Countless Mesmer Balance Suggestions

Trigr.6481 · April 16, 2020

The list of changes are in the videos description if you'd rather read them. Also I revised Mirage Advance since I released the video which is also updated in the description. Thanks for watching.

ArlAlt.1630 · April 16, 2020

Without even watching the video, I can tell you there won't be any Mesmer balance suggestions taken, other than nerfs.

Edit: After watching the video, I'd much rather they fix Clones randomly forgetting they were rushing for shatter and just getting stuck, clones getting stuck in terrain and blowing up at that spot, effectively doing nothing. QoL improvements to ensure Mesmer can actually land their skills instead of just blowing CDs for no reason.

TeqkOneStylez.8047 · April 16, 2020

Looks good but considering the rate at which anything is being changed at the moment, I don't think there's hope. Especially any change beyond a number tweak.

storm.3120 · April 16, 2020

I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years.Edit: just wanted to let you know that your idea to give improved alacrity baseline is really on the spot and should be implemented.1s of chill is nearly 3s of alacrity, its so bad, especially on class that supposed to have it "exclusively". We cant even get that much alacrity to feel any impact of it.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

Za Shaloc.3908 · April 16, 2020

I like your ideas for altering the shatter skills a whole lot.

Didn't have time to watch the video so I just read the description in the comments. Are you suggesting to straight up remove the mantra and scepter traits? It so, why? The class still needs its glamour trait reintroduced.

Trigr.6481 · April 16, 2020

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I like your ideas for altering the shatter skills a whole lot.
Didn't have time to watch the video so I just read the description in the comments. Are you suggesting to straight up remove the mantra and scepter traits? It so, why? The class still needs its glamour trait reintroduced.

Yes, scepter is already in a bad place imo, so they could technically take the scepter buff and just hard apply it to baseline scepter and it wouldn't be too bad. When it comes to mantras, the suggestion I had would be a better ease of entry because you can just simply select any heal skill and you're off to the races, so it wouldn't apply to just mantras. Heal mantra and stab mantra could use some love sure, but without that trait isn't going to influence people to slot those 2 either way imo.

ArlAlt.1630 · April 16, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

IH is fine as it is, clearly the most Mirage defining GM trait with the highest potential to be mostly active (as much as a dodge trait can be active) and tactical with high skill ceiling. Very interesting mechanic should for certain not be deleted or turned into some passive dmg mutliplier as you suggested. In general the ambush mechanic (which gets supported by IH + IH adds even more different combos and active outplay moves compared to core) is what balance out the very strong instant dodge mechanic from MC by creating inherent costs in terms of opportunity costs/ harder decision making in dodge management, adds more and and different combos and tactical outplay moves compared to core and for that includes clearly high skill ceiling.

The only thing that needs to be done to apply this higher skill ceiling, higher active rate and opportunity costs to (IH) Condimirage as well, is to rework condi ambushes into something more effect/ utility based comparable to gs and sword ambush design. Something that creates the need and incentive for the player to dodge pure offensive to hit well timed ambush effects on the target for active tactical outplays and to do skillful combos with shatters and other weaponskill (just as it already is on power). Turn condi ambushes away from the pure passive condi dmg spam from clones on pure defensive dodges we still have atm (just that because of the one dodge change IH is overnerfed into uselessness for condi, but the condi ambushes are still wrong designed, the one dodge change balanced around the real issues of the wrong condi ambush design without solving the problems).

For the ambush/IH mechanic it also is essential that Mirage gets it second dodge back because no improved utilties with more mirror generation can replace normal dodges, not only in terms of how useful they are defensive but also in terms of how tactical and active you can use those dodges to make active and tactical ambush plays (mesmers own ambush just as clone ambushes). The one dodge change completely contradicts the Mirage mechanic (just as the gamewide dodgemechanic based on 2 dodges for less spammy on cd and more mindful and tactical dodge management) as a spec supposed to do more with its dodges than only avoiding attacks. With only one dodge the ability to make pure offensive tactical dodges for ambush outplays are nearly impossible because the Mirage is more or less a freekill after blowing the one dodge pure offensive. Means the one dodge change deletes all the potential skill ceiling Mirage can have from the ambush/ IH mechanic. It turns ambushes (from Mesmer and clones) into a pure passive side effect from pure defensive dodging and contradicts all skill ceiling and inherent costs of the elite spec and make active and well timed ambush uses for tactical outplays nealr yimpossible. The Mirage can only hope that the moment he need to dodge pure defensive is also a good moment to use the ambush skill after. That is not skillful. Teh oen dodge change is the biggest nonsense change ever happend in the game (aside from removing IP from Chrono). Weird that most ppl (includign Mesmer mains) don't even understand that.

Ofc only giving Mirages 2 dodges back would be op in current post patch state, means you have to rework the condi ambushes as mentioned and maybe also need to nerf the power ambushes a little bit so that Mirage does not overperform in ambush rewards with 2 dodges on power and condi. Means how many dmg (power or condi) can be added to the mainly effect /utility based ambushes depends, and needs to be fine adjusted by Anet to a balanced post patch lvl based on 2 dodges. Also normal condi clone autoattacks should lose their high passive condi dmg and should be brought in line with power clones to have nearly zero dmg. These are the minimum changes need to be done. I suggestion a few other nerfs or reworks, some make Mesmer mains more unhappy then others but condi ambush rework based on giving 2 dodges back is absolutely needed to keep the high potential for high skill ceiling of the Mirage spec based on the ambush and IH mechanic and not contradict the whole Mirage mechanic like crazy.

@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real Mesmer very fast after that.

ArlAlt.1630 · April 16, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

That is not entirely true, the counterplay is that it's a coin toss. Ask yourself this: How many times have you used IA only to be placed in an even worse position than you initially were, in the middle of an AoE bomb or something along the line? I'ts literally a coin toss. And to me that's a perfect example of a coin toss. You win the coin toss, you get better position, you lose it, you just blew a 35 sec CD to get a .75 secs evade frames and an ambush attack if you don't get interrupted or melted by the carpet bomb. IA is a perfect example of a well balanced skill that has its counterplay included in the mechanic.

Trigr.6481 · April 16, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:IH is fine as it is, clearly the most Mirage defining GM trait with the highest potential to be mostly active (as much as a dodge trait can be active) and tactical with high skill ceiling. Very interesting mechanic should for certain not be deleted or turned into some passive dmg mutliplier as you suggested. In general the ambush mechanic (which gets supported by IH + IH adds even more different combos and active outplay moves compared to core) is what balance out the very strong instant dodge mechanic from MC by creating inherent costs in terms of opportunity costs/ harder decision making in dodge management, adds more and and different combos and tactical outplay moves compared to core and for that includes clearly high skill ceiling.
The only thing that needs to be done to apply this higher skill ceiling, higher active rate and opportunity costs to (IH) Condimirage as well, is to rework condi ambushes into something more effect/ utility based comparable to gs and sword ambush design. Something that creates the need and incentive for the player to dodge pure offensive to hit well timed ambush effects on the target for active tactical outplays and to do skillful combos with shatters and other weaponskill (just as it already is on power). Turn condi ambushes away from the pure passive condi dmg spam from clones on pure defensive dodges we still have atm (just that because of the one dodge change IH is overnerfed into uselessness for condi, but the condi ambushes are still wrong designed, the one dodge change balanced around the real issues of the wrong condi ambush design without solving the problems).
For the ambush/IH mechanic it also is essential that Mirage gets it second dodge back because no improved utilties with more mirror generation can replace normal dodges, not only in terms of how useful they are defensive but also in terms of how tactical and active you can use those dodges to make active and tactical ambush plays (mesmers own ambush just as clone ambushes). The one dodge change completely contradicts the Mirage mechanic (just as the gamewide dodgemechanic based on 2 dodges for less spammy on cd and more mindful and tactical dodge management) as a spec supposed to do more with its dodges than only avoiding attacks. With only one dodge the ability to make pure offensive tactical dodges for ambush outplays are nearly impossible because the Mirage is more or less a freekill after blowing the one dodge pure offensive. Means the one dodge change deletes all the potential skill ceiling Mirage can have from the ambush/ IH mechanic. It turns ambushes (from Mesmer and clones) into a pure passive side effect from pure defensive dodging and contradicts all skill ceiling and inherent costs of the elite spec and make active and well timed ambush uses for tactical outplays nealr yimpossible. The Mirage can only hope that the moment he need to dodge pure defensive is also a good moment to use the ambush skill after. That is not skillful. Teh oen dodge change is the biggest nonsense change ever happend in the game (aside from removing IP from Chrono). Weird that most ppl (includign Mesmer mains) don't even understand that.
Ofc only giving Mirages 2 dodges back would be op in current post patch state, means you have to rework the condi ambushes as mentioned and maybe also need to nerf the power ambushes a little bit so that Mirage does not overperform in ambush rewards with 2 dodges on power and condi. Means how many dmg (power or condi) can be added to the mainly effect /utility based ambushes depends, and needs to be fine adjusted by Anet to a balanced post patch lvl based on 2 dodges. Also normal condi clone autoattacks should lose their high passive condi dmg and should be brought in line with power clones to have nearly zero dmg. These are the minimum changes need to be done. I suggestion a few other nerfs or reworks, some make Mesmer mains more unhappy then others but condi ambush rework based on giving 2 dodges back is absolutely needed to keep the high potential for high skill ceiling of the Mirage spec based on the ambush and IH mechanic and not contradict the whole Mirage mechanic like crazy.
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

I made the video under the assumption that mesmer is never getting their 2nd dodge back based on anet's reluctance of reverting changes in the past, no matter how ill logic said change was. That being said, I still think IH should be removed and replaced with another trait in its place. It kinda lost its purpose imo when they nerfed almost every single ambush ability, I'd just rather see something else at this point. Not to mention that A-net said before that the dodge mechanic is so hard baked into the trait itself that removing the dodge from IH would take more time than removing and redesigning it from the ground up.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

That is not entirely true, the counterplay is that it's a coin toss. Ask yourself this: How many times have you used IA only to be placed in an even worse position than you initially were, in the middle of an AoE bomb or something along the line? I'ts literally a coin toss. And to me that's a perfect example of a coin toss. You win the coin toss, you get better position, you lose it, you just blew a 35 sec CD to get a .75 secs evade frames and an ambush attack if you don't get interrupted or melted by the carpet bomb. IA is a perfect example of a well balanced skill that has its counterplay included in the mechanic.

I mentioned that the randomness also can be bad for the Mesmer but that doesn't change the fact that there is no skill ceiling and active mind gaming involved from the Mesmer, just as there is no possibility to active counterplay the randomness from the opponent.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

@Trigr.6481 said:
@bravan.3876 said:IH is fine as it is, clearly the most Mirage defining GM trait with the highest potential to be mostly active (as much as a dodge trait can be active) and tactical with high skill ceiling. Very interesting mechanic should for certain not be deleted or turned into some passive dmg mutliplier as you suggested. In general the ambush mechanic (which gets supported by IH + IH adds even more different combos and active outplay moves compared to core) is what balance out the very strong instant dodge mechanic from MC by creating inherent costs in terms of opportunity costs/ harder decision making in dodge management, adds more and and different combos and tactical outplay moves compared to core and for that includes clearly high skill ceiling.
The only thing that needs to be done to apply this higher skill ceiling, higher active rate and opportunity costs to (IH) Condimirage as well, is to rework condi ambushes into something more effect/ utility based comparable to gs and sword ambush design. Something that creates the need and incentive for the player to dodge pure offensive to hit well timed ambush effects on the target for active tactical outplays and to do skillful combos with shatters and other weaponskill (just as it already is on power). Turn condi ambushes away from the pure passive condi dmg spam from clones on pure defensive dodges we still have atm (just that because of the one dodge change IH is overnerfed into uselessness for condi, but the condi ambushes are still wrong designed, the one dodge change balanced around the real issues of the wrong condi ambush design without solving the problems).
For the ambush/IH mechanic it also is essential that Mirage gets it second dodge back because no improved utilties with more mirror generation can replace normal dodges, not only in terms of how useful they are defensive but also in terms of how tactical and active you can use those dodges to make active and tactical ambush plays (mesmers own ambush just as clone ambushes). The one dodge change completely contradicts the Mirage mechanic (just as the gamewide dodgemechanic based on 2 dodges for less spammy on cd and more mindful and tactical dodge management) as a spec supposed to do more with its dodges than only avoiding attacks. With only one dodge the ability to make pure offensive tactical dodges for ambush outplays are nearly impossible because the Mirage is more or less a freekill after blowing the one dodge pure offensive. Means the one dodge change deletes all the potential skill ceiling Mirage can have from the ambush/ IH mechanic. It turns ambushes (from Mesmer and clones) into a pure passive side effect from pure defensive dodging and contradicts all skill ceiling and inherent costs of the elite spec and make active and well timed ambush uses for tactical outplays nealr yimpossible. The Mirage can only hope that the moment he need to dodge pure defensive is also a good moment to use the ambush skill after. That is not skillful. Teh oen dodge change is the biggest nonsense change ever happend in the game (aside from removing IP from Chrono). Weird that most ppl (includign Mesmer mains) don't even understand that.
Ofc only giving Mirages 2 dodges back would be op in current post patch state, means you have to rework the condi ambushes as mentioned and maybe also need to nerf the power ambushes a little bit so that Mirage does not overperform in ambush rewards with 2 dodges on power and condi. Means how many dmg (power or condi) can be added to the mainly effect /utility based ambushes depends, and needs to be fine adjusted by Anet to a balanced post patch lvl based on 2 dodges. Also normal condi clone autoattacks should lose their high passive condi dmg and should be brought in line with power clones to have nearly zero dmg. These are the minimum changes need to be done. I suggestion a few other nerfs or reworks, some make Mesmer mains more unhappy then others but condi ambush rework based on giving 2 dodges back is absolutely needed to keep the high potential for high skill ceiling of the Mirage spec based on the ambush and IH mechanic and not contradict the whole Mirage mechanic like crazy.
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

I made the video under the assumption that mesmer is never getting their 2nd dodge back based on anet's reluctance of reverting changes in the past, no matter how ill logic said change was. That being said, I still think IH should be removed and replaced with another trait in its place. It kinda lost its purpose imo when they nerfed almost every single ambush ability, I'd just rather see something else at this point. Not to mention that A-net said before that the dodge mechanic is so hard baked into the trait itself that removing the dodge from IH would take more time than removing and redesigning it from the ground up.

What you mean with removing the dodge from IH? There is no need to make the clones not dodge when using IH. They even need to be able to dodge otherwise no clone would live long enough to finish their ambush attack. It is not even the ambushes being overnerfed (just looking at them, they are still strong by themself, just only having one dodge makes them too weak combined with other nerfs to core traits like Sharper Images had good synergy with some ambushes).If they would have just reworked the condi ambushes to be more about effects/ utility need to be differently timed to pure defenisve dodges we would not have any need to reduce dodges to 1. The problem is that they never rly reworked or nerfs the problematic condi ambushes directly. They nerfed the dodges to one, they overnerfed Sharper Images to compensate for ambush dmg and avoid scepter ambush to overperform with that trait (instead just reworking scepter into a one hit skill not stacking bleed like crazy with each ambush use) etc. The only time they touched an ambush directly was for staff (but there they didn't even fine adjusted the clone ambush differently from the Mesmers own ambush).

You ask for IP reversion (even though you know Anet is not flexible with admitting and reverting mistakes) and you should ask for adding the second dodge back for the same reasons: Both changes contradict either basic Mesmer or basic elite spec mechanics heavily and dumbing down the elite specs, they delete skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity instead increasing them. In particular ambushes and IH are the things adding skill ceiling the most (when ambushes are desinged well at least) and also define Mirage as a spec with different playstyle to core the most. Overnerfing it into uselessness is just contrary to the plan of turning Mirage into a balanced and less noobfriendly, less passive condi clone dmg spam spec.

Deleting IH will kill a lot of potential skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity from Mirage. It would be a shame. And for that reasons the community (including Mesmer haters btw who want a less noobfriedly spec) should fight against this stupid change as long and as hard as needed until Anet has no choice anymore and need to admit and revert this nonsense. Means just as hard as fighting vs the IP deletion on Chrono. Because it is the same lvl of spec mechanic destruction and overnerf and nonsenseness.

Trigr.6481 · April 16, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:
@Trigr.6481 said:
@bravan.3876 said:IH is fine as it is, clearly the most Mirage defining GM trait with the highest potential to be mostly active (as much as a dodge trait can be active) and tactical with high skill ceiling. Very interesting mechanic should for certain not be deleted or turned into some passive dmg mutliplier as you suggested. In general the ambush mechanic (which gets supported by IH + IH adds even more different combos and active outplay moves compared to core) is what balance out the very strong instant dodge mechanic from MC by creating inherent costs in terms of opportunity costs/ harder decision making in dodge management, adds more and and different combos and tactical outplay moves compared to core and for that includes clearly high skill ceiling.
The only thing that needs to be done to apply this higher skill ceiling, higher active rate and opportunity costs to (IH) Condimirage as well, is to rework condi ambushes into something more effect/ utility based comparable to gs and sword ambush design. Something that creates the need and incentive for the player to dodge pure offensive to hit well timed ambush effects on the target for active tactical outplays and to do skillful combos with shatters and other weaponskill (just as it already is on power). Turn condi ambushes away from the pure passive condi dmg spam from clones on pure defensive dodges we still have atm (just that because of the one dodge change IH is overnerfed into uselessness for condi, but the condi ambushes are still wrong designed, the one dodge change balanced around the real issues of the wrong condi ambush design without solving the problems).
For the ambush/IH mechanic it also is essential that Mirage gets it second dodge back because no improved utilties with more mirror generation can replace normal dodges, not only in terms of how useful they are defensive but also in terms of how tactical and active you can use those dodges to make active and tactical ambush plays (mesmers own ambush just as clone ambushes). The one dodge change completely contradicts the Mirage mechanic (just as the gamewide dodgemechanic based on 2 dodges for less spammy on cd and more mindful and tactical dodge management) as a spec supposed to do more with its dodges than only avoiding attacks. With only one dodge the ability to make pure offensive tactical dodges for ambush outplays are nearly impossible because the Mirage is more or less a freekill after blowing the one dodge pure offensive. Means the one dodge change deletes all the potential skill ceiling Mirage can have from the ambush/ IH mechanic. It turns ambushes (from Mesmer and clones) into a pure passive side effect from pure defensive dodging and contradicts all skill ceiling and inherent costs of the elite spec and make active and well timed ambush uses for tactical outplays nealr yimpossible. The Mirage can only hope that the moment he need to dodge pure defensive is also a good moment to use the ambush skill after. That is not skillful. Teh oen dodge change is the biggest nonsense change ever happend in the game (aside from removing IP from Chrono). Weird that most ppl (includign Mesmer mains) don't even understand that.
Ofc only giving Mirages 2 dodges back would be op in current post patch state, means you have to rework the condi ambushes as mentioned and maybe also need to nerf the power ambushes a little bit so that Mirage does not overperform in ambush rewards with 2 dodges on power and condi. Means how many dmg (power or condi) can be added to the mainly effect /utility based ambushes depends, and needs to be fine adjusted by Anet to a balanced post patch lvl based on 2 dodges. Also normal condi clone autoattacks should lose their high passive condi dmg and should be brought in line with power clones to have nearly zero dmg. These are the minimum changes need to be done. I suggestion a few other nerfs or reworks, some make Mesmer mains more unhappy then others but condi ambush rework based on giving 2 dodges back is absolutely needed to keep the high potential for high skill ceiling of the Mirage spec based on the ambush and IH mechanic and not contradict the whole Mirage mechanic like crazy.
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

I made the video under the assumption that mesmer is never getting their 2nd dodge back based on anet's reluctance of reverting changes in the past, no matter how ill logic said change was. That being said, I still think IH should be removed and replaced with another trait in its place. It kinda lost its purpose imo when they nerfed almost every single ambush ability, I'd just rather see something else at this point. Not to mention that A-net said before that the dodge mechanic is so hard baked into the trait itself that removing the dodge from IH would take more time than removing and redesigning it from the ground up.

What you mean with removing the dodge from IH? There is no need to make the clones not dodge when using IH. They even need to be able to dodge otherwise no clone would live long enough to finish their ambush attack. It is not even the ambushes being overnerfed. If they would have just reworked the condi ambushes to be more about effects/ utility need to be differently timed to pure defenisve dodges we would not have any need to reduce dodges to 1. The problem is that they never rly reworked or nerfs the problematic condi ambushes directly. They nerfed the dodges to one, they overnerfed Sharper Images to compensate for ambush dmg and avoid scepter ambush to overperform with that trait (instead just reworking scepter into a one hit skill not stacking bleed like crazy with each ambush use) etc.

You ask for IP reversion (even though you know Anet is not flexible with admitting and reverting mistakes) and you should ask for adding the second dodge back for the same reasons: Both changes contradict either basic Mesmer or basic elite spec mechanics heavily and dumbing down the elite specs, they delete skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity instead increasing them. In particular ambushes and IH are the things adding skill ceiling the most (when ambushes are desinged well at least) and also define Mirage as a spec with different playstyle to core the most. Overnerfing it into uselessness is just contrary to the plan of turning Mirage into a balanced and less noobfriendly, less passive condi clone dmg spam spec.

Deleting IH will kill a lot of potential skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity from Mirage. It would be a shame. And for that reasons the community (including Mesmer haters btw who want a less noobfriedly spec) should fight against this stupid change as long and as hard as needed until Anet has no choice anymore and need to admit and revert this nonsense. Means just as hard as fighting vs the IP deletion on Chrono. Because it is the same lvl of spec mechanic destruction and overnerf and nonsenseness.

The reason for asking for IP reversion because as I said in the video, the 2nd dodge can be more easily balanced around than self shatter imo. So asking for that back is more realistic in my head than asking for them to give us back our 2nd dodge. When it comes to ambush, personally I'd rather see IH removed and them buffing ambush attacks across the board to make them feel impactful on just you, than having a bunch of illusions ambush like monkeys with dodge immunity, and have weak ambush abilities across the board to compensate for the off chance that someone might spec into IH. Which isn't really good from a balance standpoint if you really think about it. If infinite horizon is allowed to exist, then ambush will always be weak because of the potential output it can dish out with IH.

apharma.3741 · April 16, 2020

Restoring IP to chrono without changing continuum split will bring back double casting. Double burst, double moa, double anything means everything has to be weaksauce.

Yes it needs IP back to function, there's loads of problems etc etc but continuum split shouldn't be in the game imo, it's broken chrono and arguably mesmer all across the game.

pninak.1069 · April 16, 2020

continuum split has longer cd than most elite skills. even if you count in alacrity with a 100% boon duration build. you won't get it below 60+ seconds. this includes the improved alacrity trait.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

@Trigr.6481 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Trigr.6481 said:
@bravan.3876 said:IH is fine as it is, clearly the most Mirage defining GM trait with the highest potential to be mostly active (as much as a dodge trait can be active) and tactical with high skill ceiling. Very interesting mechanic should for certain not be deleted or turned into some passive dmg mutliplier as you suggested. In general the ambush mechanic (which gets supported by IH + IH adds even more different combos and active outplay moves compared to core) is what balance out the very strong instant dodge mechanic from MC by creating inherent costs in terms of opportunity costs/ harder decision making in dodge management, adds more and and different combos and tactical outplay moves compared to core and for that includes clearly high skill ceiling.
The only thing that needs to be done to apply this higher skill ceiling, higher active rate and opportunity costs to (IH) Condimirage as well, is to rework condi ambushes into something more effect/ utility based comparable to gs and sword ambush design. Something that creates the need and incentive for the player to dodge pure offensive to hit well timed ambush effects on the target for active tactical outplays and to do skillful combos with shatters and other weaponskill (just as it already is on power). Turn condi ambushes away from the pure passive condi dmg spam from clones on pure defensive dodges we still have atm (just that because of the one dodge change IH is overnerfed into uselessness for condi, but the condi ambushes are still wrong designed, the one dodge change balanced around the real issues of the wrong condi ambush design without solving the problems).
For the ambush/IH mechanic it also is essential that Mirage gets it second dodge back because no improved utilties with more mirror generation can replace normal dodges, not only in terms of how useful they are defensive but also in terms of how tactical and active you can use those dodges to make active and tactical ambush plays (mesmers own ambush just as clone ambushes). The one dodge change completely contradicts the Mirage mechanic (just as the gamewide dodgemechanic based on 2 dodges for less spammy on cd and more mindful and tactical dodge management) as a spec supposed to do more with its dodges than only avoiding attacks. With only one dodge the ability to make pure offensive tactical dodges for ambush outplays are nearly impossible because the Mirage is more or less a freekill after blowing the one dodge pure offensive. Means the one dodge change deletes all the potential skill ceiling Mirage can have from the ambush/ IH mechanic. It turns ambushes (from Mesmer and clones) into a pure passive side effect from pure defensive dodging and contradicts all skill ceiling and inherent costs of the elite spec and make active and well timed ambush uses for tactical outplays nealr yimpossible. The Mirage can only hope that the moment he need to dodge pure defensive is also a good moment to use the ambush skill after. That is not skillful. Teh oen dodge change is the biggest nonsense change ever happend in the game (aside from removing IP from Chrono). Weird that most ppl (includign Mesmer mains) don't even understand that.
Ofc only giving Mirages 2 dodges back would be op in current post patch state, means you have to rework the condi ambushes as mentioned and maybe also need to nerf the power ambushes a little bit so that Mirage does not overperform in ambush rewards with 2 dodges on power and condi. Means how many dmg (power or condi) can be added to the mainly effect /utility based ambushes depends, and needs to be fine adjusted by Anet to a balanced post patch lvl based on 2 dodges. Also normal condi clone autoattacks should lose their high passive condi dmg and should be brought in line with power clones to have nearly zero dmg. These are the minimum changes need to be done. I suggestion a few other nerfs or reworks, some make Mesmer mains more unhappy then others but condi ambush rework based on giving 2 dodges back is absolutely needed to keep the high potential for high skill ceiling of the Mirage spec based on the ambush and IH mechanic and not contradict the whole Mirage mechanic like crazy.
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

I made the video under the assumption that mesmer is never getting their 2nd dodge back based on anet's reluctance of reverting changes in the past, no matter how ill logic said change was. That being said, I still think IH should be removed and replaced with another trait in its place. It kinda lost its purpose imo when they nerfed almost every single ambush ability, I'd just rather see something else at this point. Not to mention that A-net said before that the dodge mechanic is so hard baked into the trait itself that removing the dodge from IH would take more time than removing and redesigning it from the ground up.

What you mean with removing the dodge from IH? There is no need to make the clones not dodge when using IH. They even need to be able to dodge otherwise no clone would live long enough to finish their ambush attack. It is not even the ambushes being overnerfed. If they would have just reworked the condi ambushes to be more about effects/ utility need to be differently timed to pure defenisve dodges we would not have any need to reduce dodges to 1. The problem is that they never rly reworked or nerfs the problematic condi ambushes directly. They nerfed the dodges to one, they overnerfed Sharper Images to compensate for ambush dmg and avoid scepter ambush to overperform with that trait (instead just reworking scepter into a one hit skill not stacking bleed like crazy with each ambush use) etc.

You ask for IP reversion (even though you know Anet is not flexible with admitting and reverting mistakes) and you should ask for adding the second dodge back for the same reasons: Both changes contradict either basic Mesmer or basic elite spec mechanics heavily and dumbing down the elite specs, they delete skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity instead increasing them. In particular ambushes and IH are the things adding skill ceiling the most (when ambushes are desinged well at least) and also define Mirage as a spec with different playstyle to core the most. Overnerfing it into uselessness is just contrary to the plan of turning Mirage into a balanced and less noobfriendly, less passive condi clone dmg spam spec.

Deleting IH will kill a lot of potential skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity from Mirage. It would be a shame. And for that reasons the community (including Mesmer haters btw who want a less noobfriedly spec) should fight against this stupid change as long and as hard as needed until Anet has no choice anymore and need to admit and revert this nonsense. Means just as hard as fighting vs the IP deletion on Chrono. Because it is the same lvl of spec mechanic destruction and overnerf and nonsenseness.

When it comes to ambush, personally I'd rather see IH removed and them buffing ambush attacks across the board to make them feel impactful on just you, than having a bunch of illusions ambush like monkeys with dodge immunity,

But that way you turn ambushes into a pure passive side effect, a pure passive dmg multiplier on dodge what kills a lot of skill ceiling. A Mirage cannot work active with his own ambushes anymore. He only can hope that the moment he needs to dodge defensive is also a good moment for an ambush use. That includes zero possibility to make active and tactical plays with ambushes. It will kill a lot of skill ceiling. Thinking IH is passive and the issue, is a completely wrong view on the mechanic. Quite the opposite is true. IH can add a lot of activity and tactical skill ceiling when ambushes are designed well. You already can see this on IH Powermirage (with gs, sword). So your suggestion rly is the wrong way.

Also: Most clone ambushes have tons of counterplay, they have decent casttime, decent animations, can be outmoved and side stepped. The dodge duration doesn't even cover the whole ambush casttime. There is no balance issue at all from IH and clone ambushes per se. The only issue was/ still is, is that condi ambushes were/still are too passive designed (and only condi ambushes, because they are only about pure dmg application and had that much condi dmg on clones that pure defensive dodging for ez and braindead passive condi dmg application was enough. Meanwhile on power (gs and sword) the ambushes from Mesmer and clones are more about utilties than only pure dmg. Those utilities create the need and incentive for active uses of ambushes also from clones and the need to time them differently from pure defensive dodges, turn them into more than a pure passive side effect from avoiding an attack. They add the need to combo ambushes for stronger shattercombos and to make pure offensive dodges to hit a well timed ambush effect like a daze for example or make a well timed selfbuff or target debuff move with ambushes. Nothing of that was giving on condi ambushes. Means the only issue that leads into passive clones spamming ambushes like monkeys while the Mesmer does not even need to think about it and can play pure defensive while applying tons of passive clone condi dmg was only a problem you had on Condimirage duo to wrong designed condi ambushes. Not because of IH itself. What you want to do is making the whole ambush mechanic totally passive and untactical. It kills every ability to work with ambushes active and tactical for skillful outplay moves and skillful combos. Actually funny, the skill ceiling from Powermirage ambush/ IH mechanic is so high and also high IQ that barely anyone even undertsands it correct, not to mention barely anyone is able to play that mechanic near its maximum potential and utilize the IH and general ambush mechanic in a more active and tactical way on the 2 power ambushes providing the high skill ceiling by good ambush design.

and have weak ambush abilities across the board to compensate for the off chance that someone might spec into IH. Which isn't really good from a balance standpoint if you really think about it. If infinite horizon is allowed to exist, then ambush will always be weak because of the potential output it can dish out with IH.

With that argumentation you need to delete every trait on every class then which improves/ strengthen a specific type of skills. You need to remove every weapon specific trait gives more dmg or lower cd to specific weaponsskills or traits that gives more dmg or other effects to shatters etc. because each of those traits will lead to a weaker basic untraited skill because of the potential buff it can get from a trait. So that argument is invalid. Buffing specific skills is a legitim type of traits. And in case of IH it even is one with the highest possible skill ceiling. While traits like +15% dmg to shatters do not create any additional need for the player to tactical work with the improved skill or think about the passive dmg multiplier trait at all. Passive dmg multiplier affect the player behavior not rly and create no need to work with them in a tactical way. And you want to turn IH into such a pure passive side effect on defensive dodges. That is a dumb down, an insane dumb down of the spec.

Lincolnbeard.1735 · April 16, 2020

Nice suggestions overall.Liked chrono and the shatters suggestions a lot.As for the phantasmal swordsman, I've been on a crusade against this kitten version since it was changed, all that is needed is a revert, the "poke" phantasm was good.

ArlAlt.1630 · April 16, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

That is not entirely true, the counterplay is that it's a coin toss. Ask yourself this: How many times have you used IA only to be placed in an even worse position than you initially were, in the middle of an AoE bomb or something along the line? I'ts literally a coin toss. And to me that's a perfect example of a coin toss. You win the coin toss, you get better position, you lose it, you just blew a 35 sec CD to get a .75 secs evade frames and an ambush attack if you don't get interrupted or melted by the carpet bomb. IA is a perfect example of a well balanced skill that has its counterplay included in the mechanic.

I mentioned that the randomness also can be bad for the Mesmer but that doesn't change the fact that there is no skill ceiling and active mind gaming involved from the Mesmer, just as there is no possibility to active counterplay the randomness from the opponent.

This is where you and I disagree. Having to make the conscious decision to roll the dice in hope for a beneficial position is a text book definition of skill ceiling. The timing of rolling said dice, that is. GW2 and a lot of other games follow the good old Texas Hold 'Em model of playing the odds. Playing the odds is a factor of skill on its own.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

That is not entirely true, the counterplay is that it's a coin toss. Ask yourself this: How many times have you used IA only to be placed in an even worse position than you initially were, in the middle of an AoE bomb or something along the line? I'ts literally a coin toss. And to me that's a perfect example of a coin toss. You win the coin toss, you get better position, you lose it, you just blew a 35 sec CD to get a .75 secs evade frames and an ambush attack if you don't get interrupted or melted by the carpet bomb. IA is a perfect example of a well balanced skill that has its counterplay included in the mechanic.

I mentioned that the randomness also can be bad for the Mesmer but that doesn't change the fact that there is no skill ceiling and active mind gaming involved from the Mesmer, just as there is no possibility to active counterplay the randomness from the opponent.

This is where you and I disagree. Having to make the conscious decision to roll the dice in hope for a beneficial position is a text book definition of skill ceiling. The timing of rolling said dice, that is. GW2 and a lot of other games follow the good old Texas Hold 'Em model of playing the odds. Playing the odds is a factor of skill on its own.

Didn't know that gambling is considered skillful. I will tell my gf next time how i outskilled her when we use a dice to decide who has to stand up and get new chips in the empty bowl and me getting the higher number of pips xD I think we also should suggest to add some random position changes to chess pieces to higher the skill cap of that noobish low skill game.

Curunen.8729 · April 16, 2020

I actually like some of the suggestions in the video, however...

@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"Odik.4587" said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

I strongly agree with this.

Detarget makes so much more sense on mirage than stealth, and should be encouraged over stealth, with mirage's intended theme of enhancing and blending with clones.

And in essence it's pretty much "zero duration stealth". It just happens to be on porting skills that reposition you - that's where the benefit comes from. Axe 3 repositions you (oh in melee range to be cleaved, unless you eg weapon swap and staff 2 directly out or similar), IA repositions you and is a double edged sword due to rng. Mirage Retreat - has a fixed position, albeit more difficult for opponent to keep track of where you were when you used Mirage Advance, but again is defensive here.

That's 3 skills, very rarely all three being used together, more likely one or two. Hardly "on every skill".

And above all, detargets require active clones to benefit - without clones they are almost useless. Almost like stealthing and becoming immediately revealed.

Mirror Images... barely moves you, unlike the mirage skills, so while I get what Anet are thinking by putting it on this core utility, in practice it's pretty useless here.

I really don't get the complaints about detargeting, when it's on very few skills and far more thematic to use especially with mirage, and has more counterplay (cleave the clones, learn the positioning of the one or two skills) than something like old PU nonsense builds (granted less relevant in pvp than wvw, but the point about detarget vs stealth still applies). It's also insanely quick and easy to retarget the mirage after a detarget.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

@Curunen.8729 That it fits with the Mirage theme is true but doesn't change that it is an unhealthy mechanic and the randomness kills all skill ceiling and all mind game possibilities from the Mesmer itself and his opponent. With a slow and bugging targeting sytems we have in GW2 it is even more unhealthy. Also it is not rly needed to define Mirage as a different spec form core with different playstyle. The amsbush mechanic, MC and IH do that job already. It makes more sense to ask for IH becoming a minor trait and balance GM traits around it when you want a more defined and different from core Mirage spec. That at least will add skill ceiling instead lowering it.

I ofc agree that abuse of stealth from PU is also unhealthy

ArlAlt.1630 · April 16, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years

Suddenly no problem anymore with someone saying the retargeting mechanic is stupid and should get removed? Rofl

I for one would rather see stealth go on Mesmer than detarget. Detarget plays much more into the subterfuge theme of the class than stealth does.Mind you I am biased in that regard as I have been playing stealthless builds for over a year now.

The problem is, that retargeting in particular when combined with random position change has way less counterplay (zero to be exact) and kills every possibility for mind gaming (on both Mesmers and opponents side) than stealth. When the target is stealthing i still can anticipate his movement direction, i still can keep track of the Mesmer amoung clones when tracking who is coming out of stealth. Add to that, that most retargeting skills also include a dodge means those skills are just some defensive monsterskills with zero counterplay. While the randomness of the position change can even be bad for the Mesmer itself. IA even adds a lot of offensive power to the defensive monster abilities and is just broken as hell in my opinion and still has too short cd compared to how much stronger it is than Decoy for example. But i would just remove the retargeting mechanic completely. In particular with GW2 slow and bugging targeting it is a pain to fight against even when you have no problem to identify the real mesmer very fast after that.

That is not entirely true, the counterplay is that it's a coin toss. Ask yourself this: How many times have you used IA only to be placed in an even worse position than you initially were, in the middle of an AoE bomb or something along the line? I'ts literally a coin toss. And to me that's a perfect example of a coin toss. You win the coin toss, you get better position, you lose it, you just blew a 35 sec CD to get a .75 secs evade frames and an ambush attack if you don't get interrupted or melted by the carpet bomb. IA is a perfect example of a well balanced skill that has its counterplay included in the mechanic.

I mentioned that the randomness also can be bad for the Mesmer but that doesn't change the fact that there is no skill ceiling and active mind gaming involved from the Mesmer, just as there is no possibility to active counterplay the randomness from the opponent.

This is where you and I disagree. Having to make the conscious decision to roll the dice in hope for a beneficial position is a text book definition of skill ceiling. The timing of rolling said dice, that is. GW2 and a lot of other games follow the good old Texas Hold 'Em model of playing the odds. Playing the odds is a factor of skill on its own.

Didn't know that gambling is considered skillful. I will tell my gf next time how i outskilled her when we use a dice to decide who has to stand up and get new chips in the empty bowl and me getting the higher number of pips xD I think we also should suggest to add some random position changes to chess pieces to higher the skill cap of that noobish low skill game.

Now, now... You're just trying to project your own negative opinion of gambling onto the masses. Gambling in itself isn't bad, it's people addicted to it that make it so. If you think Poker is not a game of skill, I invite you to play a few nights with me and my buds on Poker night. Poker takes A LOT of skill. Anyone claiming otherwise, obviously doesn't understand how the game is played.

P.S. I'm also inviting you to give up your stance in that SPECIFIC regard as you're not going to get any followers with it. Think of it as you wish. I'm doing you a favor here.

bravan.3876 · April 16, 2020

@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@ArlAlt.1630 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@Odik.4587 said:I actually would like to see it but this aint happening in a 10 million years