Which profession needs changes?

[Arheundel.6451]

People asking for nerfs on stealth, thief..ranger.....meanwhile I find myself alongside 10+ people trying to kill a boonball small team from Desolation made up of : scourge-condi rev-scrapper x2 -Firebrand and tempest.....perma boon despite all the efforts to strip them , perma boon ball snowballing like cheese..the same people who enjoy this meta then come here asking for nerfs on thief or necro when alone they get killed sporadically by a passing roamer...so understandably they become salty .

The thread may have been made with the best intentions but like many similar threads before it...not worth listening to

[JorneMormel.9850]

@Za Shaloc.3908 said:Too lazy to get out of bed this morning, so here are my thoughts in no particular order:

Guardian: I would like to see a total rework to Firebrand tomes so there isn't such a huge skill bloat offered for just one elite spec, and would then like to see the espec rebalanced. Burn Guard's trait synergy combined with skills like SoJ is such an abhorrent cancer that I would love to see nuked from orbit. It could use some buffs to make it a more well-rounded condi class, it just does what it does way too well.

Revenant: Jalis is too strong now, but I am not sure how the best way to nerf it would be. Condi Rev is horribly oppressive in small-scale and needs some nerfs along with a total rework to Tormenting Runes. True Nature - Demon needs to be reevaluated. Ventari could use some reworks: bubble uptime is stupid cheese but its overall ability to support is rather poor and impractical.Hammer is both very oppressive in its tiny niche and absolutely horrible otherwise; I'm in the camp of reworking it at this point. Shortbow is low effort with high reward. My main class so I could write a whole lot more here.

Ranger: Dolyak Stance needs to have its damage reduction removed. Ancient Seeds should just be straight up reworked. Druid could see some overall buffs to its support potential (mostly making staff and CA1/2 slightly more practical). Self prot uptime potential is arguably problematic. Otherwise eh, I think the class is relatively fine. Strong roamer with effective snipe builds. If I had my way I would like to see arcing on all projectile skills removed, but that is moreso just bias speaking and is most noticeable with Ranger longbow's inherent long range.

Thief: IMO Shadow Arts is probably the most standout problem with the class. Stealth uptime is far too high. I also think Swipe being unblockable is a mistake; would like to see it given 900 range with unblockable removed. Dash is arguably too much value for its investment, but I am not a Thief player so cannot really comment too deeply on this. Beyond the stealth cheese, the class seems a bit undertuned. Downed Deadeyes should automatically spawn siege blueprints on top of them and cause all enemies within 240 units to jump repeatedly.

Elementalist: Core needs big love for sure. Weaver IMO is fine. Tempest's ability to disrupt small-scale fights is pretty insane. Honestly the biggest thing for me would be to restore the old aura icons so it is easier to differentiate them. Magnetic and Shocking aura need to be instantly discernible in any scale of fight, and the icons were the best way of recognizing this. Otherwise, support Tempest's potential to survive is probably overtuned, but not really sure if in need of nerfs. #JustMinstrelThings

Warrior: Oh dear, I am not really sure how to approach this one. The class is clearly one of the weaker ones right now, but Full Counter still stands out as overtuned and propping up the class more than it should. Core feels too weak and Berserker is absolutely horribly designed and needs a rework to not be such a one-trick pony gimmick. There are weapons that still stand out as dated (offhand mace, offhand sword, longbow come to mind). Buff core War in a way that makes the class more viable without returning it to pre-balance patch stancemonkey Defense builds.

Mesmer: Class is generally suffering right now, but Mirage Cloak is still inherently broken at its core. Reevaluate Mirage Cloak and restore Mirage's second dodge. Power Mes is a one trick pony that is nothing without its burst. Clones die insanely easily in the game mode. Continuum Split is a questionable design choice considering its potential impact, but at the very least requires finesse to pull off. Invuln uptime potential (mostly for Signet Inspirarion Mirage builds) is way too high even with just one dodge, but shouldn't be looked at before the class in general gets some buffs. Honestly the class seems really badly balanced in general. Heart goes out to you all, unless you main condi Mirage.

Engineer: Core, like Ele, is undertuned and needs some big love. Purity of Purpose should be restricted to self-only. Scrapper Support feels too easy to play, if that makes sense. Scrapper's damage-to-barrier mechanic is pretty broken for power builds in terms of WvW. Explosive Entrance/Flashbang and Nades are all overtuned, but even with all of that, core is still C-tier. Not much else to say.

Necro: I wish support Scourge was more of a thing, but the spec has received so many nerfs because its design is so unhealthy for the game mode. I would like to see quickness uptime on Reaper's Onslaught brought down. Shroud uptime is probably overtuned on some builds, but not really sure it needs to be addressed in the context of WvW. The class needs some of its boon-hate restored. Not sure what else to say here.

^This, though I'd have to add that a lot of the Ranger's options outside of the few roaming/snipe builds they have are rather limited or lackluster. It's not just druid, but rather most of their weapons, the pet and most of the utility/elite skills.

Edit: Why can't I answer more than 1 in the poll?

[Biermeister.4678]

Any nerf to the Boon ball will work

[solemn.9608]

Nerf thief stealth or buff eleNerf ranger 1shot or buff eleNerf endless warrior CC or buff eleNerf condi spam or let ele have easier access to cleansesNerf engi grenades or let ele do the sameNerf DH burn or give us OP fire weaver backNerf condi mirage or buff eleNerf condi rev or buff ele

On second thought, maybe just buff ele(I realize this will trigger non-ele mains who do not understand how unloved ele has always been)

Every class gets some cheesy mechanicEle can either be almost on-par with other builds in the hands of talent, or a useless unkillable tank. That's eles gimmick: be almost good or be almost useless. Maybe retune ele just a bit idk

Edit: voted teef because screw shadow arts/stealth.

[Zikory.6871]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:People asking for nerfs on stealth, thief..ranger.....meanwhile I find myself alongside 10+ people trying to kill a boonball small team from Desolation made up of : scourge-condi rev-scrapper x2 -Firebrand and tempest.....perma boon despite all the efforts to strip them , perma boon ball snowballing like cheese..the same people who enjoy this meta then come here asking for nerfs on thief or necro when alone they get killed sporadically by a passing roamer...so understandably they become salty .

The thread may have been made with the best intentions but like many similar threads before it...not worth listening to

How do you suppose "boon balls" kill each other? They stack all this support and yet, they still have the strips/CC/damage to kill other "boon balls".

Anecdotally, vs Mag, a 30 man group stayed in Bay lords for 45m until the defending group + cloud gave up. That same 30 man group, got repeatedly pushed out of SMC by cloud under 10 minutes without much issue. Same 30 man comp, different defenders. :shrug:

[manu.7539]

Needed change:

Guardian: nerf sustainRevenant: nerf damageWarrior: no changeEngineer: nerf sustainRanger: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Thief: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Elementalist: buff buff buff... (little bias here... but lets say some buffs!)Mesmer: no changeNecromancer: nerfs nerf nerf...

In general, nerf stealthing and sustain (except for weavers, need my stab back!)

[manu.7539]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"manu.7539" said:Needed change:

Guardian: nerf sustainRevenant: nerf damageWarrior: no changeEngineer: nerf sustainRanger: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Thief: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Elementalist: buff buff buff... (little bias here... but lets say some buffs!)Mesmer: no changeNecromancer: nerfs nerf nerf...

In general, nerf stealthing and sustain (except for weavers, need my stab back!)

^in general "I only play one class so nerf everything, but buff my class". Solid average forum user :lol:

U perfectly read in my mind! Joking here, the truth is there is some truth in what I said! That was according to my roamer experience vs these classes. Since I barely zerged or played other classes, its worth what its worth but I tried to be honest... well lets admit that burn guards probably could use some buff too since they rarely beat me, dammit, u made me say it! :s

[Sandzibar.5134]

Anything to gut boon share and 100% boon uptime.

[Skada.1362]

Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Skada.1362 said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Do destroy thief entirely lmao sure, u mention in all ur posts calling for hard dp nerfs that u happen to be a dp main, yea im sure u are lmao.So let's reduce heartseeker damage even though its high spikes are dependent on targets hp and reduce shadow shots damage as well cuz umm on even warrior builds where I build for sustain not all damage I can out do HS and SS damage.Lastly let's make thiefs jobe ob as a roamer to the point ur a good roamer in line with many other classes all while already being the worst for zergs haha.Wow good teef balance ideas right there.I agree stealth uptime is to high so simply make stealth max at 6 sec unshakable and only resets to the six making the thief use even more resources if it chooses to. Rest haha would literally kill the class and leave it weak asf against tanks classes that will and do out burst it.Again sure ur a dp main.

[Sobx.1758]

@manu.7539 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@manu.7539 said:Needed change:

Guardian: nerf sustainRevenant: nerf damageWarrior: no changeEngineer: nerf sustainRanger: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Thief: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Elementalist: buff buff buff... (little bias here... but lets say some buffs!)Mesmer: no changeNecromancer: nerfs nerf nerf...

In general, nerf stealthing and sustain (except for weavers, need my stab back!)

^in general "I only play one class so nerf everything, but buff my class". Solid average forum user :lol:

U perfectly read in my mind! Joking here, the truth is there is some truth in what I said![...]Since I barely [...] played other classes, its worth what its worth but I tried to be honest...

Oh, I'm not saying you're not "trying to be honest", you can very eaasly ACTUALLY think you're correct, but as you can see it doesn't take much of a "mind reading" or blind guessing to know you're just playing one class based on what you write. So jokes aside, start playing other classes, because the bias is pretty strong in your posts.

[Skada.1362]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Skada.1362" said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Do destroy thief entirely lmao sure, u mention in all ur posts calling for hard dp nerfs that u happen to be a dp main, yea im sure u are lmao.So let's reduce heartseeker damage even though its high spikes are dependent on targets hp and reduce shadow shots damage as well cuz umm on even warrior builds where I build for sustain not all damage I can out do HS and SS damage.Lastly let's make thiefs jobe ob as a roamer to the point ur a good roamer in line with many other classes all while already being the worst for zergs haha.Wow good teef balance ideas right there.I agree stealth uptime is to high so simply make stealth max at 6 sec unshakable and only resets to the six making the thief use even more resources if it chooses to. Rest haha would literally kill the class and leave it weak asf against tanks classes that will and do out burst it.Again sure ur a dp main.

Yeah I'm a DP main, for years and years. Oh and your sustain built warrior can't shadowstep 900 range while applying a 900 range unblockable 5 sec blind all while hitting pretty damn hard. Stop being so defensive just cause i want to remove a completely and utterly OBNOXIOUS BUILD(s) that the majority of roamers use. You respond like im trying to steal from you ;). Both core SD and daredevil SD are great and fun builds, dp with deadly arts is great. Imagine if this noob build got removed how it would open up so many more builds for other classes. SA paired with DP is holding alot of other classes down imo. I talked to some friends who also play thief and we all share the opinion that we feel we are basically "forced" to play with SA, or we'd get lit up by.. guess what? an enemy SA thief. Anyways, these are just my opinions.. didnt mean to make you upset, fellow thief main.

[moutzaheadin.4029]

What really makes me laugh at the devs in this game is, the moment boon share Mesmer was a thing they obliterated the spec for it in short order.

Now what we have here is 100x worse with minstrel fb/scrapper/rev yet nothing AT ALL IS DONE.

They really have no clue, probably have given up is my guess. What a mess it is now.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Do destroy thief entirely lmao sure, u mention in all ur posts calling for hard dp nerfs that u happen to be a dp main, yea im sure u are lmao.So let's reduce heartseeker damage even though its high spikes are dependent on targets hp and reduce shadow shots damage as well cuz umm on even warrior builds where I build for sustain not all damage I can out do HS and SS damage.Lastly let's make thiefs jobe ob as a roamer to the point ur a good roamer in line with many other classes all while already being the worst for zergs haha.Wow good teef balance ideas right there.I agree stealth uptime is to high so simply make stealth max at 6 sec unshakable and only resets to the six making the thief use even more resources if it chooses to. Rest haha would literally kill the class and leave it weak asf against tanks classes that will and do out burst it.Again sure ur a dp main.

Yeah I'm a DP main, for years and years. Oh and your sustain built warrior can't shadowstep 900 range while applying a 900 range unblockable 5 sec blind all while hitting pretty kitten hard. Stop being so defensive just cause i want to remove a completely and utterly OBNOXIOUS BUILD(s) that the majority of roamers use. You respond like im trying to steal from you ;). Both core SD and daredevil SD are great and fun builds, dp with deadly arts is great. Imagine if this noob build got removed how it would open up so many more builds for other classes. SA paired with DP is holding alot of other classes down imo. I talked to some friends who also play thief and we all share the opinion that we feel we are basically "forced" to play with SA, or we'd get lit up by.. guess what? an enemy SA thief. Anyways, these are just my opinions.. didnt mean to make you upset, fellow thief main.

No but it can gs 5 charge and do 3k, similar damage gap closer. One is in melee range and squishy hence blind and the other far tankier not needing blind.SA needs some adjustments for its utility, I run cs dp so I can at least have some burst damage on those skills u mentioned lol.

[Skada.1362]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Do destroy thief entirely lmao sure, u mention in all ur posts calling for hard dp nerfs that u happen to be a dp main, yea im sure u are lmao.So let's reduce heartseeker damage even though its high spikes are dependent on targets hp and reduce shadow shots damage as well cuz umm on even warrior builds where I build for sustain not all damage I can out do HS and SS damage.Lastly let's make thiefs jobe ob as a roamer to the point ur a good roamer in line with many other classes all while already being the worst for zergs haha.Wow good teef balance ideas right there.I agree stealth uptime is to high so simply make stealth max at 6 sec unshakable and only resets to the six making the thief use even more resources if it chooses to. Rest haha would literally kill the class and leave it weak asf against tanks classes that will and do out burst it.Again sure ur a dp main.

Yeah I'm a DP main, for years and years. Oh and your sustain built warrior can't shadowstep 900 range while applying a 900 range unblockable 5 sec blind all while hitting pretty kitten hard. Stop being so defensive just cause i want to remove a completely and utterly OBNOXIOUS BUILD(s) that the majority of roamers use. You respond like im trying to steal from you ;). Both core SD and daredevil SD are great and fun builds, dp with deadly arts is great. Imagine if this noob build got removed how it would open up so many more builds for other classes. SA paired with DP is holding alot of other classes down imo. I talked to some friends who also play thief and we all share the opinion that we feel we are basically "forced" to play with SA, or we'd get lit up by.. guess what? an enemy SA thief. Anyways, these are just my opinions.. didnt mean to make you upset, fellow thief main.

No but it can gs 5 charge and do 3k, similar damage gap closer. One is in melee range and squishy hence blind and the other far tankier not needing blind.SA needs some adjustments for its utility, I run cs dp so I can at least have some burst damage on those skills u mentioned lol.

Rush is 16 sec CD traited and does damage only, and is wonky af. Shadowshot can be done every 5 seconds, applies 5 sec (op AF) blind, which is even unblockable cuz why not lol, and does great damage. It's completely overtuned. Even with the standard SA/TR/DD zerk/mara mix with like vamp runes you will obliterate people, no low damage there. Nerf Shadow arts, nerf Shadowshot blind duration and damage, hell even nerf Shadowstep. I want this obnoxious OP af shit gone from the game, that's all.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Do destroy thief entirely lmao sure, u mention in all ur posts calling for hard dp nerfs that u happen to be a dp main, yea im sure u are lmao.So let's reduce heartseeker damage even though its high spikes are dependent on targets hp and reduce shadow shots damage as well cuz umm on even warrior builds where I build for sustain not all damage I can out do HS and SS damage.Lastly let's make thiefs jobe ob as a roamer to the point ur a good roamer in line with many other classes all while already being the worst for zergs haha.Wow good teef balance ideas right there.I agree stealth uptime is to high so simply make stealth max at 6 sec unshakable and only resets to the six making the thief use even more resources if it chooses to. Rest haha would literally kill the class and leave it weak asf against tanks classes that will and do out burst it.Again sure ur a dp main.

Yeah I'm a DP main, for years and years. Oh and your sustain built warrior can't shadowstep 900 range while applying a 900 range unblockable 5 sec blind all while hitting pretty kitten hard. Stop being so defensive just cause i want to remove a completely and utterly OBNOXIOUS BUILD(s) that the majority of roamers use. You respond like im trying to steal from you ;). Both core SD and daredevil SD are great and fun builds, dp with deadly arts is great. Imagine if this noob build got removed how it would open up so many more builds for other classes. SA paired with DP is holding alot of other classes down imo. I talked to some friends who also play thief and we all share the opinion that we feel we are basically "forced" to play with SA, or we'd get lit up by.. guess what? an enemy SA thief. Anyways, these are just my opinions.. didnt mean to make you upset, fellow thief main.

No but it can gs 5 charge and do 3k, similar damage gap closer. One is in melee range and squishy hence blind and the other far tankier not needing blind.SA needs some adjustments for its utility, I run cs dp so I can at least have some burst damage on those skills u mentioned lol.

Rush is 16 sec CD traited and does damage only, and is wonky af. Shadowshot can be done every 5 seconds, applies 5 sec (op AF) blind, which is even unblockable cuz why not lol, and does great damage. It's completely overtuned. Even with the standard SA/TR/DD zerk/mara mix with like vamp runes you will obliterate people, no low damage there. Nerf Shadow arts, nerf Shadowshot blind duration and damage, hell even nerf Shadowstep. I want this obnoxious OP af kitten gone from the game, that's all.

Yeah can be done every 5 secs using a global resource that spans both weapons etc, if u die to SS spam that's a player problem not skill. Up the anti cuz fights arnt finite and only last so long so why not just lich and auto spam MORE damage from ur auto attack than SS for what on avrg would be 90% of the whole fight duration.Gs5 is wonky asf lol but its longer ranged, needs no target so great for gap closer or gap maker and does approx same dps, if I built my Warrior for strait damage id be maybe even more than SS.

[Skada.1362]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Do destroy thief entirely lmao sure, u mention in all ur posts calling for hard dp nerfs that u happen to be a dp main, yea im sure u are lmao.So let's reduce heartseeker damage even though its high spikes are dependent on targets hp and reduce shadow shots damage as well cuz umm on even warrior builds where I build for sustain not all damage I can out do HS and SS damage.Lastly let's make thiefs jobe ob as a roamer to the point ur a good roamer in line with many other classes all while already being the worst for zergs haha.Wow good teef balance ideas right there.I agree stealth uptime is to high so simply make stealth max at 6 sec unshakable and only resets to the six making the thief use even more resources if it chooses to. Rest haha would literally kill the class and leave it weak asf against tanks classes that will and do out burst it.Again sure ur a dp main.

Yeah I'm a DP main, for years and years. Oh and your sustain built warrior can't shadowstep 900 range while applying a 900 range unblockable 5 sec blind all while hitting pretty kitten hard. Stop being so defensive just cause i want to remove a completely and utterly OBNOXIOUS BUILD(s) that the majority of roamers use. You respond like im trying to steal from you ;). Both core SD and daredevil SD are great and fun builds, dp with deadly arts is great. Imagine if this noob build got removed how it would open up so many more builds for other classes. SA paired with DP is holding alot of other classes down imo. I talked to some friends who also play thief and we all share the opinion that we feel we are basically "forced" to play with SA, or we'd get lit up by.. guess what? an enemy SA thief. Anyways, these are just my opinions.. didnt mean to make you upset, fellow thief main.

No but it can gs 5 charge and do 3k, similar damage gap closer. One is in melee range and squishy hence blind and the other far tankier not needing blind.SA needs some adjustments for its utility, I run cs dp so I can at least have some burst damage on those skills u mentioned lol.

Rush is 16 sec CD traited and does damage only, and is wonky af. Shadowshot can be done every 5 seconds, applies 5 sec (op AF) blind, which is even unblockable cuz why not lol, and does great damage. It's completely overtuned. Even with the standard SA/TR/DD zerk/mara mix with like vamp runes you will obliterate people, no low damage there. Nerf Shadow arts, nerf Shadowshot blind duration and damage, hell even nerf Shadowstep. I want this obnoxious OP af kitten gone from the game, that's all.

Yeah can be done every 5 secs using a global resource that spans both weapons etc, if u die to SS spam that's a player problem not skill. Up the anti cuz fights arnt finite and only last so long so why not just lich and auto spam MORE damage from ur auto attack than SS for what on avrg would be 90% of the whole fight duration.Gs5 is wonky asf lol but its longer ranged, needs no target so great for gap closer or gap maker and does approx same dps, if I built my Warrior for strait damage id be maybe even more than SS.

I dunno why you want to compare your built warrior with anything. Shadow arts is OP. Shadowshot is OP, among a ton of other things in a thieves kit. Its not a matter of opinion its the objective truth. Nerf that shit so that people will be forced to play other traitlines such as DA/CS/ACRO or even dare to play staff or SD. Thief will still be amazing. Done arguing. Truth is truth.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Skada.1362 said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Do destroy thief entirely lmao sure, u mention in all ur posts calling for hard dp nerfs that u happen to be a dp main, yea im sure u are lmao.So let's reduce heartseeker damage even though its high spikes are dependent on targets hp and reduce shadow shots damage as well cuz umm on even warrior builds where I build for sustain not all damage I can out do HS and SS damage.Lastly let's make thiefs jobe ob as a roamer to the point ur a good roamer in line with many other classes all while already being the worst for zergs haha.Wow good teef balance ideas right there.I agree stealth uptime is to high so simply make stealth max at 6 sec unshakable and only resets to the six making the thief use even more resources if it chooses to. Rest haha would literally kill the class and leave it weak asf against tanks classes that will and do out burst it.Again sure ur a dp main.

Yeah I'm a DP main, for years and years. Oh and your sustain built warrior can't shadowstep 900 range while applying a 900 range unblockable 5 sec blind all while hitting pretty kitten hard. Stop being so defensive just cause i want to remove a completely and utterly OBNOXIOUS BUILD(s) that the majority of roamers use. You respond like im trying to steal from you ;). Both core SD and daredevil SD are great and fun builds, dp with deadly arts is great. Imagine if this noob build got removed how it would open up so many more builds for other classes. SA paired with DP is holding alot of other classes down imo. I talked to some friends who also play thief and we all share the opinion that we feel we are basically "forced" to play with SA, or we'd get lit up by.. guess what? an enemy SA thief. Anyways, these are just my opinions.. didnt mean to make you upset, fellow thief main.

No but it can gs 5 charge and do 3k, similar damage gap closer. One is in melee range and squishy hence blind and the other far tankier not needing blind.SA needs some adjustments for its utility, I run cs dp so I can at least have some burst damage on those skills u mentioned lol.

Rush is 16 sec CD traited and does damage only, and is wonky af. Shadowshot can be done every 5 seconds, applies 5 sec (op AF) blind, which is even unblockable cuz why not lol, and does great damage. It's completely overtuned. Even with the standard SA/TR/DD zerk/mara mix with like vamp runes you will obliterate people, no low damage there. Nerf Shadow arts, nerf Shadowshot blind duration and damage, hell even nerf Shadowstep. I want this obnoxious OP af kitten gone from the game, that's all.

Yeah can be done every 5 secs using a global resource that spans both weapons etc, if u die to SS spam that's a player problem not skill. Up the anti cuz fights arnt finite and only last so long so why not just lich and auto spam MORE damage from ur auto attack than SS for what on avrg would be 90% of the whole fight duration.Gs5 is wonky asf lol but its longer ranged, needs no target so great for gap closer or gap maker and does approx same dps, if I built my Warrior for strait damage id be maybe even more than SS.

I dunno why you want to compare your built warrior with anything. Shadow arts is OP. Shadowshot is OP, among a ton of other things in a thieves kit. Its not a matter of opinion its the objective truth. Nerf that kitten so that people will be forced to play other traitlines such as DA/CS/ACRO or even dare to play staff or SD. Thief will still be amazing. Done arguing. Truth is truth.

No first of its not the the objective truth, u can not state that as its simply ur opinion their op. I do think SA needs some shaves in the utility/stealth access department but it also doesnt need gutted to the piont its useless and never used, this mentality among the players is ruining the game and its population decreasing build varieties.About shadowshot I disagree and don't find it op at all when taking the game and its current state among the roster, not even close to op.

[Acemos.2856]

Yeha guysa! Lets nerf teef so it cant stelths anymore! Yey!!!!!!!! Honestly I'm kinda surprised more people aren't voting to nerf things in zerg comps like scrappers or firebrands or something. It's World vs World. The players that make a real dent in their world's score are those participating in a zerg, organized or not. Thieves aren't going to take SMC or your tiered towers and keeps -- unless your world is literally asleep at the wheel (in which case, any class would be able to take those objectives). Even in a group, if you compare a group of 3 thieves to a group that has like an aura tempest or like a firebrand or something (a real havoc squad), if they all stick together and play smart, thieves should be pretty low impact. Also, I don't know about any of you, but I don't see any organized zerg groups with like 30 thieves, there's a reason for that.

When we say that thief is OP, we really need to put that into perspective. OP in what way? In small skirmishes? Firstly, if you're really concerned about the outcome of small skirmishes or even duels, I'd really like to propose that you play strucutred PvP where everything is much more balanced around smaller skirmishes rather than what's supposed to be PvP in a sort of PvE landscape (WvW). I understand what you guys are saying, but I think we're missing the bigger picture. Those montages on youtube or that time you got 1v3'd by a thief isn't exactly good evidence that shows thief is OP (sidenote -- have you seen scrapper grenades???). The montages are cherry-picked, and if you're really paying attention to your team during a 1v3 where you lost, I guarantee that all or most of you were just playing poorly or were playing bad builds with absolutely no pressure or presence in that fight. Consider what classes you were playing. Were you playing a roaming build or a zerging build? What about your teammates? If you or your teammates were playing zerging builds, they're going to be providing pretty much no pressure in your fight. If thieves are giving you a hard time, play soulbeast, play dragonhunter, play spellbreaker with magebane tether, play condi druid (immobs mess them up, even daredevils. stacking exhaustion is no joke), play another thief, play anything with good burst. These are all strong options that you need to consider.

Ok, Real talk, how many of you asking for a thief nerf have actually played thief? Was it easy? Try to 1v3. Compare it to other strong builds. Compare it to Condi Necro. Compare your survivability, how much damage you're taking and dealing. Compare it to other builds. For some of you who think Shadow Arts is too strong and stealth needs to be severely nerfed, try playing current thief without stealth. Was it easy? Hard? In most scenarios, you should find that it's way worse. It's gonna be like warrior but worse. Before you post, you gotta really consider the impact a change would have. If you're going to suggest a huge nerf without considering the consequence, it's not helpful and it's a waste of everyone's time. Thief survivability needs to be tweaked to be better. If stealth is going to be nerfed, thieves need to be able to be more survivable. We should also consider working in some of the mainline traits in Trickery into the core Thief class. Literally every thief needs to run trickery. It's in every thief build. It is absolutely necessary that it's taken because of the huge impact it has. It's literally a must have.

Anywho, that's the end of my rant. I hope that many of you will read this and take what was said to heart. If we want to make this a good game, we need to be a good community and offer good solutions with good criticism and really understand and try to experience the impact such a change would have, rather than just saying nerf this and that. Thanks.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Acemos.2856 said:Yeha guysa! Lets nerf teef so it cant stelths anymore! Yey!!!!!!!! Honestly I'm kinda surprised more people aren't voting to nerf things in zerg comps like scrappers or firebrands or something. It's World vs World. The players that make a real dent in their world's score are those participating in a zerg, organized or not. Thieves aren't going to take SMC or your tiered towers and keeps -- unless your world is literally asleep at the wheel (in which case, any class would be able to take those objectives). Even in a group, if you compare a group of 3 thieves to a group that has like an aura tempest or like a firebrand or something (a real havoc squad), if they all stick together and play smart, thieves should be pretty low impact. Also, I don't know about any of you, but I don't see any organized zerg groups with like 30 thieves, there's a reason for that.

When we say that thief is OP, we really need to put that into perspective. OP in what way? In small skirmishes? Firstly, if you're really concerned about the outcome of small skirmishes or even duels, I'd really like to propose that you play strucutred PvP where everything is much more balanced around smaller skirmishes rather than what's supposed to be PvP in a sort of PvE landscape (WvW). I understand what you guys are saying, but I think we're missing the bigger picture. Those montages on youtube or that time you got 1v3'd by a thief isn't exactly good evidence that shows thief is OP (sidenote -- have you seen scrapper grenades???). The montages are cherry-picked, and if you're really paying attention to your team during a 1v3 where you lost, I guarantee that all or most of you were just playing poorly or were playing bad builds with absolutely no pressure or presence in that fight. Consider what classes you were playing. Were you playing a roaming build or a zerging build? What about your teammates? If you or your teammates were playing zerging builds, they're going to be providing pretty much no pressure in your fight. If thieves are giving you a hard time, play soulbeast, play dragonhunter, play spellbreaker with magebane tether, play condi druid (immobs mess them up, even daredevils. stacking exhaustion is no joke), play another thief, play anything with good burst. These are all strong options that you need to consider.

Ok, Real talk, how many of you asking for a thief nerf have actually played thief? Was it easy? Try to 1v3. Compare it to other strong builds. Compare it to Condi Necro. Compare your survivability, how much damage you're taking and dealing. Compare it to other builds. For some of you who think Shadow Arts is too strong and stealth needs to be severely nerfed, try playing current thief without stealth. Was it easy? Hard? In most scenarios, you should find that it's way worse. It's gonna be like warrior but worse. Before you post, you gotta really consider the impact a change would have. If you're going to suggest a huge nerf without considering the consequence, it's not helpful and it's a waste of everyone's time. Thief survivability needs to be tweaked to be better. If stealth is going to be nerfed, thieves need to be able to be more survivable. We should also consider working in some of the mainline traits in Trickery into the core Thief class. Literally every thief needs to run trickery. It's in every thief build. It is absolutely necessary that it's taken because of the huge impact it has. It's literally a must have.

Anywho, that's the end of my rant. I hope that many of you will read this and take what was said to heart. If we want to make this a good game, we need to be a good community and offer good solutions with good criticism and really understand and try to experience the impact such a change would have, rather than just saying nerf this and that. Thanks.

Vast majority of those asking for nerfs on the WvW forum are zerglings who get killed on their way back to the zerg so yeah...they neither know how to play a thief or how to play against one....the vast majority of them that is it.

[Jski.6180]

I think ppl are getting the need for stealth update and class update mixed up. Stealth is broken but the thf class fill its roll well (in and out burst effect class).

[kash.9213]

@manu.7539 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@manu.7539 said:Needed change:

Guardian: nerf sustainRevenant: nerf damageWarrior: no changeEngineer: nerf sustainRanger: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Thief: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Elementalist: buff buff buff... (little bias here... but lets say some buffs!)Mesmer: no changeNecromancer: nerfs nerf nerf...

In general, nerf stealthing and sustain (except for weavers, need my stab back!)

^in general "I only play one class so nerf everything, but buff my class". Solid average forum user :lol:

U perfectly read in my mind! Joking here, the truth is there is some truth in what I said! That was according to my roamer experience vs these classes. Since I barely zerged or played other classes, its worth what its worth but I tried to be honest... well lets admit that burn guards probably could use some buff too since they rarely beat me, kitten, u made me say it! :s

Explain what you would nerf or just save it, you don't have a point to make.

@Skada.1362 said:Destroy Shadow Arts, reduce Shadowshot and Heartseeker damage or increase their initiative cost, reduce Ranger boon duration and Necro life force regeneration...imo edit: and reduce Shadowshot blind duration from 5 sec to max 2 sec. Its a totally overloaded skill. (SA D/P Dash main btw)

Shadowshot does have a lot going on and it gets really dumb with SA. I also don't feel like I'm not burning much Initiative around Shadowshots use because of how I engage with it and what I follow up with. By cost it's a really good tether and that's a problem given how I can bail just easily.

That general build template is about all I have a problem with though besides Dash. Most of the thief seems pretty fair at the moment.

[manu.7539]

@kash.9213 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@manu.7539 said:Needed change:

Guardian: nerf sustainRevenant: nerf damageWarrior: no changeEngineer: nerf sustainRanger: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Thief: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Elementalist: buff buff buff... (little bias here... but lets say some buffs!)Mesmer: no changeNecromancer: nerfs nerf nerf...

In general, nerf stealthing and sustain (except for weavers, need my stab back!)

^in general "I only play one class so nerf everything, but buff my class". Solid average forum user :lol:

U perfectly read in my mind! Joking here, the truth is there is some truth in what I said! That was according to my roamer experience vs these classes. Since I barely zerged or played other classes, its worth what its worth but I tried to be honest... well lets admit that burn guards probably could use some buff too since they rarely beat me, kitten, u made me say it! :s

Explain what you would nerf or just save it, you don't have a point to make.

Nerf stealthing in the game whatever the class and nerf rangers damage. Hope u'll not ask me to write a full dissertation or ask me to save it if I dont!

[kash.9213]

@manu.7539 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@manu.7539 said:Needed change:

Guardian: nerf sustainRevenant: nerf damageWarrior: no changeEngineer: nerf sustainRanger: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Thief: nerf nerf nerf nerf...Elementalist: buff buff buff... (little bias here... but lets say some buffs!)Mesmer: no changeNecromancer: nerfs nerf nerf...

In general, nerf stealthing and sustain (except for weavers, need my stab back!)

^in general "I only play one class so nerf everything, but buff my class". Solid average forum user :lol:

U perfectly read in my mind! Joking here, the truth is there is some truth in what I said! That was according to my roamer experience vs these classes. Since I barely zerged or played other classes, its worth what its worth but I tried to be honest... well lets admit that burn guards probably could use some buff too since they rarely beat me, kitten, u made me say it! :s

Explain what you would nerf or just save it, you don't have a point to make.

Nerf stealthing in the game whatever the class and nerf rangers damage. Hope u'll not ask me to write a full dissertation or ask me to save it if I dont!

That's vague and useless but the other three "nerfs"? If you're just venting on a forum that's fine but you opened up swinging so it seemed like you had some stuff to actually say.

[Shroud.2307]

Actually unbelievable the votes here, really shows what the demographic of this forum is, lmao.Zerglings that think everything that kills them is OP, and roamers that think their main class is underpowered because they can't admit what ever shortcomings they have might be their fault and not the classes'.

If the question in the OP had been "what do YOU think needs changes" and not "what should be the PRIORITY to balance" then it would be understandable. But considering the question is about objective balance and not subjective opinion, votes should be going toward what things have the largest impact on WvW.And I say this as a Necro main knowing full well that would mean many of the votes would be going toward it.

Thief and Ranger are a pain as roamers, I don't think anyone's arguing that. But their actual impact on WvW is pretty well ganking the people voting that they should be nerfed and frustrating commanders they try to convince of their value.

Everything needs changes here and there. Yes, Shadow Arts should definitely be nerfed, but not without compensation either. Thief has been leaning on Shadow Arts for viability because many of its builds have been gutted.And yes "Sic 'Em!" Soulbeast is still a giant pain that attracts players who think blasting you with 20k damage from 2k range is skillful gameplay, but neither of these things are an actual issue outside of being annoying.

I'm just gonna stop coming back to this thread because it is insanely frustrating to see the votes. Not that ANet listens to much of what goes on here, but I feel for Thieves with all the hate they get knowing any of this could influence changes.

EDITI forgot already commented on this and whined about the same exact thing basically, lmao. My point stands!