Purity of Purpose : 2s ICD per target

[Strider Pj.2193]

3 hours ago, God.2708 said:

I mean, isn't that the reason this nerf is poorly placed?

Scrappers cleanse at ~the strength of tempests and firebrands(when specced to cleanse). But neither of those can give superspeed, stealth, or heal at close to that level. Meanwhile power scrappers can also give superspeed and stealth at similar levels, but nothing else can. So unless you give others ample superspeed and/or stealth (in a meaningful manner) or drastically nerf the scrappers ability to do those things, scrapper will still be a primary party slot. Nerfing PoP is just crowd pleasing and does nothing to impact play in any way except make it look like you're 'nerfing' boon balls. But no intelligent zerg relied on RNG boons to survive anyway.

Or.., and I am not even slightly convinced this is it, they decided to actually just ‘tweak’ some builds with the intent on watching its impact on composition and game play, with follow on tweaks accordingly.,

 

of course, that comes with the assumption that they are actually going to pay attention to the impact of their changes……

 

or have a reliable way to get data other than relying on the loudest segment in the forums..

[Sugar Min.5834]

17 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Yes the trait itself does not cleanse, it only apply conversion instead cleansing. 

 

The devs took their sweet time with this one thou, and i don't think superspeed will be enough to keep scrapper in squad if the nerfs seems to be very harsh thou . 

Oh thanks for the reply. but i am still not really clear on this.

 

For example, a skill that pulse condi cleanse every second for 2 seconds. the first pulse will convert condis to boons, the second does not convert but does it cleanse? Or it does nothing because of the two seconds ICD.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Mil.3562

[XenesisII.1540]

21 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

Oh thanks for the reply. but i am still not really clear on this.

 

For example, a skill that pulse condi cleanse every second for 2 seconds. the first pulse will convert condis to boons, the second does not convert but does it cleanse? Or it does nothing because of the two seconds ICD.

 

It's worded specifically as per target, so I'm assuming you cannot hit the same target and get the convert.

So if the second pulse hits a different target from the first pulse it will proc the convert.

The ICD is on the purity of purpose trait not on the cleansing skills, so you will always get the cleanses at the very least.

 

[Sugar Min.5834]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

It's worded specifically as per target, so I'm assuming you cannot hit the same target and get the convert.

So if the second pulse hits a different target from the first pulse it will proc the convert.

The ICD is on the purity of purpose trait not on the cleansing skills, so you will always get the cleanses at the very least.

 

OK i think i got it.

Referring to my previous example again, the two pulses;  one converts, the other cleanses. Thanks 🙂

[Lazze.9870]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:16 PM, Zikory.6871 said:

It won't. 50/50 have so many people it doesn't matter and 25-35 never relied on it. 

 

It will. When you're in a guild group of 20-25 and facing some fat group that stands still and mitigate everything. It happens. I'm not saying it is common, but I can name a guild or two on a certain EU server that are carried by the ability to "turtle up" when they significantly outnumber you. Fewer boons to corrupt will only help.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[nthmetal.9652]

On 6/12/2021 at 9:52 AM, Voltekka.2375 said:

Scourge "considerable damage". Huh. No.

Strips have been nerfed over and over. Nerf em even more. Huh.

irrelevant, because we have a status, quo how things are now. It does not matter what was before.

 

And luckily, we have ArcDPS to prove our point ...

https://imgur.com/a/ToLnhRV

 

In the top 10 damage, there are no spellbreakers, but there are already 3 scourges. In the top 20 there are still no spellbreakers, but even more scourges

In the strips, yes, spellbreakers can sometimes keep up, but not outstrip. There's a considerable gap between a good scourge and even a good spellbreaker. Exceptions might be, when you manage to constantly meleepush your enemies.

 

And don't worry, I can back this up with tons more logs. The exact details will shift, the ratios will not.

And while I have to anonymize the data, so you'll have to trust me on that, I can tell you that the scourges, who do the damage and the scourges who do the strips are not separate entities. They are the very same players and scourges. Maybe the best-stripping scourge does not also do the highest damage, but they are up there. and yes. The damage is considerable!

 

And it's not only scourge, who has been nerfed. Warriors have also been nerfed hard, but this is not the topic. The topic are boons, boon-remobal, boon-application, boon-corruption, and condi-conversion.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[Zikory.6871]

1 hour ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

irrelevant, because we have a status, quo how things are now. It does not matter what was before.

 

And luckily, we have ArcDPS to prove our point ...

https://imgur.com/a/ToLnhRV

 

In the top 10 damage, there are no spellbreakers, but there are already 3 scourges. In the top 20 there are still no spellbreakers, but even more scourges

In the strips, yes, spellbreakers can sometimes keep up, but not outstrip. There's a considerable gap between a good scourge and even a good spellbreaker. Exceptions might be, when you manage to constantly meleepush your enemies.

 

And don't worry, I can back this up with tons more logs. The exact details will shift, the ratios will not.

And while I have to anonymize the data, so you'll have to trust me on that, I can tell you that the scourges, who do the damage and the scourges who do the strips are not separate entities. They are the very same players and scourges. Maybe the best-stripping scourge does not also do the highest damage, but they are up there. and yes. The damage is considerable!

 

And it's not only scourge, who has been nerfed. Warriors have also been nerfed hard, but this is not the topic. The topic are boons, boon-remobal, boon-application, boon-corruption, and condi-conversion.

 

 

The spell breakers are support. Easy to tell since they both have 300 cleanses, so you not knowing that makes me question the rest of your argument. 

I'd say your spellbreakers and Chrono are better them most of your scourges by far since they kept up while your group clearly stays at range. Imagine playing around well/shade bombs then calling out spellbreakers that have to struggle to even get in range. 

Solo image of cherry picked logs means nothing. Post the actual links.

[nthmetal.9652]

13 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Solo image of cherry picked logs means nothing. Post the actual links.

due to privary reasons: No. But I can provide more images. no problem. As I said, the image is quite representative, but maybe it is an issue on my server. Feel free to provide contacts, which provide different information. I'd be highly interested on how things go elsewhere.

And I do not doubt your point that Spellbreakers are support, and thus should do no damage. But by that logic, scourge should fall into the same category, but somehow there is a huge difference.

[Zikory.6871]

7 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

due to privary reasons: No. But I can provide more images. no problem. As I said, the image is quite representative, but maybe it is an issue on my server. Feel free to provide contacts, which provide different information. I'd be highly interested on how things go elsewhere.

And I do not doubt your point that Spellbreakers are support, and thus should do no damage. But by that logic, scourge should fall into the same category, but somehow there is a huge difference.

I don't follow how they'd be the same category. Support spellbreaker is generally minstrels and Hammer + Warhorn, a melee class... Scourges have damage stats, Wells, shades, Staff? Axe, scepter, dagger?, focus? all ranged. 

It's not a server issue, its just where your group puts its focus. Scourge, spellbreaker, chrono can all strip a lot of boons, they all have different roles. I prefer melee brawls so Spellbreaker and Chrono generally out strip scourge but that's not always going to be the case. Strong CC in a well bomb but not in a dome, scourge did more. Sit at range so Scourge can pressure, spellbreaker can't abuse break enchantment (if they use it) or Hammer (absorption sigil). 

Just saying, those log specifically don't prove scourge is better then spellbreaker. They different. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

Oops wrong thread.

Edited June 15, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480
wrong thread

[derlistigeuhu.1658]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:49 AM, nthmetal.9652 said:

and yet - AND YET, if you play WvW: Scourges easily outstrip everyone else. AND they corrupt when they strip. And when they corrupt, their corrupt is not in an ICD. AND they deal considerable damage. Which cannot be reflected, due to being AoE. And since the AoEs pulse, and thus are persistent, they provide area denial. And they make chill and fear, so provide soft CC.

And they do most of that at range.

I am not even thinking about the application of barrier, which they also can bring, when discussing scourge balance.

 

They might have nerfed it. But not nearly enough to call this anywhere near balanced.

 

Scourge outstrips nothing. Chrono > Scourge.

Scourge strips can be avoided and depend on good positioning and the Scourge having build up enough Life Force, while Purity of Purpose is a passive effect is provided by having any gyro active.

 

And it's funny talking about barrier. Ever played Scrapper and used Bulwark Gyro? Or the traits around explosive Entrance? Or using a hammer on scrapper?

 

Scrapper is one of the most broken things out there right now.