Cyryllic ingame?

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 minute ago, Malitias.8453 said:

You're not responding to the argument I made, so I assume you agree with the point I made about the accessibility outweighing the potential of using the alphabet in a bad way.

 

Anything you do to improve a product has a cost. What's your point?

The cost statement was my response to your post.  

[Malitias.8453]

1 minute ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

The cost statement was my response to your post.  

..Are you against it for the sake of against it? 🤨

[Chaba.5410]

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes but since none of the languages we have now use cyrillic why should it be added there is no reason to do so.

This is the most logical explanation for why there's no Cyrillic character support.

 

We don't know how character set support was implemented in the game engine.  Based on user experience with the growth of Unicode encoding and rather complete Unicode fonts within the last 10 years, it's somewhat of a mystery as to why it hasn't changed.

[Ayrilana.1396]

2 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Are you saying your words "languages not supported" is not about language support?  It seems you are confused about the difference between language support and character set support.  Hopefully my example below will illustrate why.

 

This forum utilizes UTF-8 encoding.  You are reading it from a browser that most likely uses a font that supports a huge variety of character sets.  ᛊᛟ ᛁ ᚲᚨᚾ ᚹᚱᛁᛏᛖ ᛖᚾᚷᛚᛁᛊᚺ ᚢᛊᛁᚾ ᚱᚢᚾᛖᛊ (So I can write English using runes.  At least on my browser I see it displayed in runes.)  This is no different from someone using latin characters to write potentially offensive chat in a language not supported.  The character set doesn't obstruct offensive chat nor "make it worse".  It's not a "potential issue".

 

Besides, if you don't understand the unsupported language, how exactly are you affected by offensive chat when you can't even understand what was said?

Characters are formed together to create a language.  There are costs associated with having additional languages available in chat. 
 

“Because it doesn’t affect you” isn’t a valid argument.  I can apply that towards almost any request in the game. 

[Ayrilana.1396]

5 minutes ago, Malitias.8453 said:

..Are you against it for the sake of against it? 🤨

No. I’m not for or against it. I’m just stating one potential reason why your request is unlikely to be applied to the game. 

[Chaba.5410]

12 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

Characters are formed together to create a language.  There are costs associated with having additional languages available in chat. 
 

“Because it doesn’t affect you” isn’t a valid argument.  I can apply that towards almost any request in the game. 

No, that's not at all how language is created.  Writing systems change all the time, even today.  The only costs are programmatic and the reason I mention Unicode is because it was purposely designed to remove the costs of adding multiple character sets to programs.

 

Your opinions come off as extremely uninformed.  I wish you had better knowledge of linguistics and multilingual programming before engaging in conversation with people who do have experience in these subjects.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

Just of additional note, GW1 had Cyrillic support.

[Raizel.1839]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:06 PM, Ayrilana.1396 said:

One potential issue is that players could hide potentially offensive chat behind languages not supported by the Anet team.

You can already do this with the languages not supported in-game but which use latin-text (like most central europe languages).

[Ayrilana.1396]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

No, that's not at all how language is created.  Writing systems change all the time, even today.  The only costs are programmatic and the reason I mention Unicode is because it was purposely designed to remove the costs of adding multiple character sets to programs.

 

Your opinions come off as extremely uninformed.  I wish you had better knowledge of linguistics and multilingual programming before engaging in conversation with people who do have experience in these subjects.

 

 

 

Umm... what I stated about a language is true.  It is comprised of characters whether it be multiple to represent a word or the word itself. It can even go beyond that.  All of this conveys a means to communicate a language in a written form.  So before you claim me to be misinformed, make sure that you are not.

 

1 hour ago, Raizel.1839 said:

You can already do this with the languages not supported in-game but which use latin-text (like most central europe languages).

 

What you said has already been posted in response to my post and has been addressed.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Chaba.5410]

24 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

Umm... what I stated about a language is true.  It is comprised of characters whether it be multiple to represent a word or the word itself. It can even go beyond that.  All of this conveys a means to communicate a language in a written form.  So before you claim me to be misinformed, make sure that you are not.

 

Huh?

 

What you're attempting to describe is called a writing system.  Graphemes are not language nor do they create language.  They are only small units of symbols used to encode/decode language (often called character sets in computer lingo).  Written forms, as I stated, change all the time.  There also exist languages without writing systems as well as languages with multiple writing systems.

 

Language is created from human psychology and evolution, the details of which linguists are still trying to piece together.  It's an unanswered question.  Please, stop confusing character sets with language.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Huh?

 

What you're attempting to describe is called a writing system.  Graphemes are not language nor do they create language.  They are only small units of symbols used to encode/decode language (often called character sets in computer lingo).  Written forms, as I stated, change all the time.  There also exist languages without writing systems as well as languages with multiple writing systems.

 

Language is created from human psychology and evolution, the details of which linguists are still trying to piece together.  It's an unanswered question.  Please, stop confusing character sets with language.

 

Hence the statement in my post that you quoted that said:  "All of this conveys a means to communicate a language in a written form."  Language is seen as both written and verbal with it usually complementing the verbal.  As this thread is about text chat, I'm obviously referring to the written aspect.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[fatihso.7258]

Seems no one mentioned it yet but this was discussed before and the given reason they don't actually add non-latin letters/alphabets to game was because game does not support those special bytes/unicodes and if they bother implementing, it can break alot of things same as the ui concerns that caused them to undo making cc colors purple on tooltip which was part of last balance patch notes.

Edited May 25, 2021 by fatihso.7258

[Clex Mix.7624]

On 5/23/2021 at 4:31 AM, CyberMan.5609 said:

Im russian-speaking user, im playing GW2, im in 2 clans - russian and ukraininan, i need to use engllish keyboard layout to chat wiuth mny clanmates.

 

All we know, that you'll not add russian localization to the game, but can you make life of russian players easier - by adding ability to write cyryllic symbols to the chat?

It’s a bit disappointing I’m sure that Anet probably won’t do it, and I know it’s kind of a crap thing to say... but luckily discord it’s a great communication tool for guilds outside of the game, not sure as to what languages discord supports. But hopefully at least it’s a little better than the in-game chat.

[Clex Mix.7624]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:06 AM, Ayrilana.1396 said:

One potential issue is that players could hide potentially offensive chat behind languages not supported by the Anet team.

Honestly even if that was a concern, sometimes people just need to take advantage of the block function. When online gaming really started to take off that was almost always overlooked, and it wasn’t like it destroyed communities. People then knew how to just ignore people. 

 

Im not excusing people acting in such a way, but for people to say that it will some how effect them in a negative way to see someone being an kitten, it’s a bit hyperbolic. I understand that people let younger audiences play online games, and that’s fine, as long as they are proactive in limiting what sort of interactions they can have with others. At some point a parent has no finger to point at anyone but themselves if a kid sees certain things in chat on any game.

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

Hence the statement in my post that you quoted that said:  "All of this conveys a means to communicate a language in a written form."  Language is seen as both written and verbal with it usually complementing the verbal.  As this thread is about text chat, I'm obviously referring to the written aspect.

This thread is about support for the input and display of different writing systems.  That's why the OP wrote "cyrillic" and not "russian".  He's asking for a QoL change with the input and display of characters.  Russian can also be written without cyrillic, but those localized systems aren't always set up to do so by default.  Again, please stop confusing writing systems with language.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

Seems no one mentioned it yet but this was discussed before and the given reason they don't actually add non-latin letters/alphabets to game was because game does not support those special bytes/unicodes and if they bother implementing, it can break alot of things same as the ui concerns that caused them to undo making cc colors purple on tooltip which was part of last balance patch notes.

 

I'm curious as to the details of this past discussion with a given reason that you reference.  Do you remember the link?

 

Given that the chat supports Chinese and Korean writing systems and the fact that you can switch your Windows keyboard to Russian and the trading post search window properly displays the typed Cyrillic, I suspect the reason has something to do specifically with the secondary chat/login server system or the font used for the chat window and not the lack of Unicode within the game itself.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

This thread is about support for the input and display of different writing systems.  That's why the OP wrote "cyrillic" and not "russian".  He's asking for a QoL change with the input and display of characters.  Russian can also be written without cyrillic, but those localized systems aren't always set up to do so by default.  Again, please stop confusing writing systems with language.

I’m not. 

[Kondor.2904]

Even though the likelyhoof of such QoL happening is low, It would be great to have at least an official response from the dev team as to why it can/cannot be implemented now/at all, considering this has been a reoccuring discussion topic for ages, and has never been addressed properly, despite the effort numerous player communities put into getting the devs attention. 

And yet we get like 7 paragraphs of text addressing something like the in-game food naming, which, i guess, is a more urgent issue. 

[Astralporing.1957]

17 hours ago, Kondor.2904 said:

The same reason why gemstore supports it 🙂 

Gemstore is browser-based, and uses a separate engine (probably not an in-house one). That engine supports unicode, so it allows for cyrillic.

 

16 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

This is the most logical explanation for why there's no Cyrillic character support.

 

We don't know how character set support was implemented in the game engine.  Based on user experience with the growth of Unicode encoding and rather complete Unicode fonts within the last 10 years, it's somewhat of a mystery as to why it hasn't changed.

The GW2 engine is based on gw1 engine, which was created before using unicode in everything became a golden standard. While GW1 supported a much wider range of language fonts than gw2 (see below about that), it did not support the whole unicode range, so it's extremely likely they were using some other solution for this.

 

 

16 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Just of additional note, GW1 had Cyrillic support.

Because it had support for way more languages, and russian was one of those languages. It basically supported fonts for all the languages that were an option you could choose in game language option. Notice, btw, that rendering of those characters was not game-based but depended on the system you were running. At some point, on one of my older computers, i was seeing a lot of square boxes in chat and names (in places where my friends saw what was really there just fine).

 

Gw2 decided to go for much more modest language choice selection, and, apparently, did not add unicode support to old engine either. And, while i can't be 100% sure, i think they did switch to in-game rendering of fonts as well - otherwise at least some of different not-supported language characters could be still used.

 

If i am right, they are running with a set of choices that is not so easy to improve on without some significant effort investment.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Astralporing.1957