Necros community..

[silent killer.5732]

Lets all cry about how strong the theives are until they nerf it.

As i said in different threatIm totally fine with removing the whole sand shade mechanic but we want instead of it good mobility and resistance to negate all the damages for what ever amount of seconds.

This game already unfair to us in terms of fighting any aoe classess

And once the nerf is coming we will be upsolote trash again.

[Razor.6392]

you know what I don't get, the fact that both of these problematic specs (SB and scourge) weren't even designed with PVE in mind. Spellbreaker is obvious and about Scourge I don't think in PVE you have tons of boons to corrupt constantly, not even in raids afaik, coupled with the most ineffective condition for pve (torment) AND YET THEY'RE SOMEHOW INCREDIBLY BROKEN AGAINST ACTUAL PLAYERS.

How? I honestly don't get it. It's not like Deadeye where buffing in pve would break it on pvp and viceversa, or Holosmith. These specs were made for pvp, and they managed to become incredibly over the top to the point of draining the fun out of the game.

8 (6.5) seconds for an aoe counter of the size of the node that does everything except maybe stealth. Literal AOE spam on small nodes (people DID complain a lot about DH and their traps taking entire points) on scourge that does not encourage smart play from the necros... what have we learned from HoT?

[Darknicrofia.2604]

Scourge is actually top in all 3 game modes atm.

Pvp? CheckWvW? CheckRaids? #1 DPS on small hitbox

[silent killer.5732]

@Razor.6392 said:you know what I don't get, the fact that both of these problematic specs (SB and scourge) weren't even designed with PVE in mind. Spellbreaker is obvious and about Scourge I don't think in PVE you have tons of boons to corrupt constantly, not even in raids afaik, coupled with the most ineffective condition for pve (torment) AND YET THEY'RE SOMEHOW INCREDIBLY BROKEN AGAINST ACTUAL PLAYERS.

How? I honestly don't get it. It's not like Deadeye where buffing in pve would break it on pvp and viceversa, or Holosmith. These specs were made for pvp, and they managed to become incredibly over the top to the point of draining the fun out of the game.

8 (6.5) seconds for an aoe counter of the size of the node that does everything except maybe stealth. Literal AOE spam on small nodes (people DID complain a lot about DH and their traps taking entire points) on scourge that does not encourage smart play from the necros... what have we learned from HoT?

I see you..

You were enjoying killing the necros with ease thats why its not fun anymore facing those sand shades.

I saw a lot of good mesmer people who think the reaper just too trash to concider him as worthy enemy and thats the case with all those different aoe classesSome of them just one shot usSome of them ranged attack us with their bowAnd some just jump on us and high dps the necro just like thatIts all good but when the table has turned its not enjoyable game anymore?

We wasn't enjoy too but we love that class so most of us didint switch

[Thornwolf.9721]

This is why making Specs based around pvp ALONE is a horrible idea, make them based around all game modes and to be viable in all game modes is what is the key to balance as a whole and practicality. Making it for one game mode alone is shit deving, and a poor design choice over in itself.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

Lol... Chrono was broken for 3 years thiefs are broken forever and DH is a broken mechanics, no matter how nerfed it is... and Now comes scourge, the linethat separates the OP for the unsuitable is so thin (due to low defenses) that a small modification can put a class into oblivion, but every mesmer, DH and thief seems to forget that this is a game and today you are on top tomorrow you are not... these are the same ppl who didnt change their utilities bar...Mesmer has a transfer of arcane thievery that is probably the best transfer in the game... if you are playing Condi Mirage with sage you will MELT a scourge in seconds making they pay for they own application... But mesmer is too important and it cannot lose a portal or mobility, then better is to nerf whoever is preventing them to play their 7 buttons push...DH is the same, FB has so many condi cleans it can survive against a Scourge IN THE POINT for centuries... But most of guardians wanna still push 3 buttons in DH and area of denial...thiefs are still a hard counter if played right, even for scourge... DE is nightmare, DD you need to burst right, otherwise they will melt you as well...

For spellbreaker... War always have been a counter to thiefs, not due to FC but mainly due to CC, Spellbreaker has lower access to high CC - Headbutt, or Bull, but a 'small' CC Daze in FC, also the dmg is not as big as core war or old zerker., what has increased the length of the encounters.. for mesmers (used to kill war in 1 vs 1) Now they cant shatter and press 2,3 in sequency, and War has a lot of resistance to deal with their condi burst. they get frustrated, but still a mirage goes very well against spellbreaker if played right... (they same way that warrior had to play against chronos in the past). It's easy to complain when your class is not on top....

FC is the best thing that has happened to this game, I would not change a bit, for scourge, I think the mechanics in general was a big mistake (huge mistake), if they nerf adding a casting or decreasing the burst, will enable ppl just to sit in front of scourge (not dying) and the scourge will face palm all dmg cause he has nothing else to do...

DH is other class that suffers from same bad design... LB, pierce, knock and area of denial added to blocks is still stronger than any other mechanics in the game (even scourge).

If I was Anet I would not nerf any of this classes meantime I'm seeing ppl doing 0 to adapt... it's just crying and desire to go back on top.

[Kaga.7629]

@Razor.6392 said:about Scourge I don't think in PVE you have tons of boons to corrupt constantly, not even in raids afaik, coupled with the most ineffective condition for pve (torment) AND YET THEY'RE SOMEHOW INCREDIBLY BROKEN AGAINST ACTUAL PLAYERS.

How? I honestly don't get it.

PvE has huge hp pools to fight against. With scourges, they made it so it would apply lots of torment, and then gave them traits that increases the base damage and does additional effects, like putting burns and other things as bonus. They also gave them swirlies delivering (hence) lots of multi-layered condi as a result (torment being an integral part of the spike, and also acting as a proc for other things).PvP healthpools are much lower. 4-6K/second condips is literal facemelter in spvp. Like hit that cleanse or you're dead in 4 seconds type of thing. Also of note : the swirlies are big, sometimes as big as the cap. All the swirls also proc on other effects, like vampiric auras (3 swirlies, 7 hits per swirly, 30-70hp-steal per hit... goes fast. and also goes thru defenses) Even if you block the swirlies you're getting hit by the condips.

Literal AOE spam on small nodes (people DID complain a lot about DH and their traps taking entire points) on scourge that does not encourage smart play from the necros... what have we learned from HoT?

Nothing obviously. Guard traps still aren't split for pvp, even after all the "shave" ( a classic case of setting up damage numbers for pve on HoT release, and then realising people were getting literally gibbed by 2 DH trapping a cap. shocker) .

They never learned from the engineer turret debacle neither ( boosting numbers to make turrets viable in pve with ridonculous, champion-level healthpools . Not splitting for pvp. Leading to the "Invincible turrets" or 25 turret comp era of pvp.)

As for spellbreaker, since i'm talking about my main ( and 97% of the pie, 6300+ games) i'll say this in it's defense.1) Spellbreaker is designed ( and pretty damn good) at taking care of all those invincible, boon heavy bunker builds like defensive druids, bunker elly/guards and even defensive Revs when you get down to it. The bunkers suddenly have to deal with their boons not being as reliable as before, and that's a good thing. let them experience mortality instead of buffing and chicken dancing on a cap.2) There is a l2p part to it. A lot of people will not evolve their playstyle to compensate . A TON of people Walk into Winds of disenchantments ( the new war elite), have their boons melt to doodoo and then complain the boonstrip is too strong...3) There is a Salt component. Some people see warriors only as a free kill, and will do and say anything to keep it this way. Most of the losers asking for the most extreme nerfs were also saying there was nothing wrong with Deadeye on the first week , and l2p ( where a stealth glitch made the sniping from stealth actually possible and easely done) . Funny enough all those "Teef" now rerolled to scourges ( nicknamed affectionally as "scum" by spvp vets).

[silent killer.5732]

@Kaga.7629 said:

@Razor.6392 said:about Scourge I don't think in PVE you have tons of boons to corrupt constantly, not even in raids afaik, coupled with the most ineffective condition for pve (torment) AND YET THEY'RE SOMEHOW INCREDIBLY BROKEN AGAINST ACTUAL PLAYERS.

How? I honestly don't get it.

PvE has huge hp pools to fight against. With scourges, they made it so it would apply lots of torment, and then gave them traits that increases the base damage and does additional effects, like putting burns and other things as bonus. They also gave them swirlies delivering (hence) lots of multi-layered condi as a result (torment being an integral part of the spike, and also acting as a proc for other things).PvP healthpools are much lower. 4-6K/second condips is literal facemelter in spvp. Like hit that cleanse or you're dead in 4 seconds type of thing. Also of note : the swirlies are big, sometimes as big as the cap. All the swirls also proc on other effects, like vampiric auras (3 swirlies, 7 hits per swirly, 30-70hp-steal per hit... goes fast. and also goes thru defenses) Even if you block the swirlies you're getting hit by the condips.

Literal AOE spam on small nodes (people DID complain a lot about DH and their traps taking entire points) on scourge that does

not

encourage smart play from the necros... what have we learned from HoT?

Nothing

obviously. Guard traps still aren't split for pvp, even after all the "shave" ( a classic case of setting up damage numbers for pve on HoT release, and then realising people were getting literally gibbed by 2 DH trapping a cap.

shocker

) .

They never learned from the engineer

turret debacle

neither ( boosting numbers to make turrets viable in pve with ridonculous, champion-level healthpools . Not splitting for pvp. Leading to the "Invincible turrets" or 25 turret comp era of pvp.)

As for spellbreaker, since i'm talking about my main ( and 97% of the pie, 6300+ games) i'll say this in it's defense.1) Spellbreaker is designed ( and pretty kitten good) at taking care of all those invincible, boon heavy bunker builds like defensive druids, bunker elly/guards and even defensive Revs when you get down to it. The bunkers suddenly have to deal with their boons not being as reliable as before, and that's a good thing. let them experience mortality instead of buffing and chicken dancing on a cap.2) There is a l2p part to it. A lot of people will not evolve their playstyle to compensate . A TON of people Walk into Winds of disenchantments ( the new war elite), have their boons melt to doodoo and then complain the boonstrip is too strong...3) There is a Salt component. Some people see warriors only as a free kill, and will do and say anything to keep it this way. Most of the losers asking for the most extreme nerfs were also saying there was nothing wrong with Deadeye on the first week , and l2p ( where a stealth glitch made the sniping from stealth actually possible and easely done) . Funny enough all those "Teef" now rerolled to scourges ( nicknamed affectionally as "scum" by spvp vets).

Its just time to feel "they are the free kills if they come close "

[Hana.8143]

One of the worst thing about scouge is probably (with the ability to put torment / burning) the fact they can apply cripple and trash condi.How many time, during the first second of the fight, I ended up having all types of condi, 30 sec of cripple and 15stacks of torments + some extra burning.You shouldn’t be able to proc instantly 15 stacks of torment with 5 other different conditions.When fighting a scourge, I feel like I have to clean the torment, if not I’m dead, I have to clean the burning if not I’m dead, I have to clean the cripple if not I won’t be able to kite the scourge and will eventually die because it can applies conditions again, but I have poison, weakness, chill that I have to clean too.

It’s just too much. And when you’re caught... It’s GG.

Last time, was fighting a scourge the way I’m supposed to fight. I was in PvP holding a point, I left the point did my ranged attacks, put him at 20%, but he had time to decap, take the point (because going on small point while a scourge is here is pure suicid) while a teammate came to help and finish the opponent.I didn’t die, but end up losing the point.Is it ok for you scourges to be able to take a point because you just have too much aoe pressure ?It’s like fighting a bunker ventari rev, it’s those kind of mechanics that make the game so unpleasant.Dps should dps, bunker should hold the point, not being able to decap/cap in such a small amount of time.

[Amityel.5324]

ventari rev how many pple complianed about it........now compare it to scourge hate.....you know it will get nerfhammer and pretty hard nerfhammer enjoy your month necros

[Ashgar.3024]

Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.

I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.

The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

[silent killer.5732]

@Amityel.5324 said:ventari rev how many pple complianed about it........now compare it to scourge hate.....you know it will get nerfhammer and pretty hard nerfhammer enjoy your month necros

Because you all are crying babies

As i said if we want anet to do something about the theives we maybe needs to become crying babies just like those who cry about standing on the sand shades hurts a lot =)

You better learn to accept

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.

I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.

The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

This should have been done from the start... Anet really made a big mistake... Necros were crying for defensive capabilities, they created a support high dps AOE class... Now I wanna see how they will fix it without put the class into oblivion... Scourge was a big mistake... even if DPS is nerfed the AOE spam still gonna be there, and worse of all it will force ppl to focus even more the necro, and necro without defenses will just face palm the damage... BIG HUGE MISTAKE for Anet...

Again I state that DH and Chrono had same issue as mechanics broken and it could never be fixed completely... You can nerf as much you want, 2 things will happen: or you kill the class, or it's too OP.

[silent killer.5732]

@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.

I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.

The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

[Razor.6392]

I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

[Wintermute.5408]

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

Because in many aspects Scourge is WEAKER than Reaper? No shroud. No mobility. No stability. Meanwhile, it suffers from all the same problems necros do. Literally the only thing it has is its damage and area control. Take it away, and spec becomes useless. About as simple as that.

As a byproduct, damage nerfs have good chance of killing necro in PVE yet again.

[silent killer.5732]

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

I said that because if they nerf it at the level you ask for it will be useless againIts not like we are immune to death thoThe same way we have been killed by. Still working on us and even more and thats factAnd we didn't ask for anyone to get nerf tho all we ask right now isWe want mobility and resistance if they want to remake the scourge.

And if they just want to nerf it thats also fine but let they nerf the aoe classes too other than that we are will remain worthless piece of...

Say it with your full mouth. Thats what you want all.

To seal the beast to enjoy with your classes again

Crying babies

Have you ever been in trouble vs any kind of reapers? As i assume you are an ele with unrealistic dps oh i forgot your been crying about how the necro got dabble life bar so you couldn't one shot us because our death shroud saved us every time eles tried to burst as

Now what stop you from killing the scourge instantly?

[Ashgar.3024]

@silent killer.5732 said:We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

And i imagine you can see how that design can cause issues in a game mode like Conquest that encourages people to stand and often clump together in a specific area.

The scourge is meant for support, it was marketed as such and the fact it flat out introduced an entirely new defensive mechanism cements that fact.

If Barriers are undertuned to the point the only way Scourge can be viable is to act as an AoE DPS. They need to be buffed while toning down its dps.

I mean if Scourge stays the way it is now, what's the purpose of Reapers?

[silent killer.5732]

@Griever.8150 said:

@silent killer.5732 said:We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

And i imagine you can see how that design can cause issues in a game mode like Conquest that encourages people to stand and often clump together in a specific area.

The scourge is meant for support, it was marketed as such and the fact it flat out introduced an entirely new defensive mechanism cements that fact.

If Barriers are undertuned to the point the only way Scourge can be viable is to act as an AoE DPS. They need to be buffed while toning down its dps.

I mean if Scourge stays the way it is now, what's the purpose of Reapers?

Just let them put us on clear label what are us?

I think this specialization is pure condi with the ability to share all of our skills with our allays

We don't mind any kind of nerfs but we need to be on clear label if we ranged class let the dev extend our range because now we only got 900 range and we need good teleporting skills like what the thief and the mesmers got . If we are melee class let them give us the resistance to survive a bit like the guardens and the warriors got

Or you all have to learn how to accept this class if you don't want us to have those abilities

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Wintermute.5408 said:

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

Because in many aspects Scourge is WEAKER than Reaper? No shroud. No mobility. No stability. Meanwhile, it suffers from all the same problems necros do. Literally the only thing it has is its damage and area control. Take it away, and spec becomes useless. About as simple as that.

As a byproduct, damage nerfs have good chance of killing necro in PVE yet again.

Which wouldn't be a problem if they would split it. Seriously, they had this figured out in GW1; did they suffer collective amnesia or something? Regardless, I don't think that it's fair to leave a horribly toxic situation to fester in PvP due to their issues balancing raids.

@silent killer.5732 said:

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

I said that because if they nerf it at the level you ask for it will be useless againIts not like we are immune to death thoThe same way we have been killed by. Still working on us and even more and thats factAnd we didn't ask for anyone to get nerf tho all we ask right now isWe want mobility and resistance if they want to remake the scourge.

And if they just want to nerf it thats also fine but let they nerf the aoe classes too other than that we are will remain worthless piece of...

Say it with your full mouth. Thats what you want all.

To seal the beast to enjoy with your classes again

Crying babies

Have you ever been in trouble vs any kind of reapers? As i assume you are an ele with unrealistic dps oh i forgot your been crying about how the necro got dabble life bar so you couldn't one shot us because our death shroud saved us every time eles tried to burst as

Now what stop you from killing the scourge instantly?

I want Necros to be strong. However, I do not want the outcome of a game to revolve almost entirely around the number of Scourges on each team, as it tends to now. I don't want entire professions to be forced out of the meta because of one or two builds.

[silent killer.5732]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Wintermute.5408 said:

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

Because in many aspects Scourge is WEAKER than Reaper? No shroud. No mobility. No stability. Meanwhile, it suffers from all the same problems necros do. Literally the only thing it has is its damage and area control. Take it away, and spec becomes useless. About as simple as that.

As a byproduct, damage nerfs have good chance of killing necro in PVE yet again.

Which wouldn't be a problem if they would split it. Seriously, they had this figured out in GW1; did they suffer collective amnesia or something? Regardless, I don't think that it's fair to leave a horribly toxic situation to fester in PvP due to their issues balancing raids.

@silent killer.5732 said:

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

I said that because if they nerf it at the level you ask for it will be useless againIts not like we are immune to death thoThe same way we have been killed by. Still working on us and even more and thats factAnd we didn't ask for anyone to get nerf tho all we ask right now isWe want mobility and resistance if they want to remake the scourge.

And if they just want to nerf it thats also fine but let they nerf the aoe classes too other than that we are will remain worthless piece of...

Say it with your full mouth. Thats what you want all.

To seal the beast to enjoy with your classes again

Crying babies

Have you ever been in trouble vs any kind of reapers? As i assume you are an ele with unrealistic dps oh i forgot your been crying about how the necro got dabble life bar so you couldn't one shot us because our death shroud saved us every time eles tried to burst as

Now what stop you from killing the scourge instantly?

I want Necros to be strong. However, I do not want the outcome of a game to revolve almost entirely around the number of Scourges on each team, as it tends to now. I don't want entire professions to be forced out of the meta because of one or two builds.

We want this tooBut i know for a fact they will only nerf this spec and the spellbreaker and the game will be even harder for us because they will leave the thieves and the rangers as what they are right nowNot to mention the new guarden elite specialization is way to powerful and they can survive even with the scourge is op atmSo what the game will be after the nerf?

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@silent killer.5732 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Wintermute.5408 said:

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

Because in many aspects Scourge is WEAKER than Reaper? No shroud. No mobility. No stability. Meanwhile, it suffers from all the same problems necros do. Literally the only thing it has is its damage and area control. Take it away, and spec becomes useless. About as simple as that.

As a byproduct, damage nerfs have good chance of killing necro in PVE yet again.

Which wouldn't be a problem if they would split it. Seriously, they had this figured out in GW1; did they suffer collective amnesia or something? Regardless, I don't think that it's fair to leave a horribly toxic situation to fester in PvP due to their issues balancing raids.

@silent killer.5732 said:

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

I said that because if they nerf it at the level you ask for it will be useless againIts not like we are immune to death thoThe same way we have been killed by. Still working on us and even more and thats factAnd we didn't ask for anyone to get nerf tho all we ask right now isWe want mobility and resistance if they want to remake the scourge.

And if they just want to nerf it thats also fine but let they nerf the aoe classes too other than that we are will remain worthless piece of...

Say it with your full mouth. Thats what you want all.

To seal the beast to enjoy with your classes again

Crying babies

Have you ever been in trouble vs any kind of reapers? As i assume you are an ele with unrealistic dps oh i forgot your been crying about how the necro got dabble life bar so you couldn't one shot us because our death shroud saved us every time eles tried to burst as

Now what stop you from killing the scourge instantly?

I want Necros to be strong. However, I do not want the outcome of a game to revolve almost entirely around the number of Scourges on each team, as it tends to now. I don't want entire professions to be forced out of the meta because of one or two builds.

We want this tooBut i know for a fact they will only nerf this spec and the spellbreaker and the game will be even harder for us because they will leave the thieves and the rangers as what they are right nowNot to mention the new guarden elite specialization is way to powerful and they can survive even with the scourge is op atmSo what the game will be after the nerf?

Rangers aren't particularly strong right now, apart from a single bug that they're going to fix anyway and the fact that Scourges are so important. Firebrands might also be a problem, but at least they aren't wiping teams in a few seconds or anything. And you still have multiple strong Reaper builds that will be there no matter what they do to Scourge.

[Crinn.7864]

@Wintermute.5408 said:

@Razor.6392 said:I can't believe silent killer thinks scourge is somehow fine because necros have arguably been 'weak' in the past.

Because in many aspects Scourge is WEAKER than Reaper? No shroud. No mobility. No stability. Meanwhile, it suffers from all the same problems necros do. Literally the only thing it has is its damage and area control. Take it away, and spec becomes useless. About as simple as that.

As a byproduct, damage nerfs have good chance of killing necro in PVE yet again.

This.

The problem with necromancers is that the only time we are meta is when we have some unintended gimmick to use. (see Dhuumfire, Procmancer, and in PvE jagged horrors) This is largely because ArenaNet seems to enormously overvalue HP when balancing, (see both Reaper and Scourge being described as "highly defensive" by ArenaNet) Because ArenaNet always overvalues HP necromancers often end up having very poor toolkits, and mechanics that are often self-defeating. What few defensive and offensive tools we do get typically have unrealistic prerequisites. (The Spite traitline is a good example, where literally half the traitline does not work on targets above 50% HP)

[Wintermute.5408]

@Griever.8150 said:

@silent killer.5732 said:We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

And i imagine you can see how that design can cause issues in a game mode like Conquest that encourages people to stand and often clump together in a specific area.

The scourge is meant for support, it was marketed as such and the fact it flat out introduced an entirely new defensive mechanism cements that fact.

If Barriers are undertuned to the point the only way Scourge can be viable is to act as an AoE DPS. They need to be buffed while toning down its dps.

I mean if Scourge stays the way it is now, what's the purpose of Reapers?

To be power/tank spec? 3 more years of buffs like we used to get, and it will be up to the task.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

As a newer necro player (scourge), who hated playing and fighting necro/reapers, I have an outsider looking in perspective (I have been playing scourge A LOT since PoF dropped).

• Scourge is not defensive. They have a small barrier that lasts 2seconds at most (unless you chain a bunch together then you are draining your LF to get a 4 second barrier). No reflect, 1 projectile block that self harms that is rarely used as it sucks. Best heal puts vuln on you (making yourself less defensive).
• Scourge is not mobile. I personally use the new portal and the new skill that grants swiftness to battle this (WvW mainly, although I have played it in PvP), using 1/2 utility slots to battle my mobility issues
• Scourge is a hybrid class in terms of range vs melee. They are deadlier in melee due to the small PbAoE, however overall its more of a hybrid (imo)
• Scourge does have stability. Its the same slotted ability that gives you swiftness (Trail of Anguish?). Great for safe stomps, sucks for mobility if someone hits the sand trail.
• Scourge does have AoE...in fact AoE's is what makes Scourge formidable.
• Scourge Damage. This, I will admit, does need a bit balancing. If they change/fix it so you can't stack shades for effects, then that will cut a lot of the damage. IMO you should be able to stack, however tone down either CD's or timing of Pulses. Imo anything outside this will do more harm to the class than good.

I may have missed one or 2 things but i accidentally stabbed my hand this morning and it hurts to type so I apologize.