All aboard the E-spec hype train :)

[Ceryxobitus.3012]

ANet, loving the discussion/debate/frenzy the new silhouette is generating!! Can't wait to see the others 🙂

 

With that said, here are a few thoughts/hopes for what we could see with End of Dragons new elite specs. 

 

Mesmer "Bladedancer"

1. New weapon: Double-bladed dagger/glaive (mid-range, power-based)
2. New mechanic: Shatters replaced with illusionary weaponry that builds up/costs clones
3. New skill type: Stances
4. Personal Note: I'm really hoping for this one!!

 

Warrior "Monk"

1. New weapon: Main and off-hand focus (fist) weapons (melee, power & condition blend)
2. New skill type: Attunements
3. Personal Note: This would be a cool take on the GW1 class and the Warrior-Monk dual classing that we could do back in the day.

 

Ranger "Warden"

1. New weapon: Hammer (melee, power & condition blend)
2. New pets: Crab, turtle
3. New skill type: Wards/Wells
4. Personal Note: The Ranger-Warrior GW1 build was much-loved and seeing this as an e-spec would be awesome.

 

Elementalist "Conjurer"

1. New weapon: Short bow (mid-range, power & condition blend)
2. New skill type: Preparations
3. Personal Note: Who wouldn't want to play an elemental archer class periodically, seems like a no-brainer.

 

Necromancer "Witch hunter"

1. New weapon: Rifle/longbow (long-range, power based)
2. New skill type: Deceptions
3. Personal Note: I struggled with a name for this one, but I like the twist on necro as someone who dapples in necromancy and uses it to hunt evil.

 

Guardian "Exorcist"

1. New weapon: Spear (mid-range, power-based)
2. New virtue type: Rituals
3. New skill type: Phantasms
4. Personal Note: Guardian has flirted with this with spirit weapons and the paragon training in Eye of the North. Would love to see this combination in End of Dragons!

 

Thief "Apothecary"

1. New weapon: Mace (melee, power and condition blend)
2. New skill type: Elixirs
3. Personal Note: The idea of an asura running around, chugging elixirs and dodging like a maniac just seems comical and hilariously fun!

 

Revenant "Runeblade"

1. New weapon: Greatsword
2. New Legendary: Tengu-based
3. New skill type: Glyphs
4. Personal Note: Given all of the demand for a Revenant and greatsword, I'm sure this one would have a few fans. Add in the runic armor looks some armors have and perfection!

 

Engineer "Golemancer"

1. New weapon: Scepter/staff (mid-to-long range, condition based)
2. New kit: Golems
3. New skill type: Commands
4. Personal Note: As my account icon alludes. I've been waiting for this since first playing an asuran character. For the love of magitech, please ANet!

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Personally I'm lamenting their arrival.  It means a whole lot of work on my end.  Aside from getting their weapons and learning how to play each spec, there's something I'm sort of bound by honor to do: baseline DPS rates.

 

It's one of those things that's important for inexperienced players, as well as comparing skill floors between classes to find weaknesses in their design.  Knowing how much damage is done via auto attacking tells you which class is easier to play, which class is more punishing to mess up, as well as which skills hold most of the DPS and what to prioritize when winging it in a fight.  The elites tend not to gather this information, so it falls on me to find it all out.

 

This is no small undertaking.  The balance changes mean I'm going to need to get a baseline for core, HoT, and PoF specs before playing a massive game of inventory shuffle to find out what the EoD specs can do.  I'm going to chomp down on consumables like they're going out of style, too.  It's probably going to take me at least two days of staring at a golem to gather all of this information, as well as write out the topic where I lay it all out and give all of my loquacious comments on it.  My current medical situations has given me a big case of neophobia (ironic, since I'm going to start n00b pug raid commanding this week), and doing all of this is going to cause me pain.  

Edited July 12, 2021 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[MrForz.1953]

23 hours ago, Ceryxobitus.3012 said:

Engineer "Golemancer"

1. New weapon: Scepter/staff (mid-to-long range, condition based)
2. New kit: Golems
3. New skill type: Commands
4. Personal Note: As my account icon alludes. I've been waiting for this since first playing an asuran character. For the love of magitech, please ANet!

 

 

Yes. More AI. Because ranger pets are exemplary. No seriously, you make it seem like you actually hate the class. What's wrong with people pushing that junk lately?

Edited July 12, 2021 by MrForz.1953

[Malos.5723]

38 minutes ago, MrForz.1953 said:

 

Yes. More AI. Because ranger pets are exemplary. No seriously, you make it seem like you actually hate the class. What's wrong with people pushing that junk lately?

Maybe because some people actually like AI classes, myself included and want more options. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its junk

[Dadnir.5038]

4 minutes ago, Malos.5723 said:

Maybe because some people actually like AI classes, myself included and want more options. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its junk

 

I think it's fine for professions that already do well in competitive modes to have AI based spec.  think it's not fine for professions that don't do well in competitive modes, thought. For example, both Guardian and necro can afford to have an AI based e-spec that will be lost for competitive modes as they are quite solid already there. I wouldn't say the same for elementalist or mesmer, thought.

 

AI based specs are interesting as they fullfil a fantasy but they aren't a welcome sight in competitive modes and, while they can have some achievement in small scale fights, they tend to perform poorly in large scale fight.

[MrForz.1953]

29 minutes ago, Malos.5723 said:

Maybe because some people actually like AI classes, myself included and want more options. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its junk

 

17 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

I think it's fine for professions that already do well in competitive modes to have AI based spec.  think it's not fine for professions that don't do well in competitive modes, thought. For example, both Guardian and necro can afford to have an AI based e-spec that will be lost for competitive modes as they are quite solid already there. I wouldn't say the same for elementalist or mesmer, thought.

 

AI based specs are interesting as they fullfil a fantasy but they aren't a welcome sight in competitive modes and, while they can have some achievement in small scale fights, they tend to perform poorly in large scale fight.

 

It doesn't matter, the Engineer already has AI. Toss aside that it's not even Canthan themed, the gyros got turned into wells due to their ground-shattering performance and flavor; and turrets are among the reasons people sign up for just to end up disappointed because they suck. What kind of jerk move would it be to erase an abandoned core aspect with a spec that functions similarily instead of... you know, buffing turrets and leaving room for something else?

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by MrForz.1953

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, Malos.5723 said:

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its junk

 

Doesn't mean it's not junk either. It just means some dislike it while others ignore the flaws of it. Because they do have flaws.

 

The ranger pet is the most flawed and inconsistent mechanic in the game. Hinders dps in pve (hence permamerged soulbeast) and is useless for larger teamfights in competetive modes. In 1v1s can be anything from chasing a target with little reward to suddenly landing a high burst attack to someone not paying attention and turning the entire fight in favor of the ranger. Smokescale being the outlier because it has an easier time sticking to a target.

 

I don't think anyone that dwells into competetive modes want to deal with more AI. I also assume that most people who want more AI based spec are leaning towards the casual pve side (not meant as an offense in any way).

 

Which leads me too this; yes for hammer and wells on ranger (although I want the hammer to be pure power), hopefully with a more consistent twist on the mechanic than what core ranger and druid get so that ranger can compete for roles it currently can't do (pvp/wvw).

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Dadnir.5038]

53 minutes ago, MrForz.1953 said:

What kind of jerk move would it be to erase an abandoned core aspect with a spec that functions similarily instead of... you know, buffing turrets and leaving room for something else?

I think you don't really get my point.

There are professions with thematic that are uniquely suited to get AI based specs. If they are already strong enough in competitive modes, there is no issues in indulging into their thematic and go on with the AI.

 

Also, no matter how much you look at them, there is not much AI involved into engineer's turrets. They are stationnary killable device, that's all. Among them both healing turret and thumper turret are basically wells that tic every 3s but last incredibly long.

[artharon.9276]

everything I read what OP wrote here less believable than this. 

And even if they resurrect monk, it goes to guardian. 

Eod leaks for those interested (spoilers) : Guildwars2 (reddit.com)

 

 

[Malos.5723]

2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Doesn't mean it's not junk either. It just means some dislike it while others ignore the flaws of it. Because they do have flaws.

 

The ranger pet is the most flawed and inconsistent mechanic in the game. Hinders dps in pve (hence permamerged soulbeast) and is useless for larger teamfights in competetive modes. In 1v1s can be anything from chasing a target with little reward to suddenly landing a high burst attack to someone not paying attention and turning the entire fight in favor of the ranger. Smokescale being the outlier because it has an easier time sticking to a target.

 

I don't think anyone that dwells into competetive modes want to deal with more AI. I also assume that most people who want more AI based spec are leaning towards the casual pve side (not meant as an offense in any way).

 

Which leads me too this; yes for hammer and wells on ranger (although I want the hammer to be pure power), hopefully with a more consistent twist on the mechanic than what core ranger and druid get so that ranger can compete for roles it currently can't do (pvp/wvw).

i know ai classes have flaws, ive played tons of them. i also know how funny it is when a "bad ai class" is top/close to top dps in pvp and raids in other games when its decent enough. 

[Kodama.6453]

22 hours ago, Malos.5723 said:

Maybe because some people actually like AI classes, myself included and want more options. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its junk

Great, then play turret engineer.

Engineer already has the AI gameplay, we don't need a second set for this.

 

Additionally, golemancer is pretty lame thematically. It doesn't bring anything new to the table when it comes to lore, since we knew golemancer all the way back to GW1.

 

Flavourwise, it also doubles up on the Asuran aesthetics. We already have holosmith for the Asuran tech elite spec.

 

I personally would enjoy more if we could look into the alchemy theme of engineer more. Plaguedoctor would be my dream elite spec for engineer.

[Malos.5723]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Great, then play turret engineer.

Engineer already has the AI gameplay, we don't need a second set for this.

 

Additionally, golemancer is pretty lame thematically. It doesn't bring anything new to the table when it comes to lore, since we knew golemancer all the way back to GW1.

 

Flavourwise, it also doubles up on the Asuran aesthetics. We already have holosmith for the Asuran tech elite spec.

 

I personally would enjoy more if we could look into the alchemy theme of engineer more. Plaguedoctor would be my dream elite spec for engineer.

turrets are stationary and were nerfed to oblivion because people kept complaining about them
personally I'd rather have steam creatures then golems
there's already an alchemy traitline for engineer and imo plaguedoctor sounds more like a necro elite

[Kodama.6453]

39 minutes ago, Malos.5723 said:

turrets are stationary and were nerfed to oblivion because people kept complaining about them
personally I'd rather have steam creatures then golems
there's already an alchemy traitline for engineer and imo plaguedoctor sounds more like a necro elite

Yeah, they were nerfed into oblivion. And it is pretty likely that the same would happen with new AI types for engineer.

 

Even if gyros had terrible problems with path finding and such, they got nerf after nerf after nerf back then. They used to daze enemies when destructed.... removed. They used to be instant casts, with the exception of blast and shredder gyro (so: the offensive ones)... cast times were added. And so on.

 

People hate fighting AI builds and will complain about them until they are nerfed into inviability. I personally want to avoid this scenario for my main.

 

About plaguedoctor: When it comes to flavour, plaguedoctors are basically a dual profession of engineer and necromancer. It can get approached from both directions, by either mixing necromancer themes into the engineer core (diseases, poisons, death, etc.) or by adding engineer themes to necromancer core (concoctions, gasmasks, etc.).

 

I personally prefer to use engineer as the core and add necromancer themes to it. For me, plaguedoctors are first and foremost people of modern science and medicine, not some magic users who are using the dead bodies of people who died from the plague as their minions.

 

I even thought of a good backstory for this profession, which would tie it nicely into Cantha. 

[bigo.9037]

On 7/13/2021 at 12:15 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

Yeah, they were nerfed into oblivion. And it is pretty likely that the same would happen with new AI types for engineer.

 

Even if gyros had terrible problems with path finding and such, they got nerf after nerf after nerf back then. They used to daze enemies when destructed.... removed. They used to be instant casts, with the exception of blast and shredder gyro (so: the offensive ones)... cast times were added. And so on.

 

People hate fighting AI builds and will complain about them until they are nerfed into inviability. I personally want to avoid this scenario for my main.

 

About plaguedoctor: When it comes to flavour, plaguedoctors are basically a dual profession of engineer and necromancer. It can get approached from both directions, by either mixing necromancer themes into the engineer core (diseases, poisons, death, etc.) or by adding engineer themes to necromancer core (concoctions, gasmasks, etc.).

 

I personally prefer to use engineer as the core and add necromancer themes to it. For me, plaguedoctors are first and foremost people of modern science and medicine, not some magic users who are using the dead bodies of people who died from the plague as their minions.

 

I even thought of a good backstory for this profession, which would tie it nicely into Cantha. 

Wait, plague doctors are based on science now? Lol

[Dadnir.5038]

On 7/12/2021 at 8:32 PM, artharon.9276 said:

everything I read what OP wrote here less believable than this. 

And even if they resurrect monk, it goes to guardian. 

Eod leaks for those interested (spoilers) : Guildwars2 (reddit.com)

 

These leaks just feel... wrong.

- I'll admit that the story thing and mastery felt possible.

- The raid thing feel all over the place. The Zu Helzer ruin are deep within ecchovald forest and he talk about aquatic creature and Kanaxai which is a GW1 boss that was found deep within the jade sea. At this point I told myself: "Ok maybe they got a sample of many raid wings."

- Then the specializations... lol.

1. Warrior 3 weaponsets  on 2s CD with a focus on healing (this isn't realist since with 3 weaponsets healing is probably the last thing a warrior will do),
2. Guardian with the equivalent of shattered aegis but OP (seriously?),
3. Nobody played the revenant with OP amount of stealth (lol again),
4. Ranger with 3 pets at once but work very well (Yeah sure...),
5. Thief healing by hiting it's allies "making healing power/precision/ferocity" a thing (totally irrealist, ANet would probably have to remake the game from the ground to be able to implement such thing),
6. Necro spreading even more conditions and being OP (felt so much like pur salt being thrown that it was hillarious),
7. lastly mesmer's spec but totally different from what the image ANet leaked intentionally represent...

[artharon.9276]

50 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

These leaks just feel... wrong.

- I'll admit that the story thing and mastery felt possible.

- The raid thing feel all over the place. The Zu Helzer ruin are deep within ecchovald forest and he talk about aquatic creature and Kanaxai which is a GW1 boss that was found deep within the jade sea. At this point I told myself: "Ok maybe they got a sample of many raid wings."

- Then the specializations... lol.

1. Warrior 3 weaponsets  on 2s CD with a focus on healing (this isn't realist since with 3 weaponsets healing is probably the last thing a warrior will do),
2. Guardian with the equivalent of shattered aegis but OP (seriously?),
3. Nobody played the revenant with OP amount of stealth (lol again),
4. Ranger with 3 pets at once but work very well (Yeah sure...),
5. Thief healing by hiting it's allies "making healing power/precision/ferocity" a thing (totally irrealist, ANet would probably have to remake the game from the ground to be able to implement such thing),
6. Necro spreading even more conditions and being OP (felt so much like pur salt being thrown that it was hillarious),
7. lastly mesmer's spec but totally different from what the image ANet leaked intentionally represent...

 

as much as I didn't like the suggested way for thieves to heal, I don't think it would require to remake the entire game. if they finally bring ally targeted mechanics, this may make the game very interesting.

(and also means they admit having no rock paper scissors design's failed)

 

btw I still dream to have a warrior espec that has proper pet soldiers to carry banners etc. or something actually worked on with interesting ideas and nice visuals. or finally having a machine gun to my ranger. I'm afraid this leak is too boring to be fake. pls tell me it's fake lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

13 minutes ago, artharon.9276 said:

as much as I didn't like the suggested way for thieves to heal, I don't think it would require to remake the entire game. if they finally bring ally targeted mechanics, this may make the game very interesting.

(and also means they admit having no rock paper scissors design's failed)

 

btw I still dream to have a warrior espec that has proper pet soldiers to carry banners etc. or something actually worked on with interesting ideas and nice visuals. or finally having a machine gun to my ranger. I'm afraid this leak is too boring to be fake. pls tell me it's fake lol

 

Granted that it suggest that the thief's heal will crit, that's 100% fake. Also, again, the mesmer's picture preview from ANet suggest something totally different from what these "leaks" suggest. I know that ANet never learn but guardian getting aegis to work even more dangerously than spellbreaker's main mechanism is totally ridiculous... etc.

 

From my point of view, these "leaks" are merely wishful thinking. I might be wrong, obviously, but if it's the case I'll be extremly disappointed.

[MrForz.1953]

27 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

From my point of view, these "leaks" are merely wishful thinking. I might be wrong, obviously, but if it's the case I'll be extremly disappointed.

 

They are. I witnessed someone suggesting Celestial Envoy in this very forum a while ago and then like two weeks later it's part of that false leak.

[Panda.1967]

On 7/12/2021 at 10:49 AM, MrForz.1953 said:

Toss aside that it's not even Canthan themed

Honestly you can toss the idea that every elite spec for EoD must be Canthan themed out the window right now... You need only look back at the elite specs we already got to see that the theme of the region has no solid impact on what we'll be getting... in Heart of Thorns the only specs that we got that were themed to the region were Druid, Berserker, and Dragonhunter. Reaper, Chronomancer, Tempest, Daredevil, and Scrapper were all generic elite specs with zero regional influence, and Herald is of Elonian influence. Path of Fire did bring more Elonian influenced elite specs than generic but again, not all of them were. The Renegade and the Holosmith are as far from Elonian as you can possibly get with Path of Fire elite specs and the Deadeye is yet again another generic. Renegade is an Ascalon inspired elite spec, and lets be honest here Holosmith is straight up Asura themed... They aim for regional appropriate themes where they can, but where they can't they go with something generic or racially themed. Honestly, you will be hard pressed to find any sort of Canthan themed design for an enegineer spec, so engineer is practically guaranteed to get yet another generic or racial themed elite spec

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

Honestly you can toss the idea that every elite spec for EoD must be Canthan themed out the window right now... You need only look back at the elite specs we already got to see that the theme of the region has no solid impact on what we'll be getting... in Heart of Thorns the only specs that we got that were themed to the region were Druid, Berserker, and Dragonhunter. Reaper, Chronomancer, Tempest, Daredevil, and Scrapper were all generic elite specs with zero regional influence, and Herald is of Elonian influence. Path of Fire did bring more Elonian influenced elite specs than generic but again, not all of them were. The Renegade and the Holosmith are as far from Elonian as you can possibly get with Path of Fire elite specs and the Deadeye is yet again another generic. Renegade is an Ascalon inspired elite spec, and lets be honest here Holosmith is straight up Asura themed... They aim for regional appropriate themes where they can, but where they can't they go with something generic or racially themed. Honestly, you will be hard pressed to find any sort of Canthan themed design for an enegineer spec, so engineer is practically guaranteed to get yet another generic or racial themed elite spec

Tbh, Daredevil does have some connection to the Hylek tribes on Maguuma and how they utiolize stealth etc like thieves. Strong physical fighters with evasive fighting styles. And I think Scrapper is a mix of charr scrapper culture brought into Engineers who needed to built just about anything to survive the jungle. If anything Berserker has less ties to HoT (primal burning rage, jungle woodcutter aside) than those. Tempest and Reaper are on the mark though. As for Core Rev, probably ties into Rytlcok returning from the mists in Maguuma and Herald being a precursor to Aurene being born in the jungle/exalted city.

 

If anything id' like to see more "villainous" iterations of the new specs, than affiliated with Cantha (or both if they can). Where instead of some form of spec which aims to honor a hero, tame a power, control something etc, it let's the user be consumed by it, corrupt their nature or allow them to be in the darker side of what they represent. Basically stuff like a demonslayer warrior, a sinful guardian, a crazy engineer, a murderous mesmer etc.

[Kodama.6453]

16 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

Wait, plague doctors are based on science now? Lol

What do you think they are based on? Magic?

You realise that plague doctors actually have been a thing in history, right? That these were physicians who were hired to treat people during the bubonic plague epidemic? That their iconic mask has been a simple respirator?

 

I also see plague doctors represented way more as users of alchemy and medical practices, etc. So yeah, I see them as scientists in first and don't really see much connection to magic in them.

[Kodama.6453]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:50 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Tbh, Daredevil does have some connection to the Hylek tribes on Maguuma and how they utiolize stealth etc like thieves. Strong physical fighters with evasive fighting styles. And I think Scrapper is a mix of charr scrapper culture brought into Engineers who needed to built just about anything to survive the jungle. If anything Berserker has less ties to HoT (primal burning rage, jungle woodcutter aside) than those. Tempest and Reaper are on the mark though. As for Core Rev, probably ties into Rytlcok returning from the mists in Maguuma and Herald being a precursor to Aurene being born in the jungle/exalted city.

 

If anything id' like to see more "villainous" iterations of the new specs, than affiliated with Cantha (or both if they can). Where instead of some form of spec which aims to honor a hero, tame a power, control something etc, it let's the user be consumed by it, corrupt their nature or allow them to be in the darker side of what they represent. Basically stuff like a demonslayer warrior, a sinful guardian, a crazy engineer, a murderous mesmer etc.

Plaguedoctor for engineer, using chemical warfare with poison gases, acids, etc.

Sounds pretty evil to me, >:)

 

Plaguedoctor being a reference for the plague in Cantha, which got researched by the Am Fah to weaponize it. So this caste of plaguedoctors are alchemists which are using their alchemical knowledge for dirty fighting. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Plaguedoctor for engineer, using chemical warfare with poison gases, acids, etc.

Sounds pretty evil to me, >:)

 

Plaguedoctor being a reference for the plague in Cantha, which got researched by the Am Fan to weaponize it. So this caste of plaguedoctors are alchemists which are using their alchemical knowledge for dirty fighting. 

I'm onboard your idea!

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, having looked through the "leak" - I'm very sceptical. Some of the things mentioned in it are things that would probably require going deeper into the systems than I think they'd really want to for an elite specialisation. Not to mention that the whole "planned release date is earlier than people think" statement hasn't exactly aged well.

 

We'll see in a week and a half.

 

22 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

What do you think they are based on? Magic?

You realise that plague doctors actually have been a thing in history, right? That these were physicians who were hired to treat people during the bubonic plague epidemic? That their iconic mask has been a simple respirator?

 

I also see plague doctors represented way more as users of alchemy and medical practices, etc. So yeah, I see them as scientists in first and don't really see much connection to magic in them.

It's not really magic, but the principles they were working off back then weren't really founded in the scientific method either. 'Technology' is probably the most accurate way of putting it - it's not magic, and it probably provided some protection, but stuffing the beak with sweet-smelling herbs probably didn't have the desired effect except through coincidence.

[Kodama.6453]

8 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yeah, having looked through the "leak" - I'm very sceptical. Some of the things mentioned in it are things that would probably require going deeper into the systems than I think they'd really want to for an elite specialisation. Not to mention that the whole "planned release date is earlier than people think" statement hasn't exactly aged well.

 

We'll see in a week and a half.

 

It's not really magic, but the principles they were working off back then weren't really founded in the scientific method either. 'Technology' is probably the most accurate way of putting it - it's not magic, and it probably provided some protection, but stuffing the beak with sweet-smelling herbs probably didn't have the desired effect except through coincidence.

I mean, yeah, scientifically, alot of bogus happened back then. They also were practicing that whole doctrine of the four juices, etc.

 

Technology might be a better term to go by, you are right. My point mostly was that I think plaguedoctors are thematically closer to the engineer (the class which actually uses medical equipment like bandages, syringes, etc.) than to the necromancer.

 

I think people just tend to associate the term plaguedoctor with necromancers simply because of the name, since it includes plague, which makes them think of necromancers.