Hammer related question

[Axl.8924]

So i seen some complaints about it, but considering some moves don't even have stun can't they return some damage to it?

the 1 stun it has  if its a problem they could always increase slightly CD no and return more dmg?

 

Also if its true what i heard about sustain I've seen scrapper do a lot of dmg at least ajax did decent damage over time while having sustain on scrapper, so it seems only fair if you have some escapes or sustain to be viable in SPVP as a roamer type.

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The problem with hammer on Warrior is its purely a CC weapon, unlike on Guard/Rev/Scrapper, which is why it sees even less play than those.

 

Its not that they need to return damage to the CC skills, its that they need to just make the weapon do massive base damage to compensate. The #1 chain, #2 and #3 skills need their damage radically increased for the lack of damage on #4, #5 and the F1 skills.

 

There's almost no other purely CC weapons in the game, so I think the devs didn't really consider that when making the changes. But I think the other hammers all have similar problems just to a lesser extent and all need their base damage heavily buffed; the weapon type is almost completely unseen in competitive at this point outside of Scrappers.

 

They should be the highest autohit weapon in the game, IMO.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Axl.8924]

But uh executioner scythe has Stun which is something warrs have a lot of too and it does massive damage, so why can''t warr? unless its stun access is greater than reaper.

 

I'd also agree to giving buffs to non stun moves and maybe if needed give higher icd on stuns.

Maybe on earthshaker they can change the stun to cripple? Something less of a hard cc and increase dmg.

 

Having a stun i can see on your main repeatable is really strong, and usually stuns have a CD and then can increase the dmg.

 

Maybe they can increase fierce blow cd to i dunno 10-15 20 seconds? something reasonable.

 

maybe staggering blow cd increase Oh and rupturing smash will prob need higher cd, something like 10 sec cd.

Then increase damage on 1 chains maybe add a finisher somewhere? i am not seeing something listed as finisher.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

But uh executioner scythe has Stun which is something warrs have a lot of too and it does massive damage, so why can''t warr? unless its stun access is greater than reaper.

Executioner's Strike only does damage in PvE.

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

I'd also agree to giving buffs to non stun moves and maybe if needed give higher icd on stuns.

I wouldn't complain, but then you'd see people QQ on the forums about Fierce Blow one-shotting them after eating backbreaker.

 

Don't get me wrong Fierce Blow could use a 20% increase in damage in competitive play, but what Hammer needs in this meta is for Body Blow to be updated to deal strike damage instead of a single stack of bleed.

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Maybe on earthshaker they can change the stun to cripple? Something less of a hard cc and increase dmg.

 

Having a stun i can see on your main repeatable is really strong, and usually stuns have a CD and then can increase the dmg.

 

Maybe they can increase fierce blow cd to i dunno 10-15 20 seconds? something reasonable.

None of those would be reasonable its the second skill on the bar, those type of skills are supposed to be the workhorse DPS skill of the 2h/MH weapon. Increasing that CD would further destroy the weapon.

4 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

maybe staggering blow cd increase Oh and rupturing smash will prob need higher cd, something like 10 sec cd.

Then increase damage on 1 chains maybe add a finisher somewhere? i am not seeing something listed as finisher.

If Staggering Blow were a pull instead it would be a better skill even with 0 damage.

 

Earthshaker is a blast finisher and Staggering Blow is a whirl finisher.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

It's not that easy to balance this weapon, it is not a "self dps sustain" weapon, you should play it with an allie or in group and not be able to stun 5 targets every 5sec and do massive damage to benefit the situation.

It's more the fact Warrior is overall in lower/second tier and you need to work independently to not bother allies,  than the weapon sucks.

 

If we want this weapon to sustain more warrior, and so having burst/dps we should ask for a total rework, with less spammable CC/immobilise.

Delete #4, or merg it somewhat with #5. Change F1 for 1sec Daze, and damage per level. etc

[Axl.8924]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Executioner's Strike only does damage in PvE.

I wouldn't complain, but then you'd see people QQ on the forums about Fierce Blow one-shotting them after eating backbreaker.

 

Don't get me wrong Fierce Blow could use a 20% increase in damage in competitive play, but what Hammer needs in this meta is for Body Blow to be updated to deal strike damage instead of a single stack of bleed.

None of those would be reasonable its the second skill on the bar, those type of skills are supposed to be the workhorse DPS skill of the 2h/MH weapon. Increasing that CD would further destroy the weapon.

If Staggering Blow were a pull instead it would be a better skill even with 0 damage.

 

Earthshaker is a blast finisher and Staggering Blow is a whirl finisher.

The problem is that your regular hammer attack the spammable 1 has in its chain a stun, which is problematic because stuns if abused can lock someone in, and people complain about stuns a lot. You would prob hear tons of crying about it.

Heck peeps cried about chill for ages, but at the same time i think warrs still want to have access to being able to stun to get in killing blow.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Axl.8924 said:

The problem is that your regular hammer attack the spammable 1 has in its chain a stun, which is problematic because stuns if abused can lock someone in, and people complain about stuns a lot. You would prob hear tons of crying about it.

There are no stuns in the hammer AA chain, nor do I see anyone mentioning adding one in. Are you confusing it with Rampage whose AA chain ends in a daze?

 

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There are no stuns in the hammer AA chain, nor do I see anyone mentioning adding one in. Are you confusing it with Rampage whose AA chain ends in a daze?

 

 

Nevermind i was looking at the F1 which is a stun.

 

1 hour ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

It's not that easy to balance this weapon, it is not a "self dps sustain" weapon, you should play it with an allie or in group and not be able to stun 5 targets every 5sec and do massive damage to benefit the situation.

It's more the fact Warrior is overall in lower/second tier and you need to work independently to not bother allies,  than the weapon sucks.

 

ICC

Delete #4, or merg it somewhat with #5. Change F1 for 1sec Daze, and damage per level. etc

 

How  many people should then earthshaker hit? 2? 3?

I presume you mean earthshaker(F1) since all the others mention nothing about aoe stun effect on multiple people.

 

If we want this weapon to sustain more warrior, and so having burst/dps we should ask for a total rework, with less spammable CC/immobilise.

 

Also: thats exactly what i want. I want a rework on the amoutn spammable stuns and CC so hammer can be decent with at least some ccs and solid damage for kills in SPVP.

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Axl.8924
For making sure my point is clear and to make sure the person i'm quoting knows what i am quoting.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Nevermind i was looking at the F1 which is a stun.

 

 

How  many people should then earthshaker hit? 2? 3?

5. Its an AoE.

8 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

I presume you mean earthshaker(F1) since all the others mention nothing about aoe stun effect on multiple people.

 

If we want this weapon to sustain more warrior, and so having burst/dps we should ask for a total rework, with less spammable CC/immobilise.

 

Also: thats exactly what i want. I want a rework on the amoutn spammable stuns and CC so hammer can be decent with at least some ccs and solid damage for kills in SPVP.

 

What hammer needs is for Body Blow to be reworked to deal strike damage. That plus Fierce Blow would generate a large amount of weakness to protect you and your team, which is in and of itself sustain through damage mitigation.

 

If you need more than that then add onto a trait that striking a CC'd foe gives some small amount of healing with an ICD per foe CC'd.

[Axl.8924]

40 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

5. Its an AoE.

What hammer needs is for Body Blow to be reworked to deal strike damage. That plus Fierce Blow would generate a large amount of weakness to protect you and your team, which is in and of itself sustain through damage mitigation.

 

If you need more than that then add onto a trait that striking a CC'd foe gives some small amount of healing with an ICD per foe CC'd.

If you mean similar to necro axe i'd agree that would be a good idea.

There are prob also kits that need reworked too and possibly lines.

 

 

[Doomfrost.5728]

I would much prefer an "on interrupt do x amount of damage" to some of it's cc abilities. Give some sort of reward for actually reading your opponent's actions.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Doomfrost.5728 said:

I would much prefer an "on interrupt do x amount of damage" to some of it's cc abilities. Give some sort of reward for actually reading your opponent's actions.

Its called Body Blow, and it applies 1 stack of bleed. Join me in my crusade it getting the devs to turn it into strike damage instead.

[Axl.8924]

19 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Its called Body Blow, and it applies 1 stack of bleed. Join me in my crusade it getting the devs to turn it into strike damage instead.

strike damage and weakness would be nice for ability to do lotsa dmg?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

33 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

strike damage and weakness would be nice for ability to do lotsa dmg?

It should not be a whole lot of damage in competitive play. Something like 1-2k on a crit depending on the build. 2k on full Berserker/dps runes in sPvP for instance.

[Axl.8924]

So if hammer could do 2-4k you would be viable?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

So if hammer could do 2-4k you would be viable?

On the Hard CCs? It would be more viable certainly. There would still be issues with Backbreaker having to large of a tell, but that is partially mitigated by quickness.

 

The only other thing that I can think of functionally that can help Hammer without a major rework is to let Leg Specialist apply immobilize on multiple targets. That way Hammer Shock becomes an AoE immob.

 

But beyond that you get into more radical changes like turning Staggering Blow into a pull or 0 distance launch.

[Caedmon.6798]

Loved running hamm warri in wvw also when roaming,when they nerfed the 0 dmg on cc it got completely destroyed. Why play something that doesnt do dmg on most of it skills,you dont always have a burst rdy on your swap neither. Its a shame they killed it. It could alrdy be hard enough in roam situations to land a cc spike with all the stabi and blocks around. Now you dont do any damage on your first making you spamm 1111 for the meanwhile untill you can swap,and no damage on a Burst,are you for real ? . Its a dumb and lazy approach that should have been changed spec to spec instead of nerfing all cc dmg across the board ( But somehow allowing fear to still do damage).

Edited June 27, 2021 by Caedmon.6798

[Fang.8291]

I'll just want to see some damage numbers again on F1. Remove the stunpart or whatever it just feels bad for everyone to use F1 it's not satisfying for the warr nor for the stunned target. Allowing F1 to have damage would make the Berserker Hammer F1 fun to use as well and open up more build variety. At least that's my opinion and I die on the hill that Hammer F1 should deal massive damage on full adrenaline.

[Ratnoon.4251]

On 7/4/2021 at 4:37 AM, Tuchanka.5148 said:

I'll just want to see some damage numbers again on F1. Remove the stunpart or whatever it just feels bad for everyone to use F1 it's not satisfying for the warr nor for the stunned target. Allowing F1 to have damage would make the Berserker Hammer F1 fun to use as well and open up more build variety. At least that's my opinion and I die on the hill that Hammer F1 should deal massive damage on full adrenaline.

Yeah, just make Hammer F1 be like Arcing Slice. 

[Apheleion.8572]

I know this post is a little older but I just found it, I think cull the weak from the defense tree should be merged with body blow in the strength tree and remove the bleed from body blow. The revenant already has this exact trait with Dwarven Battle Training.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

24 minutes ago, Apheleion.8572 said:

I know this post is a little older but I just found it, I think cull the weak from the defense tree should be merged with body blow in the strength tree and remove the bleed from body blow. The revenant already has this exact trait with Dwarven Battle Training.

What a lot of us have suggested is for Body Blow to do strike damage instead of the bleed, since that would let hammer do damage in competitive play again. As that trait is right now though that bleed does function as a cover condition so that the weakness is harder to cleanse in competitive play, though you'd really have to bring some other condis from sigils to really cover it properly.

[ens.9854]

Buffing warrior CC is playing with fire. We already have meme perma CC 1v1 build.. don't need that nonsense becoming viable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, ens.9854 said:

Buffing warrior CC is playing with fire. We already have meme perma CC 1v1 build.. don't need that nonsense becoming viable.

If we really wanted to play with fire we'd turn the bleed on Body Blow into burning now wouldn't we.

[Vancho.8750]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:39 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If we really wanted to play with fire we'd turn the bleed on Body Blow into burning now wouldn't we.

Nah nah don't be so quick with the OP stuff, just make it slap people with slow, cripple, weakness, confusion and bleeding or at least some synergy with other traits that proc off when you apply that so warrior has some kitten condi build like thief, ranger, mesemer or necro where it overloads you with the whole set of the conditions on a random graze attack. Basically the only reason warrior doesn't have good condi build for pvp is that it can't overload people with kitten conditions. 
Then again I remember the whining when people got their nickers in bunch from mace zerker, cause single target telegraphed skill is too OP, its only allowed on pulsing AoE circles. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You're right @Vancho.8750, burn, bleed, poison, confusion, torment, and weakness it is then. 5 stacks each because why not right?