Grenade kit's condi are broken

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kodama.6453oh and btw blade burst from laser disk instantly throws 2 blades that crit for ~4k to light targetsIn fact blade burst on high heat hits as hard as level 3 eviscerate from warrior, the only difference is that it ALSO bleeds ( about 800 dmg total ), is ranged and has no cast time. in holo mode with proper might you can expect it to average about 6k dmg on light targets easy. balanced boi

[Kodama.6453]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Kodama.6453oh and btw blade burst from laser disk instantly throws 2 blades that crit for ~4k to light targetsIn fact blade burst on high heat hits as hard as level 3 eviscerate from warrior, the only difference is that it ALSO bleeds ( about 800 dmg total ), is ranged and has no cast time. in holo mode with proper might you can expect it to average about 6k dmg on light targets easy. balanced boi

Wait, why does it throw 2 blades? Blade burst throws 1 blade at every enemy in range, 5 targets maximum.Baseline that skill hits with 0.8 power coefficient, above 50 heat you get a 25% damage increase, upping it to a 1,0 power coefficient.Which is lower than eviscerate, even a level 1 one which has 1,333 power coefficient, going up to 2,0 at level 3.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Kodama.6453oh and btw blade burst from laser disk instantly throws 2 blades that crit for ~4k to light targetsIn fact blade burst on high heat hits as hard as level 3 eviscerate from warrior, the only difference is that it ALSO bleeds ( about 800 dmg total ), is ranged and has no cast time. in holo mode with proper might you can expect it to average about 6k dmg on light targets easy. balanced boi

Wait, why does it throw 2 blades? Blade burst throws 1 blade at every enemy in range, 5 targets maximum.Baseline that skill hits with 0.8 power coefficient, above 50 heat you get a 25% damage increase, upping it to a 1,0 power coefficient.Which is lower than eviscerate, even a level 1 one which has 1,333 power coefficient, going up to 2,0 at level 3.

ah my bad, I stood in a way that made blades thrown hit the same target, so its half eviscerate then... exept if you could walk in someones model in teamfight and throw 5 at them for instant 5.0 coof dmg... interesting wonder how it works exactly

EDITtested it on the golem. if you walk into someones model all blades will hit that target, so you can in fact walk into someone during teamfight to instantly hit them with all 5 bladescant wait for the trolling to begin, 0 might blade crits for 1,6k I can actually see this shit 1shoting people now lol

[Shiyo.3578]

Yeah laser disc is going to get nerfed, I just did 13k damage with it to a ranger.

[Leonidrex.5649]

laser disc + elixir S is fun, reminds me of old sunfire from league

[Kodama.6453]

@Leonidrex.5649I doubt that Anet will do anything against that.

Laser disk is not used by anyone, so I don't think that they really consider it in need of a nerf right now.And blade burst might be able to hit the same target with multiple blades, but this is really situational. You have to walk in the enemy's hit box while a teamfight is going on with multiple enemies around so you can hit more than 1 blade against that one target.

Sounds like something happening once in a blue moon to me.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kodama.6453 said:@Leonidrex.5649I doubt that Anet will do anything against that.

Laser disk is not used by anyone, so I don't think that they really consider it in need of a nerf right now.And blade burst might be able to hit the same target with multiple blades, but this is really situational. You have to walk in the enemy's hit box while a teamfight is going on with multiple enemies around so you can hit more than 1 blade against that one target.

Sounds like something happening once in a blue moon to me.

unless you fight a mesmer and 1shot him due to him having audacity to create clones, and its not even that. Landing 2 blades is already broken, 1 blade is strong by itself.If you practice with it I can see it being very easy to land 2-3 blades in fights reliably.And skill not being used right now is no excuse for it to be broken.

[Kodama.6453]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:@Leonidrex.5649I doubt that Anet will do anything against that.

Laser disk is not used by anyone, so I don't think that they really consider it in need of a nerf right now.And blade burst might be able to hit the same target with multiple blades, but this is

really

situational. You have to walk in the enemy's hit box while a teamfight is going on with multiple enemies around so you can hit more than 1 blade against that one target.

Sounds like something happening once in a blue moon to me.

unless you fight a mesmer and 1shot him due to him having audacity to create clones, and its not even that. Landing 2 blades is already broken, 1 blade is strong by itself.If you practice with it I can see it being very easy to land 2-3 blades in fights reliably.And skill not being used right now is no excuse for it to be broken.

How do they get the statistics of it being broken if no one is using it?Without data of the skills performance on the field, they can't conclude that the skill is overpowered, don't you agree?

Can see what you say about mesmer, tho. That skill might potentially be stronger against summon type classes.Still don't know how reliable you would be able to hit an enemy by directly walking into their model, in GW2 you are always moving so that part might still become tricky.If they have to change it, then I hope they actually put the work in it and try to code it in a way that you can't get hit by more than 1 blade instead of nerfing the damage to the ground.

[Dreams.3128]

You guys speaking about one shots when most classes are running the glassiest amulets known to man, lmao. That literally makes zero sense. Of course someone is going to drop with a burst amulet equipped like..what???

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:You guys speaking about one shots when most classes are running the glassiest amulets known to man, lmao. That literally makes zero sense. Of course someone is going to drop with a burst amulet equipped like..what???

should a glass players get killed by 1 ability that has 0 cast time just since they didnt go bunker? should I lose 75% of my hp to a healing skill just because im not bunker?you dont have to give me an answer, im playing different games now, the ones where you dont get 1shot by healing skills, but feel free to pretend that everything is fine here.

[Dreams.3128]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:You guys speaking about one shots when most classes are running the glassiest amulets known to man, lmao. That literally makes zero sense. Of course someone is going to drop with a burst amulet equipped like..what???

should a glass players get killed by 1 ability that has 0 cast time just since they didnt go bunker? should I lose 75% of my hp to a healing skill just because im not bunker?you dont have to give me an answer, im playing different games now, the ones where you dont get 1shot by healing skills, but feel free to pretend that everything is fine here.

Did I say it was okay? No. So fix your statement. Second of all, I mentioned this because you can't expect people to take you seriously saying you one shotted someone on the glassiest amulets. Literally zerk ele can die to ANYTHING that crits for more than 11k. Same with guard, thief, and most of the low health classes. So if you want to actually have people take your statements into considerations then at least show a one shot on something dumb like Sage or Paladins.

But, you do you , I could care less about the pvp or what you play now. I was just pointing that little detail out.

[Kuma.1503]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Most of the issues with holosmith are due to a core traitline, actually.

Then nerf the sustain and mobility holosmith elite spec offers.

Holosmith is supposed to be very high damage glass cannon.

Core engineer needs to sacrifice sustain for might generation and high damage. Holosmith has to do much less trade offs and that is

the problem

and has lead to unwise "balance" decisions in past as well. Instead of addressing the holosmith, they are constantly just nerf hammering core engineer to the ground.

If you nerf holosmiths sustain and mobility you're creating another elementalist. This game doesn't need every class to be in the gutter, no thanks.

Flashbang and explosive entrance are the issue, and perhaps high capacity unit, but NOTHING else is wrong with holo.

lots of things are wrong with holo.lesser barrage hits like old normal barrage every 20s with delay, so you can combine it with other skills to 1shot from stealthlaser disk alone can hit for ~25k dmg, it creates aoe near holo for 9s where if you come close you will kitten dieIt deals so much kitten damage that you can let warrior stun you and combo you and he will take about as much damage as you do from this passive aoe alone.just 2 examples, I bet there is plenty of kitten that people didnt even investigate since nades with 25might make it so that you dont even have to bother being clever and just hit people through walls for 5k+ damage

All of those issues have a common cause. You even mentioned it yourself. Holo shouldn't be able to stack 17 might passively, and 25 might with a single button press.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kuma.1503 I was hitting lights edge on the golem for 1,6k while at 0 might and 0 heat if it crits.Ofc if every overpowered thing gets removed engi will be ass, every class needs something broken to be viable. but saying that there just 1 thing wrong with holo is not the case.you have potential 30k aoe dmg skill, mantra on pain but on steroids, nades that burst people through walls, and floor, from range and melee.EE that turns anything into a nuke, perma 20+might, insane healing, shit ton of passive blinds from flashbang.

[Kuma.1503]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Kuma.1503" I was hitting lights edge on the golem for 1,6k while at 0 might and 0 heat if it crits.Ofc if every overpowered thing gets removed engi will be kitten, every class needs something broken to be viable. but saying that there just 1 thing wrong with holo is not the case.you have potential 30k aoe dmg skill, mantra on pain but on steroids, nades that burst people through walls, and floor, from range and melee.EE that turns anything into a nuke, perma 20+might, insane healing, kitten ton of passive blinds from flashbang.

1.6k crit Zerker amulet and divinity rune?

I did a few tests with other classes with the same setup to get a feel for what a "weak hit" should look like on a power build. All tests done with 0 might/vuln on medium golem.

Lightning rod ele crits for ~1.1k (x2) with lightning whip + 200 damage on attunement swap.Merged Soulbeast (Smokescale) Crits for 1.6k per longbow autoGS Guard crits for 1.2k on the first two GS swings. 1.8k on the final swing.

From what I can gather. A 1.6k light's edge crit is hitting as hard as your average auto attack from a power build. Mind you, that's without factoring in Enhanced capacity storage unit and Lazor's edge, but these are the very things I'm advocating nerfs for. Holo's base damage is in line, but with high might stacks and modifiers it hits like a truck.

[Shiyo.3578]

The thing you have to remember about holo is that without high burst it's completely helpless and turns into dps ele 2.0. The only reason I can currently survive power revs and literally any thief build including 0 traits spent is by counter pressuring them off me as I spam jump up boxes. Too many nerfs to holo will just made it as unfun and useless as dps ele - the game doesn't need more eles.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

I have no idea but I insist that flame-thrower is still better https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flamethrower

[Smoosh.2718]

The thing that gripes me with the nade kid is one nade in particular in combination with Flashbang Poison Grenade.

Up to 9 stacks of poison, daze, blind, 3% vulnerability and unblockable.Remove the unblockable and lower the poison stacks. (i'd rather poison went back to how it was in all honesty, since it does 2 things it should not stack.)

(This ones going to annoy the engi lot)Prevent grenades from being thrown behind the character while running away.The current common sight is seeing an engineer low health running away lobbing grenades behind them then healing to full and running back in. Classes should not be able to fire behind their character (I mean seriously do you have eyes in the back of your head? You don't see Rangers shooting backwards)

(following the CC no damage rule)Engineer Shield 4This skill knockbacks and does more damage than the 0.01 co that all hard CC skills got.

[Shiyo.3578]

Do not remove the unblockable, sitting there with zero options to counterplay someone blocking is unfun and removes depth from the game.

Throwing grenades behind you as you kite is actually good and more ranged(casters!) should be able to do this. Thief and power rev dominate squishier classes such as ele and mesmer too much that it completely removes them from playing DPS specs in the meta. It's really absurd and I don't know why more people don't talk about this. Thief is the biggest meta defining class.

[viquing.8254]

Yeah like mantra of distraction who can rupt behind and is a hudge part of defensive abilities. Ho wait....

[Teb.6980]

Hello, I'm a main holo, and I'm heartbroken

ANET PLS READ THESE SUGGESTIONS

-Delete or otherwise nerf flashbang to the ground (that daze with a potential 8k damage (from grenade barrage, 6k & explosive entrance, 2k) is too much and against the design philosophy)-Consider the AMOUNT OF EXPLOSIONS that each grenade attack does. Not to mention grenade barrage.Compare a ranged explosives holo without grenades vs. dumbarrage [crystal config: zephyr] holo or scrapper (even stronger lol) :
They can easily spam grenades and get an Explosive Temper 10stack in 2-3 attacks, one second and a half. This is not balanced.Ranged explosives holo will get those stacks after 2 full auto attack chains with corona burst, about 6-7 seconds, which is a rarity given the lack of stabi on holo anyways.

In other words, crystal config: storm will get 4 explosive temper stacks from a full auto attack chain of 3, whilst retardobarrage (scrapper or holo or core) will achieve 10 in the same time.

I ask anet to look at the AMOUNT of grenades.They stack too much vulnerability and Explosive Temper stacks to be balanced. You must find a way to nerf grenades without killing all of the explosives traitline (mortar kit, ranged holo [crystal config: storm]), or land mine engis.

Of course, the condi damage is also kitten OP, and poison grenades are unblockable.

Imagine getting away with having no skill.

Thanks for not blaming holos. It's definitely the daze on explosive entrance and grenade kit itself.

To the designers at anet: it has more RP value btw if you make grenades throw 1 instead of 3 grenades while keeping the damage intact. Turn down the condi damage a little notch and it will still be the dps kit we all know and love to use in PvE but hate to be "outclassed" with in PvP. (it's not outclass. It's a stat check. I've seen inferior players get away with grenades just becase they're too kitten strong.)ty all

Engi main here with explosives and crystal config: storm. Not OP, it's a rather weak spec but I love the playstyle.

Until they're nerfed, grenades are cheating