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The Death of Thief

darren.1064

By darren.1064
in Player vs. Player

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

Well u could run CS/DA/TRICK with zerk,scholars and assassin sig and do high backstabs on squishier builds but issue is builds got low clears and low utility so not very useful outside of that initial burst, thsts fine issue is other classes can build far more useful and tanky builds in general while bursting the same as that thief build lol.

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UNOwen.7132

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

Well u could run CS/DA/TRICK with zerk,scholars and assassin sig and do high backstabs on squishier builds but issue is builds got low clears and low utility so not very useful outside of that initial burst, thsts fine issue is other classes can build far more useful and tanky builds in general while bursting the same as that thief build lol.

We saw Vallun try that. Even with all that, most he got were 6k backstabs, and usually less. Thats still not really enough.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

Well u could run CS/DA/TRICK with zerk,scholars and assassin sig and do high backstabs on squishier builds but issue is builds got low clears and low utility so not very useful outside of that initial burst, thsts fine issue is other classes can build far more useful and tanky builds in general while bursting the same as that thief build lol.

zerkhhhhahahahahaha

People don't play thief past bronze where zerk flies.

Anything less than 16k HP will get melted in one shot. Anything around 16k, ie Marauder, ie the thing you should be running as a power thief, will only get you melted in two hits, which is a 200% efficiency increase. Amazing.

Of course, to be viable, you still have to take Flickering Shadows, and multiple ports, and at least two stunbreaks, and...

...And the only way I can make core power thief work in this meta, especially with P/P bang bang, is to put 70% of the build into disruption or defense. I wish I had a fourth specline so I could also take Acrobatics, but alas I have to be a minimum relevant at some point and have to take Deadly arts for that Executionner's Strike, so I can at the very least try to go for food the grownups on my team have chewed up a little for me.

'Thief is fine'

Not it's not. Shame on that guy for being misleading for the sake of drumming up drama and therefore attention. Several mechanics are broken but beyond that, is thief 'fine' on its own? It's fun, it doesn't delete people if you don't run the current condi meta, yes, it's 'fine', it's 'fine' as in it would be actually fine if the rest of the game was balanced around thief right now. If you brought all the other classes back to Thief's current powerlevel, the PvP meta would be a lot less cancerous. But it's not, actually, fine to play right now. At all. It's shit.

Also, you can't even tell what's a squishy build anymore. There is no tell whether that guy is wearing Paladin Amulet or Zerk. Eles can just rock attune and give you the middle finger, mesmer you have no reason to try and attack them, necros are the entire opposite of what a guy with a cloth robe should be in a knife fight. What exactly is a squishy build to a thief? Well, any other thief.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Well in their defense splb was a pretty good defense/offensive line before mmr and healing signet nerf. With the short CD evade/stuns and healing from magebane from mmr in combo with healing sig u had some solid over all sustain.

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Well in their defense splb was a pretty good defense/offensive line before mmr and healing signet nerf. With the short CD evade/stuns and healing from magebane from mmr in combo with healing sig u had some solid over all sustain.

Well that was part of my point. Spellbreaker didnt have to go out of their way to gain sustain. They just happened to have it anyway.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

Well u could run CS/DA/TRICK with zerk,scholars and assassin sig and do high backstabs on squishier builds but issue is builds got low clears and low utility so not very useful outside of that initial burst, thsts fine issue is other classes can build far more useful and tanky builds in general while bursting the same as that thief build lol.

We saw Vallun try that. Even with all that, most he got were 6k backstabs, and usually less. Thats still not really enough.

Well if sustain was lowered that 6k could possibly result in significantly more. Sustain is obviously to high, we kno that right? I mean power dps dropped but hp/armor wasn't nor was barrier or shroud like skills. Root on ranger was effectively made broken by this as well. Imaging thief got a damage buff and the sustain gets lowered as we know needs to happen, thiefs damage would be nerfed again so fast so why not just lower sustain?

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Psycoprophet.8107

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@AldKai.9712 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

Well u could run CS/DA/TRICK with zerk,scholars and assassin sig and do high backstabs on squishier builds but issue is builds got low clears and low utility so not very useful outside of that initial burst, thsts fine issue is other classes can build far more useful and tanky builds in general while bursting the same as that thief build lol.

zerkhhhhahahahahaha

People don't play thief past bronze where zerk flies.

Anything less than 16k HP will get melted in one shot. Anything around 16k, ie Marauder, ie the thing you
should
be running as a power thief, will only get you melted in two hits, which is a 200% efficiency increase. Amazing.

Of course, to be viable, you still have to take Flickering Shadows, and multiple ports, and at least two stunbreaks, and...

...And the only way I can make core power thief work in this meta, especially with P/P bang bang, is to put 70% of the build into disruption or defense. I wish I had a fourth specline so I could also take Acrobatics, but alas I have to be a minimum relevant at some point and have to take Deadly arts for that Executionner's Strike, so I can at the very least try to go for food the grownups on my team have chewed up a little for me.

'Thief is fine'

Not it's not. Shame on that guy for being misleading for the sake of drumming up drama and therefore attention. Several mechanics are broken but beyond that, is thief 'fine' on its own? It's fun, it doesn't delete people if you don't run the current condi meta, yes, it's 'fine', it's 'fine' as in it would be actually fine if the rest of the game was balanced around thief right now. If you brought all the other classes back to Thief's current powerlevel, the PvP meta would be a lot less cancerous. But it's not, actually, fine to play right now. At all. It's kitten.

Also, you can't even tell what's a squishy build anymore. There is no tell whether that guy is wearing Paladin Amulet or Zerk. Eles can just rock attune and give you the middle finger, mesmer you have no reason to try and attack them, necros are the entire opposite of what a guy with a cloth robe should be in a knife fight. What exactly is a squishy build to a thief? Well, any other thief.

I know, my point was the full dps build vallun advocated was basically a way to show thief could do high dps, to bad build is bad and would be useless in serious play, like a 3 min cd elite. Also I've never been near bronze so not sure what flies there, I'm guessing anything but in plat 1 p/p thief doesn't fare well, has it ever? More of a pve weapon kit.Vallun wasn't misleading as he stated sustain and damage needs lowered on some classes which would elevate thiefs current position significantly, it's just a lot of the community chose to ignore that part and focus on thief is fine statement cuz it fits thier argument.He also showed circumstances where thief could do high dps using a 3 min cd elite and not very useful build to achieve such but he showed its possible and with sustain lowered as he mentioned those extremes wouldn't be needed.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

Well u could run CS/DA/TRICK with zerk,scholars and assassin sig and do high backstabs on squishier builds but issue is builds got low clears and low utility so not very useful outside of that initial burst, thsts fine issue is other classes can build far more useful and tanky builds in general while bursting the same as that thief build lol.

We saw Vallun try that. Even with all that, most he got were 6k backstabs, and usually less. Thats still not really enough.

Well if sustain was lowered that 6k could possibly result in significantly more. Sustain is obviously to high, we kno that right? I mean power dps dropped but hp/armor wasn't nor was barrier or shroud like skills. Root on ranger was effectively made broken by this as well. Imaging thief got a damage buff and the sustain gets lowered as we know needs to happen, thiefs damage would be nerfed again so fast so why not just lower sustain?

Thing is that 6k was on a target that doesnt have much sustain. Their sustain wouldnt be lowered.

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AldKai.9712

AldKai.9712

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

Well u could run CS/DA/TRICK with zerk,scholars and assassin sig and do high backstabs on squishier builds but issue is builds got low clears and low utility so not very useful outside of that initial burst, thsts fine issue is other classes can build far more useful and tanky builds in general while bursting the same as that thief build lol.

zerkhhhhahahahahaha

People don't play thief past bronze where zerk flies.

Anything less than 16k HP will get melted in one shot. Anything around 16k, ie Marauder, ie the thing you
should
be running as a power thief, will only get you melted in two hits, which is a 200% efficiency increase. Amazing.

Of course, to be viable, you still have to take Flickering Shadows, and multiple ports, and at least two stunbreaks, and...

...And the only way I can make core power thief work in this meta, especially with P/P bang bang, is to put 70% of the build into disruption or defense. I wish I had a fourth specline so I could also take Acrobatics, but alas I have to be a minimum relevant at some point and have to take Deadly arts for that Executionner's Strike, so I can at the very least try to go for food the grownups on my team have chewed up a little for me.

'Thief is fine'

Not it's not. Shame on that guy for being misleading for the sake of drumming up drama and therefore attention. Several mechanics are broken but beyond that, is thief 'fine' on its own? It's fun, it doesn't delete people if you don't run the current condi meta, yes, it's 'fine', it's 'fine' as in it would be actually fine if the rest of the game was balanced around thief right now. If you brought all the other classes back to Thief's current powerlevel, the PvP meta would be a lot less cancerous. But it's not, actually, fine to play right now. At all. It's kitten.

Also, you can't even tell what's a squishy build anymore. There is no tell whether that guy is wearing Paladin Amulet or Zerk. Eles can just rock attune and give you the middle finger, mesmer you have no reason to try and attack them, necros are the entire opposite of what a guy with a cloth robe should be in a knife fight. What exactly is a squishy build to a thief? Well, any other thief.

I know, my point was the full dps build vallun advocated was basically a way to show thief could do high dps, to bad build is bad and would be useless in serious play, like a 3 min cd elite. Also I've never been near bronze so not sure what flies there, I'm guessing anything.

'Hey look thief can do damage! With this build he can do as much as a one-armed warrior. He's just going to die from retaliation damage alone'

You summed thief right now pretty well.

EDIT: Also P/P is good, it's fine and fun. Continuous unload is the only thing that works on necros, and even with landing it all the time without being bothered by anyone it still takes more than thirty seconds to get them to a state where they have to consider taking cover. I never got the aversion for P/P, it's a great power build choice and my mainstay in this current meta where approaching anything will murder you. It's got some (too costly) utility, it can daze to save teammates, it's got an immobilize (never use this) and it's got an easygoing stealth attack. Use it in duelling and keep switching from daggers to dual pistols all day to confuse your opponent and keep his rotation on the wrong schedule. Bait him in melee then port away and shoot him, then when he walks back and takes ranged or projectile shield take daggers and do a steal-stab. You still hit like a noodle so it's not what's going to kill, but it's mostly that you confuse your opponent and so make it easier for you to avoid getting it by his worst skills. Once he's all nice and worn out drop him safely from a distance or use heartseeker, but always expect to get stunslammed, so don't forget to use your basilisk venom first. That's how I do it, and it's dirty work that feels like wrangling a bear into submission... But that's Power Thief right now.

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Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the ShortbowYou havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

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AldKai.9712

AldKai.9712

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Just got insulted by not one but two teammates because I the core Thief won't go duel a Weaver for the point while they sit on their ass mid not trying to help.

This is the community you created. This is the community you are. It's a community that is heinous, toxic, selfish and completely disconnected from the reality of things. I've mentionned before how only thief gets insulted in every single game no matter what they are doing; the same people in game insulting you for not committing suicide on a hopeless fight are the same people that come here to troll your profession forum, demand more nerfs to your class and tell you that you only exist for blowjobs and running away from fights.

When will the devs respond publicly to this?

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its Staff. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves 600 in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let me explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its
Staff
. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves
600
in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of HoloAnd why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?

People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more

Your backstab did 7k + 2.5 from leach + 3,5k from auto attacks

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its
Staff
. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves
600
in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo

And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.

And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?

Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.

People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more

Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its
Staff
. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves
600
in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo

And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.

And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?

Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.

People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more

Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.

Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 15 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yardsHolo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.600 yards in 15 sec + 480 on foot x 7 = 3360

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its
Staff
. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves
600
in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo

And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.

And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?

Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.

People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more

Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.

Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 10 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yardsHolo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.000 yards in 10 sec

Nice theory. Only problem is you wont be able to heartseeker + dash every 1.5 seconds. They too have a cooldown, you know? You also forget that the Engineer can still walk. Try adding both of those things into your shoddy math. You will find something peculiar.

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

Already retracted the statement. You continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. I already explained to you why failure to answer the question makes your entire argument fall apart and proves that in-combat stealth is in fact bad. So dont disappoint.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its
Staff
. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves
600
in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo

And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.

And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?

Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.

People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more

Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.

Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 10 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yardsHolo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.000 yards in 10 sec

Nice theory. Only problem is you wont be able to heartseeker + dash every 1.5 seconds. They too have a cooldown, you know? You also forget that the Engineer can still
walk
. Try adding both of those things into your shoddy math. You will find something peculiar.

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

Already retracted the statement. You continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. I already explained to you why failure to answer the question makes your entire argument fall apart and proves that in-combat stealth is in fact bad. So dont disappoint.

I calcualated the walk path (just refresh it) 9.000 vs 7000 yards in 15 sec .Still those 2x spell will outclass the Holo Leap , so the theory of that thief is in dire need of the shortbow , is debunked

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?Because in the Tournaments , i saw thieves stealth mid-combat

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Leonidrex.5649

Leonidrex.5649

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@AldKai.9712 said:Just got insulted by not one but two teammates because I the core Thief won't go duel a Weaver for the point while they sit on their kitten mid not trying to help.

This is the community you created. This is the community you are. It's a community that is heinous, toxic, selfish and completely disconnected from the reality of things. I've mentionned before how only thief gets insulted in every single game no matter what they are doing; the same people in game insulting you for not committing suicide on a hopeless fight are the same people that come here to troll your profession forum, demand more nerfs to your class and tell you that you only exist for blowjobs and running away from fights.

When will the devs respond publicly to this?

they could start by banning you, one toxic person at a time.Ironically you go about calling everyone toxic ;p

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its
Staff
. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves
600
in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo

And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.

And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?

Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.

People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more

Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.

Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 10 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yardsHolo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.000 yards in 10 sec

Nice theory. Only problem is you wont be able to heartseeker + dash every 1.5 seconds. They too have a cooldown, you know? You also forget that the Engineer can still
walk
. Try adding both of those things into your shoddy math. You will find something peculiar.

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

Already retracted the statement. You continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. I already explained to you why failure to answer the question makes your entire argument fall apart and proves that in-combat stealth is in fact bad. So dont disappoint.

I calcualated the walk path (just refresh it) 9.000 vs 7000 yards in 15 sec .Still those 2x spell will outclass the Holo Leap , so the theory of that thief is in dire need of the shortbow , is debunked

You forgot to calculate the fact that Dash and Heartseeker have cooldowns. Back to the drawing board with you, do the math properly this time.

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

Which part of "that statement was retracted" do you not understand? You still continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. Oh and since this is getting tiresome and repetitive, this is your last chance. If you fail to answer the question this time, I am forced to assume you have no answer. Meaning, as explained, we resolve the contradiction the way we resolve any contradictions, by figuring out which assumption is incorrect. There is only one assumption here, namely "in-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it", so that will be deemed incorrect. You will admit that you were wrong. Got it? Good, then go ahead, answer the question.

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AldKai.9712

AldKai.9712

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@AldKai.9712 said:Just got insulted by not one but two teammates because I the core Thief won't go duel a Weaver for the point while they sit on their kitten mid not trying to help.

This is the community you created. This is the community you are. It's a community that is heinous, toxic, selfish and completely disconnected from the reality of things. I've mentionned before how only thief gets insulted in every single game no matter what they are doing; the same people in game insulting you for not committing suicide on a hopeless fight are the same people that come here to troll your profession forum, demand more nerfs to your class and tell you that you only exist for blowjobs and running away from fights.

When will the devs respond publicly to this?

they could start by banning you, one toxic person at a time.Ironically you go about calling everyone toxic ;p

Literally all you do here is troll, just like on the other thread, it's trolling and personal attacks and provocations. You have nothing intelligent to add and you're not even a thief player, you're a mesmer main, ie one of the most bs classes in this game. Don't try to pretend you're here for any other reason than talking down people and getting attention, and I'm not biting that bait.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

Since he isnt using shortbow, actually he has fewer tools to escape death than other burst specs do. They
do
have that luxury. Calling thief a burst spec right now is also pretty generous, Id call it a gnat. That being said, since Shortbow 5 is literally the only reason thief is any good, playing without it is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dash and Heartseeker also gives mobility .We didn't have Dash in Vanilia , and we still where king of obility

Because we still had shortbow 5. Dash and Heartseeker both are completely insufficient. Holosmith already has better mobility than those 2. So uh, yeah, your complete lack of thief knowledge is showing.

And now we have Dash+ Shortbow to even more mobility .

Yes, but Dash, while nice, is not neccessary. Thats why core thief was the best recently.

You can already use Dash and change the shortbow to something else . In vanilia you only had it , because it was the only option to run away . Now its not true

You cannot run away with Dash. You cannot use dash as a substitute for shortbow. As I said, Dash is already outperformed by
Holosmith
, and Holosmith isnt even high on the mobility list. Shortbow 5 was the only option to run away in Vanilla. It still however is the only option.

Just ask for some tip , you dont have to be stubborn

Im not stubborn. If I ask for tips, I would from a good thief. Why would I ask tips from you? All that would do is make me a
much
worse thief. If I played thief, anyway. You also still havent explained why, if in-combat stealth is so good, sindrener never uses it.

We are talking about metabuild. If we are going to the route or comparing Core builds , then enginners cannot benefit from the Holo Proffesion and thus invalidates your argument .

The point is that until recently, the meta build
was
core. Because Dash, while nice, is not essential.

Dash+Heartseeker can outrun a 2 sec 600 yard leap Holo .

You evidently have no clue, as usual. No, they cannot. Holo Leap and Dash have the same cast time and both lead to permaswiftness. But Holo leap gets you 33% further. Cooldown wise, holo leap is about on par with the entire combined might of Dash and Heartseeker. Its much better at long distances. At short ones, not so much, but Dash and Heartseeker are bad at those.

People had used the Daredevil spec 8-9 motnsh after its release for various amount of spec , such as PI-headshot / Stuff/Stuff / and up until this point Dearedevil D/P

Only PI Headshot. Staff was not relevant until a gimmick build last year. But yes, people used Daredevil. I didnt say it wasnt good. Just that it was not requiired.

Leap effects dont benefit from movement abilities or Slows . Just ask me rather be stuborn

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the fact that without shortbow 5, thiefs mobility is lacking. And outclassed by even holosmith. And noone should ask you for advice, unless they want advice on how to become a much worse thief player. You still havent answered why, if in-combat stealth is good, Sindrener doesnt use it. Dont forget to answer.

Stuff was was usedin the past , thats why is heavily nerfed also in the pvp section .

Its
Staff
. And no, it wasnt used in the past at all. Thats why, for the entirety of HoT, it never got a single nerf.

You where the one to say that they can leap for more . Implying that leap benefits from the swiftness .

Dash moves 450 in 0.75 seconds. Holo Leap moves
600
in 0.75 seconds. 600 > 450. God.

As i said Dash+Heartseeker is your friend , you dont need the Shortbow

You absolutely do, because Dash and Heartseeker isnt even remotely fast enough. But you would know that, had you ever played thief.

You havent asked my question where Sing+ Tokier have said that new thieves should not use in-combat stealth ...i wait

I told you I retracted that statement. So lets talk about your contradiction. You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why? And let explain to you why you need to answer this. See, if you dont have an explanation, we do the usual thing when we get a statement with a contradiction. We assume one of the assumptions is incorrect. Since Sindrenever never using in-combat stealth is easily verifiable fact, that means there is only one assumption that could be incorrect. That being "in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it". So if you dont answer, we have to assume that that assumption is incorrect. Therefore you implicitely admit that you were wrong. Easy, no?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@AldKai.9712 if you managed to die as FRESH thief with all coldown then its l2p issue.
6s reveal, 2k range. That revealed you, all you had to do is sb5, and laugh at them, if they follow steal to one of them and sb5 again, if they follow shadowstep and keep laughting, they follow again shadowstep again and sb5 again, keep up the laughting and jumping to make sure to tilt them, WHOOPS revel is gone, later nerds.About knockdown, shadowstep removes CC, it does it twice, any reason you didnt do it ? Other then to make this post ofc

Yes, a l2p issue. Sure. Your post is literally full of stupid assumptions.

As I mentionned already (but you didn't read that) I am, shocker shocker,a thief that does NOT use your kitten shortbow. No sir! And my shadowstep is on CD because I used it to reach close fast. But I bet you're some master thief, just LAUGHING your kitten off at players that can't even run after you! They just took your points and they're laughing at you back, but hey, at least you can come here and calling others noobs for not playing with your copy-paste metabattle shortbow build.

Just l2p!

1) If you had shortbow and they sent 3 people to your close, you could have zipped out of there and snowball rest of the map..then gone back and reclaimed your close2) Playing a thief without shortbow in PvP..it's like playing an ele with staff or a ranger without GS...don't blame the game for your lack of wisdow, every class must be played to its strength..not some lore background3) If you don't to play +1 decapper/burst then play something that suits your style

You are literally a troll. Play thief, don't talk to me until you do.

He is right, you know. If I see two or more enemies approaching cap I am standing on I am noping out of there with my short bow like there is no tomorrow. While I am noping out I try to +1 my team on mid or where ever it is needed. Then I come back to from where I was chased out and it is usually unguarded. If there is only one I am more often then not able to hold my ground with the help of my fellow thieves (guild of thieves).

Exactly and that's where thiefs strengths lie. Other classes cant just leave relatively safely like thief when being approached by to other opponents and are usually 1v2 while trying to escape and destroyed lol.This would be the best play even if thorf had a better burst potential.I think what find is the issue is if thief as a decapper/+1 burst class if ur +1ing with ur teammate and with both attacking the opponent it still takes a long time to down that opponent that should ring some bells toward either the sustain of the opponents or the burst potential of the class +1ing.Not saying thief needs a burst buff just that something needs to be looked at if those scenarios are occurring frequently.

If they can't escape then they need enough sustain to wait for reinforcements , you are right saying that the wait aka time to kill cannot be too long for balance reasons obviously but that doesn't change the fact that sustain is necessary for some classes to counterbalance their inability to escape safely as a thief.

If a spec invested in sustain then it should survive for enough time, say...40s...if now it's 1m+ then we need to reduce the sustain of such specs to reasonable levels and lower the kill time to 40s from 1m+, I hope thieves are not asking to lower the kill time to 0s like insta kill the +1 player even if he has full CD

Uh I dunno,
we
certainly get instakilled. Why only us?

You
certainly get insta killed because your build lacks any means of escape, otherwise there is no way to insta kill a thief right now unless you play a "kill or die" spec and thief is afk or with no CD left to spare, either way if you play a burst spec with a zerker/marauder at 0 toughness you can expect always to live far less than somebody who specced in defense with a toughness amulet

Wrong assumption as usual. I play Marauder and most of my utilities are stealth / stunbreak / escapes. Just play thief already holy kitten. Play thief and stop trying to pretend you know anything about the class when you
don't
play thief.

So you have all the tools to escape death on thief while using a burst spec...a luxury other professions don't have and that will be all from me to you

And as a higher sustain class u can last far longer in situations where a thief would disengage from so ur point?Are u expecting tanks to disengage like thieves or thieves to not be able to disengage and be low sustain or u want thiefs to be high sustain and not need to disengage which isn't very rogue like.

Other professions that don't invest in sustain and try to play like a thief instead, will live a far shorter time compared to a thief in the same role..that's all I am saying

Nope. They would still live a much longer time. Higher base stats, and higher defenses you happen to have anyway. Hell just take Spellbreaker, or as I like to call it, "Fat Thief". Even when it doesnt invest in sustain, it still will live much longer.

You mention spellbreaker but that's a sustain line sort of, I was comparing a profession using a DPS spec to a thief, in warrior case it would be Berseker which yes would live far less than a thief in the same role, while using dps lines like strength , discipline and Berseker. I have said that a profession trying to play like thief while using dps lines and amulet..would not live as long, not forgetting that you won't be able to relocate just as fast if at all.

Spellbreaker is not a sustain line at all. It has no sustain. Its a DPS and Boonrip line. It also feels like thief, hence fat thief. But sure, lets go Berserker. That one too, lives much longer than thief does. Even if they go full offense.

Let's no try to play down the obvious strengths of the thief class, everybody including you is well aware of them, yes they are glaring disparities at the moment but credit is due where is due

I mean, the obvious strength thief has is mobility. But thats it.

Thief has also , the element of the first strike . Thats dealt 2/3 of the target hp and then toy him with Daze .Or re-stealth and do that again or run away

You really need to stop talking about thief, the more you do, the more clear it becomes to everyone you dont know thief at all. You dont even do 1/2 of a targets HP out of stealth. You will struggle to even do 1/3. 1/4, maybe. Good thieves still dont restealth mid-combat. They will run away. You still havent answered why if in-combat stealth is so good, Sindrener never uses it. Dont forget to answer.

You did chunk 2/3 of the oponnents health before the february patch.And you still havent answered my question : In which Thread or Stream Tokier+Sind told the new players : dont use stealth in-combat'' ?Or otherwise if you wild immagination , doing your thing ?

You didnt. You did at most 1/3. Again, dont talk about a class you dont know at all. And just to shut you up. Lets assume they didnt say that. They did, but I cant be bothered to find evidence you ignore anyway. You still have yet to explain the critical contradiction that makes your entire argument fall apart. If in-combat stealth is so good, then Sindrener would use it. He is a top tier thief playing at the highest level. Yet, he doesnt. Why?

Before theFebruary patch , they did only 1/3 ? I am sorry , but you are wrong here , as always

Yup. Your Backstab usually hit for 7k or so, often less. Since everyone ran Marauder, your targets usually had 21+k health. 21/7=0.333333 or 1/3.

Heartseeker+Dash = 900 vs 600 of Holo

And 1.5 second cast time vs 0.75. Still less distance traveled per second. With a longer cooldown in the end.

And why we dont see holo be used as a fast +1 ? Maybe because their job is to defend a place ?

Because Holo Leap isnt good enough. Its much better than a thief without shortbow 5, but thats not nearly enough. You need more mobility for a fast +1. Thats also why thief without shortbow doesnt work.

People on the tournament have used stealth . Vallun have used to to escape with dash from some tricky situations . Even people using the Shadow Embrace trait in the metabattle , implies that thief dont use for dispel only 1x condition when they cast the 20 sec heal . It has many more uses , when they stealth more

Youre dodging the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question.

Heartseeker + Dash > 900 yards 1,5 sec . In 10 sec you will have traveled 9.000 yardsHolo 600 yards> wait 2 sec . He would have traveled 3.000 yards in 10 sec

Nice theory. Only problem is you wont be able to heartseeker + dash every 1.5 seconds. They too have a cooldown, you know? You also forget that the Engineer can still
walk
. Try adding both of those things into your shoddy math. You will find something peculiar.

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

Already retracted the statement. You continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. I already explained to you why failure to answer the question makes your entire argument fall apart and proves that in-combat stealth is in fact bad. So dont disappoint.

I calcualated the walk path (just refresh it) 9.000 vs 7000 yards in 15 sec .Still those 2x spell will outclass the Holo Leap , so the theory of that thief is in dire need of the shortbow , is debunked

You forgot to calculate the fact that Dash and Heartseeker have cooldowns. Back to the drawing board with you, do the math properly this time.

Could you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

Which part of "that statement was retracted" do you not understand? You still continue to dodge the question. Let me repeat it. "You say that in-combat stealth is good, and high tier thieves use it. Yet Sindrener never uses it. Why?". Answer the question. Oh and since this is getting tiresome and repetitive, this is your last chance. If you fail to answer the question this time, I am forced to assume you have no answer. Meaning, as explained, we resolve the contradiction the way we resolve any contradictions, by figuring out which assumption is incorrect. There is only one assumption here, namely "in-combat stealth is good and high tier thieves use it", so that will be deemed incorrect. You will admit that you were wrong. Got it? Good, then go ahead, answer the question.

When you do Dash/or Heartseeker (loked in that 1,5 sec animation) you still regain resources + endurance .You only need 3x Dash/or Heartseeker combo , to travel from Mid to FarSo thiefs MUST have shortbow to escape or for mobility , is not correct , thats my argument

I saw people use stealth on the tournamentsCould you show me thread or video where Tokier+ Sind , said to the new thieves that they shouldn't use stealth , please ?

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