the ability to cast while moving, skill canceling by weapon stowing and jump dodges and lets delete every instant skill in the game, because combos and the other kitten is only for pros and GW2 is a casual game will reward noobs for nothing. So i can then just stop playing this game and all the plebs can be amoug themself, win-win.

Complaining about SB while forgetting that Berserker is still not played even after they fixed some some stuff in the rework. I bet that mirage is still better then berserker, maybe in 2 years Mirage will get a rework like Berserker and be somewhat viable.Also Spellbreaker is kinda ending in can kill and can be killed department, it is not great outside small battles and it can be tweaked with numbers while every attempt they made to bring mirage in line didn't do much since the core of the elite is broken by design, it was always made to be condition duelist but they gave it too much of everything and it was good in everything , so now it is back to the drawing table till they find a way to make it fair.

Gosh ppl like you trigger me so hard, but thanks for proving my point. Clueless bronze propaganda never gets sarcasm. I cannot believe that you don't even get, that i am not seriously suggesting those nonsense changes to Spellbreaker, i am also not crying about the spec. I don't mind Spellbreaker at all. I didn't rly expect any high IQ stuff in this forum, but that is cringe...I just made the same nonsense talk you did to Mirage just to Spellbreaker with the little difference that i even mentioned facts while doing so (zero dodges woud still be totally nonsense, but not from your PoV if your PoV would not be that anti Mirage biased. -> can you even follow that double reflection move? I guess not).

Also what is that for an argument? Chrono is not playable either, what does that have to do with op mechanics from other elites of the same class? Spellbreaker can die and is only good in small fights? But Condimirage was immortal? Condimirage is/was good in teamfights? Nothing they did to Mirage (including the one dodge change) ever solved the real issue from Condimirage by its roots. And that was neither MC nor IH. You make no sense at all, better stop posting before you hurt yourself when you accidently read what you wrote.

[Ovark.2514]

Bad idea. These were important changes for the health of the game and need to stay.

[mrauls.6519]

@Ovark.2514 said:Bad idea. These were important changes for the health of the game and need to stay.

They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Vancho.8750 cmirage wasnt good at everything, it sucked against thief, it sucked in large scale figts (3v3+) and it had hard counters on the side lanes.It had many issues of which could be fixed easy peasy.It was passive, and easy to be OK on, it also HARD countered you if you didnt spec into condi cleanse, and since 90% of players are incapable of adjusting their metabattle builds they always lack condiclear or have too much of it.

[bravan.3876]

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@Ovark.2514 said:Bad idea. These were important changes for the health of the game and need to stay.

They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

Indeed. But i would add, that some classes still need a sustain (in particular facetank sustain) reduction. But that is on the table anyway as far as i heard from the CmC interview. Same for some Ranger pet dmg.

Also in case of Mirage you cannot just give 2 dodges back, Mirage would probably be op then (even on power). You need to adjust ambushes for power (like the Mesmers own ambush on gs does too much dmg and can get a little nerf, maybe also a very little reduction in might/vuln stacks, just fine adjust that carefully) and the condi ambushes need to be reworked (i made some suggestions for an easy rework, should be not too much effort) but will add skill ceiling to Condimirage while rly solving the issues it has instead just overnerfing the IH/ ambush mechanic into uselessness and make it even more passive and dodgespammy.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Cast time on Surge of the Mists is fine if that is part of their new vision, just make the user able to move during the wind up. Or at the very least, rotate.

Not much of an Engi player at all, but from an outside perspective, the self-knockback from Overcharged Shot should be removed, or perhaps given an evade during the self-knockback. Seems unnecessarily punishing to the user.

[bethekey.8314]

@"mrauls.6519" said:They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

What do you think is easier and safer, changing animation speeds and coefficients or designing entirely new animations and skills?

[bravan.3876]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Cast time on Surge of the Mists is fine if that is part of their new vision, just make the user able to move during the wind up.Sounds good.Disagree to the Engi rifle suggestion.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bethekey.8314 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

What do you think is easier and safer, changing animation speeds and coefficients or designing entirely new animations and skills?

whats easier, amputating sick limb or testing whats the couse of its malfunctioning and fixing it?Mechanical changes absolutely have to happen, in almost every single proffesion. every single prof I have played had things that NEED to change mechanically.

[bravan.3876]

@bethekey.8314 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

What do you think is easier and safer, changing animation speeds and coefficients or designing entirely new animations and skills?

The Deflection Shot speed was not unhealthy fast. With the dmg reduction it is even less of an issue. Some stuff is simple overacting. Maybe try 0,5 instead 0,74 secs and see how it feels for the Dh player and for the opponent then.

[mrauls.6519]

@bravan.3876 said:

@bethekey.8314 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

What do you think is easier and safer, changing animation speeds and coefficients or designing entirely new animations and skills?

The Deflection Shot speed was not unhealthy fast. With the dmg reduction it is even less of an issue. Some stuff is simple overacting. Maybe try 0,5 instead 0,74 secs and see how it feels for the Dh player and for the opponent then.

Anyone that thought/thinks Deflecting Shot is too strong is crazy. You actually have to choose the path it travels. It NEEDS to be a fast skill. Otherwise, make it a targeted skill like Ranger's knockback...

[mrauls.6519]

@bravan.3876 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@Ovark.2514 said:Bad idea. These were important changes for the health of the game and need to stay.

They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

Indeed. But i would add, that some classes still need a sustain (in particular facetank sustain) reduction. But that is on the table anyway as far as i heard from the CmC interview. Same for some Ranger pet dmg.

Also in case of Mirage you cannot just give 2 dodges back, Mirage would probably be op then (even on power). You need to adjust ambushes for power (like the Mesmers own ambush on gs does too much dmg and can get a little nerf, maybe also a very little reduction in might/vuln stacks, just fine adjust that carefully) and the condi ambushes need to be reworked (i made some suggestions for an easy rework, should be not too much effort) but will add skill ceiling to Condimirage while rly solving the issues it has instead just overnerfing the IH/ ambush mechanic into uselessness and make it even more passive and dodgespammy.

Mesmer players have told me that certain ambushes were/are busted. Watching Mesmer mains suffer because they only have one dodge sucks. It wouldn't be an issue if variants were viable at a high level for core Mesmer and Chronomancer, but they aren't

[bethekey.8314]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:whats easier, amputating sick limb or testing whats the couse of its malfunctioning and fixing it?Mechanical changes absolutely have to happen, in almost every single proffesion. every single prof I have played had things that NEED to change mechanically.

Your analogy is strange here. Are you arguing that amputating a limb and replacing it with a prosthesis isn't a mechanical change?

And I agree that mechanical changes are needed. I do believe, however, that many on these forums have unrealistic expectations of Anet's resources. For example, I'd rather see more balance patches like CMC's coefficient adjustments every month than complete mechanistic overhauls every 6 months. The former to me is the more realistic, faster way to achieve decent balance.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bethekey.8314 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:whats easier, amputating sick limb or testing whats the couse of its malfunctioning and fixing it?Mechanical changes absolutely have to happen, in almost every single proffesion. every single prof I have played had things that NEED to change mechanically.

Your analogy is strange here. Are you arguing that amputating a limb and replacing it with a prosthesis isn't a mechanical change?

And I agree that mechanical changes are needed. I do believe, however, that many on these forums have unrealistic expectations of Anet's resources. For example, I'd rather see more balance patches like CMC's coefficient adjustments every month than complete mechanistic overhauls every 6 months. The former to me is the more realistic, faster way to achieve decent balance.

I ment chop chop and the work is done, no more hand no more boo boo.Pets are mechanically broken.Mesmers axe is mechanically brokenLR is brokenMudslide is brokenetc etc etc etc, and I bet every class has stuff that just should not exist.

[bethekey.8314]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I ment chop chop and the work is done, no more hand no more boo boo.Pets are mechanically broken.Mesmers axe is mechanically brokenLR is brokenMudslide is brokenetc etc etc etc, and I bet every class has stuff that just should not exist.

Oh, I agree that deleting things is easy. It's the replacing part that's the problem.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bethekey.8314 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

What do you think is easier and safer, changing animation speeds and coefficients or designing entirely new animations and skills?

The Deflection Shot speed was not unhealthy fast. With the dmg reduction it is even less of an issue. Some stuff is simple overacting. Maybe try 0,5 instead 0,74 secs and see how it feels for the Dh player and for the opponent then.

Anyone that thought/thinks Deflecting Shot is too strong is crazy. You actually have to choose the path it travels. It NEEDS to be a fast skill. Otherwise, make it a targeted skill like Ranger's knockback...

It needs its full damage back tbh. All of it.

[mrauls.6519]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bethekey.8314 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

What do you think is easier and safer, changing animation speeds and coefficients or designing entirely new animations and skills?

The Deflection Shot speed was not unhealthy fast. With the dmg reduction it is even less of an issue. Some stuff is simple overacting. Maybe try 0,5 instead 0,74 secs and see how it feels for the Dh player and for the opponent then.

Anyone that thought/thinks Deflecting Shot is too strong is crazy. You actually have to choose the path it travels. It NEEDS to be a fast skill. Otherwise, make it a targeted skill like Ranger's knockback...

It needs its full damage back tbh. All of it.

A lot of CC skills need damage back. It's crazy how many times Deflecting Shot is part of the chain and I can't get a kill because "I'm out of DPS"

[Exedore.6320]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Not much of an Engi player at all, but from an outside perspective, the self-knockback from Overcharged Shot should be removed, or perhaps given an evade during the self-knockback. Seems unnecessarily punishing to the user.Overcharged shot should be instant again and keep the self-knockback. It was as much a defense as an attack. What made it too strong was holosmith having too many sources of stability, which has since been addressed. The self-knockback keeps it interesting.

[bravan.3876]

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@bethekey.8314 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

What do you think is easier and safer, changing animation speeds and coefficients or designing entirely new animations and skills?

The Deflection Shot speed was not unhealthy fast. With the dmg reduction it is even less of an issue. Some stuff is simple overacting. Maybe try 0,5 instead 0,74 secs and see how it feels for the Dh player and for the opponent then.

Anyone that thought/thinks Deflecting Shot is too strong is crazy. You actually have to choose the path it travels. It NEEDS to be a fast skill. Otherwise, make it a targeted skill like Ranger's knockback...

True, i would not have changed the travel speed at all. I just tried to make a compromise for the start, so whiners (and Anet) can get used to the idea^^

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@"mrauls.6519" said:

@Ovark.2514 said:Bad idea. These were important changes for the health of the game and need to stay.

They were poorly executed changes... I understand the reasoning, but these skills/mechanics are important to each profession. The next best thing would be to rework the skills/mechanics, because in their current state, they're just clunky

Indeed. But i would add, that some classes still need a sustain (in particular facetank sustain) reduction. But that is on the table anyway as far as i heard from the CmC interview. Same for some Ranger pet dmg.

Also in case of Mirage you cannot just give 2 dodges back, Mirage would probably be op then (even on power). You need to adjust ambushes for power (like the Mesmers own ambush on gs does too much dmg and can get a little nerf, maybe also a very little reduction in might/vuln stacks, just fine adjust that carefully) and the condi ambushes need to be reworked (i made some suggestions for an easy rework, should be not too much effort) but will add skill ceiling to Condimirage while rly solving the issues it has instead just overnerfing the IH/ ambush mechanic into uselessness and make it even more passive and dodgespammy.

Mesmer players have told me that certain ambushes were/are busted. Watching Mesmer mains suffer because they only have one dodge sucks. It wouldn't be an issue if variants were viable at a high level for core Mesmer and Chronomancer, but they aren't.

Mainly Condiambushes are problematic. Saying busted is a very trivial look at it. The problem is actually very complicated and i have the feeling that barely anyone understands it, just like barely anyone seems to understand the spec completely at all. Often even Mesmer mains don't. If you are not interested in understanding, you can skip the following wall of text:

Busted is not rly the correct term, the problems with condi-IH-Mirage exist not only because of the amount of dmg, it is the whole desing that is not good. Mirage's inherent spec costs limiting and balancing the strong MC mechanic are living from Mirage having high opportunity costs in dodge management and for that harder decision making for what to use dodges (offensive for ambushes, defensive for attack avoidance, for the clones to keep them up, for the clones to counter classes like Thief or Warrior who can get rewards from attacking clones, dodging cc or dodging only parts of the follow up for the costs of losing the own ambush and other not instant skills and not being able to move, to cover casts etc). The condi ambushes completely neutralize those inherent costs because they do not create any need nor incentive to dodge pure offensive to time ambush rewards from Mesmer and clones differently from pure defensive dodges for active, tactical and for that skilled outplays of the opponent or to combo them with other skills.

Neither do they create a trade off when eating a stun and only dodging part of the follow up because the passive dmg from clones on condi weapons was already that high, that a Condimirage didn't need to care for losing his own dmg for the cc duration. The dmg from clones also was that high, that Mirage was able to trait into a sustainline, which also is very passive and low skill ceiling (Chaos) what enabled facetanking and more mistakes for a bit more and with that lowered the costs of being stunned even more. Means Condimirage also neutralize cc reward for the opponent by around 90% without even using old EM trait (what was then a 100% cc neutralization and for that totally broken).

Means main reason for the Condimirage problem is, that most of the ambushes on Condiweapons (except staff) are only about pure dmg, not about utility effects like sword or gs. Ideal and easier to balance would be a rework of the condi ambushes to make them equally designed like sword or at least gs. Both weapons have effects (sword on clones even no dmg) creating the need and incentive to dodge offensive for active and tactical outplays but also have high combo potential with other skills, like selfbuff with gs and target debuff with sword and gs to prepare a burst/ as part of the burst combo. With both weapons you can do offensive shatter combos require offensive dodges. If this is given, the active part of the dodge trait IH overshines the little passive part you have always on dodge traits remarkable.

Staff has the potential but sadly it fails in the second requirement (that the dodge rewards are neither too strong nor too weak to make offensive dodging worth doing and the effect duration is also not allowed to be too long. It needs to be more like a short selfbuff or target debuff in preparation or as part of the burst combo, not a nearly permanent selfbuff/ debuff effect, that would lead into higher passivity again. On staff the effect duration is too long and additionally applied by simple autoattacks from the Mesmer and even his clones, means a Mesmer on staff with staff clones up will have nearly perma might and fury anyway. Also the dmg from staff clones on pure defensive dodges was already very high and for that rewarding enough, no need to waste a dodge offensive in addition. No Condimirage ever would have wasted a dodge to selfbuff with might or fury before a shattercombo. That would have been a misplay for 2 reasons: 1. It would not worth to waste a dodge because Chaos- Mirage with staff active has enough boons up anyway and even without boons still high passive dmg from clones even when only dodging pure defensive. 2. Clones do more condi dmg when staying alive and not being shattered. With other words on Condimirage with IH you even get punished when you try to play it active and skillful and with shatters.

You CAN have balanced and more active dodge traits even when they are only about pure dmg (no effects) but that is way way harder to achieve and way harder to balance. The pure dmg creates by itself clearly less need and incentive to dodge offensive because it is always a good time to do dmg (more or less, aside from invuln uptime on the target), but effects like a daze often need a different timing to be optimal used in a tactical manner. Just as offensive comboing with selfbuff or targetdebuff requires offensive dodging by itself. Pure dmg has way less limitation in how it is timed well. Means to make pure dmg dodge traits more active than passive you need to hit a very small equilibrium margin with the amount of dmg you get per dodge (not too weak otherwise it doesn't worth to use endurance offensive for it and it would only be a little passive side effect, but also not too strong so that pure defensive dodging is already more than enough reward to win a fight. First thing would not be a big problem, it turns the dodge trait into a simple passive dmg multiplier just as Superiority Complex for example. The second case is not only passive but then also broken because passivity can win the fight for you here). In case of Mirage, being able to dodge while stunned, you also need to make the dmg from clones low enough, that the Mirage can not make insane counerpressure just with clones during a stun/ hard cc while dodging the follow up. All in all just reworking the condi ambush mechanic towards more effect/ utility based ambushes comparable to sword and gs is the way better variant and will be easier to balance during all changes happen in the game as a whole.

The current one dodge change doesn't solve the issues of Condiambushes/IH, it just overnerfs the mechanic of IH so that Condimirage doesn't use it anymore. The one dodge change also completely contradicts the whole Mirage mechanic (just as the general dodge mechanic) by deleting all inherent costs/ opportunity costs and most of the harder decision making in Mirage's dodge management. With one dodge a Mirage simply cannot dodge pure offensive for active tactical outplays with ambushes most time anymore without being a freekill after. It makes no sense at all. It makes the mechanic even more passive and dodgespammy on cd without solving the issues Condiambushes still have. Instead it overnerfs and dumbs down even Powermirage for no good reason.

Mirage needs its 2 dodges to make the IH/Ambush mechanic function as intended by its creator. To have opportuntiy costs (at least with well designed ambushes) in dodge management. When you only can dodge pure defensive because no ressources for anything else, then there is no decision making, no active gameplay with a dodge trait possible.

Means in any case needs Mirage the 2 dodges back and instead Anet needs to do the little more effort to rework Condiambushes to more effect/ utility based ambushes and then fine adjust the dmg and effect reward on all of them and the gs ambush from the Mirage itself will need a little nerf (gs clones do not rly do that much dmg by their own, most dmg in gs comes from the Mesmers own ambush). Easy way to make Condimirage more skilled, more active and less toxic, and balance to a not op post patch lvl just by ambush design changes and nerfs.

@bethekey.8314 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I ment chop chop and the work is done, no more hand no more boo boo.Pets are mechanically broken.Mesmers axe is mechanically brokenLR is brokenMudslide is brokenetc etc etc etc, and I bet every class has stuff that just should not exist.

Oh, I agree that deleting things is easy. It's the replacing part that's the problem.

Changing doesn't mean deleting necessarily, it can just mean change. Best example once again is Mirage. You don't need to delete the whole ambush mechanic or the IH trait, all you need to do is to rework the design of the problematic condi ambushes (like scepter ambush should turn into an one hit skill and maybe apply a short root or chill instead just dmg).

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Not much of an Engi player at all, but from an outside perspective, the self-knockback from Overcharged Shot should be removed, or perhaps given an evade during the self-knockback. Seems unnecessarily punishing to the user.Overcharged shot should be instant again and keep the self-knockback. It was as much a defense as an attack. What made it too strong was holosmith having too many sources of stability, which has since been addressed. The self-knockback keeps it interesting.

NO, it is a hard (lock down) cc and even when the Engi ccs himself for a little bit, his teammates can use the whole cc duration for some free dmg. Hard lock down cc should not be instant. Other cc got casttime or was completely reworked because of that. Engi should not have a special treatment. The one and only cc can be instant without problems when being short duration (1s and less) is daze. I would give even most fear and taunt skills a casttime and animation (with very little exceptions where the instant cc is part of the defensive rotation to counter lock down, and were a casttime would make it clunky by contradicting its purpose, like on Necro shroud), even though they can be removed by condiclear too.

[Monkey See.1498]

Mesmer/Mirage is 100% hurting on the damage front. Unambiguously the least impactful class in terms of combat efficacy. Removing Deadshot+Wanterers and gutting all the expertise amulets which even among condition builds only Mesmer was really the only profession making heavy use of was a -50% damage output nerf on top of all the damage nerfs to things like Sharper Images and Duelist's Deception.

[Daishi.6027]

@bravan.3876 said:Also in case of Mirage you cannot just give 2 dodges back, Mirage would probably be op then (even on power).

I agree Condi needs to be reworked, but frankly I disagree regarding power.

Yes it hit's hard but currently Power Mirage lacks the ability to secure kills compared to more than half the roster, apart from it's same GS combo that has always been part of mesmer. However, unlike it's core counterpart Mirrage cannot afford to slot chaos with it's reliance on dom and dueling. Going this glassy and taking lines for pretty much full damage, giving up it's ability to hide it's burst; should kill much more reliably than it currently does. In addition it currently makes these attempts at such a greater risk than what is afforded to more than half the roster. Plus slotting chaos does not offer it enough utility or sustain to make up for the damage loss, and it's the same story for inspiration. Either way it's a dead-end build that functions mediocre at best. To me it literally feels like playing a thief with base 8 ini, which sure I can still kill... and surely people do what they can with the worst of handicaps. But it is in no way fair or balanced.

Also we're talking about damage that comes at the cost of using your evade offensively; this should be impactful otherwise there is no point. Plus the damage coming from the player and not ramp from clone spam offers more than enough counterplay and ease to avoid, which is part of the condi problem.