ele can be remove from this game without any real consequence.

[Infusion.7149]

Feels like a troll thread at this point.
The site you linked finally worked for me. Guess what, the same site you linked had the following for Vale Guardian:

• 17770 for holo which is being nerfed slightly
• 16219 for core mesmer
• 16202 for chrono which is being nerfed significantly
• 14696 for core guardian and if you know how to read a box plot then it is within range of weaver
• 14378 for weaver
• 14370 for DH
• 14227 for scrapper which is getting quickness
• 13950 for daredevil
• 13714 for soulbeast which is being nerfed
• 12889 for berserker which is being nerfed
• 6531 for warrior which is being nerfed
• 5658 for spellbreaker while is being nerfed

Similar scenario on Gorseval which has a larger hitbox and same for Slothasor.

• On Gorseval the weaver number is 15888 which is among the highest , berserker at 13703 ; warrior number is 5637 and spellbreaker at 7339 while tempest is 7959.
• On slothasor , the weaver number is 13278 while berserker had 10878 and warrior had 11041. Tempest had 11035 but as stated above, they clearly want tempest to be a support spec.
  
  On Matthias tempest had a number higher than berserker actually with 13830 while berserker was at 12622. Tempest even did more DPS than firebrand on KC , it is listed at 13014 while firebrand is listed at 12764. Same goes for Cairn, where tempest had 16097 , weaver had 15782 while berserker listed at 15732.
   

So delete warrior too with that reasoning? Weaver is still an elementalist.

Also if you think weaver isn't going to be strong post patch in WvW you're incredibly naive since retal is being removed. It's one of the few ways to counter siege on a wall effectively and also the way to break a stalemate if at a chokepoint. With scrappers supplying quickness the efficacy of the longer cast times such as meteor shower goes up exponentially.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Obtena.7952]

34 minutes ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

and yea, instancied content where in pve you need balance outside of it, openworld ? well no.

OK ... but that doesn't change what I said. I'm not making any differentiation and based on the language Anet used in the patch notes, it appears they are considering the balance of the classes in instanced content. 

 

I mean, what did you think you were going to accomplish when you initiated this thread? Like ... Anet was actually going to delete the class because there are changes to it you don't like? Somehow the game is about what you want or think? How about you get your feet grounded here and realize what I said is true. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Savach.7219]

I think there is nothing to discuss. just look at lfg and make sure that no one is playing them and no one needs it. the elementalist is dead and "we feel the elementalist is in a very good position since the July 2020 balance update." Anet's epitaph on his tombstone

[Jski.6180]

Not looking good for ele after this update.

[Vindicate.6951]

A friend linked me an estimated golem dps sheet of all the classes pre and post patch and wow I did not expect that the 5% power nerf on elements of rage would be that insightful.

After bashing on golems for quite a while I must agree though, the 38,5k with a fresh air build got replaced with an around 37,2k tops, thats really sad news for the power weaver on tops of the exposed state changes for bosses.....

 

But on the plus side, condi weaver seems to have top notch numbers, lets get into an even more difficult rotation to soak the buff up 😄

[Savach.7219]

indeed, I jumped to conclusions. they can kill the golem. and collect flakes

[WindBlade.8749]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... but that doesn't change what I said. I'm not making any differentiation and based on the language Anet used in the patch notes, it appears they are considering the balance of the classes in instanced content. 

 

I mean, what did you think you were going to accomplish when you initiated this thread? Like ... Anet was actually going to delete the class because there are changes to it you don't like? Somehow the game is about what you want or think? How about you get your feet grounded here and realize what I said is true. 

well if you readed well the message you will see how bad your got the idea of what i meant but if you can't even understand there is no mean to discuss with you and i was not even talking about meta in genral but about viability and balance like if two dps class had holo have more dmg than weaver but bring more to the team and is less squizy that not balance (and that just a simple exemple problem in elementalist are way more rooted) and that not just about the current patch, before the patch the same problem was here.

Edited May 11, 2021 by WindBlade.8749

[Shiyo.3578]

On 5/9/2021 at 3:10 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

If classes were balanced around what is meta for endgame content, maybe you would have a point. Fortunately, Anet has delivered a game that isn't designed around these artificial mechanisms and so ele is a good play experience for lots of content. 

What does this even mean?

[Obtena.7952]

12 minutes ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

well if you readed well the message you will see how bad your got the idea of what i meant but if you can't even understand there is no mean to discuss with you

The idea is pretty clear ... use sensational statements to complain about changes you don't like. 

 

The fact remains that what you should be doing is now the changes are in game, you should test them, THEN make a good feedback thread about it. It should be no surprised at this point how the game works. 

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Shiyo.3578 said:

What does this even mean?

It means that complaining about changes to classes that change their meta ranking don't make sense because being successful in the game doesn't require playing meta. 

[Savach.7219]

1 minute ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

Что это вообще значит?

 

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Идея довольно ясна ... используйте сенсационные заявления, чтобы жаловаться на изменения, которые вам не нравятся. 

 

Факт остается фактом: то, что вам следует сделать, это то, что изменения внесены в игру, вы должны протестировать их, а ЗАТЕМ создать хорошую ветку отзывов об этом. На этом этапе не стоит удивляться тому, как работает игра. 

an overwhelming minority will play as an elementalist. you will see 4 guards in a group, 5 necromancers and anyone else, but elementalists are generally extremely rare in any group. and this has been going on for a long time. which speaks of his inability to compete with anyone.

your test was made by the best tester - time

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Savach.7219 said:

 

an overwhelming minority will play as an elementalist. you will see 4 guards in a group, 5 necromancers and anyone else, but elementalists are generally extremely rare in any group. and this has been going on for a long time. which speaks of his inability to compete with anyone.

your test was made by the best tester - time

That's not a problem because it doesn't need to 'compete' with anyone for people to be able to use it and be successful to begin with ... Again, if you think things are balanced because of meta in PVE, you're just wrong. We know if ele needs a buff, Anet is monitoring the game and will come to that conclusion. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Think about it this way, what profession makes the team comp worse by stacking? I'd say ele and thief make this category, but thief at least has its own uniqueness with at least mobility and stuff. More ele's is more liability, even in OW content. 

[Savach.7219]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's not a problem because it doesn't need to 'compete' with anyone for people to be able to use it and be successful to begin with ... Again, if you think things are balanced because of meta in PVE, you're just wrong. We know if ele needs a buff, Anet is monitoring the game and will come to that conclusion

no one competes, the truth is that each slot occupied by this class complicates the overall task.
and it's not even about the meta, but about the fact that they can only be played in a vacuum (golem)

I understand that it is possible to pass an instance with any class, but doing it twice as long and more difficult is a dubious pleasure😉

Edited May 11, 2021 by Savach.7219

[Obtena.7952]

40 minutes ago, Savach.7219 said:

no one competes, the truth is that each slot occupied by this class complicates the overall task.
and it's not even about the meta, but about the fact that they can only be played in a vacuum (golem)

I understand that it is possible to pass an instance with any class, but doing it twice as long and more difficult is a dubious pleasure😉

OK ... I mean, that goes without saying that playing not optimal builds/comps complicates completion ... but that doesn't change what I said right. I mean, it's not true that the class can only be played in a vacuum ... that doesn't even make sense to say. We know Anet is monitoring class performance in instanced content as evident by the language they used in the last patch notes. 

 

Maybe the pleasure of playing with people who aren't using meta builds is dubious to you but that doesn't have anything to do with how classes are designed and how players use them to be successful in instanced team content. You can say this isn't about meta ... but the way you talk indicates otherwise. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Savach.7219]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... I mean, that goes without saying that playing not optimal builds/comps complicates completion ... but that doesn't change what I said right. I mean, it's not true that the class can only be played in a vacuum ... that doesn't even make sense to say. We know Anet is monitoring class performance in instanced content as evident by the language they used in the last patch notes. 

 

Maybe the pleasure of playing with people who aren't using meta builds is dubious to you but that doesn't have anything to do with how classes are designed and how players use them to be successful in instanced team content. You can say this isn't about meta ... but the way you talk indicates otherwise. 

sorry you can only say that for three reasons
1 you are blind     😎
2 don't use lfg       🤪
3 infinitely naive   🥳

I often use lfg, and often follow it, and the fact remains - there are practically no elementalists there.
instans exceptions for beginners and level 1-3 fractals.
if you think that the balance of the patch was based on these statistics, then you may be right, but this only proves the incompetence of the team.

Moreover, if you think that the balance of the patch significantly affects the meta events in the open world, and the farming of mobs, then I think you are not in this thread🙂

Moreover! if you have never looked at the assembly of a team in a raid or T4 fractal, then I highly recommend doing this in order to be more objective in discussing this topic

 

and do not forget "I mean, that goes without saying that playing not optimal builds/comps complicates completion ..." these are your words in relation to the elementalist

I can't help but add that I played an elementalist 95% of the time, I liked the class, it changed and I changed with it, core, tempest, weaver.. but once I saw that playing it becomes a burden not only for me but also for the people with whom I play, so sanity won, and for almost 2 years I have been using it as a mule.. therefore, in general, I don't care how they try to nerf him even more, I just support altruists who believe in his return

Edited May 11, 2021 by Savach.7219

[Obtena.7952]

32 minutes ago, Savach.7219 said:

sorry you can only say that for three reasons

Actually there is just one reason I can say that ... because it's true. It's been true since the day the game was released. You don't need to play meta and be successful in instanced content. Any class. By design. As intended. That's why it's not a problem if performance changes ... because that fact doesn't. 

 

Don't be sorry, just don't be wrong. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Savach.7219]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Don't be sorry, just don't be wrong.

you just proved that you are talking about a vacuum. I showed you proofs but you are blind to them.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Savach.7219 said:

you just proved that you are talking about a vacuum. I showed you proofs but you are blind to them.

That makes no sense. What I said is applicable to all instanced content since the beginning of this game. You don't have to play meta to be successful in instanced content in this game. That's why when people complain their class is 'dead' because of performance changes, they are wrong. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Savach.7219]

for the gifted, right now a screenshot of the lfg, especially for you

https://pastenow.ru/62b291e43c7b172535d8bb559a390164

I hope you can count

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Savach.7219 said:

for the gifted, right now a screenshot of the lfg, especially for you

https://pastenow.ru/62b291e43c7b172535d8bb559a390164

I hope you can count

That doesn't change what I said. You don't have to play meta to be successful in instanced content in this game. 

[Savach.7219]

1 ele in 18 fotm lol

[Savach.7219]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't change what I said. You don't have to play meta to be successful in instanced content in this game

if you are dragged by friends, then there is definitely success, but not for playing a character, but in finding friends

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Savach.7219 said:

if you are dragged by friends, then there is definitely success, but not for playing a character, but in finding friends

That doesn't make sense. Again, this game is designed to allow people to be successful and not needing meta to do it. That's NOT debatable. If you experience something otherwise, it's simply because of choices YOU made in how to play the game.  

Edited May 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Savach.7219]

I will correct the misunderstanding. meta is needed for those who do not understand the game, and those who do not understand the role of classes in it

if you think that everyone is using this or another resource to build a group, then you are wrong

if the player is not a beginner he does not need a site to assess the capabilities of a particular class

therefore, do not mention the meta anymore in the discussion of this topic, everyone knows perfectly well what an elementalist can and cannot, and he cannot much more than the rest