Defending needs nerfs

[Aeolus.3615]

21 minutes ago, God.2708 said:

The idea that defending is hard because enemies can hit you on walls is... A fascinating take. There is plenty of avenues to target the enemy at keeps that they can't retaliate very well or at all. The defender has a mobility advantage in the form of portals the enemy can't access, and so is free to perform hit and runs with almost no drawback.

 

Taking an objective that is defended by an equal number is nigh impossible, it's not designed that way. That's why there's a third server, to force decisions and potentially break up the mono blob that would be unbreakable otherwise when holed up inside the structure.

 

Generally it takes ~3x the offensive power as defensive power to take a structure. That's a fine place for things to be at. If you're struggling to take things it's not because defense is OP or to hard, it's because you're willingly engaging the enemy on bad terms and suffering the consequences.

 

Now the usual recourse to a defending blob is to split and take all their things and so win the PPT game. But this suffers the dual problem of winning not really mattering so it results in an uninteresting form of ktraining, and for groups that are interested in fighting since the PPT doesn't matter they gain no sway over encouraging the enemy to actually engage by doing so. It results in an unfortunate catch-22 that won't get solved by nerfing 'defense' but rather needs to get fixed by making only defending have consequences.

 

 

I think u dont know how to even hit players on wall from an angle that players on walls cant hit u 🙂

U can even hit players on the midle of the towers from outside and their siege 😛 whoever comes to walls insta dies, so yeah its a valid point, players that know how to atack will wipe payers on walls and siege easilly from outside.

Note: even standing inside nearby the stairs u can be pulled, its actually what some groups do when they have enemies repairing inner, they try to pull.

Note2: Walls are there just to delay not to defend on wall.

 

Defending is not hard, and taking structures is not harder.

its just most players expect low effort wins, most players ive seen doesnt even know how to atack, it just works cause tower/keep has no defenders most time.

And from a defense perspective most siege ive seen built is a self kill for its user...

Edited July 22, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[ArchonWing.9480]

A lot of players (as evidenced by many posts), don't know how to play defensive siege either. Properly placed, you should only be getting hit by barrage. Also there's no law that says you have to stay on the siege permanently. You can fire, and get off it.

Granted there are some locations that are awful to defend (mainly desert BL, and also those stupid corner EB towers). But the fact is people can't even hump siege properly, and that's kinda sad lol. And no, I'm not going to teach that.

 

You know, maybe that's why back then people were so uppity about refreshing siege. Not just about cost, but also because people wouldn't know where to rebuild it.

 

Attacking keeps is hard because the opponent has basically unlimited respawns, no thanks to mounts. And this is incredibly annoying meaning you will probably not take a keep with even numbers. However, in most cases  people do that to get fights and farm so the respawns aren't really a negative. I mean if you farm the defenders for 45 minutes, should you really be complaining you didn't get the WXP from taking the thing? Well, okay Keep Capturer.

 

Oh, and folks, learn to give your enemies a little breathing room so they'll actually be willing to

give you content. Please don't give a surprised Pikachu face if you're going to blob people down the moment anyone pokes their head out, that they're not going to want to play with you at all.

Edited July 22, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Fatal.1347]

It was a nice discussion but seems like lot of you guys are just not seeing how WvW has gotten worse over time with all the changes to sieges, upgrade times, gimmicks and combat stats

Lot of you guys are lacking reference point. All I see is dudes eating plain potatoes all his life thinking nothing can taste better.

Summary of what I want is back the balance where smaller groups can take keeps from slightly larger groups granted they're more skilled, organisezd and smarter than defenders. And fix the fact that fighting inside objectives if defenders aren't using their many advantages should be comparable to open field. This way servers would balance themselves overtime and there won't be a stalemate where one server only wins when defending and gets absolutely destroyed outside a keep.

There are too many servers right now that can't possibly provide any fight without bunkering with siege. Even lot of guilds do that. But who can blame them, defending is easy mode and makes you weak overtime right now. Why wield a bow when you can use a gun? Lets make it so that everyone has bows. More fights. Better balance.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Fatal.1347

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Fatal.1347 said:

It was a nice discussion but seems like lot of you guys are just not seeing how WvW has gotten worse over time with all the changes to sieges, upgrade times, gimmicks and combat stats

Lot of you guys are lacking reference point. All I see is dudes eating plain potatoes all his life thinking nothing can taste better.

Summary of what I want is back the balance where smaller groups can take keeps from slightly larger groups granted they're more skilled, organisezd and smarter than defenders. And fix the fact that fighting inside objectives if defenders aren't using their many advantages should be comparable to open field. This way servers would balance themselves overtime and there won't be a stalemate where one server only wins when defending and gets absolutely destroyed outside a keep.

There are too many servers right now that can't possibly provide any fight without bunkering with siege. Even lot of guilds do that. But who can blame them, defending is easy mode and makes you weak overtime right now. Why wield a bow when you can use a gun? Lets make it so that everyone has bows. More fights. Better balance.

 

For my expr every days its like  50+ getting free strutures  with 5 shield gens and 5-7catapults or rams, and 10-20 cant hardly fight that many.

 

Strucutres are way easy for a zerg this size to cap but to hard when its more small scalle.

 

I would say best would be scale strutures according to the enemies atacking, like creating an envent.

 

Still we playes(as in adapt) and Anet need to see how alliances will spread more players arround.

 

 

note: ive seen 30-40 blob failing to take strucutres from 10-15 as well wich is needed to pay atentin here who and why is complaining when stutures are to hard to obtain.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Telgum.6071]

2 hours ago, Fatal.1347 said:

It was a nice discussion but seems like lot of you guys are just not seeing how WvW has gotten worse over time with all the changes to sieges, upgrade times, gimmicks and combat stats

Lot of you guys are lacking reference point. All I see is dudes eating plain potatoes all his life thinking nothing can taste better.

Considering your view of the situation, seems like you are the one lacking the reference point.

[Nitrosiili.5628]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

For my expr every days its like  50+ getting free strutures  with 5 shield gens and 5-7catapults or rams, and 10-20 cant hardly fight that many.

 

Strucutres are way easy for a zerg this size to cap but to hard when its more small scalle.

 

I would say best would be scale strutures according to the enemies atacking, like creating an envent.

 

Still we playes(as in adapt) and Anet need to see how alliances will spread more players arround.

 

 

note: ive seen 30-40 blob failing to take strucutres from 10-15 as well wich is needed to pay atentin here who and why is complaining when stutures are to hard to obtain.

 

Hint. Those are the PPT players who do that. (building many catas with shield gens) Siege is fine imo, but the sheer amount of defensive siege you can build is just ridiculous. *add here cheeky comment about "tactics"*

 

On the other hand it is really hard to get inside objectives in a reasonable time if you dont build many rams or catas.

 

Those same people who build million rams with shield gens usually lose in a fight, because all they know is blob and PPT during night. Then during "normal" hours they hide behind million Ac's etc.