Death's Judgment broken in WvW by not requiring the Deadeye to mark its actual target

[dawsm.5398]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@dawsm.5398 said:If every other damage -enhancing action involving mobs pulls said mob into combat, why can a Dead Eye just camp a mob, be it white, yellow, or red, and never be in combat? Frankly, since every other use of ambient creatures is a one-shot-and-it's-dead usage, with the exception of movement skills...(which I don't care about because there are movement skills that are simply ground targeted as well) I don't think they should even be a source for Malice. And, if a Dead Eye targets a non-one-shotable mob, why isn't it AND the Dead Eye dragged into combat?

I think it's the whole charging up combat advantages while not in combat and humping stealth that leaves people somewhat annoyed; especially when squishy, non-combat creatures can be used to do it.

if deadly arts is taken it will

I will admit that I didn't know this, as I don't usually play around with condi builds. I'm assuming you mean that something about that trait line aggros things when Deadeye's Mark is used.

I haven't read -every- thread on this, and I have never played condi thief of any sort, so you've taught me something. It does seem odd that only certain builds should be included in the aggro'ing fun.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@dawsm.5398 said:Amusing how many folks come out to defend the Malice mechanics and claim people don't understand how it works, when anyone with a minimum of common sense should understand why many have a problem with how it currently stands.

It's amusing that people who most probably never touched the spec are free to spread their "one and only valid opinion on the matter" and decide what should or shouldn't be nerfed, but somehow "defending" it is... "amusing" for you?Don't be a hypocrite.

There are easy ways to counter this skill, which already was explained on multiple occasions, but the only answers to that so far is anything along the lines of "WELL I THINK NOT" or "BUT I DON'T WANT TO FOCUS ON PVP IN WvW". Maybe you should find this little fact "amusing" and focus on calling out those people?No? Well, so I guess someone else will, even if you won't like it. (or like it to the point of being "amusing", whatever suits you)

E: ah and btw, it's not "claiming people don't understand how it works" -if you actually read through the latest threads about it, you'll notice that it's a fact and people don't understand how and why it works the way it does. And then they come on the boards and claim "it's bugged". Ahh... isn't THIS amusing? :D

Gee, someone is a little touchy on this subject. Someone also needs to look up hypocrite, as I've yet to contradict myself. But, I do delight in the assumption that I have zero knowledge at all of the Malice / DJ mechanics; your knowing what I know, and what builds I've tried out is an awesome ability! I also never personally called the mechanic a bug, but oh well.

What I did do, however, was point out why many people have a problem with the mechanic as it stands. And, on that point, I'm pretty sure I got it right.

No worries, still amused at how up in arms some people are over this. ;)

[Sylvyn.4750]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Considering the mark builds up malice, which is usable on other weapon sets, how would you deal with that?

Malice isn't only benefiting one skill.

Malice increases damage dealt to the deadeye's marked target regardless of the weapon set used. It doesn't increase the deadeye's damage against all targets with all weapons so long as they have a marked target nearby. From the wiki: "Malice is a stacking effect exclusive to the Deadeye elite specialization of the Thief. It increases damage the Deadeye deals

to the marked target

."

You are quoting Wiki which in this case has been shown to be inaccurate. Look at the actual tooltip / skill description in game.

Quoted the wiki for the sake of the ease of copy and paste. The tooltip in game also specifies that malice increases a deadeye's damage to its marked target. Nowhere does it say that malice increases the deadeye's damage against all targets.

Mark Causes the Malice Generated to cause more damage to the Marked Target, that is an effect of Mark not Malice.

Malice is generated on the Thief.

Death's Judgement doesn’t care about Marked Target and only cares about how many stacks of Malice the Thief has accumulated.

Remember these are two separate skills, each have two separate affects each use a common thing called Malice to augment the two skills.

They are working as intended.

A deadeye marking ambient mobs to generate malice and then using that malice for a fully charged death's judgment against a player is not those two mechanics working as intended. If a deadeye was meant to be able to build up malice using mobs, then the malice stacks would be more of a permanent mechanic.

Show where it’s not intended, normally when something isn’t intended Anet is quick to state so look at Scourge for example, so please show us where they have said as such, since any skill in game can be used on any neutral/enemy NPC/Ambient why would Mark not be the same? so please show us how or where it’s been acknowledged as not being intended, I will wait.

If you can't Rally off said creatures, why should they cause your death? :)

[bq pd.2148]

@Sylvyn.4750 said:If you can't Rally off said creatures, why should they cause your death? :)

the mark on some random creature wont cause your death, DJ might.as i am often in enemy keeps playing with their scouts, is it OK if i mark the guards in there and shoot at the players? cause they wont rally from those.

[Solori.6025]

@Sylvyn.4750 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Considering the mark builds up malice, which is usable on other weapon sets, how would you deal with that?

Malice isn't only benefiting one skill.

Malice increases damage dealt to the deadeye's marked target regardless of the weapon set used. It doesn't increase the deadeye's damage against all targets with all weapons so long as they have a marked target nearby. From the wiki: "Malice is a stacking effect exclusive to the Deadeye elite specialization of the Thief. It increases damage the Deadeye deals

to the marked target

."

You are quoting Wiki which in this case has been shown to be inaccurate. Look at the actual tooltip / skill description in game.

Quoted the wiki for the sake of the ease of copy and paste. The tooltip in game also specifies that malice increases a deadeye's damage to its marked target. Nowhere does it say that malice increases the deadeye's damage against all targets.

Mark Causes the Malice Generated to cause more damage to the Marked Target, that is an effect of Mark not Malice.

Malice is generated on the Thief.

Death's Judgement doesn’t care about Marked Target and only cares about how many stacks of Malice the Thief has accumulated.

Remember these are two separate skills, each have two separate affects each use a common thing called Malice to augment the two skills.

They are working as intended.

A deadeye marking ambient mobs to generate malice and then using that malice for a fully charged death's judgment against a player is not those two mechanics working as intended. If a deadeye was meant to be able to build up malice using mobs, then the malice stacks would be more of a permanent mechanic.

Show where it’s not intended, normally when something isn’t intended Anet is quick to state so look at Scourge for example, so please show us where they have said as such, since any skill in game can be used on any neutral/enemy NPC/Ambient why would Mark not be the same? so please show us how or where it’s been acknowledged as not being intended, I will wait.

If you can't Rally off said creatures, why should they cause your death? :)

Easier solution,

REMOVE ALL random PVE FROM WVWambient creatures,random raptors, krait, etc.

This way no one will be able to use PvE mobs to teleport to, or gain any other class resource ( or sigil buffs) that requires the death of something ,and thieves wont be able to generate malice from it.

Do for one, do for all.

[snh.7091]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Sylvyn.4750 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Considering the mark builds up malice, which is usable on other weapon sets, how would you deal with that?

Malice isn't only benefiting one skill.

Malice increases damage dealt to the deadeye's marked target regardless of the weapon set used. It doesn't increase the deadeye's damage against all targets with all weapons so long as they have a marked target nearby. From the wiki: "Malice is a stacking effect exclusive to the Deadeye elite specialization of the Thief. It increases damage the Deadeye deals

to the marked target

."

You are quoting Wiki which in this case has been shown to be inaccurate. Look at the actual tooltip / skill description in game.

Quoted the wiki for the sake of the ease of copy and paste. The tooltip in game also specifies that malice increases a deadeye's damage to its marked target. Nowhere does it say that malice increases the deadeye's damage against all targets.

Mark Causes the Malice Generated to cause more damage to the Marked Target, that is an effect of Mark not Malice.

Malice is generated on the Thief.

Death's Judgement doesn’t care about Marked Target and only cares about how many stacks of Malice the Thief has accumulated.

Remember these are two separate skills, each have two separate affects each use a common thing called Malice to augment the two skills.

They are working as intended.

A deadeye marking ambient mobs to generate malice and then using that malice for a fully charged death's judgment against a player is not those two mechanics working as intended. If a deadeye was meant to be able to build up malice using mobs, then the malice stacks would be more of a permanent mechanic.

Show where it’s not intended, normally when something isn’t intended Anet is quick to state so look at Scourge for example, so please show us where they have said as such, since any skill in game can be used on any neutral/enemy NPC/Ambient why would Mark not be the same? so please show us how or where it’s been acknowledged as not being intended, I will wait.

If you can't Rally off said creatures, why should they cause your death? :)

Easier solution,

REMOVE ALL

random

PVE FROM WVWambient creatures,random raptors, krait, etc.

This way no one will be able to use PvE mobs to teleport to, or gain any other class resource ( or sigil buffs) that requires the death of something ,and thieves wont be able to generate malice from it.

Do for one, do for all.

Exactly. Why focus only on one class when most benefit from ambience in one way or another. It's easy to judge because one's biased. What often people lack is empathy, but they don't care. Whatever suits them is best.

[miriforst.1290]

It should be fixed. Because its better that a bug gets fixed than for balance to take place taking these bugs into account. Imagine if the range of magnet pull got halved or the cooldown doubled because it sometimes pull people into the stratosphere on uneven terrain resulting in a 1 h.k.o. (this needs to be fixed btw). Deadeye is fine and the most balanced out of the new elite specs, providing a new playstyle without overshadowing previous options entirely. But this bug is working against the core concept of building stacks and then executing the target when the time is right.

Playing with and against a deadeye is fun otherwise. Im not sure i can say that about much in this game. And it would be a shame if they would get nerfed based on a bug.

[Sobx.1758]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@dawsm.5398 said:Amusing how many folks come out to defend the Malice mechanics and claim people don't understand how it works, when anyone with a minimum of common sense should understand why many have a problem with how it currently stands.

It's amusing that people who most probably never touched the spec are free to spread their "one and only valid opinion on the matter" and decide what should or shouldn't be nerfed, but somehow "defending" it is... "amusing" for you?Don't be a hypocrite.

There are easy ways to counter this skill, which already was explained on multiple occasions, but the only answers to that so far is anything along the lines of "WELL I THINK NOT" or "BUT I DON'T WANT TO FOCUS ON PVP IN WvW". Maybe you should find this little fact "amusing" and focus on calling out those people?No? Well, so I guess someone else will, even if you won't like it. (or like it to the point of being "amusing", whatever suits you)

E: ah and btw, it's not "claiming people don't understand how it works" -if you actually read through the latest threads about it, you'll notice that it's a fact and people don't understand how and why it works the way it does. And then they come on the boards and claim "it's bugged". Ahh... isn't THIS amusing? :D

Gee, someone is a little touchy on this subject. Someone also needs to look up hypocrite, as I've yet to contradict myself.

What you said is that creating threads against something is ok, while "defending it" is "amusing". But stay in your own world and pretend that's something normal and that it's not something that contradicts itself.

But, I do delight in the assumption that I have zero knowledge at all of the Malice / DJ mechanics; your knowing what I know, and what builds I've tried out is an awesome ability! I also never personally called the mechanic a bug, but oh well.

Uh, oh, you do indeed "delight in this assumption"... except that I've never said YOU don't understand how malice/DJ works, what I wrote was LITERALLY:"if you actually read through the latest threads about it, you'll notice that it's a fact and people don't understand how and why it works the way it does."

Do you even understand what you read before you decide to answer to it? Seriously, next time try to focus less on the condecending "delighting" and "amusement" and instead simply understand what you read, buddy. :)

What I did do, however, was point out why many people have a problem with the mechanic as it stands. And, on that point, I'm pretty sure I got it right.

And I told you why they have the problem with it -it's because they don't understand the mechanic. And, on that point, I'm pretty sure I got it right.

No worries, still amused at how up in arms some people are over this. ;)

I, for one, am amused over how you fail to understand what you read and then claim I wrote something I didn't ;)

[ThomasC.1056]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:Title says it pretty succinctly. The mechanic of Death's Judgment, the skill not caring which target (player, NPC, or ambient mob) the Deadeye has marked does not work for WvW. Death's Judgment is a one-shot skill requiring no setup in WvW as it exists now. Dodging the tell is problematic in anything beyond a 1 v 1 as the Deadeye doesn't have to make its presence known (again, it doesn't have to mark any enemy if it's marked something else) until it fires off Death's Judgment for numbers high enough to wipe out a toon's entire health pool.

Well, from my narrow point of view, that may qualify as an almost exploity behaviour. Scourges have been severly nerfed for an overseen mechanic that also was mildly exploity/buggy or, in whatever case, unintended and undesirable. So maybe if you shout that loud enough with enough friends on enough categories (I'm thinking here of general profession, thief subforum and general forum ?), a massive, mildly blind nerf or, more accurate, feature disabling, may occur.

That said, I'm a bit sad about this. It shows that 2/9 elite specs have been poorly thought. Which one will be next ?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Solori.6025 said:Skills that can also one shot you or do a ton of damage which is almost unavoidable or with little to no tell.BackstabGunflameShattersCoRWorldy Impact

Yes DE is annoying, but simply moving up uneven terrain is enough to counter the weapon as a whole.

Really!? The skill has a HUGE tell, long cast time, easily dodged, easily avoided and rarely - if ever will hit a moving target. Yeah it can hit BIG, with many damage modifiers but it will also miss a LOT.

[Crossaber.8934]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Skills that can also one shot you or do a ton of damage which is almost unavoidable or with little to no tell.BackstabGunflameShattersCoR

Worldy Impact

Yes DE is annoying, but simply moving up uneven terrain is enough to counter the weapon as a whole.

Really!? The skill has a HUGE tell, long cast time, easily dodged, easily avoided and rarely - if ever will hit a moving target. Yeah it can hit BIG, with many damage modifiers but it will also miss a LOT.

It got no tells if using hunter shot at point blank stealth and cast, i got hit by a soulbeast for 17k damage in wvw once. I am not saying to nerf worldly impact, just saying there are ways to make it work.

But DJ shot from stealth is even worst, it is ranged attack, especially you dont get warned by malice mark. 20k+ damage on first hit covered with stealth is a win switch.

[Despond.2174]

I experienced my first stealthed 1 shot a few days ago, but it happens too rarely atm.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

L> @Crossaber.8934 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Skills that can also one shot you or do a ton of damage which is almost unavoidable or with little to no tell.BackstabGunflameShattersCoR

Worldy Impact

Yes DE is annoying, but simply moving up uneven terrain is enough to counter the weapon as a whole.

Really!? The skill has a HUGE tell, long cast time, easily dodged, easily avoided and rarely - if ever will hit a moving target. Yeah it can hit BIG, with many damage modifiers but it will also miss a LOT.

It got no tells if using hunter shot at point blank stealth and cast, i got hit by a soulbeast for 17k damage in wvw once. I am not saying to nerf worldly impact, just saying there are ways to make it work.

But DJ shot from stealth is even worst, it is ranged attack, especially you dont get warned by malice mark. 20k+ damage on first hit covered with stealth is a win switch.

DJ damage doesn’t come from Stealth it is legitimately impossible for it to hit from Stealth, it reveals before the animation ever begins. Their are multiple Tells visual and audio on top of The Revealed Thief.

It would be nice if players understood how things worked before crying for nerfs.

[babazhook.6805]

I do not think I have met a single warrior that takes the new Reveal traits and utilities available to them in the SB spec since POF release, nor do I see many taking the tether both of which I have tried on my own warrior and can act as a significant counter to the DE (specifically those stealthed at PB range). A single use of sight beyong sight can do one of these "glass cannons" in. Mageborne tether adds a pulsing reveal.

On my own DE the only profession I have encountered that will reveals seems to be engineer.

While it has benn stated more then a few times, people still do not seem to understand how malice works. There are certain skills and traits that boost damage to a given target based upon the number of malice stacks on the DE , and not the mark As example Shadowflare just increases the raw damage per pulse of the skill itself based on the malice stacks the DE carries. If I am caught in the AOE of shadow flare I will take the same damage from it as the person who might have been marked and is caught inside that AOE. This is not a bug, it by design.

When I am stealing an item as a DE the duration of the conditions and boons are based on MY malice stacks and not that of the target. If I am running 5 malice I will get double base duration of any condition even if it not applied to the mark.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:L> @Crossaber.8934 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Skills that can also one shot you or do a ton of damage which is almost unavoidable or with little to no tell.BackstabGunflameShattersCoR

Worldy Impact

Yes DE is annoying, but simply moving up uneven terrain is enough to counter the weapon as a whole.

Really!? The skill has a HUGE tell, long cast time, easily dodged, easily avoided and rarely - if ever will hit a moving target. Yeah it can hit BIG, with many damage modifiers but it will also miss a LOT.

It got no tells if using hunter shot at point blank stealth and cast, i got hit by a soulbeast for 17k damage in wvw once. I am not saying to nerf worldly impact, just saying there are ways to make it work.

But DJ shot from stealth is even worst, it is ranged attack, especially you dont get warned by malice mark. 20k+ damage on first hit covered with stealth is a win switch.

DJ damage doesn’t come from Stealth it is legitimately impossible for it to hit from Stealth, it reveals before the animation ever begins. Their are multiple Tells visual and audio on top of The Revealed Thief.

It would be nice if players understood how things worked before crying for nerfs.

And the reveal matters at a 1500 range, how? Against a deadeye who's stealthed until the shot starts and camping an ambient mob for the constant malice stacks?

Death's Judgment as it exists now expects players to be ready to dodge it's laser tell at any given moment, regardless of a player being aware a deadeye is somewhere nearby in that 1500 range.

You can argue for it being a sniper profession, but one-shot kill skills are simply a bad idea in a MMO.

[babazhook.6805]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:L> @Crossaber.8934 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Skills that can also one shot you or do a ton of damage which is almost unavoidable or with little to no tell.BackstabGunflameShattersCoR

Worldy Impact

Yes DE is annoying, but simply moving up uneven terrain is enough to counter the weapon as a whole.

Really!? The skill has a HUGE tell, long cast time, easily dodged, easily avoided and rarely - if ever will hit a moving target. Yeah it can hit BIG, with many damage modifiers but it will also miss a LOT.

It got no tells if using hunter shot at point blank stealth and cast, i got hit by a soulbeast for 17k damage in wvw once. I am not saying to nerf worldly impact, just saying there are ways to make it work.

But DJ shot from stealth is even worst, it is ranged attack, especially you dont get warned by malice mark. 20k+ damage on first hit covered with stealth is a win switch.

DJ damage doesn’t come from Stealth it is legitimately impossible for it to hit from Stealth, it reveals before the animation ever begins. Their are multiple Tells visual and audio on top of The Revealed Thief.

It would be nice if players understood how things worked before crying for nerfs.

And the reveal matters at a 1500 range, how? Against a deadeye who's stealthed until the shot starts and camping an ambient mob for the constant malice stacks?

Death's Judgment as it exists now expects players to be ready to dodge it's laser tell at any given moment, regardless of a player being aware a deadeye is somewhere nearby in that 1500 range.

You can argue for it being a sniper profession, but one-shot kill skills are simply a bad idea in a MMO.

The laser tell , coupled with extreme range of the projectile gives plenty of time to dodge the incoming skill, react with a block, move behind a pillar and the like. Extreme range shots are also more likely to be obstructed with uneven terrain or other objects in the bullets flight path. All you need to do is avoid that shot and fully half the DE ini is used for naught.

It is very rare that a full range DJ shot can be made in game even if the target not marked. It only works against distracted foes who are not paying attention and who would have died to a gunflame under the same circumstances. Most of the DJ kills are made from a much closer range as there less likelihood the shot will be blocked by terrain and there less time for an opponent to react to the tells. (by the way Gunflame has 1500 range as well and has higher base damage then DJ. There no need to build malice)

I have faced any number of opponents in WvW and no matter the class at the recieving end , the good players can and will dodge . block or avoid a DJ shot. This by defintion means the skill not OP. An OP skill is one where no matter the skill level of a gven player , the skills damage can not be avoided. I always find it hard to reconcile the POV of wanting "skilled gameplay" by advocating for changes to make it "easier' to avoid damage.

I can dodge ALL of the damage from a DJ by pressing one button. It does not follow that just by pushing one button to dodge all said damage, it no longer "skilled".

[DemonSeed.3528]

I think people are still adjusting and learning to deal with deadeyes but once they see how easy it is to deal with them and that deadeyes have more going against them than for them they will realise that deadeyes aren't a problem at all. It's a matter of adapting to that playstyle, and it just takes a little practice to become good at dealing with them once you know their tricks. I also highly recommend getting some playtime on a deadeye for a few weeks to really get a feel for it.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:I think people are still adjusting and learning to deal with deadeyes but once they see how easy it is to deal with them and that deadeyes have more going against them than for them they will realise that deadeyes aren't a problem at all. It's a matter of adapting to that playstyle, and it just takes a little practice to become good at dealing with them once you know their tricks. I also highly recommend getting some playtime on a deadeye for a few weeks to really get a feel for it.

I have played deadeye. I've no issue with a deadeye gaining malice stacks from enemy players or hostile NPCs. The ability to charge up a weapon skill to its full damage using an ambient mob, without even harming the ambient, makes no sense for WvW.

Granted, the ambients don't need to be on the map, but I doubt Anet will ever remove them.

[Cerby.1069]

It's probably ok as is. SOmeone on the internet told me so.

[dawsm.5398]

@Sobx.1758 said:

What you said is that creating threads against something is ok, while "defending it" is "amusing". But stay in your own world and pretend that's something normal and that it's not something that contradicts itself.

My amusement doesn't automatically invalidate people defending something, and I never said people should or shouldn't start threads, but you're doing a good job seeing what you want and taking things personally.

@Sobx.1758 said:

Uh, oh, you do indeed "delight in this assumption"... except that I've never said YOU don't understand how malice/DJ works, what I wrote was LITERALLY:"if you actually read through the latest threads about it, you'll notice that it's a fact and people don't understand how and why it works the way it does."

And my first post wasn't directed at -you- either, but it didn't stop you from behaving as if it was. In fact, looking back through this thread, you seem to have an issue with several people posting and not just me.

@Sobx.1758 said:

Do you even understand what you read before you decide to answer to it? Seriously, next time try to focus less on the condecending "delighting" and "amusement" and instead simply understand what you read, buddy. :)

Laughs Pot, kettle, and black; as many things as you've basically claimed I said, that I actually didn't, I don't think you should be telling others to work on reading comprehension. You may consider this a response to your last sentence as well, for brevity's sake.

@Sobx.1758 said:

And I told you why they have the problem with it -it's because they don't understand the mechanic. And, on that point, I'm pretty sure I got it right.

Nope, I'm pretty sure there are people who've tried deadeye that have an issue with how the mechanic works. Heck, I'm one of those people who knows exactly what you can do with it on a power build and considers it wonky. And, no, deadeyes being easy targets, or the attack being easy to dodge, doesn't change the questionable ability to charge up a combat oriented mechanic while not being in combat. But, you' don't seem to have any intention of thinking about this otherwise.

Now, to really lay it out for you, I'd wager that what you didn't like was my first post basically chiding a certain subset of the "defending" population. That subset being players who treat the Deadeye's Mark / Malice / DJ dynamic as an easy-mode button in regards to building Malice without actually engaging in combat at all. Naturally, many in that subset want to make as much noise as they can so they don't lose that easy-mode button. People who want to defend the Malice / DJ mechanics as they are, without taking into account that no other profession in the game can so benefit in combat by highlighting a non-combat oriented mob, are just being upset that someone might take their new shiny thing. However, perhaps that shiny new thing needs to be adjusted. But, my amusement at people clamoring over said shiny thing won't make it be adjusted, and the clamoring itself won't keep it from being adjusted; it is ultimately up to Anet.

You seem too close to the matter, and too worried about it being changed, to view it objectively. Hence, your every post in this thread basically being to abrasively go at people who question the current design's fairness; even the posters who haven't been as amused as me.

But, I'm done now, you can respond all you wish without reprisal from me. I've no intention of carrying on with you further, it's just not worth it. ;)

@Solori.6025 said:

If you can't Rally off said creatures, why should they cause your death? :)

Easier solution,

REMOVE ALL random PVE FROM WVWambient creatures,random raptors, krait, etc.

This way no one will be able to use PvE mobs to teleport to, or gain any other class resource ( or sigil buffs) that requires the death of something ,and thieves wont be able to generate malice from it.

Do for one, do for all.

I actually love this idea. I hate being slowed down because I've caught aggro from some throw away mob. I really don't see it happening, but I really do hate some of the PvE elements that pop up in WvW.

[babazhook.6805]

There a lot of "one shot one kill" meme going on here as well , which is far from the case if a person truly familiar with the DE rifle spec.

YES the one shot that HITS can hit hard but there are more often then not far more shots taken before that one hits and especially at those longer ranges. The person that finally does take that hit would be totally unaware of the shots that were taken and that missed.

The miss can happen for any number of reasons and those reasons go up the further away one is from the target. I have taken shots from range that were obstructed due to terrain levels or things that block the LOS. I have taken shots that missed due to the target just moving slightly and no longer being in range or suddenly placing a pet or dolyak between myself and the target. I have taken shots that were evaded just because the target dodging a different persons attack. In all of these cases the target is not even aware those shots were taken.

If one is taking 5 shots before one hits that is 30 + ini to take those shots. It 5 shots one hit. If 5 shots miss before one hits, it hardly "one shot one kill".

In order to increase the hit rate of those shots the DE will significantly close that range so as to increase effectiveness and the percentage of shots that can ge through.Needless to say this makes them more vulnerable to counters such as the reveal from a SB or engineer. It pretty hard for any thief to pull of 3 DJ's in a row as this means more INI than they have available. ALL professions have more blocks/dodges or other means of avoiding these shots then those 2 DJ shots the DE has. (Which a major reason DE rifle spec is not all that great in a 1v1)

[Solori.6025]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Skills that can also one shot you or do a ton of damage which is almost unavoidable or with little to no tell.BackstabGunflameShattersCoR

Worldy Impact

Yes DE is annoying, but simply moving up uneven terrain is enough to counter the weapon as a whole.

Really!? The skill has a HUGE tell, long cast time, easily dodged, easily avoided and rarely - if ever will hit a moving target. Yeah it can hit BIG, with many damage modifiers but it will also miss a LOT.

. . . . So does Deaths Judgement.....So does CoR

Like you literally just described the issues with multiple attacks on that list

[KrHome.1920]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

[Justine.6351]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:the ambients don't need to be on the mapYea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

As a class with only targeted movement skills and appreciation for wvw feeling like open world,+1

[babazhook.6805]

The claim made that you can "charge up a combat oriented ability" by not being in Combat when it comes to malice and the use of deaths judgement.

If one just parks in stealth and does not enter combat it takes 21 seconds to charge to the full 7 malice stacks. Mark with malice only lasts for 24 seconds. This gives you three seconds to enter combat and get your shot off before malice resets. It simply not practical. (this presumes malificient 7 traited)

Ok to the ambient creatures. All classes can build up damage or garner other benefits by killing these creatures prior to entering player versus player combat. It is not limited to the Deadeye. People kill these things all the time for bloodlust stacks, to get life force , to generate adrenaline or ensure a burst gets off so as to add other benefits. (Need Adrenal or conditions cleansed burst a moa). Using ambients to do these things has been a thing since launch.

Whether this should or should not happen has nothing to do with malice and DJ and singling out malice and DJ exhibits bias. If DE should not benefit off ambients so as to enhance their attack then no class should be able to.

Added to that the case for "building malice off ambients" has not been made. In practical game terms this only can happen in limited locales where such critters exist in numbers. Added to that if a thief is spending his time trying to build malice off the same (it will take somewheres around 12 seconds) then that 12 seconds his team fighting other players as the thief kills Moas or Minotaurs. After killing off those Moas or Minotaurs so as to get those malice stacks the thief now has to enter combat against other players to find his target for the big hit. He has about 10 seconds to do this. In those 12 seconds he was wasting his time building malice on ambients to as to get that big shot in his teamates had to deal with that enemy group without his help and those 12 seconds of time he was off building up malice so as to get that single big shot in , could have been used to damage those enemy players.

I am pretty certain if you do the math that thief and the group said thief is with would be better served were he using those TRBS and AAS and other such attacks against enemy players for those 12 seconds rather than against a Moa that happens to be running around.

If you are on your Guardian in a 2V3 wherein on of the two on your side is a DE , do you really want him running off to kill Moas to build malice as your fight turns into a 1v3 and if for that matter were you that guardian and you got downed by those three players and on asking the DE why he did not help he said "I needed to wait out of combat for 21 seconds to build my malice to full" what would you say?

[X T D.6458]

Guys I have the perfect solution, give every class stealth, and lets all play hide and seek in wvw. Everyone should be able to kill other players while invisible right?