TC, stop beating yourselves up.

[Lorebrand.5189]

Hello friends. I'm Lorebrand, the guild leader of a small roaming guild called [LAG]. We recently moved to TC from FC to play with friends we made from [ERP] during the FC / TC link.

 

Some of you seem pretty down on your own community. I've seen people in /map chat complaining a bit lately, and even saw someone in LA complaining about TC wvw for over an hour this week. Granted this isn't most of you, but negativity can be contagious so I thought I'd share some perspective. The TL;DR here is that TC really is a great community, one you should be proud of being a part of. 

 

1) In the 14+ months I've been back in the game, TC was easily the best link server FC was paired with. FC has gone undefeated in T1 twelve weeks in a row, and TC was a large part of that for eight weeks. You guys have a really great community full of people willing to put in work and do what needs to be done. There's very low drama compared to some other servers  (yes, really). TC stood out as a unique experience for us when we linked with you guys.

 

2) If forced to name the top 3 best pugmanders I've seen in WvW, I'd probably have to go with Indo, Able Sentry, and Janifier. Janifier is a national treasure (and probably a robot from the future). This was evident during the FC / TC link when Janifier came in and took over EBG most days and nights for 8 weeks. I don't spend too much time in EBG these days, but if you do, always have supply, stay on tag, build fast, use siege quickly once it's built, play support if your squad is light on support, and feel confident Janifier will take care of the rest.

 

3) FC is a T1 server that is carried by their roamers. They have a few 20ish man guilds that play a few hours a night, but there are no BANE type guilds on FC. It's mostly small roaming guilds and solo artists that get stuff done most hours of the day. The FC and TC communities are very similar in that respect. Not to take anything from FC because they have a lot of talented and experienced players there, but one big difference between TC and FC is that FC has a stronger link server with a higher population and better coverage in off peak hours. Luck of the draw, and this is out of anyone's control. You guys are a lot better than you give yourselves credit for. You'll see the difference when you get paired with a stronger link server.  
 

A final thought: In T1 a lot of guilds server hop because they want to be on "the best server". If FC gets a bad link next round and starts losing, a lot of those guys will stick around because they're FC for life, but a lot of them will move too, and another server will rise to the top. I've seen a lot of guilds come and go over the last year on FC. It's easy to have a strong community when you're  winning in T1, but TC has a strong community when they're losing in T3, and that's a lot more rare and not likely to change with the ebb and flow of server links. Just something to think about.

Besides, who else has a Dolyak parade?

Edited July 5, 2021 by Fubuki.7162
Typo

[displayname.8315]

Whenever I do PvP matches it seems to go most people complain when the team dosen't know what their doing and/or just terrible.  As long as there are no potato's tanking the match everyone usually says GG, win or lose.

[Myror.7521]

@displayname.8315 you noticed he is talk about wvw here. Right?

[Strider Pj.2193]

Good for you!

 

I am happy you are happy to be winning T1.  

[Lorebrand.5189]

I'm most definitely not winning T1 anymore, but I am happy. Thank you. 🙂

I think you missed the part where I said I moved my guild to TC recently. We moved a few weeks back when TC was in T4. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

do tc pugs push with the commander and stay on tag these days? if so footage pls, i've only seen them do that with that one british lad a while back, forget his name.

 

edit

disco was his name. i think briefly kazo zerged it up and pugs stuck to them, pretty sure they were on tc a while back.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Lorebrand.5189]

6 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

do tc pugs push with the commander and stay on tag these days? if so footage pls, i've only seen them do that with that one british lad a while back, forget his name.

 

edit

disco was his name. i think briefly kazo zerged it up and pugs stuck to them, pretty sure they were on tc a while back.

Depends on what you're comparing it to. If you're talking about rounding up every pug on the server up into one giant ball of death ready to take on all comers, I don't think anyone does it more effectively than Indo and I haven't seen anything like that on TC yet.

Most pugs seem to hang out in EBG, where Janifier lives, and the people there seem to follow as well as anything I've seen from FC and the servers they've been linked to over the last year. No real discernible difference except that Janifier is there 24/7 as best as I can tell, only logging off to recharge once a week or so. 😄 

I don't recall seeing a Disco or a Kazo yet, but I'm still pretty new to the server. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

37 minutes ago, Fubuki.7162 said:

Depends on what you're comparing it to. If you're talking about rounding up every pug on the server up into one giant ball of death ready to take on all comers, I don't think anyone does it more effectively than Indo and I haven't seen anything like that on TC yet.

Most pugs seem to hang out in EBG, where Janifier lives, and the people there seem to follow as well as anything I've seen from FC and the servers they've been linked to over the last year. No real discernible difference except that Janifier is there 24/7 as best as I can tell, only logging off to recharge once a week or so. 😄 

I don't recall seeing a Disco or a Kazo yet, but I'm still pretty new to the server. 

they're ancient history. them and maybe 2 others gathered the troops and faced down the blobgate menace, those were the times man. after that there were some attempts but tc seemed like a cloud server for most of the time i played during hot. i used to hate tc cuz of how bad the pugs were but came to realize thats just how it is when there isn't a prolific commander or guild to rally behind.

 

all i'm asking tho is if the pugs get on meta builds and push with the commander instead of clouding and complaining. numbers don't matter. this is the reason i'm hyped for alliances, making the mode guild centric is going to be a great change but i'm worried pugs will still play a pivotal role, and that role is how many useful pugs you can get and win battles.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Lorebrand.5189]

Wait. Are you trying to suggest there are servers where all the pugs just wander around with meta builds, play support, stay on whoever's tagged up and assist all the time and no one ever complains? Please tell us where this magical place is. I think we all want to live there. haha

[SweetPotato.7456]

3 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

they're ancient history. them and maybe 2 others gathered the troops and faced down the blobgate menace, those were the times man. after that there were some attempts but tc seemed like a cloud server for most of the time i played during hot. i used to hate tc cuz of how bad the pugs were but came to realize thats just how it is when there isn't a prolific commander or guild to rally behind.

 

all i'm asking tho is if the pugs get on meta builds and push with the commander instead of clouding and complaining. numbers don't matter. this is the reason i'm hyped for alliances, making the mode guild centric is going to be a great change but i'm worried pugs will still play a pivotal role, and that role is how many useful pugs you can get and win battles.

You are talking about SoS's pug on their commander, that is not TC. 

[XenesisII.1540]

Meh every community is pretty much like that, you got a bunch of small guilds that run around with 10-20 people doing their own thing, you get the usual big mouths that need to hear themselves talking every minute in chat about random garbage, you get the bad apples never happy and blame everyone else for everything going wrong, the bad apples that bad talk the linked server as if their server is the best thing since sliced bread, and the favorite one where the "expert player" that criticizes every commander and their every move but you'll never see them tag up. Just block and move on.

 

As for pug commanders, Indo doesn't really run a pug zerg in the true pug sense anymore, he tends to run a zerg filled with op/tw/ek people, guilds he has run with for many years, then you get maybe the 5-10 that might be new plugins, not like the 30-40 randos other pug commanders are actually running with. He also likes to brag about fighting blobs with 35-40 and basically no green dots/pugs on his side. Good commander sure, pug commander eh not really.

 

So very few actual pug commanders left these days, people either don't want to get run over by guild boon balls following  newbie commanders, or get on voice to run with a group. Some people just want to have fun playing what they want in there, or not be some robot sheep for some idiot commander that runs over bombs without a care cause they saw some boon balling guild do it.

 

Lastly, I like how people complain about pugs, how they don't get on voice, how they don't run meta classes/builds, yet they're more than happy to fight and farm them. If you want to fight organized groups you can go on maps that's not EBG which usually has all the pugs, but you know, most times they actually only want to fight against groups they can win against, seen guilds run from maps after one wipe so many times, pretty sad. Now just imagine if you were stuck fighting a group like Indo's on every map, wonder how long these so called "fighters" would last.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

8 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

You are talking about SoS's pug on their commander, that is not TC. 

what you talkin about? the clouding and not pushing part? that definitely was tc back in the day, the server was completely useless and a meme to every other server. only a few comms/ guilds that rallied the troops had any chance of creating a viable resistance. i have no idea what its like now.

[Lorebrand.5189]

7 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

...Now just imagine if you were stuck fighting a group like Indo's on every map, wonder how long these so called "fighters" would last.

I'm afraid that's the direction they're trying to push the game with Alliances. Just 3 giant 50 man zergs on every map. My guild is purpose built for getting things done while zergs are busy elsewhere. This is usually when we take our keeps / garrison back, or take their stuff. The fights we get into doing this are so much fun this way too. When 5 people jump out of a keep to kill your 3 man and you walk away with a shiny new keep, it's much more rewarding than taking a keep with 35 people, IMO. I really hope alliances doesn't break this aspect of the game.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Fubuki.7162

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, Fubuki.7162 said:

I'm afraid that's the direction they're trying to push the game with Alliances. Just 3 giant 50 man zergs on every map. My guild is purpose built for getting things done while zergs are busy elsewhere. This is usually when we take our keeps / garrison back, or take their stuff. The fights we get into doing this are so much fun this way too. When 5 people jump out of a keep to kill your 3 man and you walk away with a shiny new keep, it's much more rewarding than taking a keep with 35 people, IMO. I really hope alliances doesn't break this aspect of the game.

 

I mean if they really wanted 3 giant zergs on every map every night they could just bring the tiers down another level and certainly NA would have much more packed prime times zones. But then queues become a problem, and there's still a line they need to ride between close to 75% full maps and having 50 people waiting in queue for 2 hours which is a major annoyance even on reset night.

 

One of the benefits of alliance system creating worlds is they should be able to create as much as they need, one recreate could have 9 worlds, the next one if if they get more players playing it could be 15 worlds instead for that two month period. And since the system should be fully automated they could even set the durations of these worlds, two months too long? well maybe they could set one month instead.

 

But I wouldn't even worry about alliances changing the game in that aspect too much, alliances is really just a fancy version of relinks. The real issue will be it's players, as more and more commanders and guilds continue to demanding all players get on voice and run their meta builds. Back in the day pick up raids were a lot easier to do and people had fun playing whatever, eventually it started moving to pressuring people to play meta classes, then get in voice to even get an invite, now do both or get off the map, next it'll be don't bother coming back to wvw without a meta ascended class/build.

 

The boon ball meta is so powerful at this point it's all that's wanted, right down to the pug commander that still stands in one spot getting half their zerg killed because they couldn't be bothered with proper positioning(this alone shows the difference in commanders like Indo), everyone just wants the ball to carry them, they want numbers to mitigate aoe damage instead of actually not being in the aoe.

 

I do somewhat agree about the small group stuff, as I've said many times before, back before HoT my havoc guild use to sneak t3 keeps with 3-5 golems in less than 3mins even with some resistance present, that required a lot of preparation before hand, building and storing golems in a close by spot, sometimes having to calm down maps to get rid of their zergs to another map. It was fun, and felt rewarding and good accomplishing something not many others bothered to do. But at the same time, I feel like keeps shouldn't be capped by a 5 man group, it should require a zerg to take/defend, plenty of smaller objectives for the smaller groups to take. Don't think that game play will be affected too much.

[Lorebrand.5189]

6 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I feel like keeps shouldn't be capped by a 5 man group, it should require a zerg to take/defend, plenty of smaller objectives for the smaller groups to take. 

They would have to greatly change the game mechanics for this to be the case. My 3 - 5 man group takes a few keeps every night, and usually 1 or 2 garrisons a week. I don't really see any reason to require a large group to do something that can be done with 2 or 3 people. Granted if the keeps were well defended we'd be out of a job, but that's the double edged sword aspect of having everyone in a large zerg. You can take whatever you want with 50 people, but you can't defend well if you're all in one spot and the enemy is hitting 4 or 5 locations at the same time. Even if my small team gets wiped by a zerg, one of the other small teams on the map will benefit from it. 

[SweetPotato.7456]

15 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

what you talkin about? the clouding and not pushing part? that definitely was tc back in the day, the server was completely useless and a meme to every other server. only a few comms/ guilds that rallied the troops had any chance of creating a viable resistance. i have no idea what its like now.

So you must think your server so great take 80 men zerg to kill 5 roamers trying to defend their territory and objective, you call that viable? We defend against mega blob servers (which is all the other servers out there) with the minimum amount of players everyday, sometime they have to come at us 3 times before they can take down our keep with a STUPENDOUSLY LARD ZERG, we are more viable then your stupid blob, without which you all just run with your tail tug nicely in between your legs, yes you zergling don't fight 1v1, viable my kitten. Always run or cheat hack into our tower and keep (yes i got video to proof it and reported accordingly)

[Stand The Wall.6987]

8 hours ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

So you must think your server so great take 80 men zerg to kill 5 roamers trying to defend their territory and objective, you call that viable? We defend against mega blob servers (which is all the other servers out there) with the minimum amount of players everyday, sometime they have to come at us 3 times before they can take down our keep with a STUPENDOUSLY LARD ZERG, we are more viable then your stupid blob, without which you all just run with your tail tug nicely in between your legs, yes you zergling don't fight 1v1, viable my kitten. Always run or cheat hack into our tower and keep (yes i got video to proof it and reported accordingly)

LOL what you talkin homie you're off your rocker spoutin supreme nonsense

[SweetPotato.7456]

12 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

LOL what you talkin homie you're off your rocker spoutin supreme nonsense

You started the elitist nonsense first 😛 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by SweetPotato.7456

[Stand The Wall.6987]

1 hour ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

You started the elitist nonsense first 😛 

 

no just stating facts then you got all defensive over something that is ancient history. by the content of your post i think there has been a misinterpretation somewhere.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[knightofmab.2593]

There are a lot of ways to approach this game mode. One of those is based around morale. There are also servers that understand that incredibly well considering that they crush the opponents will to even fight back. lol. The negativity against your own team does get to be pretty silly at times. Frankly the servers who you'd think are all positive vibes also carry the most extreme trolls that a person can imagine, who constantly screw with their own side, wasting supply, doing weird things in chat and carrying on like crazy people. I've even found those folks tagging up before and purposely leading people into zergs over and over. What's more interesting is that it continues to work. 🙂

 

This is a curious thread and I'm now wondering what the alternate path would be. Can't really do much about the folks that just carry on (usually sitting in spawn not doing anything) since its the equivalent to some strange old mystic on the corner talking about the end of days. Drop a coin in their cup and move on. Wait that probably doesn't work anymore. Okay use Stripe or Apple Pay.

[reddie.5861]

why roam to cap stuff? u roam to lure people towards u to create small fights no? keeps are perfect way to keep constant flow off deffenders untill u get over run. u dont cap it xD.

when i saw ur list of top 3 commanders i hope no1 agree's cus then NA is in really bad shape :x

[kash.9213]

On 7/5/2021 at 6:55 PM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

they're ancient history. them and maybe 2 others gathered the troops and faced down the blobgate menace, those were the times man. after that there were some attempts but tc seemed like a cloud server for most of the time i played during hot. i used to hate tc cuz of how bad the pugs were but came to realize thats just how it is when there isn't a prolific commander or guild to rally behind.

 

all i'm asking tho is if the pugs get on meta builds and push with the commander instead of clouding and complaining. numbers don't matter. this is the reason i'm hyped for alliances, making the mode guild centric is going to be a great change but i'm worried pugs will still play a pivotal role, and that role is how many useful pugs you can get and win battles.

If there are no commanders who can work with pugs to run with then there's no problem if people are on off meta builds and cloud or whatever else they need to do, people need to get bags however they can. Pugs and anyone else will drive with you as long as you've shown as a commander that you know how to move with pugs, if people aren't pushing with them, that's a problem the commander needs to work out because they're not showing they can move with different people. If all the commander can do is push and only successfully if with expendable numbers then people know what they'd be in for and of course they'll float nearby but will avoid the Tags core because that's where people keep dying. 

 

If alliances make the game mode guild centric, then we're looking at about a hour maybe for each major time zone to get in some action before it fizzles out. Everything is server by server but in general I see guilds are only as good as the pugs who usually save them after another failed drive where they should have dismantled first instead. You can't be mad at those pugs who didn't face plant into that. You need to worry more about guilds actually talking to each other on a map if they're all raiding there. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by kash.9213

[Stand The Wall.6987]

50 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

If there are no commanders who can work with pugs to run with then there's no problem if people are on off meta builds and cloud or whatever else they need to do, people need to get bags however they can. Pugs and anyone else will drive with you as long as you've shown as a commander that you know how to move with pugs, if people aren't pushing with them, that's a problem the commander needs to work out because they're not showing they can move with different people. If all the commander can do is push and only successfully if with expendable numbers then people know what they'd be in for and of course they'll float nearby but will avoid the Tags core because that's where people keep dying. 

 

If alliances make the game mode guild centric, then we're looking at about a hour maybe for each major time zone to get in some action before it fizzles out. Everything is server by server but in general I see guilds are only as good as the pugs who usually save them after another failed drive where they should have dismantled first instead. You can't be mad at those pugs who didn't face plant into that. You need to worry more about guilds actually talking to each other on a map if they're all raiding there. 

so forgive the pugs that sit around and cloud when the server needs them to meta build up and push... gotcha. servers clouding is why they lose matches, its an effective strategy when you have nothing else but will lose to any competent group. its the pugs fault for not trusting their commander and their mates, thats why they cloud in the first place and why their server loses.

[kash.9213]

4 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

so forgive the pugs that sit around and cloud when the server needs them to meta build up and push... gotcha. servers clouding is why they lose matches, its an effective strategy when you have nothing else but will lose to any competent group. its the pugs fault for not trusting their commander and their mates, thats why they cloud in the first place and why their server loses.

Just because they're not suiciding with a failed drive doesn't mean it's clouding. No one needs you to forgive anything, they just need you to get your kitten together if you're trying to drive a tag around so they don't have to waypoint as often. Most people can read the room and they'll size you up soon enough. If they see you're just going to get a bunch of people wiped over and over they're not going to stand anywhere near your core.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Just because they're not suiciding with a failed drive doesn't mean it's clouding. No one needs you to forgive anything, they just need you to get your kitten together if you're trying to drive a tag around so they don't have to waypoint as often. Most people can read the room and they'll size you up soon enough. If they see you're just going to get a bunch of people wiped over and over they're not going to stand anywhere near your core.

you've lost me. i'm not the one forgiving pugs dude, you are, and now you're using 'you' for the rest of the post lol. i'm not a commander. i get what you're saying tho. pugs don't give randos their trust. problem is, it takes way too long, or the pugs won't give the commander some breathing room to improve. theres nothing wrong with pushing and failing a few times. plus once the comm is labeled as bad, its pretty hard to come out of that. meanwhile, pugs cloud and use the comm and whoever else is dumb enough to push as meat shields so they can spam useless damage on their meme builds. after a few times the comm gets sick of it, logs out or usually switches map and the zerg dies. this is based on the scenario of a known pugmander logging out who usually gets most of their pugs to push, then someone less known tags up and tries to hold it all together.