Death's Judgment broken in WvW by not requiring the Deadeye to mark its actual target

Hana.8143 · October 23, 2017

And when the deadeye will only do 20k on marked targets, people will still complain because it can one shot everything it marks.

Guess it’s time to make a zerker deadeye and one shot people to feed the rage.

Sobx.1758 · October 23, 2017

@dawsm.5398 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
What you said is that creating threads against something is ok, while "defending it" is "amusing". But stay in your own world and pretend that's something normal and that it's not something that contradicts itself.

My amusement doesn't automatically invalidate people defending something, and I never said people should or shouldn't start threads, but you're doing a good job seeing what you want and taking things personally.

Ah yes, the sweet backpedalling... :DThe context of your "amusement expressing post" was quite clear, no need to make up random excuses now, this is not elementary school, buddy.

@Sobx.1758 said:
Uh, oh, you do indeed "delight in this assumption"... except that I've never said YOU don't understand how malice/DJ works, what I wrote was LITERALLY:"if you actually read through the latest threads about it, you'll notice that it's a fact and people don't understand how and why it works the way it does."

And my first post wasn't directed at -you- either, but it didn't stop you from behaving as if it was. In fact, looking back through this thread, you seem to have an issue with several people posting and not just me.

Do you understand how context works? I answered to something you said -it didn't really need to be directed at me. You answered to something I said that was CLEARLY (as I quoted btw) directed at some of the people in other threads and you took it as "me implying something you do", which is -again- CLEARLY wrong. I never said you answering to me is wrong in any way, because that's not how forum works, buddy.At this point you probably understood your mistake, but who would expect you to admit anything, better tell me "your post wasnt directed at me" lmao.

@Sobx.1758 said:
Do you even understand what you read before you decide to answer to it? Seriously, next time try to focus less on the condecending "delighting" and "amusement" and instead simply understand what you read, buddy. :)

Laughs

Pot, kettle, and black; as many things as you've basically claimed I said, that I actually didn't, I don't think you should be telling others to work on reading comprehension. You may consider this a response to your last sentence as well, for brevity's sake.

"many things"? What "many things"? It was one thing that you CLEARLY said and now you're just backpedalling and claiming I said multiple false things about you, which is simply a lie. I'd like to say "nice try", but honestly... it was just "a bad attempt" at saving yourself at best.But again you don't make much sense here.

@Sobx.1758 said:
And I told you why they have the problem with it -it's because they don't understand the mechanic. And, on that point, I'm pretty sure I got it right.

Nope, I'm pretty sure there are people who've tried deadeye that have an issue with how the mechanic works. Heck, I'm one of those people who knows exactly what you can do with it on a power build and considers it wonky. And, no, deadeyes being easy targets, or the attack being easy to dodge, doesn't change the questionable ability to charge up a combat oriented mechanic while not being in combat. But, you' don't seem to have any intention of thinking about this otherwise.

The thing is that attack "being easy to dodge" changes A LOT in a game with such easy access to dodging/blocking/reflecting.

Now, to really lay it out for you, I'd wager that what you didn't like was my first post basically chiding a certain subset of the "defending" population. That subset being players who treat the Deadeye's Mark / Malice / DJ dynamic as an easy-mode button in regards to building Malice without actually engaging in combat at all. Naturally, many in that subset want to make as much noise as they can so they don't lose that easy-mode button. People who want to defend the Malice / DJ mechanics as they are, without taking into account that no other profession in the game can so benefit in combat by highlighting a non-combat oriented mob, are just being upset that someone might take their new shiny thing. However, perhaps that shiny new thing needs to be adjusted. But, my amusement at people clamoring over said shiny thing won't make it be adjusted, and the clamoring itself won't keep it from being adjusted; it is ultimately up to Anet.

There's nothing to "wager on", I think my post was quite clear what I liked or rather disliked about your condecending post. And it was exactly that -you came otu as a hypocrite that things that people complaining about 'stuff' are fine and free to continue, meanwhile people on the other side on the argument are "amusing". We all know the reason why you think they're "amusing", no need to keep backpedalling on your own words now to try and wiggle your way out of what you wrote.

You seem too close to the matter, and too worried about it being changed, to view it objectively. Hence, your every post in this thread basically being to abrasively go at people who question the current design's fairness; even the posters who haven't been as amused as me.

Ah yeah, I'm so "close to the matter" on this one and "too worried about it being changed to view it objectively"! But somehow... you're not? Well, then what exactly makes ME so subjective, but leaves you objective? You understand that I can write exactly same thing about that?Hey, you failed to dodge/block/reflect an EASY TO SEE AND REACT TO ability, so you came to cry (or more like "support people that cry") on the boards about the skill. You're too close to the matter and reacted impulsively based on your recent ingame failure and that's why you can't see this case objectively. So... what now? Is anyone here really "objective"? Or only people that share YOUR OPINION can earn this 'title' and right to express what they think?I think we both know the answer here. ;)

Also I'm not "too close to be objective", because I DID play DE, but as I already wrote on multiple occasions I changed back to DD because:1) It's more enjoyable for me than DE (even though I really wanted to enjoy the -kind of- rifle hitman playstyle)2) DD is simply a stronger spec. Relying mostly on one easly dodgable skill for a strong burst dmg is just bad.And yes, I'd easly pick to face DE than DD. Because DE is easier to kill.

But, I'm done now, you can respond all you wish without reprisal from me. I've no intention of carrying on with you further, it's just not worth it. ;)

Of course you're done. You have nothing to say other than trying to -hopelessly- twist your own words to get out of what you wrote :)hf o/

Solori.6025 · October 23, 2017

@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

Shadowcat.2680 · October 23, 2017

@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

Strider Pj.2193 · October 23, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

That is true. But the Necro gets the same life force from the ambient (white name not yellow) as it does from killing a yellow, or hostile creature. Is that ok?

Sobx.1758 · October 23, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

kash.9213 · October 23, 2017

What server matchups are you guys playing with all of these ninja full zerk DE's running around who aren't free bags somehow?

Shadowcat.2680 · October 24, 2017

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Sobx.1758 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

Shadowcat.2680 · October 24, 2017

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

Solori.6025 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

..life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not fullGiving you a combat advantage.

PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

Sobx.1758 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

Malice also has a cap, wtf are you even talking about now?

Shadowcat.2680 · October 24, 2017

@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

..life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not fullGiving you a combat advantage.

PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

Solori.6025 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

..life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not fullGiving you a combat advantage.

PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

Oh you're right...A necro's resource is actually much worse..It's not like you canAoE Boon stripload enemies with condiesgrant barrier ( LARGE barriers) to teammatesconvert condies on teammates andcreate area denial with shades

Necro's are much worse off,

/s

Seriously though, a necro in WvW is one of the meta classes that can, with enough of them, determine the flow of a zerg fight or even a roaming fight, same as warrior with it's WoD.Thief has an over performing skill, sure, make that argument, its valid.A lot of skills are over performing, burst condi necro's are one of them (theirs a reason necro's were one of the first nerfed)

A Necro's resource has much more of an impact on the whole of WvW be it roaming or zerging, and pretending that it isn't is silly.

babazhook.6805 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

Malice is reset at 25 seconds. It goes back to zero no matter how close the DE stays to his mark.

Malice resets to zero if the mark is killed. If a DE marks an ambient and then does not attack it so as not to kill it and reset malice it will take 21 seconds to get full Malice stacks if traited in Malificient 7. If not traited in this spec it will take 20 seconds to get 5 stacks. In fact if a player so worried that a DE is marking an ambient and then doing nothing for 21 seconds so as to build stacks then go KILL that ambient and that DE's malice goes back to zero.

This gives the thief all of either 4 or 5 seconds of full stacked malice. While that thief was "waiting for malice to build" the player he intends to ultimately attack does not have to sit around twiddling his thumbs waiting on the thief. You do little more then Cherry pick here making statements that "all a thief has to do is stay within 1500 units of its mark" without once acknowledging the TIME needed to get full malice stacks using this method and the fact that the mark ENDS at 25 seconds and has to restart.

Malice is NOT endless.

Shadowcat.2680 · October 24, 2017

@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

..life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not fullGiving you a combat advantage.

PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

Oh you're right...A necro's resource is actually much worse..It's not like you canAoE Boon stripload enemies with condiesgrant barrier ( LARGE barriers) to teammatesconvert condies on teammates andcreate area denial with shades

Necro's are much worse off,

/s

Seriously though, a necro in WvW is one of the meta classes that can, with enough of them, determine the flow of a zerg fight or even a roaming fight, same as warrior with it's WoD.

Thief has an over performing skill, sure, make that argument, its valid.

A lot of skills are over performing, burst condi necro's are one of them (theirs a reason necro's were one of the first nerfed)

A Necro's resource has much more of an impact on the whole of WvW be it roaming or zerging, and pretending that it isn't is silly.

That is my exact point. I don't know of another profession with a one-shot kill skill. And it is a one-shot kill skill when a deadeye is able to start a fight with a 20k+ DJ as the first move it makes. The DJ can be 20k+ as the deadeye's opening move because it operates independently of the deadeye's marked target. The skill is poorly designed for WvW.

DemonSeed.3528 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

If a deadeye is using deadly arts it will damage/aggro the creature/npc it is marking.

Solori.6025 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

..life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not fullGiving you a combat advantage.

PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

Oh you're right...A necro's resource is actually much worse..It's not like you canAoE Boon stripload enemies with condiesgrant barrier ( LARGE barriers) to teammatesconvert condies on teammates andcreate area denial with shades

Necro's are much worse off,

/s

Seriously though, a necro in WvW is one of the meta classes that can, with enough of them, determine the flow of a zerg fight or even a roaming fight, same as warrior with it's WoD.

Thief has an over performing skill, sure, make that argument, its valid.

A lot of skills are over performing, burst condi necro's are one of them (theirs a reason necro's were one of the first nerfed)

A Necro's resource has much more of an impact on the whole of WvW be it roaming or zerging, and pretending that it isn't is silly.

That is my exact point. I don't know of another profession with a one-shot kill skill. And it is a one-shot kill skill when a deadeye is able to start a fight with a 20k+ DJ as the first move it makes. The DJ can be 20k+ as the deadeye's opening move because it operates independently of the deadeye's marked target. The skill is poorly designed for WvW.

That wasn't what you were discussing from the original response.Again if you want to make the argument of overperformance do it, but claiming using ambient creatures are broken for one class and not the other?You haven't listed one viable reason why necro is less valuable than thief, and your examples of the thief resource have been completely and utterly false.Why is necro OK when it builds it's class resource, but it is not OK for others. Skills aside.When literally both ( actually any class) can abuse pve mobs or get resources pre combat from abusing ambient creatures. Why is Necro exclusive for being the exception?That's what you are explaining, and discussing.

Shadowcat.2680 · October 24, 2017

@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

..life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not fullGiving you a combat advantage.

PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

Oh you're right...A necro's resource is actually much worse..It's not like you canAoE Boon stripload enemies with condiesgrant barrier ( LARGE barriers) to teammatesconvert condies on teammates andcreate area denial with shades

Necro's are much worse off,

/s

Seriously though, a necro in WvW is one of the meta classes that can, with enough of them, determine the flow of a zerg fight or even a roaming fight, same as warrior with it's WoD.

Thief has an over performing skill, sure, make that argument, its valid.

A lot of skills are over performing, burst condi necro's are one of them (theirs a reason necro's were one of the first nerfed)

A Necro's resource has much more of an impact on the whole of WvW be it roaming or zerging, and pretending that it isn't is silly.

That is my exact point. I don't know of another profession with a one-shot kill skill. And it is a one-shot kill skill when a deadeye is able to start a fight with a 20k+ DJ as the first move it makes. The DJ can be 20k+ as the deadeye's opening move because it operates independently of the deadeye's marked target. The skill is poorly designed for WvW.

That wasn't what you were discussing from the original response.Again if you want to make the argument of overperformance do it, but claiming using ambient creatures are broken for one class and not the other?You haven't listed one viable reason why necro is less valuable than thief, and your examples of the thief resource have been completely and utterly false.Why is necro OK when it builds it's class resource, but it is not OK for others. Skills aside.When literally both ( actually any class) can abuse pve mobs or get resources pre combat from abusing ambient creatures. Why is Necro exclusive for being the exception?That's what you are explaining, and discussing.

Said deadeye uses the resource gained to one-shot players with a 20k-30k opening shot. It is broken for a deadeye to be able to gain that resource off any target within 1500 units all without even aggroing the target (thus the target does not die and continues to provide malice stacks). If the malice resets before the deadeye can make his shot, all it has to do is mark the target again.

No, it's not practical in a fight. But it is a way for a deadeye to start a fight with full stacks of malice, malice that is useful mostly for DJ alone.

There is no reasonable argument for any other profession's resource being comparable. No other profession can use their resource to wipe out an enemy's entire health pool with a single skill.

Graeaw.6329 · October 24, 2017

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Solori.6025 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

..life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not fullGiving you a combat advantage.

PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

Oh you're right...A necro's resource is actually much worse..It's not like you canAoE Boon stripload enemies with condiesgrant barrier ( LARGE barriers) to teammatesconvert condies on teammates andcreate area denial with shades

Necro's are much worse off,

/s

Seriously though, a necro in WvW is one of the meta classes that can, with enough of them, determine the flow of a zerg fight or even a roaming fight, same as warrior with it's WoD.

Thief has an over performing skill, sure, make that argument, its valid.

A lot of skills are over performing, burst condi necro's are one of them (theirs a reason necro's were one of the first nerfed)

A Necro's resource has much more of an impact on the whole of WvW be it roaming or zerging, and pretending that it isn't is silly.

That is my exact point. I don't know of another profession with a one-shot kill skill. And it is a one-shot kill skill when a deadeye is able to start a fight with a 20k+ DJ as the first move it makes. The DJ can be 20k+ as the deadeye's opening move because it operates independently of the deadeye's marked target. The skill is poorly designed for WvW.

That wasn't what you were discussing from the original response.Again if you want to make the argument of overperformance do it, but claiming using ambient creatures are broken for one class and not the other?You haven't listed one viable reason why necro is less valuable than thief, and your examples of the thief resource have been completely and utterly false.Why is necro OK when it builds it's class resource, but it is not OK for others. Skills aside.When literally both ( actually any class) can abuse pve mobs or get resources pre combat from abusing ambient creatures. Why is Necro exclusive for being the exception?That's what you are explaining, and discussing.

There is no reasonable argument for any other profession's resource being comparable. No other profession can use their resource to wipe out an enemy's entire health pool with a single skill.

Tell that to all the invisible Coalesce of Ruins that hit me for my entire health pool. Mesmer shatters also.

Sobx.1758 · October 24, 2017