ele can be remove from this game without any real consequence.

[Obtena.7952]

59 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

That dose not mean you KNOW though 

 

 

No, you can see things that are changed are either part of what is currently meta or they aren't ... so it's known. It's not hard to see. 

 

Do I think ele is in a good place? Depends how I define what a good place means, not that my definition is of any relevance to how this game is designed and developed anyways. 

 

Personally for me, I have builds that are across the board, because I like how they work ... so I guess for me ... that means 'a good place'. 

[Savach.7219]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Any one can take a screen shot at any time and get very different suggestions of what going on in the game. I am not just committing on your post but the poster after you as well full thoughts and i am not saying every thing you said is wrong.

I did not just take a screenshot, but did it at the moment of discussion, not knowing about the current situation, being absolutely sure that I would see there, based on what I had seen for a long time.

and you are absolutely right. you, too, can open lfg and, if you are not too lazy to write here, draw your conclusion before publishing your opinion. the conclusion will be more significant

Edited May 12, 2021 by Savach.7219

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Well, the consequence will be a set of crying Ele twins...

 

[Here could be an image]

 

...no, you don't want that.

[Jski.6180]

8 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Well, the consequence will be a set of crying Ele twins...

 

[Here could be an image]

 

...no, you don't want that.

If there where no ele i image some story line chaters would not

Spoiler

die

?

[MyPuppy.8970]

What use would golems have if we removed eles?

[Infusion.7149]

Ele is so weak...
42K benchmark incoming

~39K with a ranged weapon (scepter)

40K hybrid benchmark.

What that means is you can run some marauder gear and still have respectable damage.

[GoodWithGravy.8019]

40 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Ele is so weak...
42K benchmark incoming

~39K with a ranged weapon (scepter)

40K hybrid benchmark.

What that means is you can run some marauder gear and still have respectable damage.

 

Let's take a look at what the kind of people making these builds and benchmarks actually think about Ele:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/n25rto/thoughts_on_the_may_11_balance_patch_for_pve_and/

 

Quote

This really makes you wonder if they even play the game or bother doing any research. As a massive tempest enthusiast I can assure you that tempest is in a garbage spot for its power build and also is not great condition wise. Why they are nerfing power tempest is actually beyond me. They must have clicked on the benchmark page and saw that power and condition tempest have a high benchmark and decided to kitten on it completely without doing any actual research to see how it performs on bosses (spoiler alert, power is absolute crap and on top of that a major pain in the kitten to play properly). For the love of god, revert all power tempest changes as soon as possible as this is the 2nd most stupid change in the history of changes right after the 100% condi damage on exposed.

That's the start - they cover more in the full post.

 

I can't believe after this long we still have to point out how poor of an indicator golem benchmarks are of actual viability.

.....or the fact that PvP and WvW exist 😑

Edited May 20, 2021 by GoodWithGravy.8019

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, GoodWithGravy.8019 said:

 

Let's take a look at what the kind of people making these builds and benchmarks actually think about Ele:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/n25rto/thoughts_on_the_may_11_balance_patch_for_pve_and/

 

That's the start - they cover more in the full post.

 

I can't believe after this long we still have to point out how poor of an indicator golem benchmarks are of actual viability.

.....or the fact that PvP and WvW exist 😑

That was about tempest which isn't even the same spec and in PVE specifically.

Also staff weaver after retal change doesn't have to worry about eating massive retal in WvW and aurashare support tempest has been a staple for a while now. In PVP fire weaver was popular pre-patch along with support tempest.

I don't understand why people can't use their own judgement (then again some people can't do math), if you follow snowcrows people in WVW they use healing signet on warrior even after resistance changes and the nerfs last year 😁. Good luck with that.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Mini Crinny.6190]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

That was about tempest which isn't even the same spec and in PVE specifically.

Also staff weaver after retal change doesn't have to worry about eating massive retal in WvW and aurashare support tempest has been a staple for a while now. In PVP fire weaver was popular pre-patch along with support tempest.

I don't understand why people can't use their own judgement (then again some people can't do math), if you follow snowcrows people in WVW they use healing signet on warrior even after resistance changes and the nerfs last year 😁. Good luck with that.

 

Who brings aurashare tempest when you can have scrapper cleanse for days with literally every boon possible, aswell as the heals, Superspeed and stealth.. Auras really make up for that right?

 

Chilling fog is just free alacrity these days.. that's how bad it's become

 

The fact you are basing that ele is strong due to benchmarks on a golem shows your lack of understanding.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Mini Crinny.6190

[Infusion.7149]

12 minutes ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

 

Who brings aurashare tempest when you can have scrapper cleanse for days with literally every boon possible, aswell as the heals, Superspeed and stealth.. Auras really make up for that right?

 

Chilling fog is just free alacrity these days.. that's how bad it's become

 

The fact you are basing that ele is strong due to benchmarks on a golem shows your lack of understanding.

Did not write ele is strong, reread.

[Jski.6180]

@Infusion.7149

In what context what the point of doing so much dps when your already wining a fight. Is every one going to the max fastest run? At a point in pve being the top dps is pointless when you dont come with any thing else for a fight. That where ele is lacking and where other classes are doing well in the added effect then just pure dps numbers this game is already easy pve content i am not sure if you even need that much dmg but you need other effects then just dmg. That why you can remove the ele class from the game with out any real consequences to the game.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

@Infusion.7149

In what context what the point of doing so much dps when your already wining a fight. Is every one going to the max fastest run? At a point in pve being the top dps is pointless when you dont come with any thing else for a fight. That where ele is lacking and where other classes are doing well in the added effect then just pure dps numbers this game is already easy pve content i am not sure if you even need that much dmg but you need other effects then just dmg. That why you can remove the ele class from the game with out any real consequences to the game.

What do you mean, you need DPS to phase things. If you're doing instanced content as DPS, you do DPS. Tempest on the other hand , while nerfed this patch still puts out might and if you run discretize's variant it shares auras. Because can be used at range and has large cleave it doesn't suffer as much from instabilities that force you out of melee or to move (social awkwardness). If damage didn't matter people wouldn't have been abusing the buggy Strength runes this past week that gave +50% damage or something.

Also I played aura tempest for a while as support (PVP and WvW), staff weaver before power herald, and even way back in cele dagger+dagger in core. Even up until the scrapper change adding quickness, it was suitable in WVW since they nerfed herald to 10 man and shocking aura in small/medium groups strips stability and burns people's stunbreak very quickly. Soothing Mist is still applicable for 10+ people. Not everything is about DPS.

One of the strengths of elementalist in WvW has always been ranged CC , that's severely mitigated with the gap closed by superspeed in a short time in addition to the deep condi clear on scrapper.

[reddie.5861]

19 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Ele is so weak...
42K benchmark incoming

~39K with a ranged weapon (scepter)

40K hybrid benchmark.

What that means is you can run some marauder gear and still have respectable damage.

these are useless benchmarks tho..

i understand ALOT of people care about raids and stuff and their dmg but this is easy to fix/balance Pve is to easy to change if devs want..

 

making classes work in WvW/sPvP is another story.. even tho i think weaver is fine in both worlds it just takes bit more to play it proper.

[Jski.6180]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

What do you mean, you need DPS to phase things. If you're doing instanced content as DPS, you do DPS. Tempest on the other hand , while nerfed this patch still puts out might and if you run discretize's variant it shares auras. Because can be used at range and has large cleave it doesn't suffer as much from instabilities that force you out of melee or to move (social awkwardness). If damage didn't matter people wouldn't have been abusing the buggy Strength runes this past week that gave +50% damage or something.

Also I played aura tempest for a while as support (PVP and WvW), staff weaver before power herald, and even way back in cele dagger+dagger in core. Even up until the scrapper change adding quickness, it was suitable in WVW since they nerfed herald to 10 man and shocking aura in small/medium groups strips stability and burns people's stunbreak very quickly. Soothing Mist is still applicable for 10+ people. Not everything is about DPS.

One of the strengths of elementalist in WvW has always been ranged CC , that's severely mitigated with the gap closed by superspeed in a short time in addition to the deep condi clear on scrapper.

If your not able to replaces an part dps class with a full dps class (part dps class is a class that can do enof dps but brings other effects and a full dps is just doing dps and adding nothing else) then the full dps class is not worth bring. Or in the view of this conversion you could delete that full dps class from the game with out any thing changeting.

 

The lost for weaver the pure dps class for ele (all though core ele is also a pure dps class too but far weeker) was the lost of fury blast on fire fields. That was a massive nerf for weaver / ele in pve.

 

For wvw pure dps is different but with out the ability to stop ppl due to super speed clear spam and resistances/stab boons slow dps is next to worthless.

 

Due to the power dmg nerf cele is no longer worth it for ele dps.

 

They hit ele 10 target effects in wvw as well soothing mist is not 10 target and is hard to make hit 5 target + due to how the ai support system works. Light aura is the strongest aura in the game atm as well the amounts of stab added to the game in the last update was kind of big due to the manta change so shocking aura is weaker now.

 

Tempest super speed support is weak compared to scraper and rev self super speed only works  well for melee builds or short ranged builds something that very much dose not work well in this game type.

[Infusion.7149]

2 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

If your not able to replaces an part dps class with a full dps class (part dps class is a class that can do enof dps but brings other effects and a full dps is just doing dps and adding nothing else) then the full dps class is not worth bring. Or in the view of this conversion you could delete that full dps class from the game with out any thing changeting.

 

The lost for weaver the pure dps class for ele (all though core ele is also a pure dps class too but far weeker) was the lost of fury blast on fire fields. That was a massive nerf for weaver / ele in pve.

 

For wvw pure dps is different but with out the ability to stop ppl due to super speed clear spam and resistances/stab boons slow dps is next to worthless.

 

Due to the power dmg nerf cele is no longer worth it for ele dps.

 

They hit ele 10 target effects in wvw as well soothing mist is not 10 target and is hard to make hit 5 target + due to how the ai support system works. Light aura is the strongest aura in the game atm as well the amounts of stab added to the game in the last update was kind of big due to the manta change so shocking aura is weaker now.

 

Tempest super speed support is weak compared to scraper and rev self super speed only works  well for melee builds or short ranged builds something that very much dose not work well in this game type.

You should stop comparing elementalist in every fashion that you grasp at things that don't even make sense.
With the amount of fields being placed and the general lack of blasting anything other than stealth these days, the fields are not a primary factor. Loss of fury on fire fields is meaningless when it generates its own fury , plus tempest supports put out fury with auras. The only ranged power DPS that has consistently competed with elementalist is herald.

In WvW it isn't that weaver or tempest are weak, scrapper superspeed specifically is overtuned.

Soothing Mist does hit 10, the interval makes that the case, it has been untouched unlike shouts. It also happens to be AoE and unstrippable.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Xeon.5768]

On 5/10/2021 at 7:16 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

May I ask why you think that ele has less dps than all other dps classes?

 

Looking at the benchmarks from snowcrows, weaver has the highest benchmark of all classes against targets with big hitboxes (39,5k) and is still better than holosmith (not to mention WAY better than scrapper) against small hitboxes (38,5k against holosmith with 38k and scrapper is so much lower that it isn't even listed there).

 

So can you please provide a source and numbers for the claim that ele is such a bad dps?

Others already provide some good replies to this post.

 

Just too add few more,

There is a difference between hitting a good number on golem (with the assumption of perma conditions and boons, irrespective the effects of players' positioning), and hitting a good number of an actual encounter. There is also a difference between hitting on small box and large box. If golem benchmark reflects everything in the competitive pve contents, then pwr chronomancer should top dps in all the contents, which is obviously NOT the case in real encounters. It depends so much on slow uptime, for example, which will not be well maintained if there is a single chrono or less chrono in the group. Same thing applies to pwr weaver or soulbeast or virtue DH in the actual encounters, which as we all know have great SC golem benchmark, but are far less viable than pwr holosmith in raids.

 

As the author indicates, in pve, pwr weaver is probably only viable in fractals, but only when you are try-harding with serious skills precasting and group organization about when to activate the boss or when to take the portal. It is squashier than most other dps classes. It requires a very good knowledge of the fight to not only hit good number, but also able to survive the mechanics.

[Jski.6180]

11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You should stop comparing elementalist in every fashion that you grasp at things that don't even make sense.
With the amount of fields being placed and the general lack of blasting anything other than stealth these days, the fields are not a primary factor. Loss of fury on fire fields is meaningless when it generates its own fury , plus tempest supports put out fury with auras. The only ranged power DPS that has consistently competed with elementalist is herald.

In WvW it isn't that weaver or tempest are weak, scrapper superspeed specifically is overtuned.

Soothing Mist does hit 10, the interval makes that the case, it has been untouched unlike shouts. It also happens to be AoE and unstrippable.

The class has been nerfed in every update for the last 5 years. There has been actively movement from the devs. to keep any powerful boon away from the class as well as strong condis unblockable boon strips and condi conversion even though its a jack of all triads class with out the ability to do every thing.

 

Every thing that not ele is overturned at a point you have to ask your self if its just that ele is under-powered and not every thing else is overpowered.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Mist

 

Its 5 target and ele is not the only class with an healing effect like this but the other classes are only locked into taking a trait where ele is locked into taking a trait line (and trait if they want it to be worth something) but also an atument.

 

If some one realty dose not understand this and it seems a lot of the ppl who use the forms do not see to get it that the ppl here are meme in them self.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

The class has been nerfed in every update for the last 5 years. There has been actively movement from the devs. to keep any powerful boon away from the class as well as strong condis unblockable boon strips and condi conversion even though its a jack of all triads class with out the ability to do every thing.

 

Every thing that not ele is overturned at a point you have to ask your self if its just that ele is under-powered and not every thing else is overpowered.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Mist

 

Its 5 target and ele is not the only class with an healing effect like this but the other classes are only locked into taking a trait where ele is locked into taking a trait line (and trait if they want it to be worth something) but also an atument.

 

If some one realty dose not understand this and it seems a lot of the ppl who use the forms do not see to get it that the ppl here are meme in them self.

It's up to 13 people if you are in your own subgroup. If you ever play StM chrono or boon chrono it worked the same way.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Jski.6180]

28 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's up to 13 people if you are in your own subgroup. If you ever play StM chrono or boon chrono it worked the same way.

O i see you mean by moving arone during a fight there a lot of effects that work that way though i am not sure if you can call soothing mist a good class only effect. That the thing about this ele as a class could be removed form the game with out any real consequence because ele has nothing of its own and even for being a jack of all triads class it has some massive holes in its kit. I am not saying ele cant do any thing in a fight but its hard to see a good reason to play it over a lot of chose in the game. 

 

I mostly play wvw and i know that game type more then any other i am doing EVERY THING to find a good build and its all coming up short. After the DH update burst dmg on the move is soo much better then any thing weaver call pull off and scraper (all be it an on going thing that scraper has been better then tempest for some time now) effectively destroys any need for the tempest classes. Core ele is non existing. There is somthing very wrong with this update of balancing the last update of balancing and the one befor that etc.. for the ele class and there is no way "We feel that the elementalist has been in a very good place since the July 2020 balance update. Both Tempests and Weavers have effective high damage power and condition damage builds available, while the Tempest is also powerful in a support role." is even close to a true statement.

[Savach.7219]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:26 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Ele is so weak...
42K benchmark incoming

I do not understand why such tests. there are no such hitboxes in the game ¯\_O_/¯

Throw a video of the squad waiting for Ele to summon all the elementals😁

and let's not forget that this is a golem, little realism

Edited May 23, 2021 by Savach.7219

[WindBlade.8749]

19 minutes ago, Savach.7219 said:

I do not understand why such tests. there are no such hitboxes in the game ¯\_O_/¯

Throw a video of the squad waiting for Ele to summon all the elementals😁

and let's not forget that this is a golem, little realism

but but .. my 1m30s precast, why nobody want me to do it.

[Savach.7219]

because it is a pain for the group

you will not hand over the block like a fb, you will not shrink the mobs like a chrono, your dps will fall at the slightest stirring, maybe even with you

[Bristingr.5034]

On 5/9/2021 at 11:45 AM, WindBlade.8749 said:

ele can be remove from this game without any real consequence.

This is a funny way to spell Thief.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Bristingr.5034

[Jski.6180]

5 minutes ago, Bristingr.5034 said:

This is a funny way to spell Thief.

Not in wvw! But ya they did kind of just remove thf in pve.

[WindBlade.8749]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Not in wvw! But ya they did kind of just remove thf in pve.

45k rota deadeye (ok it's just one and it's don't work in all raids fight but it's way more needed than any ele build) and it's also meta in fractals cms