New to GW2, Not to MMOs (First Observations)

[Dreadstone.4815]

Greetings all. Long-time MMO player (EQ, WoW, Rifts, DAOC, among others), but new to GW2. Some thoughts and observations. (Please note, I have not participated in WvW or PvP, except to grab the TP to Lion's Arch with respect to the latter.)

 

The Good:

1) Community. Between mentors, people announcing certain MOBs up, people stopping to rez another player, answering questions in chat, surprisingly nowhere near as elitist as I would've expected for a game of this age. Bad communities kill the newcomer experience, GW2 has (from what I've seen) little to none of that.

2) Crafting. Interesting system, with lots of overlap and interplay.

2a) Gathering. If you had told me six days ago, when I had 750 iron taking up space in my bank and bags, I would be, once again, gathering more iron, I would've said "no way". Boy was I wrong. (Working on my first Legendary)

4) Races . Interesting take. To me, this is more of a post-apocalyptic game, where, sometime in the past, the world "moved on" (To use a Stephen King term). Instead of Dwarves we get Charr (Like to build things, blow things up, drink and fight, not necessarily in that order), Sylvari (Tree-hugging Trees) instead of Elves, Asura (Gnomes), and cold-weather, large humans (Vikings) and vanilla humans. (Human).

5) Classes. Says a lot when other games keep asking for an Engineer class. The flexibility is nice, albeit a bit overwhelming at times for a noob like me.

 

Neutral:

1) Dungeons. Burst, kill, move on. Did a couple of dungeons, and after years of other games, not my cup of tea. No forced 'holy trinity' is fine, but the speed and mechanics heavily favored ranged classes. (more on this in a moment)

2) Open-world bosses. Love the fact that the community pitches in to help. Not a fan of the zerg mentality in some cases.

3) Loot. I get a lot of it. Which is fine, but, most is useless except to burn / disenchant / salvage / sell. In fact I get so much loot that the very act seems to lose its "specialness"

 

Oh Boy

1) Jump coding / Collision detection. Bad. If the solution offered "Get a shrink potion" is the only solution, then we have a problem Houston. Now, GW2's jump coding is nowhere near as bad as SWTOR, but, sometimes it's close. This is magnified by

2) Gliding. Can't dismount in mid-air. Sorry Raptor. Sometimes when jumping the glider will automatically engage, and you miss your spot. This is especially problematic on vistas.

3) Combat. Against Champion MOBs,(as well as dungeon MOBs) that follow the paradigm (Cover the ground in crap and force the players to move), melee classes seem to be heavily penalized. (I have an 80 Ranger and 80 Revanant) .

 

Take care all.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Welcome to Tyria.

 

Try to unlearn the habit of longer/harder presses for jumping means you jump farther.  Not the case in this game.  Just a quick tap will give maximum jump and you will avoid opening the glider. 

 

You can dismount in mid-air, with either the Glider or a flying Mount. 

[Tiilimon.6094]

For group content, it might look like ranged is favored in this game, when it's actually the other way around. There's no trinity, but there's almost always a player in a group who heals and cleanses.

 

Ranged misses out on those heals, cleanses and boons, as almost every player buffs every ally around them constantly with something very useful.

 

Often we just stand in lava, but it doesn't matter as the damage is getting outhealed constantly and someone is turning that burn into aegis :3

[Zephire.8049]

Welcome to Tyria!

 

Some things:

• While ranged is definitely easier in terms of avoiding some mechanics, they also miss out on boons as those typically have a 300-600 range. For any group that's serious about group content, stacking in melee range is required as someone standing away from the group will be lacking a lot of DPS and them surviving mechanics doesn't mean much if the encounter hits the enrage timer or everyone else is dead. Granted the visual noise is an issue in melee range, so you're right just not for the reason you think you are.
• They've tried different difficulties for world bosses and the result was that the harder ones weren't done as much or as successfully as they wanted. Since it's open world, zerg mentality can't be helped and there's a fine balance when it comes to scaling.
• That's common to a lot of MMOs as it serves as a visual indicator that a player got something. It would be easier if you just got copper and materials were automatically deposited, but there's be a lot more people complaining about how they didn't get anything because they weren't paying attention to what was looted. It was actually far worse before Unidentified Gear with some metas requiring you to deal with your bags mid-loot phase.
• Not sure what you mean by bad jumping as I've never had an issue and the issues I've heard from others amounts not liking platforming in anything or connection issues to the GW2 server. The camera can be wonky with larger character models, but that's a camera issue, not a jumping issue.
• Getting over feeling like you need to do more than tap to jump is hard and accidentally deploying a glider can happen. If it happens a lot, I believe there's an option to turn it off.
• There's a mastery to dismount mounts mid-air under the Crystal Champion line. One of the likely reasons why it's not baked in is because Anet wanted the mounts to feel more than just visuals for movement speed and forcing people to commit to being mounted was part of that. There's also a mastery under both the Griffon and Skyscale to mount them mid-air.

 

Depending on where you are and what you're doing, it can be helpful to keep in mind what that area was designed with. For example, core Tyria was made before gliding or mounts were even in the planning phase so everything in them can be done on foot. HOT was made with gliding but not mounts so you can get weird interactions with the map, especially on flying mounts. POF was made with everything in mind but not all the more recent masteries.

 

Also the engine is nearly 20 years old (GW2 uses a highly modifed version of the GW1 engine, which did not include jumping so that may have something to do with jumping feeling off to you) and uses AWS so there can be... issues and lag at times. But even then the game being down for more than 10-15 minutes is a rarity and you've probably noticed that patch days are simply downloading it and getting back on to play, not the game being down for hours at a time.

 

It's not perfect and doesn't click with everybody, but like you said, it's unique and has a good community in-game. Hope you continue to enjoy it!

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

You can dismount in mid-air, with either the Glider or a flying Mount. 

That's not entirely true. You can't just dismount when in mid-air. What you can do however is use a mastery-granted mount skill that will make you jump upward (thus dismounting you in the process). The difference being that, due to it being a skill, it has a cooldown, so you'll need to wait for a while before being able to use it again.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

7 hours ago, Dreadstone.4815 said:

1) Jump coding / Collision detection. Bad. If the solution offered "Get a shrink potion" is the only solution, then we have a problem Houston. Now, GW2's jump coding is nowhere near as bad as SWTOR, but, sometimes it's close. This is magnified by

Play Asura for jumping Puzzle. CD is ok in this game. Much better then in other games.
if you still dying you are doing it wrong or your ping is to high.

 

7 hours ago, Dreadstone.4815 said:

2) Gliding. Can't dismount in mid-air. Sorry Raptor. Sometimes when jumping the glider will automatically engage, and you miss your spot. This is especially problematic on vistas.

you can. its ( i think ) a Mastery.

 

7 hours ago, Dreadstone.4815 said:

3) Combat. Against Champion MOBs,(as well as dungeon MOBs) that follow the paradigm (Cover the ground in crap and force the players to move), melee classes seem to be heavily penalized. (I have an 80 Ranger and 80 Revanant) .

its skill based. imo after Tera its the best Combat System from any MMO. 

 

GW2 has problems. But not the ones you listed.

[ASP.8093]

2 hours ago, Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

Play Asura for jumping Puzzle.

I tend to switch my character to town clothes (any "jumpsuit" type outfit like the Dragon's Watch one will do as well) so I can see their feet better. That's usually enough, at least if you're not playing charr.

 

(The real trick to acing jumping puzzles, if you're bad at them, is to use the Portable Position Rewinder from Sandswept Isle.)

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I think many of us were not great at Jumping Puzzles and the like when we started.  But after months/years of practice, they are often considered easy now (with some notable exceptions). 

[Tiilimon.6094]

Charr has ridiculous hitbox btw, it's the empty space between the models legs. 

I suggest getting any sort of a skin changing tonic that you can jump with if playing this race.

 

 

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

39 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

I tend to switch my character to town clothes (any "jumpsuit" type outfit like the Dragon's Watch one will do as well) so I can see their feet better. That's usually enough, at least if you're not playing charr.

 

(The real trick to acing jumping puzzles, if you're bad at them, is to use the Portable Position Rewinder from Sandswept Isle.)

yes everything is better than a Charr for JP. i love the walk animation, my main in vanilla was a Charr Warrior, but JP arent fun with them. SAB i did all hardmode with the smallest Asura you can create.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I think many of us were not great at Jumping Puzzles and the like when we started.  But after months/years of practice, they are often considered easy now (with some notable exceptions). 

Speak for yourself, LOL!  I still suck at them.   😆

[TheDeafGuy.4519]

15 hours ago, Dreadstone.4815 said:

Greetings all. Long-time MMO player (EQ, WoW, Rifts, DAOC, among others), but new to GW2. Some thoughts and observations. (Please note, I have not participated in WvW or PvP, except to grab the TP to Lion's Arch with respect to the latter.)

 

The Good:

1) Community. Between mentors, people announcing certain MOBs up, people stopping to rez another player, answering questions in chat, surprisingly nowhere near as elitist as I would've expected for a game of this age. Bad communities kill the newcomer experience, GW2 has (from what I've seen) little to none of that.

2) Crafting. Interesting system, with lots of overlap and interplay.

2a) Gathering. If you had told me six days ago, when I had 750 iron taking up space in my bank and bags, I would be, once again, gathering more iron, I would've said "no way". Boy was I wrong. (Working on my first Legendary)

4) Races . Interesting take. To me, this is more of a post-apocalyptic game, where, sometime in the past, the world "moved on" (To use a Stephen King term). Instead of Dwarves we get Charr (Like to build things, blow things up, drink and fight, not necessarily in that order), Sylvari (Tree-hugging Trees) instead of Elves, Asura (Gnomes), and cold-weather, large humans (Vikings) and vanilla humans. (Human).

5) Classes. Says a lot when other games keep asking for an Engineer class. The flexibility is nice, albeit a bit overwhelming at times for a noob like me.

 

Neutral:

1) Dungeons. Burst, kill, move on. Did a couple of dungeons, and after years of other games, not my cup of tea. No forced 'holy trinity' is fine, but the speed and mechanics heavily favored ranged classes. (more on this in a moment)

2) Open-world bosses. Love the fact that the community pitches in to help. Not a fan of the zerg mentality in some cases.

3) Loot. I get a lot of it. Which is fine, but, most is useless except to burn / disenchant / salvage / sell. In fact I get so much loot that the very act seems to lose its "specialness"

 

Oh Boy

1) Jump coding / Collision detection. Bad. If the solution offered "Get a shrink potion" is the only solution, then we have a problem Houston. Now, GW2's jump coding is nowhere near as bad as SWTOR, but, sometimes it's close. This is magnified by

2) Gliding. Can't dismount in mid-air. Sorry Raptor. Sometimes when jumping the glider will automatically engage, and you miss your spot. This is especially problematic on vistas.

3) Combat. Against Champion MOBs,(as well as dungeon MOBs) that follow the paradigm (Cover the ground in crap and force the players to move), melee classes seem to be heavily penalized. (I have an 80 Ranger and 80 Revanant) .

 

Take care all.

Sheeeeeesh.  I'm not going to say you're wrong since it's an opinion.  But I think GW2 has the best jumping /animation of any mmo.  You have a lot of control while jumping.  If you're running full speed and jump you can slow down mid jump if needed.  Unlike WoW where you're stuck in the same speed and projectory.  Can you even jump in BDO? Don't even get me started on New World (NDA).  Just a funny thing to complain about regarding actual issues.

 

Like mentioned before gliding happens only if you hold down space bar which doesn't affect your jump height or anything. If you're complaining about that, that's an easy fix.  Surprised you didn't find a work around as an mmo player.

 

Combat.  This is more of an experience issue.  Once you're able to rotate your camera and still cast abilities , you're able to dance around mobs and bosses much easier as a Melee player, also you can dodge if needed.  Casuals may never get to that point, but they may never need to if they don't do endgame PvE content like fractals and raids.   Thinking the game favors ranged is almost laughable,  but you're new to the game so I understand it's just your insight.

 

Now you good sir,  take care! 🙂

I would maybe invest just a little more into the game or future games to find work around to any issues you have and maybe see if it's just a playstyle change.  I do understand the openworld zerg mentality and dungeon rushing.  If its not your cup of tea, that's totally understandable.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by TheDeafGuy.4519

[ugrakarma.9416]

15 hours ago, Dreadstone.4815 said:

Oh Boy

1) Jump coding / Collision detection. Bad. If the solution offered "Get a shrink potion" is the only solution, then we have a problem Houston. Now, GW2's jump coding is nowhere near as bad as SWTOR, but, sometimes it's close. This is magnified by

2) Gliding. Can't dismount in mid-air. Sorry Raptor. Sometimes when jumping the glider will automatically engage, and you miss your spot. This is especially problematic on vistas.

3) Combat. Against Champion MOBs,(as well as dungeon MOBs) that follow the paradigm (Cover the ground in crap and force the players to move), melee classes seem to be heavily penalized. (I have an 80 Ranger and 80 Revanant) .

 

Take care all.

 

if u dont bother with "challenge" theres gizmos that make core-game jumping trivial, the "teleportations guns", and a mesmer-like portal (prototype rewind position) gizmo.

 

[Redfeather.6401]

Hello Dreadstone. You are very right about the loot. I play multiple mmorpgs and guild wars 2's loot just feels mostly trash drops because of it being all salvage, sell, store. I play elder scrolls online and there is a clear line between vendor trash and valued loot. It is weird how gw2 is just all kind of mush to liquidate.

[Wolfb.7025]

6 hours ago, Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

yes everything is better than a Charr for JP. i love the walk animation, my main in vanilla was a Charr Warrior, but JP arent fun with them. SAB i did all hardmode with the smallest Asura you can create.

 

7 hours ago, Tiilimon.6094 said:

Charr has ridiculous hitbox btw, it's the empty space between the models legs. 

I suggest getting any sort of a skin changing tonic that you can jump with if playing this race.

 

 

 

All races have exactly the same hitbox, only difference are visuals, its just the perception from the player when it comes to the feel of doing juming puzzles with, Charr look bigger hence they feel heavier, slower when running or jump low compared to something smaller like an asura.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

All races have exactly the same hitbox, only difference are visuals

Yes. That's exactly a problem in this case. Basically, Charr hitbox is more narrow than its visuals (so, you can fall while still visually standing on something). Asuras have the opposite problem - sometimes to make a precise jump you need to stand in the air (well, visually - a result of asura hitbox extending outside race visual dimensions).

 

Quote

, its just the perception from the player when it comes to the feel of doing juming puzzles with, Charr look bigger hence they feel heavier, slower when running or jump low compared to something smaller like an asura.

Due to the visuals problems, humans and sylvari are the easiest to "see" where you need to stand/jump. For Charr, Asuras (and partially Norn) you need to get used first to their slightly different dimensions compared to their visuals. Also, Charr and Norn often get into camera problems - because while the hitbox is the same, camera reacts differently for bigger characters. It's not a problem on somewhat more flat surfaces, but within caves, or on cliffs can often result in lower visibility compared to other races. That is the main reason why people advise to use Asuras (or some transformation effect that reduces your size) for JP completion.

 

So, it's not really a case of player perception - unless by it you mean an ability to perceive things.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Eraden.8740]

Yes, you CAN jump off your mount while in mid air. The mastery skill is called "Bond of Faith". It can be found in the "Crystal Champion" mastery track.

[Zephire.8049]

18 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I think many of us were not great at Jumping Puzzles and the like when we started.  But after months/years of practice, they are often considered easy now (with some notable exceptions). 

So true. The first time I tried the Halloween JP, I had to get someone else to do it because I was getting so frustrated. Now I get it in one go usually.

 

Practice goes a long way, especially in GW2 where the barrier to entry is low but it takes a while to build up the muscle memory as its gameplay is so different from other MMOs.

 

And if you play on a norn or charr, you can change the camera setting to be at a default height rather than scaled to your character. Not sure how much it would help since I don't use it, but it's there.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Zephire.8049 said:

And if you play on a norn or charr, you can change the camera setting to be at a default height rather than scaled to your character. Not sure how much it would help since I don't use it, but it's there.

It's not just a matter of camera height, camera distance or fov. All those things can be changed. Your character literally covering the whole screen when in some narrow places however cannot be adjusted for. And "camera collision avoidance" feature can be mitigated only partially. And those two things depend on your actual visuals, not on hitbox size.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Follyfoot.2803]

23 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Speak for yourself, LOL!  I still suck at them.   😆

Jumping puzzles in a game were you jump like a duck on ice in a force 10 gale.  Oh yes, love it.....not.

I did try one in 2017.  Never again.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Follyfoot.2803

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, never done the Vistas sans Mounts? 

Shame, really. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:50 AM, Dreadstone.4815 said:

Neutral:

1) Dungeons. Burst, kill, move on. Did a couple of dungeons, and after years of other games, not my cup of tea. No forced 'holy trinity' is fine, but the speed and mechanics heavily favored ranged classes. (more on this in a moment)

2) Open-world bosses. Love the fact that the community pitches in to help. Not a fan of the zerg mentality in some cases.

3) Loot. I get a lot of it. Which is fine, but, most is useless except to burn / disenchant / salvage / sell. In fact I get so much loot that the very act seems to lose its "specialness"

 

Oh Boy

1) Jump coding / Collision detection. Bad. If the solution offered "Get a shrink potion" is the only solution, then we have a problem Houston. Now, GW2's jump coding is nowhere near as bad as SWTOR, but, sometimes it's close. This is magnified by

2) Gliding. Can't dismount in mid-air. Sorry Raptor. Sometimes when jumping the glider will automatically engage, and you miss your spot. This is especially problematic on vistas.

3) Combat. Against Champion MOBs,(as well as dungeon MOBs) that follow the paradigm (Cover the ground in crap and force the players to move), melee classes seem to be heavily penalized. (I have an 80 Ranger and 80 Revanant) .

 

Take care all.

 

About dungeons, if you don't like the rushing I can advise you to look for someone with whom you get along well and who is at the same level as you (skillwise) or better.
It's okay to rush dungeons and other content for quick loot. But I have done dungeons with a friend for a long time, our way. Often he was healer and blocker, often I was healer and blocker. If you are really good, you can even run dungeons alone.

 

On the subject of loot. Loot in GW2 is handled a bit differently than in other MMOs. You get loot here to salvage it for mats. Exotic weapons you can throw in the mystic toilet in the hope of getting something better out (precurser for legendary weapons) and some exotic armor you can sell but I also mostly just salvage them because gold is your least problem in GW2.

 

On the subject of jumping puzzles. It's all a matter of habit and mindset. I was also totally overwhelmed at the beginning. I was confused by the animation of Asura that they always wag forward and I thought I would fall and panicked. But a button press in this game goes a long way. Jump forward and let go.
After less than a year, jumping puzzles were one of my favorite things about GW2 that I've never experienced in other games.
This is of course a matter of taste, and if it's any comfort to you, these are absolutely optional and even if you need one, a nice mesmer is never far to port you to the end or just help you out if you don't want that cheater feeling.

 

I wish you in any case a lot fun in the game 🙂