Idea: New Core Weapon - Sword

[Taril.8619]

So I was thinking. Necro only has a single Condi MH weapon in their core kit, Scepter. This means that currently, any Condi Necro build has to use Scepter (Thus is then also pushed towards Lingering Curse trait)

As such, what if there was a new Condi weapon for core? What if it was also a melee weapon?

So here is my idea, Sword: Given that Scepter focuses on primarily Bleeding and Torment while Scourge Torch focuses on Burning and Torment, I figure a new Condi weapon could focus more on Poison and Torment (Thus could benefit from Putrid Defence trait in Death Magic that buffs specifically Poison)

Skill 1:

Plague Slash

Slash at your foe dealing damage and applying Poison.0.6 power coeficient.4s Poison duration.Max targets 30.5s cast time.

Pain Strike

Strike at your foe dealing damage and causing extreme pain, applying Torment.0.6 power coeficient.4s Torment duration.Max targets 30.5s cast time.

Bile Cut

Cut your foe with a blade covered in necrotic energy, dealing damage and applying conditions.(2x) 0.8 power coeficientTorment 6s duration.Poison 6s duration.5% Life Force GenerationMax targets 30.5s cast time.

Skill 2

Disseminate

Release a blast of necrotic energy, spreading your conditions to nearby foes and applying Poison.1.0 power coeficient2 stacks of poison 10s duration.8% Life Force GenerationBlast Combo FinisherMax targets 5Conditions transferred per target 10.75s cast time.10s cooldown

Skill 3

Agonizing Plague

Strike at foes in front of you with your blade and necrotic energy dealing damage and applying conditions.(8x) 2.0 power coeficient4 stacks of poison 6s duration4 stacks of torment 6s durationMax targets 50.5s cast time20s cooldown(Can move while casting)

Edit: Added some LF Generation. Updated skills 1 and 2 (3rd attack of auto attack now deals 2 instances of damage. Skill 2 is a Blast finisher)

[KrHome.1920]

...or just rework dagger to this.

I don't even need to review your skill suggestions. Dagger can't become worse.

[Taril.8619]

@KrHome.1920 said:...or just rework dagger to this.

I don't even need to review your skill suggestions. Dagger can't become worse.

But then Necro only has 1 Core Power weapon...

Also some people like Dagger as is, for whatever reason...

[KrHome.1920]

@Taril.8619 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:...or just rework dagger to this.

I don't even need to review your skill suggestions. Dagger can't become worse.

But then Necro only has 1 Core Power weapon...Your weapon is 100% hybrid. Just look at your direct damage modifiers (0.6 - 2.0). And a hybrid weapon is what core can make the most use of. Curses, Death Magic, Soul Reaping ... they all have condi components and core has to pick at least one of these.

Also some people like Dagger as is, for whatever reason...These people should be ignored.

[Kulvar.1239]

I only like OH dagger, please proceed

[Dadnir.5038]

No LF gen on any skill?

[Taril.8619]

@Dadnir.5038 said:No LF gen on any skill?

Uhh...

I knew I forgot something...

Will figure something out and update

[Sigmoid.7082]

Imho:

Skill 3 seems boring. Pretty much most swords have some sort of flurry. Cast time is also too low for how strong it is.

Skill 2 steps on the toes of epidemic if I am reading this correctly. Also has no stack cap so would let you double dip on the abilities strength and suddenly gain 50stacks of a condition. Would rather it do something else with a count of 2.

No LF generation

No boon corruption.

Auto is ok. Maybe make it closer to ranger dagger and have 4 strike so you can throw bleeding in there on the first auto and last auto. Turn the last into a multi hit to benefit from on crit in curses and life siphon in blood. Should up the potential since most of the damage is loaded onto 3 and it has a pretty high cooldown and make missing it slightly less punishing.

[Taril.8619]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Skill 3 seems boring. Pretty much most swords have some sort of flurry. Cast time is also too low for how strong it is.

Well, most swords having a flurry suggests most swords will end up getting a flurry right?

As for its cast time/power, I used Weaver Earth 3 as a guide for its strength and cast time (But lowered its power coeficient significantly to put on some extra condi duration and increased its CD), last I checked, that wasn't a particularly broken.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Skill 2 steps on the toes of epidemic if I am reading this correctly. Also has no stack cap so would let you double dip on the abilities strength and suddenly gain 50stacks of a condition. Would rather it do something else with a count of 2.

You're not reading it correctly.

It doesn't do anything even remotely close to Epidemic.

It works more like Deathly Swarm. It takes conditions on you and gives them to enemies. I.e. Another way to work with Corruption skills and their self-Condi applications.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:No LF generation

I'm working on that... Forgot to add it initially.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:No boon corruption.

Shouldn't really be needed. Given the vast number of utilities that Necro has that corrupt boons as well as literally half of offhand weapons provide boon corruption/strip if needed.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Auto is ok. Maybe make it closer to ranger dagger and have 4 strike so you can throw bleeding in there on the first auto and last auto.

Okay. But why?

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Taril.8619 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Skill 3 seems boring. Pretty much most swords have some sort of flurry. Cast time is also too low for how strong it is.

Well, most swords having a flurry suggests most swords will end up getting a flurry right?

Doesn't make it any less boring though inho.

As for its cast time/power, I used Weaver Earth 3 as a guide for its strength and cast time (But lowered its power coeficient significantly to put on some extra condi duration and increased its CD), last I checked, that wasn't a particularly broken.

I know you did this. But my reasoning is because Rust/Natural Frenzy are irritating to get to and requires you to be in two fairly non damaging attunements and you will be in one of them for an extended amount of time i.e it isnt always readily available due to the nature of weaver. Also poison and torment are far stronger than bleed/ bleed + vulnerability. Increasing the cast time to 0.75 seems reasonable.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Skill 2 steps on the toes of epidemic if I am reading this correctly. Also has no stack cap so would let you double dip on the abilities strength and suddenly gain 50stacks of a condition. Would rather it do something else with a count of 2.

You're not reading it correctly.

It doesn't do anything even remotely close to Epidemic.

It works more like Deathly Swarm. It takes conditions on you and gives them to enemies. I.e. Another way to work with Corruption skills and their self-Condi applications.

Fair enough.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:No LF generation

I'm working on that... Forgot to add it initially.

Ok

@Sigmoid.7082 said:No boon corruption.

Shouldn't really be needed. Given the vast number of utilities that Necro has that corrupt boons as well as literally half of offhand weapons provide boon corruption/strip if needed.

Half the offhand weapons doing it doesn't prevent every mainhand having it. The only necro weapon that doesnt corrupt boons is staff and probably for good reason.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Auto is ok. Maybe make it closer to ranger dagger and have 4 strike so you can throw bleeding in there on the first auto and last auto.

Okay. But why?The reasoning is in the section of the comment you didn't quote. It also limits how quickly you can reapply poison as i would shift the poison tot he last 2 hits, auto#3 and auto #4. Plus because its more interesting.

[Taril.8619]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Doesn't make it any less boring though.

True, but it's simple and effective. Unlike some of the jank skills that Necro weapons/kits have been stuck with such as Nightfall/Executioner's Scythe/Life Siphon/Unholy Feast/Marks

It also quite easily lends itself to applying many stacks of conditions, which is the staple for condition builds these days (To drop like 20-30 stack of conditions nigh instantly...)

Admittedly, I was toying about with an idea for a new mechanic, one that is utilized by the Sand Eel enemies in PoF - Which is their "Feeding" debuff that for its duration applies bleeding stacks up to a cap (Which is 5).

The issue with such a thing is trying to balance it, especially on a weapon designed around the application of poison - The PvP rammifications for a sticky poison that can't be easily cleansed (Since you can't remove the Feeding debuff and cleansing the bleeds just makes them stack up again) are significant, more so than ease of reapplying poison with auto attacks (On a class with low mobility and a melee weapon with no CC effects)

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I know you did this. But my reasoning is because Rust/Natural Frenzy are irritating to get to and requires you to be in two fairly non damaging attunements and you will be in one of them for an extended amount of time i.e it isnt always readily available due to the nature of weaver. Also poison and torment are far stronger than bleed/ bleed + vulnerability. Increasing the cast time to 0.75 seems reasonable.

... Hence why I lowered the power damage and upped the cooldown...

If 0.75s cast time is deemed necessary during balance testing, that could easily be done. But right now I'd also try and stay away from the awkwardness which is many of Necro's attacks being really slow for no good reason (Like, I get that GS was designed to be slow, but Reaper is so slow it necessitates the perma-Quickness trait, Dagger and Axe skills are really slow and in the cases where skills don't have slow cast times, their projectiles/effects occur really slowly)

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Half the offhand weapons doing it doesn't prevent every mainhand having it. The only necro weapon that doesnt corrupt boons is staff and probably for good reason.

But still, the weapon is functional without it and as you said, Poison and Torment are stronger than Bleed?

Is there any reason for putting it on Sword other than "Every other Necro weapon (Sans Staff) has it"?

Would it be lacking if it didn't convert boons? Given that boon conversion is only really good in the place where Poison becomes even more effective (PvP/WvW) which is what this weapon excells in applying?

@Sigmoid.7082 said:The reasoning is in the section of the comment you didn't quote. It also limits how quickly you can reapply poison. Plus because its more interesting.

I read that, but there's no reasoning for adding bleed.

Your only reasoning is for adding multi-hit on the final strike to synergize with Curses and Blood specs.

No reasoning for why add bleeding to a weapon that's focus is about Poison and Torment?

If you want bleeding, go use Scepter. That's what it does. This weapon is about Poison.

Also, I don't see how it's more interesting to simply copy/paste SB dagger and simply replace Vuln with Torment which is what your suggestion would do (Given that SB dagger applies Vuln/Bleed/Poison > Vuln+Bleed+Poison across its 4 hit combo)

Even more so trying to work a sword for a 4 hit combo sounds like it'll end up feeling underwhelming, since it's typically Daggers that do attacks fast enough to be 0.25s cast times and thus a 4 strike combo ends up taking 1s total, while typcial Sword attack have 0.5-0.75s cast times and thus would take 2 seconds to do 4 attacks. With the nature of attack chains being backloaded to the final strike that would be so ridiculously awful to play with due to interrupting auto attack chains when using abilities or dodging (This will be on top of Necro's reknowned lack of mobility options - Even more so with a melee weapon outside of Reaper)

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Taril.8619 said:... Hence why I lowered the power damage and upped the cooldown...

If 0.75s cast time is deemed necessary during balance testing, that could easily be done. But right now I'd also try and stay away from the awkwardness which is many of Necro's attacks being really slow for no good reason (Like, I get that GS was designed to be slow, but Reaper is so slow it necessitates the perma-Quickness trait, Dagger and Axe skills are really slow and in the cases where skills don't have slow cast times, their projectiles/effects occur really slowly)

Its better to compare it with shackling wave than the rust / natural frenzy skills since its ever present. Lower the cooldown but upping the cast time is reasonable. It also allows more counter-play to what is an incredibly strong skill.

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:Half the offhand weapons doing it doesn't prevent every mainhand having it. The only necro weapon that doesnt corrupt boons is staff and probably for good reason.

But still, the weapon is functional without it and as you said, Poison and Torment are stronger than Bleed?

Is there any reason for putting it on Sword other than "Every other Necro weapon (Sans Staff) has it"?

Would it be lacking if it didn't convert boons? Given that boon conversion is only really good in the place where Poison becomes even more effective (PvP/WvW) which is what this weapon excells in applying?

Obviously I feel so otherwise I would't have brought it up. To me boon corruption on necro weapons is just as important and thematic as symbols on guardian weapons. We know skills can do specific conversion so if anything you could have a skill that removes a boon and applies more poison if it manages to do so. I would change the condition transfer to something like this on sword 2. Not having any at all I feel would be lacking to me.

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:The reasoning is in the section of the comment you didn't quote. It also limits how quickly you can reapply poison. Plus because its more interesting.

I read that, but there's no reasoning for adding bleed.

Your only reasoning is for adding multi-hit on the final strike to synergize with Curses and Blood specs.

No reasoning for why add bleeding to a weapon that's focus is about Poison and Torment?

If you want bleeding, go use Scepter. That's what it does. This weapon is about Poison.

Also, I don't see how it's more interesting to simply copy/paste SB dagger and simply replace Vuln with Torment which is what your suggestion would do (Given that SB dagger applies Vuln/Bleed/Poison > Vuln+Bleed+Poison across its 4 hit combo)

Even more so trying to work a sword for a 4 hit combo sounds like it'll end up feeling underwhelming, since it's typically Daggers that do attacks fast enough to be 0.25s cast times and thus a 4 strike combo ends up taking 1s total, while typcial Sword attack have 0.5-0.75s cast times and thus would take 2 seconds to do 4 attacks. With the nature of attack chains being backloaded to the final strike that would be so ridiculously awful to play with due to interrupting auto attack chains when using abilities or dodging (This will be on top of Necro's reknowned lack of mobility options - Even more so with a melee weapon outside of Reaper)

Again because

I

think its more interesting. You may see no reason for it but I do. Having a weapon that just "another sword with a flurry" but condi X/Y/Z is boring to me. But fine its your idea, leave it as a 3 hit but the poison has to be moved to the last part of the auto chain. Every auto attack that applies poison always does so last because of how strong it is and forcing you to commit to it to get it. I would also change the cast time to 0.75s.

Besides all this we'll never get this as a core weapon and it really belongs on an elite spec to properly fresh it out properly.

I like the direction though.

[Taril.8619]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Obviously I feel so otherwise I would't have brought it up. To me boon corruption on necro weapons is just as important and thematic as symbols on guardian weapons. We know skills can do specific conversion so if anything you could have a skill that removes a boon and applies more poison if it manages to do so. I would change the condition transfer to something like this on sword 2. Not having any at all I feel would be lacking to me.

Well, to me boon corruption on Necro weapons isn't that important. Heck, even when thinking about weapons and Boon hate I think of Mesmer before Necro because Mesmer Sword strips boons and deals more damage based on this.

Meanwhile, actually playing Condi Necro, what I'm always wanting more of, is condi transfer. Because that's the entire gimmick surrounding their Corruption skills, the only skills they have that actually do anything for Condi builds (Outside maybe Punishment skills with the trait that makes them cause your next Sand Shade to proc burning... Oh and their boon corruption effect)

If literally any Necro weapon had boon corruption on an auto attack, maybe. Since then it'd at least be applied frequently enough to be a notable mechanic. Otherwise to me, it just feels like an afterthought tacked onto Necro weapons to justify how bad they are because "They Corrupt BOONS!!!"

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Again because I think its more interesting. You may see no reason for it but I do.

But WHY.

That is the question I asked you.

WHY is it more interesting for you that the auto attack applies bleed? What does that achieve that is in any way interesting when Bleed is literally the least interesting condition in the game that has no mechanics to it?

Is it just the fact that it makes the auto attacks of this weapon weaker? How is that more interesting? Having yet another trash Necro weapon on top of the pile of literally every other Necro weapon besides maybe Torch?

I'm open to new ideas to make things more interesting, but I need reasons. More than "I think it's interesting" which is not a reason.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Having a weapon that just "another sword with a flurry" but condi X/Y/Z is boring to me.

Then provide feedback and suggestions instead of "I don't like that" and "I think it should be [insert another classes weapon] instead"

What would you do instead of a flurry? That also stands apart from something like Scepter that applies a stack of Torment based on existing conditions.

But fine its your idea, leave it as a 3 hit but the poison has to be moved to the last part of the auto chain. Every auto attack that applies poison always does so last because of how strong it is and forcing you to commit to it to get it. I would also change the cast time to 0.75s.

But I think it's boring having another weapon that is just "Another sword with poison on its last auto attack"

See how that sort of response feels? Yeah, it's not great.

As far as the poison application goes, I think it's fine as it is. In the places where Poison is strong (PvP) Necro has issues with mobility and actually sticking to a target, which is one of the main issues with Dagger MH too. Add in the fact that the weapon lacks boon corruption (Again, only particularly notable in PvP) and I think it balances out.

Being able to get close enough to land some hits and apply poison will be rewarded with this weapon and it's not like it's terribly hard to get some distance from a Necro to cleanse the poison and heal up (While if the weapon is used by Reaper and they use their Shroud to get close... Well they'll have to choose between dealing damage with Shroud skills or leaving shroud and applying poison)

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Besides all this we'll never get this as a core weapon and it really belongs on an elite spec to properly fresh it out.

Most likely not. Still, I'd love to see it as Core, because I'd love to see the opening up of the options for Core/Scourge and maybe even Reaper condi builds that aren't stuck with Scepter for eternity.

In addition, it being an E-Spec weapon will likely mean that we'd be stuck with an E-Spec with MH Sword and no good OH condi weapon (Because Core OH's are pretty bad for Condi) thus meaning that Scourge will be the go-to Condi build and will still be using Scepter/Torch forever (Due to how OP Burning is). Unless a miracle happens and we end up getting Sword/Sword for an E-Spec and it happens to be busted enough to compete with Burning (Well, if it is you can guess it'll get nerfed into the dirt in no time flat)

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Taril.8619 said:This is getting boring now so I'm not going to participate anymore. I don't feel like going into an overly large amount of detail more and writing long posts for a completely hypothetical idea in every sense. We clearly have different ideals and design ethos.

With all due respect, I like the direction, but not the execution. I'm out.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Anything but the sword. It'a already a weapon that 8/9 professions can use. We don't need it to be used by necro, we need other weapon types to see more use across professions. If you need a necro melee why not try a 1h mace? It makes a much better fit for a necro:

1. Mages are seen carrying smaller 1h blunt weapons in case someone just needs a good whack on the head without wasting precious spells or putting a pricey magical weapon in danger of being damaged in a melee scuffle.

2. Mace represents defense and burliness. Necro is the embodiment of that. Very tanky, very little reliance on tricks (unlike ele and mesmer) to survive. He straight up facetanks his damage, and would profit from a weapon that amplifies that ability.

3. A defensive, melee, condi weapon is what necro really needs. Something that along stacking condies, would features things like weakness, daze/stun, protection...something to help him survive on a weapon, since as any pvp necro knows, that's a very arid area of necro's kit when it comes to keeping yourself alive...

4. As for condition to be applied i think confusion should be the first pick. Necro gets dogpiled a lot, having a punishing condition against such tactics would be lovely. Also few things confuse you more then a mace 2 the face :)

[Taril.8619]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Anything but the sword. It'a already a weapon that 8/9 professions can use. We don't need it to be used by necro, we need other weapon types to see more use across professions.

Well, it's all inclusivity makes more sense for a weapon type becoming Core. As it would seem less out of place.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:If you need a necro melee why not try a 1h mace? It makes a much better fit for a necro:

1. Mages are seen carrying smaller 1h blunt weapons in case someone just needs a good whack on the head without wasting precious spells or putting a pricey magical weapon in danger of being damaged in a melee scuffle.

Maces are more prone to being damaged due to the impact forces they see, especially since they're aimed for hitting the hardest objects (Skulls, armour) it puts a lot of strain on the haft which is typically made out of wood.

In addition, swords can often have ceremonial or ritualistic importance making them have some sense for a practioner of magical arts. Not to mention the entire "Spellblade" archetype is centred around Mages who use Swords to stab people with magic.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

2. Mace represents defense and burliness. Necro is the embodiment of that. Very tanky, very little reliance on tricks (unlike ele and mesmer) to survive. He straight up facetanks his damage, and would profit from a weapon that amplifies that ability.

...Which in this case, would be Sword.

Ranger, Revenant, Weaver, Mesmer, Engie, Thief, Guardian... All their Swords are designed either with in built defensive properties (Ranger has evades, Revenant has its evade skill, Mesmer has evades during its skill 2, Guardian has proj block on its skill 3, Thief gets an evade on the S/D dual wield skill) or is one of the weapons in the kit that emphasises getting up in the face of the enemy (Weaver does a lot more stabbing the opponents face than say, Dagger which is more about dashing everywhere like a sissy. Engie is about leaping at the enemy and slapping them down with heat boosted attacks, Thief's S/P is about standing your ground in Black Powder and slapping people with Pistol Whip)

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

3. A defensive, melee, condi weapon is what necro really needs. Something that along stacking condies, would features things like weakness, daze/stun, protection...something to help him survive on a weapon, since as any pvp necro knows, that's a very arid area of necro's kit when it comes to keeping yourself alive...

Though, given the complete lack of any CC's in Necro's weapons thus far (Really just Knockdown on Torch 5, Fear on Staff 5 and a bit of chill/cripple here and there) it would fit better for a CC heavy weapon to be situated in an E-Spec. Probably one that takes on the "Tank/Bruiser" role for Necro and has mechanics to let Necro actually be able to tank (I.e. Some form of being able to receive healing while in "Shroud").

A CC focused weapon added to Core could cause some balance issues due to adding an influx of CC into the kits of existing builds.

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

4. As for condition to be applied i think confusion should be the first pick. Necro gets dogpiled a lot, having a punishing condition against such tactics would be lovely. Also few things confuse you more then a mace 2 the face :)

This is further a reason for such a thing to end up on an E-Spec. As Confusion is not currently a condition that Necro applies or has synergy with (I.e. There are no traits improving Confusion like there are for Poison, Bleed and Torment).

I could however imagine some sort of Tanky focused E-Spec that brings Confusion to the class alongside some Retaliation (As those 2 are linked via Boon/Condi conversion as well as having synergy together) using Mace to provide some CC when enemies aren't hitting themselves by trying to attack you.

So yeah... While I'm not against Mace for Necro, I'm not entirely sure it would be suitable for Core Necro in the same way something more "Bland" like Sword would be.

[Anchoku.8142]

@KrHome.1920 said:...or just rework dagger to this.

I don't even need to review your skill suggestions. Dagger can't become worse.

Dagger can become worse.

Complaining about scepter being the only condi-dps weapon is a topic since 2013. Reaper gave a choice with Deathly Chill but it was changed for the better to bleed-on-chill, then nerfed, iirc.

There is nothing to burst bleeds with in melee before switching to scepter to maintain stacks with.

[frareanselm.1925]

I agree mainhand dagger needs to be reworked, it's actually useless in all builds

[Yasai.3549]

Appreciate trying to come up with a new weapon for Necro that has actual cleave, but like others said, this is literally what Dagger needs.

If anything we need more Power options for Necro, and I don't really like Sword much for a Necro.Maybe something like a Hammer? or Mace?

Heck, even a Shield with abilities to support MH Dagger could be cool too.Some cool skills might do things like :

• Evade for 0.5 seconds while rushing forward 400 range, Fearing in a 200 AoE upon arrival
• Gives the player Barrier and Stability (Finally, Stab for Necro)

[Taril.8619]

@Yasai.3549 said:Appreciate trying to come up with a new weapon for Necro that has actual cleave, but like others said, this is literally what Dagger needs.

If anything we need more Power options for Necro, and I don't really like Sword much for a Necro.Maybe something like a Hammer? or Mace?

Well, Dagger could be reworked/buffed into a proper Power weapon. Along with Axe getting Unholy Feast buffed.

Which would then give Necro Dagger, Axe and eventually GS as viable Power weapons.

Having a new core weapon for Necro should be a Condi one since Necro ONLY has Scepter for Condi. This is even exacerbated by the fact that Condi builds will often take Scourge and thus won't even get Shroud skills to replace their weapon skill at all (Meanwhile a Power build with Reaper will be using Reaper's Shroud a bunch helping alleviate the need to swap weapons so often)

[Yasai.3549]

@"Taril.8619" said:

Well, Dagger could be reworked/buffed into a proper Power weapon. Along with Axe getting Unholy Feast buffed.

Which would then give Necro Dagger, Axe and eventually GS as viable Power weapons.

Having a new core weapon for Necro should be a Condi one since Necro ONLY has Scepter for Condi. This is even exacerbated by the fact that Condi builds will often take Scourge and thus won't even get Shroud skills to replace their weapon skill at all (Meanwhile a Power build with Reaper will be using Reaper's Shroud a bunch helping alleviate the need to swap weapons so often)

They could rework Staff to be a full Condi weapon as well.Staff right now is all over the place, has Condi, has Power, but isn't exactly good at either unless shooting Staff autos at something for meh damage is considered "good"

I was just thinking,Poison, Bleeding, Siphon, and any sort of vampiric sort of design can be put onto Dagger, while we have a new Power cleaving weapon instead.

[Taril.8619]

@Yasai.3549 said:They could rework Staff to be a full Condi weapon as well.Staff right now is all over the place, has Condi, has Power, but isn't exactly good at either unless shooting Staff autos at something for meh damage is considered "good"

True, but from what I can gather from people who actually like Staff, is that it's supposed to be the "Support" weapon.

Which with some tweaks could actually be a thing - I.e. Add condi cleanse to allies from skill 4, add boons to skill 3 and 5 and you're good to go.

Also, there's something to be said about having a Condi melee weapon for Necro too.

@Yasai.3549 said:I was just thinking,Poison, Bleeding, Siphon, and any sort of vampiric sort of design can be put onto Dagger, while we have a new Power cleaving weapon instead.

Though, it's not as if we don't already have a Power cleaving weapon. Greatsword exists.

Dagger can also be reworked into a cleaving weapon if needs be with minimal changes (Think Life Transfer and Tainted Shackles from Core Shroud instead of Life Siphon and Dark Pact)

Meanwhile, we don't have a second Condi weapon. We don't have a melee Condi weapon. We don't have a Condi weapon with cleave. We don't have a Condi weapon with auto attacks that generate LF.

Most of these points can be hit with a new weapon that is Condi melee. (Which if we're talking about getting a new core weapon, would take as much effort to design as a new core power cleave weapon)

[Dadnir.5038]

Well, you added to much LF gen now. A single skill with LF gen would have been enough (like most other weapons).

[Taril.8619]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well, you added to much LF gen now. A single skill with LF gen would have been enough (like most other weapons).

Well, I was anticipating this weapon being used in PvE. In which LF gen is an issue for Necro due to the lack of dying things during boss fights.

So, instead of being something like Dagger which generates LF on attacks 2 and 3 of its auto attack chain (2% and 6% respectively) or GS which generates LF on all of its attack chain and 2 of its skills (1%, 1%, 5% on skill 1, 12% of skill 3 and 4% per target on skill 5) I'd put in a mix and tone down the numbers.

With the current numbers, each 1.5s auto attack chain is generating 5% LF (Compared to GS's 7% over 2.5s, Dagger's 8% over 2s and Staff's 4% every 0.75s) while the 10s CD skill 2 is generating 8% LF compared to Axe 2's 8s CD 12%, Scepter 3's 10s CD 13% and GS 3's 10s CD 12%.

The numbers seem to be comparable. Though, I'm open to see if you can show otherwise (Something more tangible than "More than 1 skill having LF" as if it's not possible to split LF gen between multiple skills in a weapon)

[KrHome.1920]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well, you added to much LF gen now. A single skill with LF gen would have been enough (like most other weapons).The skills do nothing but damage. No leap, no block, no heal, no defensive boon, no blind, no cripple, no immb... The LF gen is reasonable.

And since necro lacks defensive offhand weapons (e.g. like warrior shield), this leads me to the point that this weapon would only be viable in PvE.