Upcoming Facet of Chaos -patch

[Zaret.1450]

Just why not reworking the whole herald elite spec?

[Virdo.1540]

@zaswer.5246 said:Just why not reworking the whole herald elite spec?

because its good as it is. Its fun for me, its just need some tweaks in PvE.

a lot ,i mean. A TON.

[meri.9187]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"Buran.3796" said:Loved the changes because my power and condi Herald builds remain both mostly untouched. But I wonder why they nerfed the shield, which is barely used, and didn't rework that hot garbage called hammer. Also good to see that they didn't touch the axe now that Astralaria is almost in my pocket.

Anyway, the most important fact provided by the new patch is that all the talk from ANet about having a faster pace of balance updates was nothing short of bs.

im hiting 2-3 k on wanderer stats, some players playing diviner and zerkers based builds sometimes report over 10k hit(wont say the actual value).Sadly hammer rev its the only "not workin" possible counter to the tons of scourges that will be amassing zergs and omniblobs in wvw.... when iu use it on a group of 20+ players, sometimes i get no values.... working as intended.

IDK what Anet is thinking atm in terms of balance but the next months wvw will be pure idioticy.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 , how is rev low dps in pve, sometimes sword 3 hits arorund 20-30k alone... 4-5k autos with perma quiickness...etc.

If you think 4k autos with perma quickness is high, try doing the same thing with reaper. I regularly hit over 10k on the final auto attack by itself. Soul Spiral does 100k in one click. How in the world is Herald gonna compete with that, especially when reaper isn't even the best dps?

Also none of this has anything to do with Facet of Chaos now needing 50% boon duration to even cover pulse timing, which I don't even think is possible in sPvP anymore.

With the compounding herald traitline concentration nerf, boon duration rune nerfs in PvP, the removal of diviner's amulet, and now the gutting of facet of chaos passive, you're right- it is impossible to cover pulse timing in sPvP unless you already started with prot from spirit boon or used shield 4, and even then, it won't be for long.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 , how is rev low dps in pve, sometimes sword 3 hits arorund 20-30k alone... 4-5k autos with perma quiickness...etc.

It benchmarks at 28k DPS. The irony is that you can hit 25k DPS just by spamming autos and sitting on Impossible Odds + Vengeful Hammer. All of the Rev's power skills are designed for PVP utility, and not for DPS. Because of this, mashing every skill on your bar in exact sequence doesn't raise your DPS that much.

[Aeolus.3615]

I dont mind the change, keep Draconic echo :) its important for ventari and herald/ventari, but Facet of Chaos can now have a -3 to -4 pip consume ?

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Aeolus.3615 said:I dont mind the change, keep Draconic echo :) its important for ventari and herald/ventari, but Facet of Chaos can now have a -3 to -4 pip consume ?

We don't want to remove Dracobic Echo, but gutting a core part of Herald that isn't even a problem is just the wrong move no matter how you look at it. Facet of Chaos should stay at -5 and cover pulse timing by default. No facet should require boon duration to maintain when active, and dropping the upkeep cost to compensate for this hilariously stupid nerf will not make up for how bad it is. Draconic Echo needs to be nerfed before anything, not Facets.

[Aeolus.3615]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:I dont mind the change, keep Draconic echo :) its important for ventari and herald/ventari, but Facet of Chaos can now have a -3 to -4 pip consume ?

We don't want to remove Dracobic Echo, but gutting a core part of Herald that isn't even a problem is just the wrong move no matter how you look at it. Facet of Chaos should stay at -5 and cover pulse timing by default. No facet should require boon duration to maintain when active, and dropping the upkeep cost to compensate for this hilariously stupid nerf will not make up for how bad it is. Draconic Echo needs to be nerfed before anything, not Facets.

I completelly agree for some reason is called upkeep skills, but how can u nerf draconic echo????U have it or u dont have it... and herald/ventari builds would loose here, cause draconic echo is what makes ventari a bit better, its f2 can effect 10 players, and remember regen is always the weekest(most time doest even matter much having regen or not) kind of heals in any pvp gamemode.

Any sugestions or changes to ancient echo?

[draxynnic.3719]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:I dont mind the change, keep Draconic echo :) its important for ventari and herald/ventari, but Facet of Chaos can now have a -3 to -4 pip consume ?

We don't want to remove Dracobic Echo, but gutting a core part of Herald that isn't even a problem is just the wrong move no matter how you look at it. Facet of Chaos should stay at -5 and cover pulse timing by default. No facet should require boon duration to maintain when active, and dropping the upkeep cost to compensate for this hilariously stupid nerf will not make up for how bad it is. Draconic Echo needs to be nerfed before anything, not Facets.

Well how can u nerf draconic echo????U have it or u dont have it... and herald/ventari builds would loose here, cause draconic echo is what makes ventari a bit better, its f2 can effect 10 players, and remember regen is always the weekest(most time doest even matter much having regen or not) kind of heals in any pvp gamemode.

I think someone has already said: Reduce the additional duration of the facet from Draconic Echo from 6 seconds to 3 (essentially, one facet 'tick' instead of two).

Presently, the problem with Facet of Chaos and Draconic Echo is that you can activate it and consume it immediately for nine seconds of protection for every ally around you (and a pretty significant CC effect, albeit with one of the biggest tells in the game), consuming relatively little energy in the process. Reducing Draconic Echo to one additional tick instead of two would make it six seconds instead - which is about the same difference that the proposed change would make, but would not be compromising the benefit of paying the price to actually maintain the facet. In the meantime, the effects of the other facets would also be pared back a bit, instead of the full effect of the nerf landing on just Facet of Chaos. (Mind you, other facets are typically maintained for longer periods).

Being a simple numbers change, this is also something that would be easy to split, so PvE could be left as-is. WvW use of the Glint/Ventari build would be affected, but considering that that build tries to maintain Facet of Light and Facet of Chaos for as long as possible, it'd probably be less affected by a nerf to Draconic Echo than a nerf to Facet of Chaos.

So if you want to protect your herald/ventari build, you should be advocating for the nerf to land on Draconic Echo instead of Facet of Chaos.

[Aeolus.3615]

@draxynnic.3719@CutesySylveon.8290(snip)

So if you want to protect your herald/ventari build, you should be advocating for the nerf to land on Draconic Echo instead of Facet of Chaos.

U guys ment reduce the 6 seconds, to something else lower since facets apply every 3 second, that still would make protection perma wich i dont know why Anet thinks its op, while many other classes can achive that and herald will blow every energy gain if wants to mantain it( HEAVY E-management UPKEEP)...

Nerfing draconic echo or the current nerfs to revenant are a bit idiotic IMO, also its just a freaking 1 sec, people that use boon duration will still have it perma, this change make no sense.

They said on stream that revs can be really bulky to they really think its the herald protection? xD

[Xca.9721]

They want to nerf Condi Revs sustain, but instead of nerfing the Resistance uptime they nerf the protection uptime, gutting other non condi rev specs in the process

[meri.9187]

Just checking in to say that this feels exactly as bad as we thought it'd feel. Not only do opponents have a clear second in which to attack without prot, we also have to listen to the sound of our character gaining prot every 3 seconds. Yikes.

Destroy all herald specs to hit condi herald... in the wrong place. Please, revert this change, for the love of god.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Aeolus.3615 said:@draxynnic.3719@CutesySylveon.8290(snip)

So if you want to protect your herald/ventari build, you

should

be advocating for the nerf to land on Draconic Echo instead of Facet of Chaos.

U guys ment reduce the 6 seconds, to something else lower since facets apply every 3 second, that still would make protection perma wich i dont know why Anet thinks its op, while many other classes can achive that and herald will blow every energy gain if wants to mantain it( HEAVY E-management UPKEEP)...

Nerfing draconic echo or the current nerfs to revenant are a bit idiotic IMO, also its just a freaking 1 sec, people that use boon duration will still have it perma, this change make no sense.

They said on stream that revs can be really bulky to they really think its the herald protection? xD

No one proposed nerfing the player count from 10 to anything, though Anet has said on stream before that they were looking into that trait so it might get nerfed anyway. Nerfing Draconic Echo to 3 second pulse after consuming facets would have zero negative impact on your Ventari/Glint build, but reducing Facet of Chaos to 2 second pulse would have a bad impact on every single build that uses Herald, including yours. People in sPvP can't even get enough boon duration to cover the time between pulses because 'it's just a freaking 1 sec' but you seem to forget that puts the pulse time to 2 seconds, so you'd need 50% boon duration to even maintain it and that's not possible in sPvP anymore.

Perma protection is actually very busted and too many classes can do it, but Anet's approach to dealing with it in Herald's case is to butcher a core part of their kit when a trait that essentially lets them instantly consume Facet of Chaos and not only give 10 people protection, but for at least 9 seconds is just the wrong approach no matter how you look at it.

[Virdo.1540]

they maybe have should nerfed protection in pvp/wvw to 25% instead of 33% dmg reduction, and dont just remove an second of Facet of chaos, to get an "no perma-protection" for rev only.

As stated above, many professions are capable of perma prot.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@"Virdo.1540" said:they maybe have should nerfed protection in pvp/wvw to 25% instead of 33% dmg reduction, and dont just remove an second of Facet of chaos, to get an "no perma-protection" for rev only.

As stated above, many professions are capable of perma prot.

Too late now, Anet decided to go the stupid route and nerf the facet. When Draconic Echo is eventually nerfed, this change won't be reverted either. The sheer stupidity of Anet just baffles me at times.

[meri.9187]

Yeah, if you strike a ranger with nature magic, wilderness survival, and durability runes, they get 4s of prot from Protective Ward, 3s of prot from Durability runes, then they dodge and get 2s more, 4s from protect me, sharing boons with your pet, plus all the boon duration you have.

Yet Facet of Chaos, Spirit Boon, and Envoy of Exuberance all get big nerfs in the same patch to hit condi herald in the wrong way. Recently, I've liked their balance patches, but this is two steps back at best.

[Virdo.1540]

Now i can just go afk in pvp, keeping my Facet of Chaos active forever & annoy the crap out of everyone in the pvp lobby ,simply with the (way too loud) protection-gain sound. FOR 10 PLAYERS, EVERY 3 SECONDS! :D

Amazing patch!

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Virdo.1540 said:Now i can just go afk in pvp, keeping my Facet of Chaos active forever & annoy the kitten out of everyone in the pvp lobby ,simply with the (way too loud) protection-gain sound. FOR 10 PLAYERS, EVERY 3 SECONDS! :D

Amazing patch!

Absolutely doing this myself also works in armistice bastion. They'll probably just get rid of the sound for gaining prot rather than admit how short sighted this change was.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Anet is pulling an Enhanced Bulwark like they did years ago, but now it's with Draconic Echo. Seriously, Draconic Echo is the problem, and when they finally nerf that, I can guarantee they won't revert the nerfs to facets they butchered in the process.

Before they fix/nerf draconic echo, they will have nerfed everything about herald by like 95% and nerfed core to the ground as well in the method of trying to avoid nerfing draconic echo and when draconic echo is removed (Which it might very well be and go the way of empty vessel) they will just leave revenant where it lands and if its unplayable so be it. The class is hated clearly~

And no im not being sarcastic that is how I See them handling it, I see them ham-fisting a fix that really just deletes the viability of the class in being worth using in any meaningful way and it will sit like that for years at a time and even the new E-spec won't save the class. Because that is how they do, they have their favorites who get all the love and they have classes they hate and subtly try to remove over the course of patches. This has been going on since launch but the tables of turned and now the favorites are different classes than what they were then. ( the one dev who liked Rev, the one who created it by the name of Roy left. Ever since he left revenant has been being beaten over the head for existing.)

[Aeolus.3615]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:@draxynnic.3719@CutesySylveon.8290(snip)

So if you want to protect your herald/ventari build, you

should

be advocating for the nerf to land on Draconic Echo instead of Facet of Chaos.

U guys ment reduce the 6 seconds, to something else lower since facets apply every 3 second, that still would make protection perma wich i dont know why Anet thinks its op, while many other classes can achive that and herald will blow every energy gain if wants to mantain it( HEAVY E-management UPKEEP)...

Nerfing draconic echo or the current nerfs to revenant are a bit idiotic IMO, also its just a freaking 1 sec, people that use boon duration will still have it perma, this change make no sense.

They said on stream that revs can be really bulky to they really think its the herald protection? xD

No one proposed nerfing the player count from 10 to anything, though Anet has said on stream before that they were looking into that trait so it might get nerfed anyway. Nerfing Draconic Echo to 3 second pulse after consuming facets would have zero negative impact on your Ventari/Glint build, but reducing Facet of Chaos to 2 second pulse would have a bad impact on

every single build that uses Herald

, including yours. People in sPvP can't even get enough boon duration to cover the time between pulses because 'it's just a freaking 1 sec' but you seem to forget that puts the pulse time to

2 seconds

, so you'd need 50% boon duration to even maintain it and that's not possible in sPvP anymore.

Perma protection is actually very busted and too many classes can do it, but Anet's approach to dealing with it in Herald's case is to butcher a core part of their kit when a trait that essentially lets them instantly consume Facet of Chaos and not only give 10 people protection, but for at least 9 seconds is just the wrong approach no matter how you look at it.

HUmmmm it makes that of a huge impact in other power builds?

Note: it also impacts my build actually.Also like i said before this skill stop a player rev from gaining energy with is huge i dont see why cant be perma prot its not like we can play with perma prot forever >_> and fight players with no energy gain.

@Xca.9721 said:They want to nerf Condi Revs sustain, but instead of nerfing the Resistance uptime they nerf the protection uptime, gutting other non condi rev specs in the process

Kinda felt the same about this change.

[Domenak.7904]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"CutesySylveon.8290" said:Anet is pulling an Enhanced Bulwark like they did years ago, but now it's with Draconic Echo. Seriously, Draconic Echo is the problem, and when they finally nerf that, I can guarantee they won't revert the nerfs to facets they butchered in the process.

Before they fix/nerf draconic echo, they will have nerfed everything about herald by like 95% and nerfed core to the ground as well in the method of trying to avoid nerfing draconic echo and when draconic echo is removed (Which it might very well be and go the way of empty vessel) they will just leave revenant where it lands and if its unplayable so be it. The class is hated clearly~

And no im not being sarcastic that is how I See them handling it, I see them ham-fisting a fix that really just deletes the viability of the class in being worth using in any meaningful way and it will sit like that for years at a time and even the new E-spec won't save the class.

Because that is how they do, they have their favorites who get all the love and they have classes they hate and subtly try to remove over the course of patches.

This has been going on since launch but the tables of turned and now the favorites are different classes than what they were then. ( the one dev who liked Rev, the one who created it by the name of Roy left. Ever since he left revenant has been being beaten over the head for existing.)

"Paranoia, Paranoia, everybody's coming to get me"

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Domenak.7904 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"CutesySylveon.8290" said:Anet is pulling an Enhanced Bulwark like they did years ago, but now it's with Draconic Echo. Seriously, Draconic Echo is the problem, and when they finally nerf that, I can guarantee they won't revert the nerfs to facets they butchered in the process.

Before they fix/nerf draconic echo, they will have nerfed everything about herald by like 95% and nerfed core to the ground as well in the method of trying to avoid nerfing draconic echo and when draconic echo is removed (Which it might very well be and go the way of empty vessel) they will just leave revenant where it lands and if its unplayable so be it. The class is hated clearly~

And no im not being sarcastic that is how I See them handling it, I see them ham-fisting a fix that really just deletes the viability of the class in being worth using in any meaningful way and it will sit like that for years at a time and even the new E-spec won't save the class.

Because that is how they do, they have their favorites who get all the love and they have classes they hate and subtly try to remove over the course of patches.

This has been going on since launch but the tables of turned and now the favorites are different classes than what they were then. ( the one dev who liked Rev, the one who created it by the name of Roy left. Ever since he left revenant has been being beaten over the head for existing.)

"Paranoia, Paranoia, everybody's coming to get me"

"Anet has a history of nerfing the wrong things to achieve their stated goals and not reverting said nerfs when the real problem has been identified and addressed."

Fixed it for you.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Xca.9721 said:They want to nerf Condi Revs sustain, but instead of nerfing the Resistance uptime they nerf the protection uptime, gutting other non condi rev specs in the process

To be fair, they did nerf all of the extra sustain that condi herald was getting out of Resistance. They cut the damage reduction trait in half, and reduced the healing-while-having-Resistance trait.

Problem is, they felt the need to drop the hammer on pretty much every bit of sustain that was used in the build. Would have been better to start off with the nerfs to the Corruption traits a month or two ago, and then waited to see if the other nerfs were necessary.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Domenak.7904 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"CutesySylveon.8290" said:Anet is pulling an Enhanced Bulwark like they did years ago, but now it's with Draconic Echo. Seriously, Draconic Echo is the problem, and when they finally nerf that, I can guarantee they won't revert the nerfs to facets they butchered in the process.

Before they fix/nerf draconic echo, they will have nerfed everything about herald by like 95% and nerfed core to the ground as well in the method of trying to avoid nerfing draconic echo and when draconic echo is removed (Which it might very well be and go the way of empty vessel) they will just leave revenant where it lands and if its unplayable so be it. The class is hated clearly~

And no im not being sarcastic that is how I See them handling it, I see them ham-fisting a fix that really just deletes the viability of the class in being worth using in any meaningful way and it will sit like that for years at a time and even the new E-spec won't save the class.

Because that is how they do, they have their favorites who get all the love and they have classes they hate and subtly try to remove over the course of patches.

This has been going on since launch but the tables of turned and now the favorites are different classes than what they were then. ( the one dev who liked Rev, the one who created it by the name of Roy left. Ever since he left revenant has been being beaten over the head for existing.)

"Paranoia, Paranoia, everybody's coming to get me"

Not paranoia when its happened multiple times before. People said the same thing with sword off-hand, when it had a block and look at it now? Said the same thing about staff, and basic revenant functionality and gameplay? Look at it now. They've slowed it down and made it more about gimmicks and borked gameplay than actual skill, honestly its either we have something brainless (The current condi-bunker build) or we get something barely useable (Power rev) and then when the borked thing gets nerfed into the ground for overpreforming we don't get any compensation. Provide me with a time where they DIDN'T remove/change something for the class and fundamentally wind up harming them in the competitive scene and ill be all ears.

Nothing about rev is fun right now, nothing about this is alright. But it has no one in its corner in the office; So it doesn't matter because its not something that has immediate needs in the eyes of people who don't play it. It can work, it can be strong but each time something gets nerfed it gets harder to play and its nearing the point where its just not worth the effort. (Remember they REMOVED a dodge from mirage, when infinite horizon whom has still been pretty much left untouched was the problem. That will happen here as well.)

[Aeolus.3615]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Xca.9721 said:They want to nerf Condi Revs sustain, but instead of nerfing the Resistance uptime they nerf the protection uptime, gutting other non condi rev specs in the process

To be fair, they did nerf all of the extra sustain that condi herald was getting out of Resistance. They cut the damage reduction trait in half, and reduced the healing-while-having-Resistance trait.

Problem is, they felt the need to drop the hammer on pretty much

every

bit of sustain that was used in the build. Would have been better to start off with the nerfs to the Corruption traits a month or two ago, and then waited to see if the other nerfs were necessary.

They even touched condi renegaden elite, drop renegade heal on top its elite while mashing condi and damag for sustain while jalis upkeep trait heals and rune of torment also heals, runing arround inside stack lots of torment and burn and damage and targets would die cause they would never stop moving ...xD